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Having seen the Silent Kings full data sheet I still don't think he's that good.

Top 5?
Void Dragon/Nightbringer depending on mood - they're just death to vehicles/non-vehicles
Doomstalker - cheaper than a DDA for the same gun, 4++ save
Crypteks - build your own, they have options but the classic heals units which is good
Warrior/Immortals - look, big blocks that get back up pretty often will help you on the obj. game
The Silent King - 450 Supreme Commander that adds +3CP, doesn't break dynasties and is just a flat out monster to deal with.

Hot to build -
You probably want a core of 20-40+ infantry (Warriors/Immortals) for holding objectives, backed up with Crypteks and Overlords. Grab a Doomstalker or two while you're at it After that pick your theme, there is a lot of choice available and only 1 real dud unit (the Reanimator) that's not in the LoW slots.

feth me sideways

Warriors £29
Skorpekhs £34.5
Hexmark £21
Giant - useful for 40k lootin' £120

Warriors are more than I thought they'd be especially as there are only 10 in a box - Skorpekh a bit more too honestly.

Hexmark is actually a touch cheaper for a character type model.

All are within GW's general boundaries, if on the higher end. Giant is very much breaching the market being the highest priced model GW now makes.

Sometimes GW seems to be a creature of two heads; one sane and able to balance rules and have fair sounding prices. Another more wild with overpowered stuff and much more keen to price higher.




Something tells me Indomitus stuff on ebay is going to start selling at record speed now!

 Overread wrote:
Warriors are more than I thought they'd be especially as there are only 10 in a box - Skorpekh a bit more too honestly.

Hexmark is actually a touch cheaper for a character type model.

All are within GW's general boundaries, if on the higher end. Giant is very much breaching the market being the highest priced model GW now makes.

Sometimes GW seems to be a creature of two heads; one sane and able to balance rules and have fair sounding prices. Another more wild with overpowered stuff and much more keen to price higher.




Something tells me Indomitus stuff on ebay is going to start selling at record speed now!

Well, it resigns me to running a lot of assault intercessors and outriders if I expand the marines, there is no point buying them separately basically. Unless you only want the Skorpekhs, but then ebays probably got your back there.

I'm seeing a pretty powerful synergy here. The Szarekhan relic, if I'm reading right, boosts command protocols to 9" over 6, and allows those units to benefit from both doctrines on all protocols.

Stack that with Thrall of the Silent King WL trait and he'll have a 12" aura of dual protocols. If you have Conquering Tyrant on that goes to 15", which might as well be your whole army if the Overlord is on a barge

You could even give the Szarekhan warlord trait to another character to get the 4 doctrines with a doubled up one.

Go with the base core of troops, I'd throw in a technomancer with the Canoptek Control Node and Fail Safe Overcharger to baby sit a trio of spyders or a couple Doomstalkers

Make the second Cryptek a Psychomancer with the Hyper Material Ablator to give units cover and for the crypteks ability to cancel an enemy action/overwatch

If those Spyders all had Gloom Prisms thats 3 attempts to deny psychic powers, 4 is you use the Szarekhan strat

I also like the idea of a full unit of Ophydian Destroyers with a Hexmark destroyer to take/clear a backfield objective. The Hexmark clears chaff/gives protocols, the Ophydian charge in and kill whatever they touch

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I’m well behind on the new info, and also pretty lazy.....

Would any current Necron player like to weigh in with their top 5 units based on the new info, and any comments on how you might rearrange your army?

Hard to say with real precision at this stage, but...

1- Nightbringer looks completely crazy. If you're going to bring a Big Expensive Thing, he's top of the pile. But all of the named shards have tricks.
2- Tentative and subject to change, but: Warriors feel like they edge out Immortals in terms of support and shenanigans, and for Immortals gauss swung over tesla. Tesla got adjusted and costs more, and you have to pay for the privilege. Too much
3- Crypteks- technomancer or chronomancer, as they have a lot of (and best) toys. Also access to (or innate) personal mobility
4- Catacomb Command Barge Warlord. Lots of buffs to this unit- more wounds (but still gets look out sir), more attacks, quantum shield gives invulnerable save, can't be wounded on 1-3 by anything.
5- shockingly, tomb spyders. They're still relatively squishy, but they're nasty in CC now. Have a Technomancer to support them, however.

bonus 6- Praetorians got a lot of buffs, particularly rods. But they're not <dynasty> or Core, and while that makes sense, it matters.

