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Yeah, I honestly think the only way the supa-kannon becomes decent is if they change the platform to a gunwagon instead of battlewagon. At 210 points it might actually be pretty nice then?

I feel mech lists suffer with the loss of KFF on bike. You either lose your bubble when dude embarks or he gets left behind. Could jump him up I guess?

Morkanaut is big point investment for nice KFF and wazbomb is hard to keep in range (also pricey)

Is more than 1 BW advisable? I have one, but I was given an extra deffrolla kit and I already had a deffrolla kit. So is two BW too point intensive?

 Jidmah wrote:
Transports work a lot better, as you can usually expect to disembark and charge in T2. The new missions really force your opponent to get outside their deployment zone, otherwise they lose on primaries.

Sadly, that also means I need to find a new signature

Aww :( I loved your signature

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I'm looking at running a Deathskull MANz/boys in BWs list, and I'm torn on my HQ choices.

Ghaz is hugely expensive, will have to run up the board on his own, and won't benefit from the kulture.

Weirdboy won't have much to cast his powers on if stuff is all in wagons, but might be able to throw some MANz forward late game or if a wagon eats it.

KFF Mek is gonna get neutered to not work in melee.

Warboss is looking good, but will have to hitch a ride in a wagon. Probably going to run a boss.

Wartrikes are very squishy and don't hit as hard as I would necessarily like.


What works well in a mechanised BW list?

:EDIT:
For context, the list otherwise is very much a WIP and at the moment going to be;

Spoiler:

10 boys (nob with BC)
5 MANz
BW with rolla and case

10 boys (nob with BC)
5 MANz
BW with rolla and case

20 boys (nob with BC)
BW with rolla and case

Warboss on bike, relic klaw and biggest boss strat

Ive been playing around with the GW app...
The mega Mek w kff, big Mek with kff, morkanaut, mekadread has the kff for free...the wazbom pays 20pts
It’s hard to say what’s intended and what’s a typo..

Your arguments about MANs are absolute relevant and need to be proofed by playing. It's easy to make a math on hits, hard to calculate the role of better moving. Table is shorter in just one axes and the game is more about moving.

We' ll see. This is really the funny part of the new age, a lot of to try.

The Jidmah' s point about the one kombi rocket is definitely good point.

What seems to be questions is the role of speed generally. A lot of running around the objectives. Definitely less of camping in the castle.

Does it worth to have a better math with DS buggies or ES advance without penalties (all buggy weapons are assault) and bonus to move? ES buggies will have a massive adventage in mobility. SJD jumping without penalties. Slow MSJ moving almost twice as fast. In the game about creating local dominantion, this could be important.

Definitely a lot of to try.

When it comes to the Morkanaut, would it be worth it to run a weirdboy with the scorched git bones next to thirty orks to ensure the double shot from visions in the smoke? Thoughts

This would leave you with needing to roll a five to get what you need. The downside is that you are likely to perils so is it worth it?

russellmoo wrote:
When it comes to the Morkanaut, would it be worth it to run a weirdboy with the scorched git bones next to thirty orks to ensure the double shot from visions in the smoke? Thoughts

This would leave you with needing to roll a five to get what you need. The downside is that you are likely to perils so is it worth it?

Sadly I don't think the weirdboy relic works for any of the spells except the 6 base ork ones. Just because of it's wording.

cody.d. wrote:

russellmoo wrote:
When it comes to the Morkanaut, would it be worth it to run a weirdboy with the scorched git bones next to thirty orks to ensure the double shot from visions in the smoke? Thoughts

This would leave you with needing to roll a five to get what you need. The downside is that you are likely to perils so is it worth it?

Sadly I don't think the weirdboy relic works for any of the spells except the 6 base ork ones. Just because of it's wording.

