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Martel732 wrote:
Make them rare like they should be.

THIS.

Considering just how many imperial worlds exist, there are wayy too many damn marines in 40k. If it was up to me, I'd sack all marine codexes and force all imperial players to either take guard or SoB, and leave all power armoured weirdos to elite slots. That would immediately make the game play much more closer to the fluff than what we are seeing.

However, given how popular spess mahrenes are, there is no chance this will ever happen.

tauist wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Make them rare like they should be.

THIS.

Considering just how many imperial worlds exist, there are wayy too many damn marines in 40k. If it was up to me, I'd sack all marine codexes and force all imperial players to either take guard or SoB, and leave all power armoured weirdos to elite slots. That would immediately make the game play much more closer to the fluff than what we are seeing.

However, given how popular spess mahrenes are, there is no chance this will ever happen.

Okey. But then because eldar are dieing out, and tau are a small xeno nations, I ask for 99% of all xeno players represent the real proportion of xeno to xeno army, and play tyranids. I want one tau player for 1000 xeno players and one eldar player for every 10000 xeno player. The numbers of necron players can't be set know, as we don't know how many have awakened. i think we could fix that by allowing xeno player to own a necron army, but only some could use them, depending on the continent. 3 days out of 7 could be US, 2 out of 7 could be europe and the rest could be split between the rest of the world, and other human colonies and space stations.

Hey! Karol made a joke! And a pretty dang good one at that. That's an exalt my boy!

Karol wrote:

tauist wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Make them rare like they should be.

THIS.

Considering just how many imperial worlds exist, there are wayy too many damn marines in 40k. If it was up to me, I'd sack all marine codexes and force all imperial players to either take guard or SoB, and leave all power armoured weirdos to elite slots. That would immediately make the game play much more closer to the fluff than what we are seeing.

However, given how popular spess mahrenes are, there is no chance this will ever happen.

Okey. But then because eldar are dieing out, and tau are a small xeno nations, I ask for 99% of all xeno players represent the real proportion of xeno to xeno army, and play tyranids. I want one tau player for 1000 xeno players and one eldar player for every 10000 xeno player. The numbers of necron players can't be set know, as we don't know how many have awakened. i think we could fix that by allowing xeno player to own a necron army, but only some could use them, depending on the continent. 3 days out of 7 could be US, 2 out of 7 could be europe and the rest could be split between the rest of the world, and other human colonies and space stations.

Point of order: There are a lot of individual Tyranid organisms, but very few Hive Fleets, which means in terms of quantity of individual intelligences there are probably fewer Tyranids in the galaxy than just about anything else.

Right, most xenos players should play orks, they are the most populous race in the galaxy after all.

Karol wrote:

tauist wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Make them rare like they should be.

THIS.

Considering just how many imperial worlds exist, there are wayy too many damn marines in 40k. If it was up to me, I'd sack all marine codexes and force all imperial players to either take guard or SoB, and leave all power armoured weirdos to elite slots. That would immediately make the game play much more closer to the fluff than what we are seeing.

However, given how popular spess mahrenes are, there is no chance this will ever happen.

Okey. But then because eldar are dieing out, and tau are a small xeno nations, I ask for 99% of all xeno players represent the real proportion of xeno to xeno army, and play tyranids. I want one tau player for 1000 xeno players and one eldar player for every 10000 xeno player. The numbers of necron players can't be set know, as we don't know how many have awakened. i think we could fix that by allowing xeno player to own a necron army, but only some could use them, depending on the continent. 3 days out of 7 could be US, 2 out of 7 could be europe and the rest could be split between the rest of the world, and other human colonies and space stations.

"Dying out" There are still WAY more Eldar than marines. Orders of magnitude more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Right, most xenos players should play orks, they are the most populous race in the galaxy after all.

Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Martel, I think you're failing to understand something: the table top isn't the lore. The number of marine armies isn't reflective of the number of Marines in the setting.

Just because you're bored of something doesn't make it boring either. But then again I'm speaking with a fair bit of bias since I'm working on Black Templar Primaris (some non-Primaris too, but mostly Primaris):


This hobby is what you make of it.

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore.

This. Most of the people in my gaming group either already have one or more astartes armies or are starting one, and it's one of the armies I play against the most. My buddy finally got to start his primaris Iron Hands force right before the supplements, so the games can be fairly one-sided. But thats the army he wants to play, whether its the most common or not is irrelevant, because no matter how many times the same list gets fielded, I can always switch up my lists or my play style, hell even the missions/terrain/objectives/etc, and that changes the game enough to allow me to enjoy it and never get bored.

