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Remember that Medi-squig is clan locked, so you'll have to split things up. A Goff one (I assume just Ghaz, Mak, the painboy, and some filler grots) and then the Mek and rest in a Spearhead? That's a fair amount of CP for healing Ghaz, especially if you want the Mek to be the Warlord.

Kanz seem to have made out very poorly in the point changes, so you might swap them for more dreads or MANz.

As for the KFF being relegated to the MANz, do you run into a lot of AP-4 stuff that would require a KFF? If he's just supporting their ride, you could save a few points and just slap the kustom job on their BW. I'd say he'd be more useful supporting the walkers, but they're going to outrun him in short order. Have you thought about a Wartrike to run with the dreads, instead? He can keep up, lets them run and charge, and can pop off a few shots with the KJ.

Considering how many army lists were are currently discussing in parallel,
please post those lists on the army list forum and link them here

That way each suggestion can get dedicated discussion without making this thread unreadable.

In return, everyone follow those links and respond in the corresponding threads despite all the issues the army forum lists usually has.

Now that Ghazghkull's Waagh actually works, what are the things to consider?

Makari's advantage was the 6+ FNP applies to vehicles. Wouldn't Deff Dreads be an intriguing pairing with Ghaz? Or a Gorkanaut?

Notwithstanding their inability to advance and charge without a Wartrike. Perhaps made up for by the 3D6" charge strat or Sparkly Bits. I'm really frustrated by the speed differences in general. MANz also seem plodding at 4" and appear on their face to be a bad pairing with Goffs.

Another frustration is you can't use Da Biggest Boss with Ghaz.

But Ghaz's and Makari's litany of auras could conceivably make dreads or Nauts rather killy.

Also, since his aura now applies to Monsters....Squiggoth? Squiggoth with MANz maybe?

MANz can't go in the Howdah.

Goffs and MANz go together fine. You just have to mount them, which is actually AMAZING with Goffs, because Makari can give your vehicles a FNP.

Exploding 6s Mega Nobs trash. And if Ghaz is on the board near them, they also re-roll 1s and get +1 attack. 5 attack Mega Nobs, 6 w/ War path... they'll rampage just about anything if they charge.

If my mental math is right...

4+ to hit, exploding 6s re-rolling 1s is actually better than a WS3+ in average hits.

Makari and Ghaz are moving 7+3.5" a turn, I see unit cohesion being somewhat of a problem with a BW.

How are you just guaranteeing that your transport is getting a 6+? You have to keep them within 6". It's also only a 6+. if that's so amazing, I would rather go Snakebites since it's simpler and universal for a mech list. Or Deathskulls.

Where are you getting Warpath and Ghaz near a unit of BW MANz? Is Makari and Ghaz just teleporting to your best units the entire game?

 TedNugent wrote:
Now that Ghazghkull's Waagh actually works, what are the things to consider?

Makari's advantage was the 6+ FNP applies to vehicles. Wouldn't Deff Dreads be an intriguing pairing with Ghaz? Or a Gorkanaut?

I played this last sunday, and Makari didn't save a single wound. The FNP aura also doesn't work if he is not near Thrakka. My impression was that Makari is better left at home.

Notwithstanding their inability to advance and charge without a Wartrike. Perhaps made up for by the 3D6" charge strat or Sparkly Bits. I'm really frustrated by the speed differences in general. MANz also seem plodding at 4" and appear on their face to be a bad pairing with Goffs.

You can have deff dreads with 9" movement though. Goff nauts are insane due to their tripple hit rolls though, double so with Thrakka's aura.

I think such a list has its merits if you manage to get enough shooting into it to go along with all the stompy stuff. If you can't take out threats from a distance, you will be losing too many vehicles.

7+6+3.5=16.5" that the Makari aura can reach, battlewagons move 12+3.5=15.5" on average.
It's more to let the meganobz actually reach the enemy at all than anything else. Remember they're most likely moving towards you too now days because of the midfield play.
As long as that wagon doesnt roll a 6 and ghaz/makari roll a 1, hes gonna be in range for that 6+++. Also, wagons are long as hell and only the back wheel needs to be in the aura for the benefit, so odds are that wagon wont get out of range t1.
Such a debacle shouldnt be a concern T2 onward, you wont have that much distance to travel unless your opponent is flatout running away from you. In which case enjoy your primary points as you park on objectives lol

Honestly, only aura abilities I was ever able manage to work was KFF and advance and charge.

Any FNP never worked ´cause it was... to complicated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly, only aura abilities I was ever able manage to work was KFF and advance and charge.

Any FNP never worked ´cause it was... to complicated.

 Jidmah wrote:

I played this last sunday, and Makari didn't save a single wound. The FNP aura also doesn't work if he is not near Thrakka. My impression was that Makari is better left at home.

My pet theory on makari: The FNP aura isn't worth it. If you have to choose between a painboy and him, the painboy easily wins in utility for Ghaz.

But he does provide interesting opportunities for secondaries that are probably worth exploring. Fact is, you rarely care if he takes an action.

tulun wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

I played this last sunday, and Makari didn't save a single wound. The FNP aura also doesn't work if he is not near Thrakka. My impression was that Makari is better left at home.