Agreed. Unfortunately, it's kinda a trap relic because generally the only spells worth casting in the main 6 are Warpath and Da Jump, both of which usually are based around large units that give the Weirdboy enough of a buff that the +1 to cast is redundant and in fact detrimental since it makes you more likely to perils. With the advent of mech lists you might see a few Weirdboyz with Warpath to buff Meganobz but I feel like there's better ways to spend the CP once you've taken the obligatory Killa Klaw.

I suppose you could get some milage out of it if you made them a warphead then tried to cast jump and warpath or fist and warpath or something similar. Or maybe we'll get lucky and the next codex will simply make it affect physic tests.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I'm looking at running a Deathskull MANz/boys in BWs list, and I'm torn on my HQ choices.

Ghaz is hugely expensive, will have to run up the board on his own, and won't benefit from the kulture.

Weirdboy won't have much to cast his powers on if stuff is all in wagons, but might be able to throw some MANz forward late game or if a wagon eats it.

KFF Mek is gonna get neutered to not work in melee.

Warboss is looking good, but will have to hitch a ride in a wagon. Probably going to run a boss.

Wartrikes are very squishy and don't hit as hard as I would necessarily like.


What works well in a mechanised BW list?

In my experience, killa klaw warboss on warbike and the wartrike with mork's roar are the best HQs for mech lists. Ghaz might work since he got his Waaagh! back and thus might be fast enough to keep up with vehicles. He still might be too many points though.

Weird boyz have little to no synergy with vehicles often and end up left behind, which will have them end up dead in 9th. KFF meks face a similar problem, they are too slow to keep up.

When running the wartrike you simply must accept that he is not a fighter, but a shooting unit. When he charges, he is almost guaranteed to be dead by your next turn. Stay behind other units, try to hit hard targets with your melta (death skulls re-rolls!) or take out infantry with the skorcha and boomstikks. He has a decent chance of making his points back when your top priority is keeping him alive instead of charging stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
Does it worth to have a better math with DS buggies or ES advance without penalties (all buggy weapons are assault) and bonus to move? ES buggies will have a massive adventage in mobility. SJD jumping without penalties. Slow MSJ moving almost twice as fast. In the game about creating local dominantion, this could be important.

Definitely a lot of to try.

I experimented with clans a lot before settling on death skulls, evil suns being among those I tested most. My impression of ES was that while they were provided great utility, I had games where entire bonus didn't make a difference at all. Buggies already are very mobile and the extra inches rarely enable them to do something they couldn't have done anyways. Deathskulls on the other hand matter each time you are shooting anything. The extra damage you deal adds up so quickly, I had the impression of playing a completely different army. More damage means more dead enemy targets, which in return means less dead buggies - and then you get the 6++ on top which much more valuable when you are getting hit by multi-damage weapons.

So if you are running ES, you should really base you army around making visions in the smoke work to make up for the DS re-rolls, without that DS vastly outperforms them.

 Jidmah wrote:


In my experience, killa klaw warboss on warbike and the wartrike with mork's roar are the best HQs for mech lists. Ghaz might work since he got his Waaagh! back and thus might be fast enough to keep up with vehicles. He still might be too many points though.

Weird boyz have little to no synergy with vehicles often and end up left behind, which will have them end up dead in 9th. KFF meks face a similar problem, they are too slow to keep up.

When running the wartrike you simply must accept that he is not a fighter, but a shooting unit. When he charges, he is almost guaranteed to be dead by your next turn. Stay behind other units, try to hit hard targets with your melta (death skulls re-rolls!) or take out infantry with the skorcha and boomstikks. He has a decent chance of making his points back when your top priority is keeping him alive instead of charging stuff.

I'll take a look at both of those, thanks.

 Haasbioroid wrote:
Is more than 1 BW advisable? I have one, but I was given an extra deffrolla kit and I already had a deffrolla kit. So is two BW too point intensive?

One T8 model is never advisable. I play three or none at 2000 points. At the moment it's Morkanaut, BW and Da Boomer (or second BW)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I'm looking at running a Deathskull MANz/boys in BWs list, and I'm torn on my HQ choices.

