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russellmoo wrote:


The thing is with the buggies once you have 9 of them then what does the rest of the list look like? Meaning 3 scrap jets, 3 kbb, and 3 dragsters then 2 burna bombers plus HQs you still have around 4-500 points left how do we best use those?

This is Andy's GT winning list.



The answer to your question is warbikers to hold your back objective / some chaff counter charging, apparently.

This list isn't even that optimized imo. Andy said he'd drop the KBB and snazz for more Dragstas, on his commentary of his list.

I'd probably swap the warbikers for Nob Bikers, and then just trade the biker boss for a walking boss. Maybe toss in 3-4 Mega Nobs in the transport with him.

The list is helpful but it might just be one approach. I agree that buggies are the way to go, I am just wondering if warbikers and battlewagons are the best use of the remaining points.

russellmoo wrote:
The list is helpful but it might just be one approach. I agree that buggies are the way to go, I am just wondering if warbikers and battlewagons are the best use of the remaining points.

We're still early. Think you just gotta test stuff out.

In part it'll probably depend on your meta. The wagons are really good, though, as they play to the mission. You want tanky units that rush to the midboard, and T8, 16 wound models that are good in CC, with a good movement stat really check off these requirements.

I imagine you don't necessarily need *two* of them, though, so certain elements are probably swappable.

russellmoo wrote:
The list is helpful but it might just be one approach. I agree that buggies are the way to go, I am just wondering if warbikers and battlewagons are the best use of the remaining points.

I'm not personally a fan of warbikers, bit evidently he has had some success with them. Wagons work well en masse, I'm running three at 1500 points (full of boys and MANz), and I'm debating moving to a spearhead to get more wagons in at the expense of boys.

Stock wagons or bonebreakas?

 Billagio wrote:
Stock wagons or bonebreakas?

I would assume stock wagons, since bonebreakas IMO pay too much of a price premium over regular wagons just to get the D6 extra attacks on the charge, which you usually only get off once per game. This is especially important with regards to the occupants, since BB also don't have the transport capacity to have both a squad of boyz and MANZ inside, where the boyz can offset any losses from the transport going kaput.

I dont think i'll ever use a bonebreaka again unless im being silly and running 6 wagons w/ rollas lol.

It pays a noticable amount of points for 8 less capacity, mandated 'ard case, and D6 extra attacks that generally only happens once a game.
The D6 extra attacks can make a big difference but generally the 8 less capacity makes a bigger difference, as you cant have nobz + a squad of extra wounds to eat the explode damage inside. Bonebreakas can only have nobs or boyz, not both, and thats a huge problem.

Use kommandos if looking for ablative wounds. And most likely one will survive and you can make him nob and give claw or just hide him in terrain for rest of game to deny VPs

Number-wise that works, but they also both take elite slots.
Not an issue if you only have 1 squad of nobz/meganobz anyway but if youre trying to run 2 wagons in such a fashion, need a 4th elite slot.

Least in my area wagons are bullet magnets...for some reason...ive even tested that out and ran a wagon with nothing but grots in it and it still got shot at first for some reason. So i wont use one unless i got multiples

Personally, I'm hoping for +1 wound for bikes in general and ours getting back exhaust cloud. Almost every other biker unit in the game has some defense mechanism now, except the ones who had it first.

Well, if I were the one to write the rules, I'd make exhaust cloud work like obscuring terrain - that would open up endless possibilities for strategic shenanigans.

This makes sense.
There seems to be a trend to use terrain traits for special rules. Like rules that get you the benefit of light cover etc.
Might be possible to see more future units - especially bikers - to get new rules and strategems that use light cover / heavy cover / obscuring.

I kinda regret i sold my 9 nob bikers at ebay about a year ago. I used some Speed Freak bikes and bitz, nobs and ork stuff. Had a few with double killsaws and some with (big) choppas.
Sprued some foundaton on them but was to lazy to paint them.
Would really like to play that unit now. :(
Maybe someone here got them at least. ^^

I guess bikers will be quite usefull. They can help the buggies block enemy movement and park around objectives. Even if 12 warbikers loose 6-9 a turn, the few surviving ones might be enough to block off the objective or a key position and make it easier to hold objective till your command phase.
One of the key elements in our buggy lists will be to optimize board control, screen enemy movement and have enough units in the right place to disturb the opponents movement and plans.

