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 p5freak wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The void dragon looks kind of OP. Max 3 damage per phase and it has character protection. Is the nocrodermis on all ctans? If that is the case its gonna be hard not to take at least 1 in your list.

All have necrodermis but no confirmation he's a character at present.

Are Ctan characters right now?

Ctans were characters in 8th, and they still are in 9th. Unless the codex changes it.

Yes. Ain't it funny coincidence this comes with new codex.


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 Bosskelot wrote:
People saying the ability is worthless on multiwound models are also exposing their balls and inability to understand how 40k works.

It doesn't matter if old-RP meant a Destroyer could get back up on one 5+ if you were never making that dice roll in the first place. Actively getting chances to resurrect models after attacks still increases the survivability of units to a really high degree because every saved ones leads to more models subsequent units have to chew through which also leads to more RP rolls.

Is it as strong as a traditional FNP? Of course not, but to call it worse than the 8th edition rule is pure comedy.

The times you weren't rolling in 8e are generally the times you won't be rolling in 9e either. When you are rolling in 9e are when you were most likely rolling for 8e.

The rule as is isn't really improvement. Sidestep and still forgeatable rule. 8e only times I really rolled it was for lychguard and destroyers. Now it's useless for those and 1w infantry still gets no big improvement(maybe 4-5 gets back before unit is dead)


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 Mixzremixzd wrote:
That's why I said "but let's not blow this outta proportion without seeing if those units have been hit with a big RP tax.".

Pitchforks and complain after you have the relevant information, not before.

They always have been. Unlikely GW will drop necron prices with new codex after making fuss about how they increased points to reduce model count...

Question then for those concerned cause I'm interested. Assuming Lychguard stay at 30ppm, Praetorians at 23 and Skorpekhs at 40, would you consider it too expensive based "solely" on the new RP?

Are you hoping that these units go down in cost or are you worried that GW would mark them up?

If it goes up I groan. RP won't help all that much if any and they are already expensive.

Especially skorpek's would be nerfed with price hike. RP is equally non-existant rule for them 8e or 9e so price hike is just nerf.

Praetorians ditto. Only lychguard I could see actually benefit from RP with shields and cryptek for 4+ RP as they are tough enough single unit isn't most likely to remove.

Problem is price hike would criple warscythe variant unless gw finally abandons idea equipment is equal price...

All going to come down to combos and synergy.

+1 and a re-roll on Reanimation is a significant boost, no?

Until we’ve the Codex in hand, and a chance to digest it, people are jumping the gun somewhat.

I really think for me it depends on what the competing units look like in other armies; if there is a general trend to more expensive units in other factions (which I suspect might be the case? Certainly seems to be some noise that is what will happen with SM), broadly I'm fine with our units staying static or coming down only a smidge. My gut feel is that basic troops should stay at about the same and the currently more expensive units come down a touch (all relatively).

Yeah, we certainly are missing a lot of information. But really, what was Games workshop expecting when they previewed the rule on its own in such a way to begin with. I'd imagine from what I've been hearing they'll be pushing more context of how RP works to today to clarify it for people.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
All going to come down to combos and synergy.

+1 and a re-roll on Reanimation is a significant boost, no?

Until we’ve the Codex in hand, and a chance to digest it, people are jumping the gun somewhat.

Plus a few are jumping that RP is the only good element to necron units and are ignoring their potential to perform outside of reanimation chances. Which is a very one dimensional way to look at the army. Granted RP is one of the few major rules we are aware of at this stage, but we have to remember its not the only rule in the book. Necron units do more than just die and come back to life.


Plus don't forget most armies are getting point increases, GW has been very open that 9th edition is them reigning in some of the army size elements for a 2K game (since that's the default standard many aim for). Basically aiming to reduce model load a bit. It's part of a balancing act around 2K as that's what the market seems to gravitate toward in general; GW has to balance their desire to sell models; Gamers desire to collect models with peoples desire to build new armies and get to that 2K point without being overwhelmed.


So yes expect point increases, but remember that that goes alongside other armies also getting them steadily through 9th edition.
Hopefully we'll get one or two more leaks in the run up which can give people something else to sink their teeth into besides RP

Darsath wrote:
Yeah, we certainly are missing a lot of information. But really, what was Games workshop expecting when they previewed the rule on its own in such a way to begin with. I'd imagine from what I've been hearing they'll be pushing more context of how RP works to today to clarify it for people.

Uuh this is standard for GW. They never reveal everything at once


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 Overread wrote:

Plus don't forget most armies are getting point increases, GW has been very open that 9th edition is them reigning in some of the army size elements for a 2K game (since that's the default standard many aim for). Basically aiming to reduce model load a bit. It's part of a balancing act around 2K as that's what the market seems to gravitate toward in general; GW has to balance their desire to sell models; Gamers desire to collect models with peoples desire to build new armies and get to that 2K point without being overwhelmed.