What works well in a mechanised BW list?

I'm playing warboss and weirdboy (Maniacal Seizures and Warpath/Fists of Gork) but other than 3 T8 models I'm also running 60 boyz on foot and Mad Dok.

Otherwise I'm experimenting an alternative with 2 BW: the Forktress filled with 5 Meganobz and 10 boyz and the second one has Weirdboy, Warboss and 18 Boyz. Backed by the Wazbom's KFF.

I wouldn't field Ghaz outside Goffs and I'm not a fan of the Wartrike, although it's certainly a legit choice.

 Blackie wrote:

 Haasbioroid wrote:
Is more than 1 BW advisable? I have one, but I was given an extra deffrolla kit and I already had a deffrolla kit. So is two BW too point intensive?

One T8 model is never advisable. I play three or none at 2000 points. At the moment it's Morkanaut, BW and Da Boomer (or second BW)

If all of your army is made of multi-wound models, T8 really doesn't stick out that much, quite the opposite. When surrounded by buggies, MANz, warbikers or trukks, people tend to opt for shooting things that are more likely to die than BW or nauts.

Bigdoza wrote:
I feel mech lists suffer with the loss of KFF on bike. You either lose your bubble when dude embarks or he gets left behind. Could jump him up I guess?

Morkanaut is big point investment for nice KFF and wazbomb is hard to keep in range (also pricey)

The Wazbom also exists but has to move 20".

 Jidmah wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I'm looking at running a Deathskull MANz/boys in BWs list, and I'm torn on my HQ choices.

Ghaz is hugely expensive, will have to run up the board on his own, and won't benefit from the kulture.

Weirdboy won't have much to cast his powers on if stuff is all in wagons, but might be able to throw some MANz forward late game or if a wagon eats it.

KFF Mek is gonna get neutered to not work in melee.

Warboss is looking good, but will have to hitch a ride in a wagon. Probably going to run a boss.

Wartrikes are very squishy and don't hit as hard as I would necessarily like.


What works well in a mechanised BW list?

In my experience, killa klaw warboss on warbike and the wartrike with mork's roar are the best HQs for mech lists. Ghaz might work since he got his Waaagh! back and thus might be fast enough to keep up with vehicles. He still might be too many points though.

Weird boyz have little to no synergy with vehicles often and end up left behind, which will have them end up dead in 9th. KFF meks face a similar problem, they are too slow to keep up.

When running the wartrike you simply must accept that he is not a fighter, but a shooting unit. When he charges, he is almost guaranteed to be dead by your next turn. Stay behind other units, try to hit hard targets with your melta (death skulls re-rolls!) or take out infantry with the skorcha and boomstikks. He has a decent chance of making his points back when your top priority is keeping him alive instead of charging stuff.

.

That's interesting. I've been itching to try the wartrike. I get that he is a great versatile kannon up close, but wouldn't a sjd do a better job at that? Or is it more a T1 BW charge device and cleaning up unit? Or are you making him less squishy with cybork body?

Also, what do you think about a weirdboy hiding behind a building in midfield casting maniacal seisures? Is it just gone too soon or is a megamek w kff better for setting up camp in midfield?

Gruxz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I'm looking at running a Deathskull MANz/boys in BWs list, and I'm torn on my HQ choices.

Ghaz is hugely expensive, will have to run up the board on his own, and won't benefit from the kulture.

Weirdboy won't have much to cast his powers on if stuff is all in wagons, but might be able to throw some MANz forward late game or if a wagon eats it.

KFF Mek is gonna get neutered to not work in melee.

Warboss is looking good, but will have to hitch a ride in a wagon. Probably going to run a boss.

Wartrikes are very squishy and don't hit as hard as I would necessarily like.


What works well in a mechanised BW list?

In my experience, killa klaw warboss on warbike and the wartrike with mork's roar are the best HQs for mech lists. Ghaz might work since he got his Waaagh! back and thus might be fast enough to keep up with vehicles. He still might be too many points though.