For that reason i can see stormboys work great with buggies as well, plus some waggons / nauts and maybe bikes.
They are fast and can reach parts of the battlefield that are impossible for the others to get to.
As much as i love using my 3 dragstas, even with the custom job you cant go everywhere.
Boys are great and i see still value in the large mobs and board control combined with holding 4/6 objectives long enough to get through 5 turns, but boys have their limits.
Tellyport and and da jump have their 9" problem and you get your stuff only turn 2 & 3. With other armies also pressing forward to control the midfield, i`d rather use them footslogging or riding waggons / trukks.

Together with the other boys / nobs / manz in waggons etc. they can work quite well.
On the other hand 500 poins for 20 Stormboys and 10 Bikes is quite an investment, so the budget on the rest of the list is really, really tight.
I tried 3 x 5 stormboys for getting secondaries without sacrificing buggies. That worked okay but they have no real damage output. Just enough to clear 10 guard with a a bit of shooting (support).

I dont think i'll ever use a bonebreaka again unless im being silly and running 6 wagons w/ rollas lol.

It pays a noticable amount of points for 8 less capacity, mandated 'ard case, and D6 extra attacks that generally only happens once a game.
The D6 extra attacks can make a big difference but generally the 8 less capacity makes a bigger difference, as you cant have nobz + a squad of extra wounds to eat the explode damage inside. Bonebreakas can only have nobs or boyz, not both, and thats a huge problem.

I´m with you on this one. Ether da boomer as light transport with dakka or just battlewaggon(s).


As said before, i love Flash Gitz, but i am leaning more and more into alternatives to accompany the buggies, two fliers, HQ`s and heavy vehicles.
Can`t play always the same stuff anyways.




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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Number-wise that works, but they also both take elite slots.
Not an issue if you only have 1 squad of nobz/meganobz anyway but if youre trying to run 2 wagons in such a fashion, need a 4th elite slot.

Well an battalion has 6 and patrol + outrider / spearhead got 2 each. So you`ll have at least 4 or 6 mostly.
Unless you go for a outrider-detachment-only list to maximise CP of course.

Anyone have positive experiences with Stormboys in 9th?

12 PPM seems costly for a unit that at best can be used to eat/deny overwatch, and with the loss of the biker boss, not even able to do a 25+" Move+Advance+Charge.

PiñaColada wrote:I gotta be honest, I still don't really see the case for Flash Gits when you basically get 2 tankbustas for every FG you bring. Sure, worse BS but they can move and shoot without penalty and flat 3DMG is going to be a lot tastier against the new terminator statline etc (not to mention they're great against tanks).

I don't really see the case to compare those two units. I love both and their weaponry is different the unit profile is different, the strats you use are different. I take both

Billagio wrote:Stock wagons or bonebreakas?

Bonebreakers. He ran two up and slammed the enemy with the Deffkilla (for advance and charge).

The bikes he used were deployment area/board edge control and when a buggy need to drop back being low on HP he could swap up the bikes.

 Diakos wrote:
Anyone have positive experiences with Stormboys in 9th?

12 PPM seems costly for a unit that at best can be used to eat/deny overwatch, and with the loss of the biker boss, not even able to do a 25+" Move+Advance+Charge.

At 50% extra cost of a boy for what Kommandos can pretty much do at a lower price? I can think they're pretty much a hard pass atm. The whole point of stormboyz was that you had large units as the other hammer to go with the Da Jumping Boyz in 8th ed, but now that your opponent is pretty much coming to you in the middle, that's no longer really that necessar and they cost way too much for guys that die as fast as boyz, who don't even have the same damage output. You're better off taking more boyz if you're going for a Green Tide style list, and they just give all the anti-infantry guns a target in buggy lists, so I don't think they really have a role in the top Ork armies atm. They need to get a points cut down to 9 or an overall rules revision to something than just Boyz with jump packs to be worth taking.

 Diakos wrote:
Anyone have positive experiences with Stormboys in 9th?

12 PPM seems costly for a unit that at best can be used to eat/deny overwatch, and with the loss of the biker boss, not even able to do a 25+" Move+Advance+Charge.

