We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Grimskul**

Tomsug wrote:
Bonde, Scactha is right you have not enought of punch power. Too many chopas. You need more klaws and saws. Or at least big choppas. Look at his list - MANz and pk nob bikers.

Honestly nowaday I have a feeling that boyz are here to die protecting the nob with saw/pk, not to kill something significant.

Ironically, that was how Ork boyz were mainly used in previous editions, as PK Nob protectors effectively. Weird how things are starting to come full circle. I would say that the Ork boy overall still does more than the Nob in most instances, but they're definitely less relevant with the plethora of multiwound 3+ save models. I'd argue the value of boyz is less for offensive value and more for just area denial in this edition.

**Beardedragon**

Hey guys.

I just played a game where i wanted to reroll my charge, and my opponent says i have to reroll both die.

I know you often have to reroll both die in 9th edition but my codex still states i can reroll only 1 die if i please. Because obviously it was made for 8th.

But which of the two is correct? Can i reroll only 1 die if i want (or both) or do i HAVE to reroll both die for a charge reroll?

**Grimskul**

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys.

I just played a game where i wanted to reroll my charge, and my opponent says i have to reroll both die.

I know you often have to reroll both die in 9th edition but my codex still states i can reroll only 1 die if i please. Because obviously it was made for 8th.

But which of the two is correct? Can i reroll only 1 die if i want (or both) or do i HAVE to reroll both die for a charge reroll?

If you are using a unit with the 'Ere We Go! special rule, then you are allowed to reroll one or both dice for charges. If you are using the command reroll stratagem for a unit that does not have it the 'Ere We Go! special rule, then you must reroll both dice for the charge.

**Jidmah**

What Grimskul said. Many people who don't play orks are confused by this because being able to re-roll one or both is actually quite rare.

When in doubt, just point them to your codex.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
What Grimskul said. Many people who don't play orks are confused by this because being able to re-roll one or both is actually quite rare.

When in doubt, just point them to your codex.

i did but he said the codex was written before 9th edition rule that meant all rerolls of several die should be both die...

Also he attacked my Chinork warkopta in melee. I understand that its not a dedicated flyer, since its dedicated transport, but can you really hit the Chinork with melee units? thats just lazy writing, geez. its a damn helicopter.

**Diakos**

Beardedragon wrote:

i did but he said the codex was written before 9th edition rule that meant all rerolls of several die should be both die...

Ask him to point to where in the Ork FAQ it says you must reroll both.

**Grimskul**

Beardedragon wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
What Grimskul said. Many people who don't play orks are confused by this because being able to re-roll one or both is actually quite rare.

When in doubt, just point them to your codex.

i did but he said the codex was written before 9th edition rule that meant all rerolls of several die should be both die...

Also he attacked my Chinork warkopta in melee. I understand that its not a dedicated flyer, since its dedicated transport, but can you really hit the Chinork with melee units? thats just lazy writing, geez. its a damn helicopter.

He's trying to game you then. By that logic, you can't play with any codex that isn't Necrons and SM, since all of those other codices were designed for 8th. Look no further than Custodes being able to get a 3++ save with relics or their storm shields, does that mean they don't get that as well?

Also, he can charge it. Just like you can charge deffkoptas. The only aircraft that has protection from charging is having the bespoke Airborne rule.

**Beardedragon**

Well thanks for the help. Ill be adamant about keeping my 1 die re roll for charges.

I still think its silly that you can charge a helicopter. This thing doesnt exactly fly 2 meters above ground.. or at least that wouldnt make sense

**cody.d.**

I mean, you can say the same for any vehicle that can fly or hover. Eldar vehicles are noted to be moving at incredible speeds but some grot can still take a swing. Same thing with Land Speeders who really zip around.

It'd honestly be really, really annoying if you couldn't assault them. It'd cut out massive portions of armies from being able to deal with them.

**Beardedragon**

cody.d. wrote:
I mean, you can say the same for any vehicle that can fly or hover. Eldar vehicles are noted to be moving at incredible speeds but some grot can still take a swing. Same thing with Land Speeders who really zip around.

It'd honestly be really, really annoying if you couldn't assault them. It'd cut out massive portions of armies from being able to deal with them.

Eldar vehicles hover.. a helicopter literally flies around in the air.

But it is what it is. Sadly my goff army lost to Space wolves Today.

**cody.d.**

But how high do they hover exactly? Has there ever been any confirmation of their limits or has it always been fairly nebulous, whatever the author needs at the time?

Most of the art we see is several metres off the ground, way out of reach of some ponse holding a sword in his hands.

Also, aren't hover and flight synonyms?

**Vineheart01**

Codex > Main rules when theres a conflict between the two.

Orks can reroll 1 or more dice. Technically they can reroll 2 of the 3 in Ramming Speed too.