Army depends heavily on Dynasty, and what they're good at. Some solid close combat will help any army though, and thankfully there are some good options for that. (Skorpekhs and Wraiths probably have priority. Ophydians look like they're innately runners-up, for overlapping both but not being as good as either). Lychguard are surprisingly solid, with more attacks and shields get the storm shield rules: 4++ and +1 to saves, but they're still walking everywhere.

AT (or anti-heavy infantry which is just as important and overlaps) needs to be in the list. Lot of good choices in HS, and also the Triarch Stalker- the heat ray snuck in the melta and flamer changes.

The Doomstalker doesn't seem that good to me considering you can't fire its best weapon profile if you move.
I guess with 48" range you can just plant it and hope what you want to shoot is in line of sight.
But I kinda hate models that get heavily penalised for moving.

 dan2026 wrote:
The Doomstalker doesn't seem that good to me considering you can't fire its best weapon profile if you move.
I guess with 48" range you can just plant it and hope what you want to shoot is in line of sight.
But I kinda hate models that get heavily penalised for moving.

Given they're only 26 quid, I might get two, and alternate one moving and the other staying still in my turns to move up the board.

Equally though, I'm thinking ditch them entirely in exchange for the standard 2DDAs and a squad of Destroyers. Need to actually sit and plan a couple lists after I have the book and read the BRB

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I’m well behind on the new info, and also pretty lazy.....

Would any current Necron player like to weigh in with their top 5 units based on the new info, and any comments on how you might rearrange your army?

This is only based on opinion and comparisons, not playtesting with the units yet. That said, in no particular order:
1. Immortals - I think Warriors are a trap choice, as they're not as reliable as Gauss Immortals, and with their buffs they'll be a much easier to include Core unit to fill troops choices.
2. Deathmarks - Looks like buffing characters are here to stay for the long term, and at 18 points per model, these things are great for killing castle-style lists with their new weapons, 2 + Ballistic Skill and Toughness 5.
3. Canoptek Spyders - No one expected this unit to be good, but really, they're actually quite a pain to push at 6 Wounds and Toughness 6 for only 60 points. Killy with 5 attacks at Strength 8 Damage 2. Main issue is the 4+ WS and BS, but they can take support items on top of all this. Something to watch out for for sure (but why do they have Reanimation Protocols will remain a mystery to me)
4. Lychguard - New shield changes on them give a 2+ save and 4+ invuln so straight buff, plus now 3 attacks. They're just solid for holding the line
5. Nightbringer - The new C'tan are the hardest to judge. They look especially nasty on paper, but remember that at 350 points, they're going to struggle to make up those points reliably. However, with the move to bigger, more elite infantry, the Nightbringer is likely the exception here. Ignoring Invulns, Feel No Pain, 6 Attacks at Strength 14 and D6 damage he's something no one wants to face in combat. On top of that, he has one of the best unique C'tan powers.

On the Doomstalker - feel the weirder problem is only having 24" range on the low power. So if you are unduly cagey, and want to move turn 1, there is a risk you are not only on the weaker bracket, but can't shoot what you would want to shoot at anyway.

Also find it funny GW went on a whole journey on the Sisters of Battle Exorcist (people don't like D6 shot weapons because they are so random, what is this?) and well... here we are.

But at the same time - 140 points for D6 S10, AP-5, D6 damage shots seems quite reasonable, and a 4++ on 12 wounds is surprisingly solid.

If you were going for an assault-pressure army they maybe risk being a bit isolated - but otherwise I think they are sufficiently cheap you take 3 and don't really worry about it.

The overwatch thing is probably more cute than potent - but when you melt a charging HQ people are going to be sad.

Question, do the Obeisance Generators that the Silent King has override units that fight first in the fight phase?

Wondering if I can take a spare Skorpekh and build a Hexmark out of him. Should be *possible* but might be ugly.

As for a top five? Man, I don't KNOW. Everythng but the Reanimator looks so GOOD. Internal balance, but interesting, you know?

That said? I'll take a stab at what jumped out at me.

#1 - WARRIORS
The more the merrier, and I'm feeling 60 in a 2K rumble. Objective Secured footsloggers with durability is how you win in 9th and, boy howdy, do Warriors have it.

#2 - SPYDERS
Just a rock-solid Dreadnought-type unit that can be fat-n-happy in melee to tie down opponents, best-used as a bully unit … facing a non-melee unit in the fight phase, it'll take 1, maybe 2, wounds a turn, but it gets 1 BACK a turn, so you can stay parked there for as long as you want. It can also break tougher units by itself and, of course, don't forget that, if they fall back, you have the Canoptek strat to heroicly intervene. Just USEFUL.