Well you can still use the warboss chilling in one of the waggons as speed bump.
Sure it means to conga line a bit but might work. Guess that depends if you want to use them for first turn strikes or plan to use them more midfield over turn 2-4.

Stormboyz need a large pricecut or a new rule to justify using them over kommandoz.
Theyre 3ppm more than kommandoz
Fly isnt that important right now (infantry go right through most terrain anyway)
They offer nothing in melee kommandoz/boyz dont have.

I'm not sure what rule you could give them, but they could really use a new rule slapped on them to differentiate them. You dont even take them for the deepstrike because kommandoz do that now too (kommandoz used to have to be in terrain, not anymore)

Maybe if they had something to better represent the crunching charge a unit of boys strapped to rockets would have. Though unless you jump a footboss up the field it's unlikely they'll ever need to advance nowdays so less likely to lose that 1/6 boyz.

Perhaps a strength of ap bonus for charging? Extra attack or even mortal wounds at the cost of a model? Something along those lines.

But yeah, compared to commandos in their current state stormboyz have little going for them. IMO their main strength was being able to charge super reliably turn 1 with a 20" move under speedfreaks.

I was thinking about trying out the Goff list that placed recently (https://spikeybits.com/2020/08/top-3-9th-edition-40k-army-lists-warzone-giga-bites-iv.html). What could I use to replace the smasha guns? I know I need some antitank but I'm not sure if I want to drop the money on mek gunz quite yet

cody.d. wrote:
Maybe if they had something to better represent the crunching charge a unit of boys strapped to rockets would have. Though unless you jump a footboss up the field it's unlikely they'll ever need to advance nowdays so less likely to lose that 1/6 boyz.

Perhaps a strength of ap bonus for charging? Extra attack or even mortal wounds at the cost of a model? Something along those lines.

But yeah, compared to commandos in their current state stormboyz have little going for them. IMO their main strength was being able to charge super reliably turn 1 with a 20" move under speedfreaks.

Yeah, I would like it if they showed the disciplined nature (for Orks) of Stormboyz rules-wise in some way. Would be a nice contrast against regular Ork boy mobs if they only lost 1 model from attrition tests, though that might be redundant with how morale works now (and Zagstruk would need a different rule regarding his aura). They're more likely to get a "hammer of wrath" esque rule where you roll a D6 for each model in engagement range of an enemy unit and you inflict mortal wounds on each 6 you roll after you successfully make a charge roll. Maybe even just letting them charge after they advance would be good enough.

What do you think its the best way to run wagons? I like the idea of spamming them with boyz/nobz/warboss inside and creating an armored wall like in 5th


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miscNouns wrote:
I was thinking about trying out the Goff list that placed recently (https://spikeybits.com/2020/08/top-3-9th-edition-40k-army-lists-warzone-giga-bites-iv.html). What could I use to replace the smasha guns? I know I need some antitank but I'm not sure if I want to drop the money on mek gunz quite yet

You could convert them, theres a video where you buy a mek gun and trukk box and can get 4 mek gunz out of it. Im personally using some plastic dollar store artillery pieces as the basis for my conversions

miscNouns wrote:
I was thinking about trying out the Goff list that placed recently (https://spikeybits.com/2020/08/top-3-9th-edition-40k-army-lists-warzone-giga-bites-iv.html). What could I use to replace the smasha guns? I know I need some antitank but I'm not sure if I want to drop the money on mek gunz quite yet

So there it is! List with trukk boyz that worked! 3rd. Interesting... Discussion here about a week ago had a conclusion, that truckboyz suck. But this guy spam them.

4 truckboyz + 2x grots + 3 squads of kommandos occuppy the field under command of warboss and weirdboy
3kbb + 3sjd + 3sj clear the sky.

In fact that solve one of the problems - buggies shoot, so the people shoot back. If the buggy holds objective, enemy shoot down your weapons and objective graber in the same time. This guy has a spam of (sorry but..) defendless truckboyz, so you either shoot the damn trucks or weapons, that are deleting your army. Can' t do both. Buggies deletes the anti infantry and mobile units and boyz are safe in second half of the game.