My pet theory on makari: The FNP aura isn't worth it. If you have to choose between a painboy and him, the painboy easily wins in utility for Ghaz.

But he does provide interesting opportunities for secondaries that are probably worth exploring. Fact is, you rarely care if he takes an action.

Many secondaries exclude characters for their actions though - especially the ones that would benefit from a 2++ model doing them. Makari can only deploy teleport homers or raise banners, but isn't especially good at either due to not being very fast and having no way of capturing/holding objectives.

 Jidmah wrote:


Many secondaries exclude characters for their actions though - especially the ones that would benefit from a 2++ model doing them. Makari can only deploy teleport homers or raise banners, but isn't especially good at either due to not being very fast and having no way of capturing/holding objectives.

Mmm, fair. Linebreaker and Teleport homer could be a strat I guess? Da Jump him in late game to a corner, and try to pull the enemy away from the centre?

You could just drive a trukk full of infantry there for the same effect though. Plus he isn't impossible to kill at all, just annoyingly resilient - if you bring him too close to troops units with many shots, they will just gun him down.

Makari still dies to weight of dice, any jumppack unit would just zip over and while they may take 1-2 rounds to do it barring some really bad luck on Makari's part he'll die eventually.

Imo the best use of him if he isnt handing out FNP is to charge something important, even something deadly, and just be a massive thorn keeping it locked down as he really wont die to a single big model...at all...and if that model backs off just re-charge lol.
Kill your opponent's attention, not their models with makari.

Makari needs to lose his 3in restriction to ghaz to activate his fnp

It’s fine for his speed boost and he already can only be taken in ghaz detachment. (Which needs to be fixed before ghaz gets supreme commander keyword)

The fact he’s an HQ means he’s a no go from me....

As somebody else pointed out somewhere else, in this moment ant time, in 9th, you can win just by maxing out primaries with T2 to 4 and than finishing off secondaries T5.
Just by holding 2 objectives thru T2 to T5 secures you 40 out of 45 points.
That means you could spam trukk boyz and physically block out the opponent from scoring with the trukk out of most the 3" bubble and having some boyz to ensure the obsec .
CC is a great tool no for the killiness, but for the opportunity to move up the objective and steal it from your opponent next turn.
DS is the way to go imho, since you can have an incredible amount of borderline fearless body with obsec and 6++ everywhere.
A really skilled sparring partner of mine has been suggesting to lean on big kommandos units just for the ability to threat mid and back board later in the game when there is no much firepower left. Having 2*10 or even 3*10 fearless obsec body later on can really be a problem to deal with most armies.
My personal advise is to go strong on effective firepower as the Smashaguns, bombers and gunwagon and than fill the board with obsec that just need 1 guy to survive In the end.
I have a tournament in the end of the month and I think I'll bring just a bunch of Smashaguns, a couple of planes, trukkboys and 20 kommando

Hey I'm back on track.

This is the lsit I've been thinking of.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/790598.page#10884875

I've been thinking of playing cheated warboss instead of Ghazkghull, because he's super expensive and do a lot of overkill (the difference between 15 damage and 35 damage to a miniature in a 2000p match is 0, the model is dead anyways).
On the other hand, I'm not sure about the tankbustas, what do you think

 Jidmah wrote:
Considering how many army lists were are currently discussing in parallel,
please post those lists on the army list forum and link them here

That way each suggestion can get dedicated discussion without making this thread unreadable.

In return, everyone follow those links and respond in the corresponding threads despite all the issues the army forum lists usually has.

tulun wrote:


Mmm, fair. Linebreaker and Teleport homer could be a strat I guess? Da Jump him in late game to a corner, and try to pull the enemy away from the centre?

I prefer min squad of Kommandos for Linebreaker and Teleport Homer, they're 20pts cheaper and don't occupy one HQ slot. For actions like raising the banner a 30-35 points mek is an option.

I'm also on the opinion that Makari is better left at home, although is certainly not useless.

What we think about:
- mental interrogation?
- pierce the veil?
- investigate site?

I wouldn't take any psyker based secondaries. If I bring a weirdboy I want to use his powers and perhaps more importantly, they're super squishy so your opponent would have a fairly easy time to kill them and deny you a ton of points.

I realise you pick the secondaries after you've seen your opponents army and would take those if they had any snipers, but I just don't think it's worth having to be really protective with the weirdboy all game to try and get those secondary points. Both of those are also location based so they can be spaced out in a way that's difficult to get to.

An additional bonus is of course that if you don't bring a psyker at all then you gain access to one of the very best secondaries out there, abhor the witch. It's situational but dear Gork/Mork does it pay off in some of the matchups I've had.

I think mental interrogation might be a good tier 2 secondary to keep in your bag when you ll find that secondaries deny list at a tournament.

Im seeing a trnmend on Reddit with people pushing lists that deny you max secondaries .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We should do an evaluation in tier for secondaries aswell

PiñaColada wrote:
I wouldn't take any psyker based secondaries. If I bring a weirdboy I want to use his powers and perhaps more importantly, they're super squishy so your opponent would have a fairly easy time to kill them and deny you a ton of points.

