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If you have 18 SMG, there will be no space for any reserves coming from the flank. You are able to screen your deploy with 5-6 of them. With 18, you will screen half of the field

With the recent swathe of FAQ's being released, there's a lot of stuff being shaken up in terms of the changes to factions that had PA's and were rolled into the main codex.

Main highlights for me:

Expect to see more Dark Angel terminators (specifically the SS or Deathwing Knight variety). They now have Transhuman Physiology built into their rules. Makes them incredibly difficult to budge off of objectives since they make attacking them with heavy weapons less viable while the SS helps mitigate higher rate of fire weapons. For us, spamming more Smasha Gunz seems to be the primary solution, since we can bypass the wounding limitation.

I don't expect to see too much Deathwatch compared to guys like Salamanders, but in those cases be wary of their update to their SIA, since Vengeance rounds now deal +1D rather than extra AP, meaning that stuff like buggies and other multi-wound models with have to tread more carefully.

Notable that two major killy units (I think Wulfen got buffed to T5) Wulfen and Death Company, have rules that no longer allow them to perform actions. This limits some of the things they can do in like deploying scramblers/teleporters, so make sure your opponent doesn't cheese you by accident or knowingly, since they are aggressive units and will likely aim for the center or backfield. Death Company notably cannot choose to Fall Back, so that can be used to your potential advantage if you don't want to get shot if they've been whittled down enough.

I'm expecting to see a fair bit of Wulfen Dreadnoughts with Blizzard Shields as well, between that and -1 damage, they can help to clear center objectives while being annoying to deal with.

I kind of agree with you, I think green tide is gonna bounce hard off of a Gravis tide. They just clear too much stuff off and str 4 boys aren't gonna do anything. Even Skarboys now wound on 4s.
And frankly, I believe SM now have multiple ways of giving Gravis elites Obsec (warlord trait and litany I believe?), so you can't even steal objectives off of them easily.

I think the buggy list remains to be seen. We really do have a lot of guns that just clean up Gravis models -- any failed save with a rocket is a dead model (minus that mandatory apothecary).

14 buggies is still going to be super annoying to kill. We can still tellyporta 3 of them for 2 CP, and drop a ton of shots down before we get retaliated. I think you'll start seeing buggy lists hide half of their models in reserve while the other half hides behind terrain. Frankly, if I get the first engagement, or I can limit the initial blunt, the buggies might actually win that.

Orks overlooked for the armory updates. It was a relatively safe assumption to make that our wargear which was directly equivalent to the Imperial wargear which was getting updated would be updated as well - Power Klaws, Skorchas, Power Stabbas, and a case could have been made for Burnas getting the range increase to 12" as well. But, nothing.

Is it simply an oversight or a sign that we are frontloaded for a codex update that will address these anyways? That's probably wishful thinking.

Madjob wrote:
Orks overlooked for the armory updates. It was a relatively safe assumption to make that our wargear which was directly equivalent to the Imperial wargear which was getting updated would be updated as well - Power Klaws, Skorchas, Power Stabbas, and a case could have been made for Burnas getting the range increase to 12" as well. But, nothing.

Is it simply an oversight or a sign that we are frontloaded for a codex update that will address these anyways? That's probably wishful thinking.

Apparently this update was mainly for Imperials/Chaos? I kinda question that given that some xenos things were already changed beyond just power swords, but it does seem like they won't bother addressing stats for Orks until our new book comes around.

I'm more interested to see if they'll bother doing anything to Big Shootas, since they're effectively our analogue to the Heavy Bolter. I personally don't quite see it becoming D2, but at the very least it should have more shots and/or AP-1.

Certainly curious as well, with how many units are packed with big shootas even minor changes on them would have big affects on the ork roster.

They said in a community article exotic xeno weapons would have to wait for the codex.

But it looks like Orks may be sooner than later.