I can understand the sentiment of not wanting to play the exact same thing over and over, but there are so many things you can change aside from your opponents army that change up the game and break the monotony of the situation. The game is what you make of it

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

Seconded.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

I don't see why this is such a sensitive topic. It's not that I don't approve of fun. It's that one army type, power armor, is way too common.

Martel732 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

I don't see why this is such a sensitive topic. It's not that I don't approve of fun. It's that one army type, power armor, is way too common.

Because people like things they like and you're telling everyone that they're wrong for liking those things and everyone should like less of those things.

Basically you're being toxic to the community and using the excuse of being "bored" to take shots at others.

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but could all this secondary shenanigans imply that First Strike/Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker would be secondaries that aren't standard, but something you could choose?

I mean, I can see the problem with that already (why would you not take First Strike - a point for killing something on turn one? Why not!), but it does seem like a better way than just having those be the default in basically every mission.

Martel732 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

I don't see why this is such a sensitive topic. It's not that I don't approve of fun. It's that one army type, power armor, is way too common.

Sports are way too common, let's get rid of those.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but could all this secondary shenanigans imply that First Strike/Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker would be secondaries that aren't standard, but something you could choose?

I mean, I can see the problem with that already (why would you not take First Strike - a point for killing something on turn one? Why not!), but it does seem like a better way than just having those be the default in basically every mission.

They could be considered tertiary missions since they can only be scored once.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but could all this secondary shenanigans imply that First Strike/Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker would be secondaries that aren't standard, but something you could choose?

I mean, I can see the problem with that already (why would you not take First Strike - a point for killing something on turn one? Why not!), but it does seem like a better way than just having those be the default in basically every mission.

If it's as I suspect and a conglomerate and GW isum of competitive missions I suspect they will be grouped together into a secondary mission consisting of
Kill the warlord 5VP, first strike 5 VP and last strike (kill on last turn) 5VP for your 15 from the secondary.
But this is pure speculation.

Which also makes me wonder: Why is everything a multiple of 5?

If everything is divisible by 5, then really everything is 1, so why make it 5? Are there 1 point objectives? 3 point objectives?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Which also makes me wonder: Why is everything a multiple of 5?

If everything is divisible by 5, then really everything is 1, so why make it 5? Are there 1 point objectives? 3 point objectives?

Easier math?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

I don't see why this is such a sensitive topic. It's not that I don't approve of fun. It's that one army type, power armor, is way too common.

Because people like things they like and you're telling everyone that they're wrong for liking those things and everyone should like less of those things.

Basically you're being toxic to the community and using the excuse of being "bored" to take shots at others.

I"m not saying people are wrong. I'm saying GW is wrong for making power armor so common and accessible. They shouldn't like them less, GW should make them less accessible.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

I don't see why this is such a sensitive topic. It's not that I don't approve of fun. It's that one army type, power armor, is way too common.

Because people like things they like and you're telling everyone that they're wrong for liking those things and everyone should like less of those things.

Basically you're being toxic to the community and using the excuse of being "bored" to take shots at others.

Martel has a point though. When I walk into an FLGS and the tables are 90% marines, it's a pretty dissapointing. More support for Xenos means more Xenos players in the clubs. I want to see more Orks, Nids and Crons in the environment. Thankfully, hopefully we'll have more Crons soon.

Martel732 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Marines are still way too common and have become boring a feth.

Sorry that you don't approve of other people's fun, but that's a you problem.

If someone like XYZ faction, they have every right to play that faction, no matter how rare or uncommon it is in lore. If we were being realistic, most people would play PDF, Guardsmen, non-Chaos insurrectionists, and occasionally Orks or Renegades and Heretics.
You play Blood Angels, don't you? Rather hypocritical to complain about other people playing Space Marines, but you being a Space Marine player.

That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

I volunteer BA for squatting.

I volunteer Martel for squatting.

I don't see why this is such a sensitive topic. It's not that I don't approve of fun. It's that one army type, power armor, is way too common.

Because people like things they like and you're telling everyone that they're wrong for liking those things and everyone should like less of those things.

Basically you're being toxic to the community and using the excuse of being "bored" to take shots at others.

I"m not saying people are wrong. I'm saying GW is wrong for making power armor so common and accessible.

It's "common and accessible" because they sell an army that wears it. An army that is the literal poster faction for the setting. OF COURSE people are going to collect the thing they see everywhere that represents 40k as a whole.

Your arguement is meaningless at best and insulting to the intelligence of humanity as a whole at worse.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Martel has a point though. When I walk into an FLGS and the tables are 90% marines, it's a pretty dissapointing. More support for Xenos means more Xenos players in the clubs. I want to see more Orks, Nids and Crons in the environment. Thankfully, hopefully we'll have more Crons soon.