I realise you pick the secondaries after you've seen your opponents army and would take those if they had any snipers, but I just don't think it's worth having to be really protective with the weirdboy all game to try and get those secondary points. Both of those are also location based so they can be spaced out in a way that's difficult to get to.

An additional bonus is of course that if you don't bring a psyker at all then you gain access to one of the very best secondaries out there, abhor the witch. It's situational but dear Gork/Mork does it pay off in some of the matchups I've had.

Agree with the above... those secondaries seem made for Niche psyker heavy armies like grey knights, or tzetch, maybe eldar if you have a ton of fast psykers...
But what he said above about abhor the witch is the main reason not to take a psyker. I just find it hard not to take a psyker in a goff list that wants extra atks and da jump movement.

I'm certainly not saying never take a psyker, but I do think it's important to consider the potential upside of leaving him at home. It's obviously super list dependent as psykers are sometimes force multipliers/adding utility in a way that's too good to pass up.

Regarding Mental Interrogation Emicrania, I think it's fine but personally I worry about placing a character that squishy within 18" of an enemy character. Considering how many times you need to get that power off for it to be worth it as a secondary (obviously 5 is the dream, but realistically you at least want 3) it seems so risky. And fairly easy to counter, considering you'll only have one psyker most likely.

I'm all for making a secondary objective tier list in the first post though. I gave my thoughts on quite a few (most?) secondaries a few pages back, but it's obviously a group effort requiring a bit of trial&error.

Buzzgrob May be a decent kff Mek for goffs depending on fw book.

Anyone notice buzzgrob is actually a really good big Mek with kff..
He’s a character with wargear included kff that only costs 75pts... if they make his kff a purchase he’s still decent.
He has more wounds a 4+ save and a decent big choppa atks and has a built in Grot.
He’s better then a normal kff big Mek.. so unless they drastically change his datasheet you should take him instead of a basic kff Mek in goff list.

PiñaColada wrote:I'm certainly not saying never take a psyker, but I do think it's important to consider the potential upside of leaving him at home. It's obviously super list dependent as psykers are sometimes force multipliers/adding utility in a way that's too good to pass up.

Regarding Mental Interrogation Emicrania, I think it's fine but personally I worry about placing a character that squishy within 18" of an enemy character. Considering how many times you need to get that power off for it to be worth it as a secondary (obviously 5 is the dream, but realistically you at least want 3) it seems so risky. And fairly easy to counter, considering you'll only have one psyker most likely.

I'm all for making a secondary objective tier list in the first post though. I gave my thoughts on quite a few (most?) secondaries a few pages back, but it's obviously a group effort requiring a bit of trial&error.

I just had a couple of game of 9th and I'm trying to branch out. I found out that relying on the same secondaries in ITC was a mistake a lot of player did. But after a second look at those range I might give it to ya.

gungo wrote:Buzzgrob May be a decent kff Mek for goffs depending on fw book.

Anyone notice buzzgrob is actually a really good big Mek with kff..
He’s a character with wargear included kff that only costs 75pts... if they make his kff a purchase he’s still decent.
He has more wounds a 4+ save and a decent big choppa atks and has a built in Grot.
He’s better then a normal kff big Mek.. so unless they drastically change his datasheet you should take him instead of a basic kff Mek in goff list.

If you take Goff buzzgrobb is autoinclude.

Does buzz gob have a KFF now? In his current datasheet he has the rules for a KFF but isn’t actually equipped with one.

He could in 8th, and in BS he's 75 points and the KFF is a free option, which might be a mistake. I don't have the CA at hand, can anybody check ?

Do you think it would be broken if all our models had the more dakka stratagem baked in? I've been thinking about it, and I think it could fix a lot of our problems. Instantly makes all our shooting options so much more viable.

With many tabletops now having a bit of dense cover as standard, and all factions getting the always hitting on 6's rule, I feel our Dakka,Dakka rule has been left behind.

If we have to shoot through dense cover our shooting largely becomes worthless.

So my question is do we think it might be sometething GW are considering for our Codex or is it a pipe dream?

I mean, that would effectively remove all shooting modifiers from the game for Orks, that seems like a crazy ask to me. They've just created terrain rules (to be used with their new & fairly common admech style terrain) that gives a penalty to hit, don't think they want to render those useless for an entire faction.

If DDD were to get a change, which I doubt it will, then surely the simpler thing is just that unmodified 6's score an additional hit and not an additional shot? That would be a fairly robust power boost and it'd speed up the game quite a bit.

PiñaColada wrote:
I mean, that would effectively remove all shooting modifiers from the game for Orks, that seems like a crazy ask to me. They've just created terrain rules (to be used with their new & fairly common admech style terrain) that gives a penalty to hit, don't think they want to render those useless for an entire faction.

If DDD were to get a change, which I doubt it will, then surely the simpler thing is just that unmodified 6's score an additional hit and not an additional shot? That would be a fairly robust power boost and it'd speed up the game quite a bit.

For the love of gork, yes please.