CSM didn´t get the wounds update either, so they´re in a strange limbo of new guns but old durability. Honestly I didn't expect much to happen to us though.

Madjob wrote:
Orks overlooked for the armory updates. It was a relatively safe assumption to make that our wargear which was directly equivalent to the Imperial wargear which was getting updated would be updated as well - Power Klaws, Skorchas, Power Stabbas, and a case could have been made for Burnas getting the range increase to 12" as well. But, nothing.

Is it simply an oversight or a sign that we are frontloaded for a codex update that will address these anyways? That's probably wishful thinking.

It's not an oversight, they merely updated weapons that appeared in Codex:Space Marines and absolutely nothing else. For example, for DG all the plague weapon flamers remained at 8", plague swords and bubotic axes did not receive the treatment as power swords and axes, and so on. Besides the multi-melta on MBH and plasma no longer exploding when aimed at planes the update is pretty irrelevant to them.
Likewise, eldar only got their flamers and powerswords updated while their scorpion claw (their version of a PF) didn't. If they have had "banshee swords" instead of "power swords" they would not have received anything either.

It's very much what was both expected and communicated.


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cody.d. wrote:
Certainly curious as well, with how many units are packed with big shootas even minor changes on them would have big affects on the ork roster.

Battlewagons, scrapjets and nauts all (can) have tons of big shootas, and I wouldn't be sad if they became a decent option for boyz again. Doubling their shots would not be the worst idea.

So, with Ghazzies unique selling point now turning out to be an infectious "no you can't just kill it" disease spreading to the C'tan (and no doubt ultimately to other big scaries in the game), what are peoples thoughts for countering it?

It looks like the only reliable way to take the Void Dragon down is to inflct 6 wounds per turns, over 2 phases. This is because he can regain wounds for attacking vehicles, up to 3 per turn(or it may be 3 per phase), and can only lose 3 wounds per phase - so if you only do 3 wounds, chances are he's getting them back!

I'm considering bringing a Weirdboy in most lists now to throw some smite wounds at the enemy in the psychic phase. I don't think we have anything which hurts in the movement phase (when are bombs resolved from bombas? I've never run one so can't recall!). Weirdboys are our only psychic phase damage output, and then we have decent shooting (only one rokkit has to go through to max him out that phase) and CC capability.

I haven't got my rulebook handy - are Charges and Fighting separate phases? If so then that's 2 more chances to inflict wounds, as we deal mortal wounds from a lot of sources when we charge.

I could see a lot of characters (specifically special characters) getting some degree of this protection - I'd almost like to see them get cover for all but one wound, just to stop named characters from getting one-shotted - so if a named character has 6 wounds, then they can't lose more than 5 wounds in one phase. But that's just speculation!

Madjob wrote:
Orks overlooked for the armory updates. It was a relatively safe assumption to make that our wargear which was directly equivalent to the Imperial wargear which was getting updated would be updated as well - Power Klaws, Skorchas, Power Stabbas, and a case could have been made for Burnas getting the range increase to 12" as well. But, nothing.

Is it simply an oversight or a sign that we are frontloaded for a codex update that will address these anyways? That's probably wishful thinking.

They told already in AUGUST this would only be the imperial weapon updates. Chaos marine stats and all xenos weapons etc come with new codexes. Suck yes but this wasn't surprise as we have known of it for nearly 2 months now.

Sucks that orks have to be behind the power curve but luckily means just because weapon didn't get upgraded now doesn't mean it's not being upgraded in codex. So the Q is how long wait for the new codex?

SW lost access to all their +1A auras, and apparently the fighting twice general stratagem was removed as well. Maybe ghaz's aura will get a new version.

SM and few around are the only, who have a 9th codex. And chapter codexes are very much connected to the general SM codex. So they' ve got their FAQ. Chaos and xenos mostly do not have the 9th codexes so they do not have a FAQ. What is strange about it?