It also makes it even more hilarious when/if the majority of those players are all playing the current best chapter. That also blows a hole in the argument that 40K is too complex to balance as opposed to GW is incompetent when it comes to designing a balanced game.

GW cannot even make armies made up of models from the exact same book balanced against each other. Those armies have access to almost the exact same units (because special characters are a thing) and GW still cannot make those armies balanced against each other

 Insectum7 wrote:

Martel has a point though. When I walk into an FLGS and the tables are 90% marines, it's a pretty dissapointing. More support for Xenos means more Xenos players in the clubs. I want to see more Orks, Nids and Crons in the environment. Thankfully, hopefully we'll have more Crons soon.

Even when those armies have been stronger in the meta in the past, or given support, it hasn't really decreased the number of Marine players running around on the whole. Basically everyone owns at least one Marine army, if not more, so expecting their to be less Marines out there is silly. It's only the powergamers who jump armies to chase the meta that would shelf their Marine armies to play the new hotness. And they'd be right back to them when Marines got their next update.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Which also makes me wonder: Why is everything a multiple of 5?

If everything is divisible by 5, then really everything is 1, so why make it 5? Are there 1 point objectives? 3 point objectives?

I think there are secondary objectives that award points in increments of one. There was one they previewed about keeping a tally of how many models you killed. It doesnt show the whole thing but I think it could definitely be a 1VP per 10 kills up to 15max per game

Martel732 wrote:That implies people have to spam marines to have fun.

One person collecting Marines isn't spamming, but Marines is the army they wanted to play. Who gets to pick who gets to play Marines?

If everyone wanted to play Custodes, and everyone played them, what would your solution be?

I volunteer BA for squatting.

Great. Sell your army.

Nazrak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I volunteer Martel for squatting.

Seconded.

Thirded.

Martel732 wrote:I don't see why this is such a sensitive topic. It's not that I don't approve of fun. It's that one army type, power armor, is way too common.

And? People like power armour, they think that's fun, and you're actively seeking to deprive people of that. What's your solution that doesn't involve people not getting to play the army they want?

Martel732 wrote:I"m not saying people are wrong. I'm saying GW is wrong for making power armor so common and accessible. They shouldn't like them less, GW should make them less accessible.

In what way? If Space Marines were reduced to a single Codex (not including Grey Knights, as their organisation is far different - Deathwatch *could* be hammered in to fit), people would still play Space Marines in disproportionately large numbers.

How do you make Marines less accessible without invalidating people's armies or forcing them to buy armies they had no intention of collecting?

Why is that of course? That's GW making them common and accessible. Marines vs marines is super lame at this point. Really, it always was.

"How do you make Marines less accessible without invalidating people's armies or forcing them to buy armies they had no intention of collecting?'

Probably can't be done. GW is all about invalidating armies, though. Just saying.

"Thirded."

Well, gentlemen, ignore me or petition the mods to ban me.

"People like power armour, they think that's fun, and you're actively seeking to deprive people of that."

I somewhat question this. It's more like Pavlovian conditioning to me.

Martel, get your bum off your head. It's not a hat.

There is no way to make any army in the game less "accessible". Marines are already being pushed to become more and more elite as the editions move on and they end up as Primaris, but that doesn't change how many people play them, it just makes the army eaiser to buy into since you can play games with smaller numbers of models.

And I like you complain about Marines but ignore that Chaos has millions of renedages and 30k era traitors running around in setting, and there are easilly millions of Sisters in the lore running around.

All in power armour.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Martel has a point though. When I walk into an FLGS and the tables are 90% marines, it's a pretty dissapointing. More support for Xenos means more Xenos players in the clubs. I want to see more Orks, Nids and Crons in the environment. Thankfully, hopefully we'll have more Crons soon.

It also makes it even more hilarious when/if the majority of those players are all playing the current best chapter. That also blows a hole in the argument that 40K is too complex to balance as opposed to GW is incompetent when it comes to designing a balanced game.

GW cannot even make armies made up of models from the exact same book balanced against each other. Those armies have access to almost the exact same units (because special characters are a thing) and GW still cannot make those armies balanced against each other

I played against a lot of blue and yellow iron hands. Seriously, feth GW and the chapter system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Martial, get your bum off your head. It's not a hat.

There is no way to make any army in the game less "accessible". Marines are already being pushed to become more and more elite as the editions move on and they end up as Primaris, but that doesn't change how many people play them, it just makes the army eaiser to buy into since you can play games with smaller numbers of models.

And I like you complain about Marines but ignore that Chaos has millions of renedages and 30k era traitors running around in setting, and there are easilly millions of Sisters in the lore running around.

All in power armour.

Those are still tiny numbers on a galactic scale. GW doesn't understand scale at all.