Weird boyz have little to no synergy with vehicles often and end up left behind, which will have them end up dead in 9th. KFF meks face a similar problem, they are too slow to keep up.

When running the wartrike you simply must accept that he is not a fighter, but a shooting unit. When he charges, he is almost guaranteed to be dead by your next turn. Stay behind other units, try to hit hard targets with your melta (death skulls re-rolls!) or take out infantry with the skorcha and boomstikks. He has a decent chance of making his points back when your top priority is keeping him alive instead of charging stuff.

.

That's interesting. I've been itching to try the wartrike. I get that he is a great versatile kannon up close, but wouldn't a sjd do a better job at that? Or is it more a T1 BW charge device and cleaning up unit? Or are you making him less squishy with cybork body?

Also, what do you think about a weirdboy hiding behind a building in midfield casting maniacal seisures? Is it just gone too soon or is a megamek w kff better for setting up camp in midfield?

Wartrike with deathskulls WLT can snipe characters (18' inch limit is not an issue for the short ranged weapons on the wartrike hah hah), which the SJD can't do.

 addnid wrote:


Wartrike with deathskulls WLT can snipe characters (18' inch limit is not an issue for the short ranged weapons on the wartrike hah hah), which the SJD can't do.

Aaahh ofc, yes that is quite juicy. Hmm I guess keeping him around a megamek kff around mid for the 5++ and repairs is pretty awesome.

Yeah in my experience its one T6+ standing out in a horde thats the issue, not one T8.

Multiple T8's is amusing but if you got a gakton of T6's and a couple T7's floating around really only the occational S9 weapon, which is getting unusually rare imo, are gonna prioritize the single T8. They'd rather delete things easily than delete the big threat and risk failing.

After much deliberation, I think I'm going to be running the below list for a little while.



What are people's thoughts on that?

I wonder if you could always take a lone Dragsta.

Because it can fire and fade, even in a total green tide, you could probably keep it safe for 1 CP a turn with obscuring terrain.

Whether that's worth 1 CP a turn? Maybe. DS re-roll Dragta firing over an entire game sounds good to me. Can even linebreaker or something turn 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which of these is better? Trying to at least try to include boys...

Gruxz wrote:
That's interesting. I've been itching to try the wartrike. I get that he is a great versatile kannon up close, but wouldn't a sjd do a better job at that? Or is it more a T1 BW charge device and cleaning up unit? Or are you making him less squishy with cybork body?

A SJD can shoot hard targets and that's all there is to it. Wartrike is slightly worse at that (though melta rule+DS re-rolls is quite awesome), but it's also extremely good at killing infantry. So you get an extremely mobilel jack of all trades that happens to have an aura which can be good under the right circumstances. I like flexible units like these because they allow me to leverage my playing skill, where a scrapjet really doesn't have much choice in what it's going to shoot or where it's going to drive.
Don't waste any resources on making it tougher. I actually tried the T8 snazztrike once, and he still got shot to death in a single round. If anything, I would give him big killa boss to improve the odds of wounding vehicles and monsters with the melta.

Also, what do you think about a weirdboy hiding behind a building in midfield casting maniacal seisures? Is it just gone too soon or is a megamek w kff better for setting up camp in midfield?

Maniacal seizures has proven to be too unreliable without cast bonus, 40% failure rate+deny hurts. Over the five games I used it, it only made a difference once. In general, the weirdboy is a mismatch for vehicle lists as he gets left behind and/or is out of range of interesting targets. In most games I fed him to some powerful unit as bait to put them into an unfavorable position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
Wartrike with deathskulls WLT can snipe characters (18' inch limit is not an issue for the short ranged weapons on the wartrike hah hah), which the SJD can't do.

Since everyone and their dog has a 4++ save I wouldn't put my trike in danger for a single melta hit. SJD can actually snipe characters quite well with their speed and the ability to just jump away afterwards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
After much deliberation, I think I'm going to be running the below list for a little while.