I do not expect the ork 9th codex sooner than autumn 2021. The reasons are pretty simple:

- new codex will have the promo for about 4 month in advance before available to buy at least Have you seen anything? No. So relax.

- we was one of the last codexes in 8th. So why shall we be the first in 9th? And skip SM because - you know why

- If they shoot out all codexes too fast, what would they sell next couple of years? Hmm? It takes no less than 2-3 years before most of the 9th codexes come out. Othwervise they should make a 10th to have new rules to sell.

- we' ve got a very nice buff in PA book. We have a pretty solid army now. And we are not the most important from the business side of view. So why invest an afford in such army now? Have you all bought 12 buggies already? Have you seen Ghazz as a separate model to buy on GW. I guess no....

- new Ork codex will be in October. Because Orktober. No doubt about it...

I won' t be surprise, if the new ork codex comes in abuot 2-3 years.

But maybe, I' m wrong. Mork' s know...

We seen what appears to be a previewed ork model.. which is 1 of the 6 previews they showed... I’d expect us to get a book early 2021.

Regardless orks are okay with dealing wounds in multi phases
movement phase-
Burnabombs, eadbutt and wildfire, squig mine, boom bombs, snagga grapple

Psychic phase- weirdboy

Shooting- lots

Charge phase- scrapjet, Garg squiggoth, squiggoth, ramming speed

Assault-lots

That ability does make the burna bomba even more useful to have.

Psychic is tough because it’ll be easy for them to screen for smite. Weirdboys are slow.

I think the key will be shooting-> ramming speed / buggy charge -> assault. I think orks can 1 round a C’Tan if we use our charge phase mortals. Charge multiple scrap jets with one using ramming speed.

Edit: burna bomber is nice too but will require you to keep stripping wounds off so it doesn’t regenerate

tulun wrote:
Psychic is tough because it’ll be easy for them to screen for smite. Weirdboys are slow.

I think the key will be shooting-> ramming speed / buggy charge -> assault. I think orks can 1 round a C’Tan if we use our charge phase mortals. Charge multiple scrap jets with one using ramming speed.

Edit: burna bomber is nice too but will require you to keep stripping wounds off so it doesn’t regenerate

Burna bomb and eadbutt can easily get 3 Mortals with no invul in movement
Shooting can get 3
And if you are able to charge with squiggoths or scrap Jets you can get 3 mortals plus ramming speed mortals if needed
Assault as well...
Psychic I agree is weak but it’s an option most have in lists still..

Basically we can do 9 wounds in a turn better then most armies.

I agree with gungo. And it's not like they appear in your face turn 1, you'll probably have more than one turn to kill them.

 Jidmah wrote:
I agree with gungo. And it's not like they appear in your face turn 1, you'll probably have more than one turn to kill them.

furthermore it's only got a 12" shooting range. It shouldn't be that hard to keep most vehicles out of its shooting range to deny it healing.

tneva82 wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Orks overlooked for the armory updates. It was a relatively safe assumption to make that our wargear which was directly equivalent to the Imperial wargear which was getting updated would be updated as well - Power Klaws, Skorchas, Power Stabbas, and a case could have been made for Burnas getting the range increase to 12" as well. But, nothing.

Is it simply an oversight or a sign that we are frontloaded for a codex update that will address these anyways? That's probably wishful thinking.

They told already in AUGUST this would only be the imperial weapon updates. Chaos marine stats and all xenos weapons etc come with new codexes. Suck yes but this wasn't surprise as we have known of it for nearly 2 months now.

Sucks that orks have to be behind the power curve but luckily means just because weapon didn't get upgraded now doesn't mean it's not being upgraded in codex. So the Q is how long wait for the new codex?

I'd be 100% in understanding of that, but for the fact that they did update the dragon's breath flamer - which is in all but name a heavy flamer, and the name seems to be the only distinction GW is making everywhere else but there.