So yes expect point increases, but remember that that goes alongside other armies also getting them steadily through 9th edition.
Hopefully we'll get one or two more leaks in the run up which can give people something else to sink their teeth into besides RP

We got point increases. Don't expect more just for sake of point increases.

Also while hoping not the case...last time we got point increases start of edition the points started going DOWN from first codex onward.

I think we need the Marine codex to get a feel on where points are meant to be in 9th.

I'd be tempted to say Lychguard could go up a couple of points - but if Bladeguard are standing right there at 35 this seems like a definite no.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Question then for those concerned cause I'm interested. Assuming Lychguard stay at 30ppm, Praetorians at 23 and Skorpekhs at 40, would you consider it too expensive based "solely" on the new RP?

Are you hoping that these units go down in cost or are you worried that GW would mark them up?

Praetorians won't stay at their currenct cost since they had heavy damage output enhancements

For me, my core choices are always going to be Warriors and Immortals.

With Immortals going back to T5, they’re getting a decent whack of extra resilience against most small arms fire, such as Bolters and other S4 goodies, and to a lesser degree against S5.

Add in RP, and their 3+ save, and they become more difficult to get off the board.

We’ll also need to consider our own damage output in a turn, and that will of course fluctuate from army to army, based on what the player has included.

Let’s look at the Monolith, and arm it with Death Rays.



That.....that’s a lot of damage potential. Decent strength, fair number of shots, solid AP and, crucially, reliable Damage. With a fair wind and only slightly jammy dice, there’s not a great many vehicles that can soak enough to stay on the board.

And reliable Damage on our heavy weapons does kind of look to be the norm, when we look at the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer.



3D3 damage is quite nice - especially if we can take that bugger in squadrons (I don’t recall seeing confirmation either way, but may simply have missed it).

So, from admittedly restricted amounts of info, it looks like we’ll be quite well placed to be a frustrating foe. Anything we aim at is in for a rough time, and RP gives us a leg up in terms of attrition, should our big guns fluff it in a given turn.

I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.

That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.

This will also help out destroyers, etc.

Furthermore, as mentioned by a few, the more complex setup for RP leaves them tons of knobs to address its relative power. Adding dice to the pool, being able to store models for a future set of RP dice pool generation, etc.

This RP is, quite frankly, brilliant. It makes RP what it kind of is: FNP...yet preserves the theme extremely well.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For me, my core choices are always going to be Warriors and Immortals.

With Immortals going back to T5, they’re getting a decent whack of extra resilience against most small arms fire, such as Bolters and other S4 goodies, and to a lesser degree against S5.

Add in RP, and their 3+ save, and they become more difficult to get off the board.

We’ll also need to consider our own damage output in a turn, and that will of course fluctuate from army to army, based on what the player has included.

Let’s look at the Monolith, and arm it with Death Rays.



That.....that’s a lot of damage potential. Decent strength, fair number of shots, solid AP and, crucially, reliable Damage. With a fair wind and only slightly jammy dice, there’s not a great many vehicles that can soak enough to stay on the board.

And reliable Damage on our heavy weapons does kind of look to be the norm, when we look at the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer.



3D3 damage is quite nice - especially if we can take that bugger in squadrons (I don’t recall seeing confirmation either way, but may simply have missed it).

So, from admittedly restricted amounts of info, it looks like we’ll be quite well placed to be a frustrating foe. Anything we aim at is in for a rough time, and RP gives us a leg up in terms of attrition, should our big guns fluff it in a given turn.

3 heavy destroyers with a lord is over 300 points, it's landing 12 wounds on most vehicles without an invuln which is nice but that's a hefty investment compared to the 9th ed bad boys of the eradicators who almost double that almost with character support for equal points in metla range or beat it by 2 outside of melta.

Breaking it down into clear steps is also a nice move toward GW perhaps taking more attention to abilities. I think 8th edition started to show to them that even when they had an ability that was clearly set out; the lack of specific ordered wording in the ability or other areas of the game; resulted in confusion from players because bits were assumed or missing from stages.

Or its a case like damage rolls that everyone rolls them together which works 99.9% of the time then for one ability it breaks because that ability needed you to roll one at a time not all at once.


So hopefully it might be a positive sign of an attitude change from GW toward how they write rules.

We can also use it to hide from enemy units.

Imagine. You’ve done your best to get out of LoS. But, you got it very slightly wrong, and the enemy can indeed draw a bead on you.

Simply choose the models in LoS to be your casualties.

Then, if they do reanimate, place them somewhere else, out of LoS of other enemy units.

Yes, it is situational, and may not apply to every game - but it remains a hidden perk we can play with.

I can't wait for the day that I can sneak into objective range when an opponent carelessly shoots a unit of warriors near one!

Dudeface wrote:


3 heavy destroyers with a lord is over 300 points, it's landing 12 wounds on most vehicles without an invuln which is nice but that's a hefty investment compared to the 9th ed bad boys of the eradicators who almost double that almost with character support for equal points in metla range or beat it by 2 outside of melta.