#3 - SCARABS
I know, I know, but wounds for less than 4 pts a model, teensy size, and high speed gives you a unit that can flit around, handle backrow objectives, perform actions, and give vehicles the Bad Touch (tm) . They also benefit from a handy strat AND team up well with Spyders. Just great utility models.

#4 - DEATHMARKS

The best snipers in the game? May be! Not only do they get to deepstrike but they force your opponent to doublethink … do you REALLY want to give these badboys free shooting in YOUR turn, knowing that they can tap again in their own? Weapons strong enough to give characters pause that are perfectly fine gunning down elite troopers as well, dominating LOS in huge corridors. Unlike most snipers, they're not even fragile, with T5, a 3+ save in cover, and, of course, the chance of getting back up. Love 'em.

#5 - FLAYED ONES

Controversial pick? Oh yes, but, with the force as a whole being so good at chonking marines, you need to keep something around for hordes, and Flayed Ones do that like nothing else in the list. The morale effects are stronger than you think, and even small units can rack up a bodycount. They're also another feather in the "Cheap infantry units that can do actions" cap, with a side-order of deepstrike. How can you not love these guys?

Again, I'm an outlier, but these are some of wha jumped up at me. There's more (so much more!0 but I'm *really* looking forward to giving it all a try.

Im personally liking Tomb Blades being able to move, advance and still fire with their strat. Thats a humongeous chunk of table traversed and rapid firing Mephrit Gauss Blasters

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Question, do the Obeisance Generators that the Silent King has override units that fight first in the fight phase?

The Obesiance Generators make it so enemies aren't 'eligible' to fight, so effectively yes it overrides those abilities.

Wakshaani wrote:
Wondering if I can take a spare Skorpekh and build a Hexmark out of him. Should be *possible* but might be ugly.

I was thinking the body of a Ghar battle suit from Beyond the gates of Antares, six old Gauss flayers with the rod/barrel removed, and a deathmark head... Three Ghar battle suits are £20, I've got the rest as spares. Bargain. I'm planning on swapping all my old warriors to the new flayers and blasters anyway, so it works out pretty well!

Maybe! I know I can use a spare Skorpekh Lord for it if all else fails. Already has the body and the arms, more or less. Just stickin' on more form there...

Anyone know whether the new warrior kit is just the same warriors as in indomitus put into its own box, or actually a new multi-part kit?

yukishiro1 wrote:
Anyone know whether the new warrior kit is just the same warriors as in indomitus put into its own box, or actually a new multi-part kit?

Not confirmed for certain but "previously only available in the Indomitus box and the various Starter Sets, will soon be released on their own to bolster your ranks of implacable murder androids" suggests the existing ones.

If it was a new kit GW would have said already to help hype it up. That said the current kit is nice - you get head swaps and weapon options.

Still as of now its cheaper to get on ebay and grab them new on the sprue from Indomitus than from GW direct so I predict both those new necorn kits will sell poorly right now .

 Sim-Life wrote:
Having seen the Silent Kings full data sheet I still don't think he's that good.

Remains to be seen. His cost is significant and his best weapons disappear with his first 10 wounds...
He does have a lot of abilities...In Melee he hits like a truck.
Full rerolls to hit in shooting and to wound in melee for core and praetorians.

I feel like at 2000 points he just isn't viable. In larger games he can do really well I think. Or he could do well I just don't see how.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I’m well behind on the new info, and also pretty lazy.....

Would any current Necron player like to weigh in with their top 5 units based on the new info, and any comments on how you might rearrange your army?

Canoptek doomstalker looks a solid choice at HS
Nightbringer is amazing in elites if you have the points
Warriors for troops for me
Deathmarks also look good for ranged elites
I like the Skorpekhs in fast attack too

Since everyone is doing a top 5 I will give mine.
#1 Canoptek Spider. 60 point murder beatstick and they just look so cool too...
#2 Praetorians - flat 2 damage in melee and shooting now at ap-3 (don't get protocols is their only real downside:( )
#3 Triarch Stalker - With new quantum shielding he will be sticking around - drop the 4++ save stratagem on him and buff your army for days.
#4 Monolith - 24 wounds 2+ t8? Lots of guns? Oh yeah...bonus shenanigans too.
#5 Doomstalker - 4++ you say? Yep - I'll take it.

What's the canoptek Doomstalker max unit size?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Since everyone is doing a top 5 I will give mine.
#1 Canoptek Spider. 60 point murder beatstick and they just look so cool too...
#2 Praetorians - flat 2 damage in melee and shooting now at ap-3 (don't get protocols is their only real downside:( )
#3 Triarch Stalker - With new quantum shielding he will be sticking around - drop the 4++ save stratagem on him and buff your army for days.
#4 Monolith - 24 wounds 2+ t8? Lots of guns? Oh yeah...bonus shenanigans too.
#5 Doomstalker - 4++ you say? Yep - I'll take it.