Spoiler:

+++ Battalion +++
++Deathskulls++

Warboss
Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw
Da Biggest Boss, Warlord, Kunnin' but Brutal

Deffkilla Wartrike
Kustom Job; Gorks Roar

Weirdboy
Warphead, Da Jump, Warpath

Boys
9x Boys with Choppas
1x Boss Nob with Big Choppa

Boys
9x Boys with Choppas
1x Boss Nob with Big Choppa

Boys
17x Boys with Choppas
1x Boss Nob with Big Choppa

Meganobs
4x Meganobs with Kustom Shootas
1x Boss Nob with dual Killsaws

Megatrakk Scrapjet

Megatrakk Scrapjet

Battlewagon
'Ard Case, Deff Rolla

Battlewagon
'Ard Case, Deff Rolla

Gunwagon
Killkannon
Kustom Job: Da Boomer

If Battlescribe is correct, that should be 1499 points.

What are people's thoughts on that?

Why only one MAN with dual killsaws?

Your scrapjets should get the korkscrew.

That's really interesting Jidmah, thank you. So you run him with just the kustom job? And beside him a warboss on bike with the biggest boss strat. And than just picking out juicy targets?

 Afrodactyl wrote:
After much deliberation, I think I'm going to be running the below list for a little while.

Spoiler:

+++ Battalion +++
++Deathskulls++

Warboss
Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw
Da Biggest Boss, Warlord, Kunnin' but Brutal

Deffkilla Wartrike
Kustom Job; Gorks Roar

Weirdboy
Warphead, Da Jump, Warpath

Boys
9x Boys with Choppas
1x Boss Nob with Big Choppa

Boys
9x Boys with Choppas
1x Boss Nob with Big Choppa

Boys
17x Boys with Choppas
1x Boss Nob with Big Choppa

Meganobs
4x Meganobs with Kustom Shootas
1x Boss Nob with dual Killsaws

Megatrakk Scrapjet

Megatrakk Scrapjet

Battlewagon
'Ard Case, Deff Rolla

Battlewagon
'Ard Case, Deff Rolla

Gunwagon
Killkannon
Kustom Job: Da Boomer

If Battlescribe is correct, that should be 1499 points.

What are people's thoughts on that?

It's good. I'm just not sure about the Weirdboy: in a 1500 points lists 3 HQs are maybe too many, and a cheap scoring unit like a Kopta or Kommandos could be useful; with the spared points you could give Killsaws to all your Nobz and Meganobz. Why do you need Da Jump anyway? To jump Meganobz? Rest of the game the psyker would be almost useless in a mechanized list, you could put the Meganobz into Tellyporta. Maniacal Seizures is amazing for Deathskullz. If you keep the weirdboy I recommend taking that power.

As Jidmah suggested you could invest one CP on MSJ's kustom job, it's usually worthy if you field 2-3 of them. Burning 6-7 CPs pre-game looks like a lot, but IMHO it's not, orks need all the buffs they can get. I'm doing everytime for mechanized lists.

Overall it looks pretty solid as it is though


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Maniacal seizures has proven to be too unreliable without cast bonus, 40% failure rate+deny hurts. Over the five games I used it, it only made a difference once. In general, the weirdboy is a mismatch for vehicle lists as he gets left behind and/or is out of range of interesting targets. In most games I fed him to some powerful unit as bait to put them into an unfavorable position.

If he embarks the psyker with the big unit of boyz it should be ok, getting a +1 or even +2 is not impossible. But it definitely works better with more large squads of boyz: 20+ boyz with Seizures AP bonus and Warpath are brutal.

 Blackie wrote:


If he embarks the psyker with the big unit of boyz it should be ok, getting a +1 or even +2 is not impossible. But it definitely works better with more large squads of boyz: 20+ boyz with Seizures AP bonus and Warpath are brutal.

I thought you couldn't cast inside a transport? Or count those boys towards the ability.