They also didn't update the two meltas on the very same datasheet as the flamer. We don't know why they decided to make this one excepting, it might very well have been an accident. In any case, it's hardly something worth getting angry over, especially not in the ork tactics thread.

For once, I agree with tneva, we xenos were told that we would not get an update, and if you expected anything else you have no one but yourself to blame.

gungo wrote:

tulun wrote:
Psychic is tough because it’ll be easy for them to screen for smite. Weirdboys are slow.

I think the key will be shooting-> ramming speed / buggy charge -> assault. I think orks can 1 round a C’Tan if we use our charge phase mortals. Charge multiple scrap jets with one using ramming speed.

Edit: burna bomber is nice too but will require you to keep stripping wounds off so it doesn’t regenerate

Burna bomb and eadbutt can easily get 3 Mortals with no invul in movement
Shooting can get 3
And if you are able to charge with squiggoths or scrap Jets you can get 3 mortals plus ramming speed mortals if needed
Assault as well...
Psychic I agree is weak but it’s an option most have in lists still..

Basically we can do 9 wounds in a turn better then most armies.

I think you wanna avoid weirdboys in general, though. In a lot of lists they don't really synergize well, and having abhor the witch is really good in a lot of matchups anyway.

But yeah I think Orks are actually not super scared of C'Tan as long as you have your pocket mortal wounds in the charge or movement phase. Just keep your characters away from that Gaze attack. Ghaz should be terrified of the Nightbringer, though. Yikes.

 Jidmah wrote:


Battlewagons, scrapjets and nauts all (can) have tons of big shootas, and I wouldn't be sad if they became a decent option for boyz again. Doubling their shots would not be the worst idea.

What is the new price for heavy bolters? I can't imagine they stay at 10ppm with Damage 2 now?

regardless, 5pts for a Big shoota was always a bad investment, if it doubles to 6 shots...maybe, but even then its a tough call. S5 6 shots is 2.16 hits and against gravis which I think is the majority of what we will end up facing its 1.08 wounds or .36ish dmg a turn, not exactly worth writing home about. Cheapest you can run a big shoota is on a boyz mob, and it takes 9 of them to kill 1 primaris marine so you are talking about 117pts of boyz + big shootas to kill 1 T5 Marine. its its a free upgrade and they don't raise the price? absolutely! if they increase the price its not worth it because realistically the big shoota is a tax on a lot of units as it is. Would you take a Big shoota on a trukk or rather save 5pts? How about saving 20pts on the Scrapjet and taking away the 2 TL big shootas? (Granted half of them are BS4)

As far as taking down the Void dragon dude. Not that hard for us, in fact, we are probably the best faction to do multiple damage in multiple phases. I ran into this problem in my campaign a few months back, I kept running into the ork player who was bringing Ghaz. 3 Scrapjets take easily 4 wounds in the shooting phase, in the charge phase they do 3D3 mortal wounds on a 4+ and if I was really worried you pop ramming speed for another D3 on a 2+. In the assault phase those same 3 scrapjets do 4 more wounds. easymode.

 Jidmah wrote:

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cody.d. wrote:
Certainly curious as well, with how many units are packed with big shootas even minor changes on them would have big affects on the ork roster.

Battlewagons, scrapjets and nauts all (can) have tons of big shootas, and I wouldn't be sad if they became a decent option for boyz again. Doubling their shots would not be the worst idea.

Yeah, having them as a cheap, low quality bullet hose would be fun I think. Though our anti light infantry is already pretty solid. I'd enjoy a strength or AP boost honestly. But then again, we're thinking from a point of view of having things work well across the codex. Has GW ever really designed things like that?