That monolith pick is a tough sell. They look awesome models but being locked into a LoW is rough.

punisher357 wrote:
What's the canoptek Doomstalker max unit size?

Sadly 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Since everyone is doing a top 5 I will give mine.
#1 Canoptek Spider. 60 point murder beatstick and they just look so cool too...
#2 Praetorians - flat 2 damage in melee and shooting now at ap-3 (don't get protocols is their only real downside:( )
#3 Triarch Stalker - With new quantum shielding he will be sticking around - drop the 4++ save stratagem on him and buff your army for days.
#4 Monolith - 24 wounds 2+ t8? Lots of guns? Oh yeah...bonus shenanigans too.
#5 Doomstalker - 4++ you say? Yep - I'll take it.

That monolith pick is a tough sell. They look awesome models but being locked into a LoW is rough.

Looks incredible. 3 CP is nothing IMO. It's not mandatory to include one or anything but lots of builds will center around the monolith I think.

 Xenomancers wrote:


Looks incredible. 3 CP is nothing IMO. It's not mandatory to include one or anything but lots of builds will center around the monolith I think.

One problem with the lith is that we actually have a bunch of strats that look useful now so the CP cost will be relevant, in addition it kinda looks fair for it's cost so it's not jumping out as an OP auto include at all but more of a build around. Which it should be and why it sucks that there is a cp tax. But maybe the biggest problem with it is that it lacks an invuln and is going to be eaten alive by space marine eradicators which I believe will be absolutely everywhere, I can't fathom a marine list that doesn't start with a dozen of them.

 Punisher wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Looks incredible. 3 CP is nothing IMO. It's not mandatory to include one or anything but lots of builds will center around the monolith I think.

One problem with the lith is that we actually have a bunch of strats that look useful now so the CP cost will be relevant, in addition it kinda looks fair for it's cost so it's not jumping out as an OP auto include at all but more of a build around. Which it should be and why it sucks that there is a cp tax. But maybe the biggest problem with it is that it lacks an invuln and is going to be eaten alive by space marine eradicators which I believe will be absolutely everywhere, I can't fathom a marine list that doesn't start with a dozen of them.

Eradicators are rough on them, but they're not even the only threat.
Lots of armies can take tons of multimeltas, meltaguns or equivalents, or have other anti-tank attacks, and can basically strip wounds off it at will.

You can pay through the nose for one and expect to see it burned down to nothing in two turns if you're lucky.
One of the worst 'improved' models (with a new kit, no less) in a long time.

Voss wrote:

You can pay through the nose for one and expect to see it burned down to nothing in two turns if you're lucky.
One of the worst 'improved' models (with a new kit, no less) in a long time.

Agreed. I just can't justify 3 CP on top of the already steep 360-380 points. Making it a LoW without the special snowflake rules that Primarch's and Knights have is a kick in the teeth that feels really unnecessary. Which is kind of my opinion on the entire codex, but I digress

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I’m well behind on the new info, and also pretty lazy.....

Would any current Necron player like to weigh in with their top 5 units based on the new info, and any comments on how you might rearrange your army?

1. Nightbringer/Void Dragon - Nightbringer is probably the single best unit in the Codex, and one of the best units in the game right now. The void dragon is not quite that level, but close.
2. CCB. The QS is a huge upgrade for this guy, the Overlord going up in base attacks, and the available artifacts now that you are not stuck taking the lightning field. It's speedy and perfect for ensuring you get secondaries, MWBD' or using the Orb.
3. Technomancer. The Technomancer just adds a ton of value and be tailored a lot of ways for your army. He is just brimming with options now. an A+ Support unit.
4. Doomstalker. Great base Stats, Great stragems, really good with the right support. Seems like a very solid unit.
5. Warriors/Gauss Immortals. Both of these are great now, and there is an actual choice between the two of them.

Runner up: The Psychomancer. I'm a huge fan of the way he can manipulate stuff like turning off OBSEC. I really enjoy playing with units like this.
Sleeper Unit: Flayed ones. I think these suckers are a sleeper. They are an absolute blender unit, and in Novokh seem very Strong.

As for rearranging my army, I think I'm pretty much starting at 1750 every game because I'm always including the NIghtbringer. It's just too good to pass up. There are honestly so many ways to play the army now though. I'm going to enjoy experimenting and playing with shooty, canoptek heavy, Melee heavy. All kinds of stuff.