Correct, psyker must be on the battlefield to cast and the orks must be on battlefield to count towards the bonus

@Jidmah
The single MAN with saws is partially due to what I have available model-wise and also points wise. If I had scope for playing larger games, I'd get hold of more MANs with saws.

@Blackie
The plan with the weirdboy was to embark it, the warboss and the larger boys mob in one of the wagons to get it upfield where it can smite and get warpath on whichever unit needs it the most. It was also going to serve as insurance if a wagon got killed too soon then he could potentially Jump the wagons cargo into a more favourable spot. I also realise it is potential dead weight bearing in mind the rest of the list.

As far as Korkscrew goes, I forgot it was a thing in all honesty. I'm correct in thinking that if I make them a single unit then Korkscrew will apply to both? If that's the case then that's straight away going in.

I'll give the weirdboy a try, and if it isn't pulling its weight then I'll remove it, proxy in some more saws for the MANs and spend the change on kommandos or a single kopta and see how I get on.


As ever, thanks for the input

Vineheart01 wrote:only time i'd say the grot mega tank is a good pick is if you are running Goffs+GrotMobz
Scrapjet is better in cost, durability, and doesnt nuke itself sometimes in exchange for less potential damage (i think its overall roughly the same though, given Grotmobz cant reroll the D6 you can easily get shafted on the damage while the Scrapjet is fixed damage)

In 8th i ran 2 of them with 8 grottanks and 6 killakanz and it was amusingly effective but....pricehykes on subpar units...gotta love it

The big FW model ive been eyeing as of now is Bigtrakks w/ Supakannons. Theyre 150pts....for a table-long 2D6 S8 AP2 flat3 damage gun lol...yeah theyre not much harder to pop than a Trukk but they got the reach to avoid most of the painful guns.

Maybe true regarding the Scrapjet but if you have the FW models you can do a detachment with Rokkits that hit on 4s that is -3 and dmg 4 with that specialist trait. vs bikes that's not shabby. I wrote a FW style list with the Grot Mega Tank and 4 Grot Tanks doing that.

Bigtrakk SupaSkorchas are decent since they auto-hit.

Gruxz wrote:

 Blackie wrote:


If he embarks the psyker with the big unit of boyz it should be ok, getting a +1 or even +2 is not impossible. But it definitely works better with more large squads of boyz: 20+ boyz with Seizures AP bonus and Warpath are brutal.

I thought you couldn't cast inside a transport? Or count those boys towards the ability.

No, of course but at some point he will disembark, just like all the other models that share the transport That's the time to cast buffin powers like Warpath, Fists of Gork, Maniacal Seizures, etc...

I'm running a Tin Eadz 2k force this evening running;

Ghaz + Makari
Painboy to unlock Medi Squig strat on Ghaz
5 x MANZ with twin Killsaw
4 x MANZ with twin Killsaw
3 x 10 Grots
3 x Chinorks with twin Rattler Kannon
5 x Killa Kanz with Rokkit+Klaw and -1 to hit KJ
3 x Deff Dread with triple Saw and +3 M KJ
Battlewagon with D/Rolla, Ard Case
And a random Deffkopta as I had an awkward 37 pts left.

My Question is I figured I needed a KFF in the force but my experience of KFF is they provide a decent aura but don't do a hell of a lot more.
So, with that in mind I'm experimenting tonight with a Big Mek in Mega Armour with KFF, equipped with the Killa Klaw I have also made him Da Cleverest boss for the extra wound and attack, and given him the warlord trait of Kunnin but brutal.
As re-deploying three units depending on whether i am going first or second seems huge.
He will sit in the Battlewagon with the 9 MANZ to give it the 5+ invuln (hence why I didn't bother with Forktress) and when they decamp onto an objective in enemy territory he can mix it up with his Klaw and still buff the MANZ.

At least that's the logic behind it.

Has anybody tried anything similar?
Do you guys think it might just be better to make the B/Wagon the forktress and run another Warboss instead?