And the 1st Place also orks - 90 boyz, 2x5MAN, ghaz, warboss, weirboy, kffmek, nob banner and 3smg goffs. Exploding choppas. Sink the enemy under the models and dices. And let him miss the MANz that hit like a deathstar. It ' s the way how to play Ghazz “properly” - in pure inf list with support of manz.

Both lists are spam of one type of target.

I was also glad to see trukkboyz are still viable. Now if only I also had the buggies to support them lol

I've got an upcoming tourney 2k points with the GT missions and is enforcing that horrible painting rule. So this is a list that I conveniently have 100% painted and involves both the Gargantuan Squiggoth and Trukk Boyz. It's going off the assumption transports are being played RAI and not RAW of course.
The intention behind the list is that Trukk Boyz capitalise on mobility to score objectives. I am even hoping to use Trukks to block move block enemies where possible. The Gargantuan Squiggoth is going to have the KFF and Flash Gitz on board. It's just going to exist as a big threat to distract from the Trukks scoring. Ideally it will survive for a couple of turns and hammer down problematic units. If terrain allows it to be mobile enough, I would also like to use it as another obstacle my opponent has to deal with.
The Warboss will probably hitch a ride in a Trukk with the intent of getting stukk in on turn 2.
I think we all know what the Burna Bommer is there for.

Also secondaries:
Engage On All Fronts will be an auto take, the rest will be dependent on enemy army composition. I think Grind Them Down could be a safe pick against some armies. While we stand, We fight is tempting but the Flash Gitz and Gargantuan Squiggoth will be the biggest targets in my list. If I play against a list that doesn't look like it can answer it then I'll pick that. Investigate Sites is also a tempting one, depending on how confident I feel I can zone off the centre of the board.

PiñaColada wrote:
Yes, I understand that TBs are inferior to FGs when it comes to being dedicated primaries killers. But that's not their role really, they just have to be fairly decent at it. My point being that they're probably good enough to pull that double duty if your facing an infantry heavy SM list (especially if it's terminators, gravis, potentially those new heavy intercessors). If you're facing something a more balanced list then those TBs can easily demolish some tanks instead.

Tankbustas made out like bandits whereas Flash Gits did not, so if you're facing a bunch of Space Marines then obviously the Gits have a potential niche there but Tankbustas are weirdly just a much better TAC choice.

I agree that the two units have different juicy targets BUT tankbustas lost so much with 9th edition rules as they can't have access to their re-rolls and DDD while embarked. Without re-rolls they're an utterly overpriced unit and in the open they're way more squishy than gitz. Only way to make TB worhty is to bring a BM patrol, tellyport them and let them fire twice. Of course max unit to justify the investment in CPs. 315 points and 6 CPs, surely not a cheap combo.

But 17ppm boyz with rokkit in transports are trash unless they get their re-rolls back. Flash gitz also lose something while embarked but not that much.

https://spikeybits.com/2020/08/top-3-9th-edition-40k-army-lists-warzone-giga-bites-iv.html

Is anyone willing to type down these two lists for the first post?

miscNouns wrote:
I was thinking about trying out the Goff list that placed recently (https://spikeybits.com/2020/08/top-3-9th-edition-40k-army-lists-warzone-giga-bites-iv.html). What could I use to replace the smasha guns? I know I need some antitank but I'm not sure if I want to drop the money on mek gunz quite yet

One Trukk kit plus some random scrap (electrical wire, old spark plugs from my mechanic, some plasticard tube) gives you three Mek Gunz.

I ordered some civil war toys from the US which roughly match the mek gun size. Since I no longer need my 60 gretchin for troops, I might finally get to properly orking them up

I've played a few more games with my list from a few pages back, and have been trying some things out like rokkits on boys, big shootas on the gunwagon, etc. Mostly playing in against primaris ultras, dark angels, death guard and gsc (this is without the new MEQ +1 wound change). Can't remember how many I played, but I won more often than not.

I've settled on this list for the moment:



Things I've learned:
A bare bones unit of kommandos is definitely worth keeping in your back pocket to just creep onto an objective mid to late game to tip the scales in your favour. Won me a few games on their own to be honest.

The points spent on giving boys rokkits wasnt worth it. Even with the DS reroll it's still 10 points apiece for a shot that's more than likely not going anywhere. Same with the big shootas on the gunwagon; just not worth the points.