Are they 300 points though? We simply do not know that at this time, because we’re getting an entirely new Codex in a few days.

Nor do we know what we might get to spend our CPs on.

You’re also working solely on averages, which is something I always disagree with. Instead, look at the range of possible outcomes. Those three Heavy Destroyers, maxing out, have the potential to drop an Imperial Knight in a single fusillade.

Then there’s supporting fire. If these guys can do the legwork (hover platform work?), then we still have options to make whatever it is we want dead, dead. And every unit we can annihilate is one less to shoot back.

Bitharne wrote:
I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.

That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.

Uuuuh based on....what?

Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.

Its entirely possible that Rites or ResOrbs may allow us to attempt to reanimate prior slain models. We just dont know yet.

tneva82 wrote:

Bitharne wrote:
I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.

That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.

Uuuuh based on....what?

Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.

Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.

One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.

That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Bitharne wrote:
I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.

That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.

Uuuuh based on....what?

Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.

Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.

One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.

That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.

Actually the Reanimator still has to survive and remain with 9" of the unit in order for it to benefit from the +1

Currently, at least. Obviously the codex wording could be different

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Bitharne wrote:
I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.

That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.

Uuuuh based on....what?

Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.

Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.

One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.

That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.

As someone suggested before, we just need the Reanimator to go down in points and the ability to be taken in squadrons. Then they could honestly be a very valuable/usable supporting unit.

Squadrons, or at least 1-3 etc per slot I agree with. That way we should be able to field a few, and really brace for first or second turn carnage.

We may also bank on our opponents aiming to dismantle our buff providers ASAP. This means we can, potentially, channel their early shooting and combat phases to our advantage.

That first turn out the way, it’s on us to be smart about what we’re targeting in the enemy turn. Because once we swing attrition our way, our opponents may well seriously struggle.

The reanimators core issue is that it has a potentially powerful rule that makes it an almost nightmare to properly balance and point accurately. It's funny in that in making this new RP rule they've solved that issue that used to plague RP as a rule, only to make a specific unit that suffers the same sort of problem.

With its terrible statline the only thing that really makes sense is if the Nanoscarab Beam rule is actually an aura, rather than a targeted ability, because otherwise I have no idea how to make the unit work. I suppose with sufficient obscuring cover you can weather turn 1 shooting (if you didn't get first turn) without the RP buff it provides and so maybe that's the conditions it's been playtested and designed with in mind.

I'm hoping that "Living Metal" will allow multi-wound Necrons to always be considered "Reanimating" so that even after it fails on RP roll it can still roll next attack too.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Bitharne wrote:
I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.

That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.

Uuuuh based on....what?

Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.

Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.

One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.

That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.

Unless rules change a) it needs to stay alive b) it's useless on turn 1 if opponent goes first. Also you need to know in advance which unit to buff which hurts. Enemy has following options to bybass the buff:

a) simply wipe out unit in one go. Plenty of units that can still do that. No RP
b) kill the reanimator. It's super soft target.
c) simply shoot another unit. There's unit of warrior buffed? Shoot at the other one. Rarely opponent can do neither a nor b AND there's unit that just needs to be killed rather than the other.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
I'm hoping that "Living Metal" will allow multi-wound Necrons to always be considered "Reanimating" so that even after it fails on RP roll it can still roll next attack too.

I would expect something more akin to the various healer rules in other codexes:

If there is a wounded model in this unit, it recovers X wounds, otherwise you can return one destroyed model to the unit with X wounds.

X could be 1. Could be d3. Could be up to 3.

 Bosskelot wrote:
The reanimators core issue is that it has a potentially powerful rule that makes it an almost nightmare to properly balance and point accurately. It's funny in that in making this new RP rule they've solved that issue that used to plague RP as a rule, only to make a specific unit that suffers the same sort of problem.

With its terrible statline the only thing that really makes sense is if the Nanoscarab Beam rule is actually an aura, rather than a targeted ability, because otherwise I have no idea how to make the unit work. I suppose with sufficient obscuring cover you can weather turn 1 shooting (if you didn't get first turn) without the RP buff it provides and so maybe that's the conditions it's been playtested and designed with in mind.

Give it character protection.

Tyel wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
The reanimators core issue is that it has a potentially powerful rule that makes it an almost nightmare to properly balance and point accurately. It's funny in that in making this new RP rule they've solved that issue that used to plague RP as a rule, only to make a specific unit that suffers the same sort of problem.

With its terrible statline the only thing that really makes sense is if the Nanoscarab Beam rule is actually an aura, rather than a targeted ability, because otherwise I have no idea how to make the unit work. I suppose with sufficient obscuring cover you can weather turn 1 shooting (if you didn't get first turn) without the RP buff it provides and so maybe that's the conditions it's been playtested and designed with in mind.

Give it character protection.

This and lower it's points to like 80.

Its like 2 stories tall... dont think character protection works right.
Ide say give it living metal and QS or a wound-gate mechanic liek necrodermis