Very interesting analysis on Goonhammer https://www.goonhammer.com/the-october-2020-40k-meta-review/

1) Orks seems to be Tier 1 army.
2) Buggy list has a really serious problem with secondaries, because it gives enemy full 15 VP in Bring it down + 10-15 VP in Grind them down. Goonhammer stats show, we' re loosing on secondaries and giving a lot of the VP in secondaries to enemies. And we all know why - buggies and mek gunz and eadbutting planes. Tons of vehicles exploding and burning down every turn. Well, it' s fun, but it cost us a secondaries.
3) Orks are sucesfull on primaries.
4) weirdboy is a trap. Abhorn the witch seems to be very common and very effective. Like Jidmah said month ago already....

If your only taking 1 psycher how is abhor the witch bad it limits your opponent to 5vp.

gungo wrote:
If your only taking 1 psycher how is abhor the witch bad it limits your opponent to 5vp.

Yeah, I don't see many lists taking more than one weirdboy usually. If your opponent chooses that rather than other more efficient secondaries I'd call that a win.

 Grimskul wrote:

gungo wrote:
If your only taking 1 psycher how is abhor the witch bad it limits your opponent to 5vp.

Yeah, I don't see many lists taking more than one weirdboy usually. If your opponent chooses that rather than other more efficient secondaries I'd call that a win.

This. I would be tempted to include just 1 weirdboy just to try to tempt opponent

If I'm going to cap myself to maximum 10 is okay like deploy scramblers. With 5 I better be sure to win on primaries. Grind them down, bring 'em down. Leaves 1 slot. Who can't score at least 6 on engage on all front? So why would one pick abhor the witch for 5 when one can take engage on all front and take easy 6(8-10 possible without even good army for engage).

You want no psykers so you can take it.

In some matchups, this is basically just 15 free VPs.

Exactly. Weirdboy is a trap because YOU can’t take Abhorn. And YOU are the guy who have a serious lack of secondaries to pass on 10+ VP. And Goonhammer stats confirm that there is a lot of opponents have a bunch of psykers makes easy for you to score full 15VP. Abhorn is the second most scoring secondarie and third best in “how offten you pass max”. Off cours your local meta could be.... but stat is quite clear.

Interesting is, the our favourite Engage / Linebreaker and Scramblers also works fine. But the well known lack of the third one is obvious.

What is interesting for me is, that couple of Mission secondaries works also very well. I have to check them more carefuly and makes some planning.


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A) Interesting is, that if you want to deprive enemy on secondaries, you will have to compose a type of army, we have not seen yet - do it like a SM = low unit count of specific type - durable elit inf and super durable vehicles and large bunch of bikes.

So something like Nauts, Wagonz, bikers, MANz.... does it worth to build army around this?

B) Another conclusion is, that we can’ t be good at secondaries, so skip it and do max on primaries. Which means gain them and PREVENT enemy to gain them to balance our troubles on secondaries. Which in fact means that you need to make the enemy to hold about ONE objective per turn. Because if he holds 2 per turn in 5 obj game, he still have 45 VP. Oour goal could be to keep him on 5VP per turn. Sounds pretty easy

SemperMortis wrote:


What is the new price for heavy bolters? I can't imagine they stay at 10ppm with Damage 2 now?

It actually became cheaper. Still 10 for infantries but now 10, instead of 15, also for vehicles.


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 Tomsug wrote:
Exactly. Weirdboy is a trap because YOU can’t take Abhorn. And YOU are the guy who have a serious lack of secondaries to pass on 10+ VP. And Goonhammer stats confirm that there is a lot of opponents have a bunch of psykers makes easy for you to score full 15VP. Abhorn is the second most scoring secondarie and third best in “how offten you pass max”. Off cours your local meta could be.... but stat is quite clear.

Weirdboy outside horde style isn't particularly solid anyway.

 Tomsug wrote:

So something like Nauts, Wagonz, bikers, MANz.... does it worth to build army around this?

Generally speaking I'd avoid skew lists. 12 buggies sounds good now but if they get nerfed your entire list gets nerfed. A tournament player of course will always chase the flavour of the month but everyone else should be fine with more balanced lists. So nauts, wagons, bikers, manz and other T5+ units all have good synergies.