Opportunist on the defftrike with Gorks Roar is faaaaar better in this list than the redeployment one on the warboss. Sniping characters has also pulled the scales in my favour on a few occasions, whether it be by killing them or knocking a load of wounds off that other units then clear up. The redeployment one was making me play lazy and rely on the redeploy rather than just deploying smart in the first place.


The last handful of points I was considering putting a rigger on the third wagon to compensate the lack of an invuln. Thoughts on riggers?

 Afrodactyl wrote:
The last handful of points I was considering putting a rigger on the third wagon to compensate the lack of an invuln. Thoughts on riggers?

In my opinion, it's a good investment on a forktress or gunwagon, other battlewagons tend to disappear too fast for the 5 points to pay off.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

The last handful of points I was considering putting a rigger on the third wagon to compensate the lack of an invuln. Thoughts on riggers?

If you have a few spared points why not? We don't have many options to make good use of the spared points when we reach 1980-1995 points after listing the units we want to play. If you need to shave off something just to fit the riggers upgrade then no, leave it home.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Friendly games by all means ignore it, i am as like i said its a very obvious oversight. Its also an oversight that literally only affects orks, as only eldar/darkeldar have opentopped transports besides orks and they lack any rules that would actually be affected by this (what they do have specifically mentions in a transport)

Tournaments, its in the rules and is very clear so dont expect to get to use it unless you contact the TO first about it. This is, after all, a competitive talk thread so tournaments are in mind.

I mean, Dark Eldar and Harlequins can both play against enemy armies that have rules that give -1 to hit...

....If no "Within X Inches" ability applies while units are within a transport because they aren't on the battlefield, then why does Alaitoc's "Outside X Inches" ability apply? Heck, why does the "Splinter Racks" upgrade I bought on my Raider apply? - that's a rule. It seems pretty dang straightforward: You can't be targeted by psychic powers or stratagems, you can be affected by the current movement/engagement status of your transport and any modifiers affecting the transport affect the passengers.

So when a piece of dense cover terrain is between the transport and the target, the transport is at -1 to hit, the passengers are at -1 to hit.

When the transport is 14" away from an Alaitoc eldar target, the transport is -1 to hit, the passengers are -1 to hit.

When the transport is 18" away from a Freebootas model that kills an enemy model, the transport is +1 to hit, the passengers are +1 to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
I ordered some civil war toys from the US which roughly match the mek gun size. Since I no longer need my 60 gretchin for troops, I might finally get to properly orking them up

Battalion Detachment Deffskullz

HQ: Warboss, Killa Klaw, Biggest Boss (-1CP)

HQ: Weirdboy, Warphead (-1CP)

Troops: 9 shoota boyz, Killsaw nob

Troops: 10 shoota boyz, Killsaw nob (Blasts be damned apparently!)

Troops: 10 shoota boyz, Killsaw nob

Troops: 10 shoota boyz, Killsaw nob

Troops: 10 Gretchin

Troops: 10 Gretchin

Elites: 4 Kommandos, Power Klaw Nob

Elites: 4 Kommandos, Power Klaw Nob

Elites: 4 Kommandos, Power Klaw Nob

Fast: 3x Kustom Boosta-Blastas

Fast: 3x Shokkjump Dragstas

Fast: 3x Megatrakk Skrapjets

Dedicated: Trukk

Dedicated: Trukk

Dedicated: Trukk

Dedicated: Trukk

1st place army

Battalion Goffs

HQ: Ghazghkull

HQ: Big Mek with KFF, Grot Oiler

HQ: Warboss, Attack Squig, Kombi-Rokkit, Brutal But Kunnin, Killa Klaw

Troops: 29x Choppa Boyz, Power Klaw Nob

Troops: 29x Choppa Boyz, Power Klaw Nob

Troops: 28x Choppa Boyz, Power Klaw Nob

Elites: 5x Meganobz, Power Klaws

Elites: 5x Meganobz, Power Klaws

Elites: Waaaagh Banner Nob

Heavy: Smasha Gun


Heavy: Smasha Gun


Heavy: Smasha Gun

Patrol Detachment Goffs

HQ: Weirdboy (Warphead)

Troops: 10x Gretchin