**Grimskul**

cody.d. wrote:
But how high do they hover exactly? Has there ever been any confirmation of their limits or has it always been fairly nebulous, whatever the author needs at the time?

Most of the art we see is several metres off the ground, way out of reach of some ponse holding a sword in his hands.

Also, aren't hover and flight synonyms?

Yeah, I've seen several cases in art where Tau Hammerheads/Devilfish as well as Eldar Wave Serpents can go as high as into the sky briefly, so you have to remember the game is an abstraction. Otherwise it makes no sense why a grot blasta would have a chance to damage a Warlord Titan.

**cody.d.**

Grimskul wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
But how high do they hover exactly? Has there ever been any confirmation of their limits or has it always been fairly nebulous, whatever the author needs at the time?

Most of the art we see is several metres off the ground, way out of reach of some ponse holding a sword in his hands.

Also, aren't hover and flight synonyms?

Yeah, I've seen several cases in art where Tau Hammerheads/Devilfish as well as Eldar Wave Serpents can go as high as into the sky briefly, so you have to remember the game is an abstraction. Otherwise it makes no sense why a grot blasta would have a chance to damage a Warlord Titan.

The grot blasta I like to imagine being akin to getting sand in the inner workings of a firearm. A little chunk of metal getting into the wrong gears or pistons would be enough to cause issues eventually.

But yeah, you're right in regards to abstract gameplay mechanics making little sense or even creating hilarious scenarios in world. Like when the Grabba klaw in previous editions could work on flyers and stop them from moving. And cause a flyer crashes if it can't move you get the image of this little truck launching a grappling hook at a plane and causing it to do a Wile E Coyote and slam right into the ground.

**Beardedragon**

Well thanks for the help. Ill be adamant about keeping my 1 die re roll for charges.

I still think its silly that you can charge a helicopter. This thing doesnt exactly fly 2 meters above ground.. or at least that wouldnt make sense

**Moriarty**

I can understand - my Mob Boss wi PK Assaulting a Marine Flying Brick always amuses me. I’m tempted to model him a set of ladders, or a trampette :-)

Don’t worry too much - remember your faction is Orks. Their whole rationale plays Fast & Loose with the Rules of Physics & Comedy.

**Scactha**

It gets murky at once when you try to implement sense into gaming. When playing my fav Kultur Blood Axes, I often employ Dead Sneaky' Manz. There´s a mental picture that doesn´t really form well either

**AarresaariAarre**

What do you generally aim your Da Boomer's at? It obviously shines even more now that all marines are more expensive and have 2 wounds, but against armies that don't have such obvious targets, what do you think hands out the most reward? Do you prefer light vehicles, elites with invuls or even hordes?

**Beardedragon**

Beardedragon wrote:
Well thanks for the help. Ill be adamant about keeping my 1 die re roll for charges.

I still think its silly that you can charge a helicopter. This thing doesnt exactly fly 2 meters above ground.. or at least that wouldnt make sense

why is my message sent twice? thats weird.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scactha wrote:
It gets murky at once when you try to implement sense into gaming. When playing my fav Kultur Blood Axes, I often employ Dead Sneaky' Manz. There´s a mental picture that doesn´t really form well either

Yea but because of my "realism in tabletop" i was completely blind to the fact that the Chinork can actually contest and interact with quite a few objectives.

Like the secondary "Raze", that doesnt require infantry, you just cant be "Aircraft". I didnt raze anything with my chinork because i had told myself: Hey, this is surely an aircraft as its a helicopter, so i cant interact with many of these secondaries that dont require infantry".

Basically my chinork is a large grav tank and i need to play it as such. It kinda opens up a few possibilities but also issues as im now fully aware of the fact my chopper can be destroyed in melee combat.

**Jidmah**

AarresaariAarre wrote:
What do you generally aim your Da Boomer's at? It obviously shines even more now that all marines are more expensive and have 2 wounds, but against armies that don't have such obvious targets, what do you think hands out the most reward? Do you prefer light vehicles, elites with invuls or even hordes?

Usually vehicles/monsters, then units of 11+ models, then 2W infantry, then stuff I need gone for whatever reason. It's good against pretty much everything but small units of single-wound infantry, so often I shoot it as one of the first units to see if it rolls high and then finish off its target or switch when it doesn't. Alternatively, I use it to plonk off the last wounds of something that the buggies have failed to kill when there isn't much choice of what needs to die.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Yea but because of my "realism in tabletop" i was completely blind to the fact that the Chinork can actually contest and interact with quite a few objectives.

Like the secondary "Raze", that doesnt require infantry, you just cant be "Aircraft". I didnt raze anything with my chinork because i had told myself: Hey, this is surely an aircraft as its a helicopter, so i cant interact with many of these secondaries that dont require infantry".

Due to the FAQ, the chinork has the AIRCRAFT keyword which prevents it from contesting objectives. It's also likely that giving it this keyword was an oversight and not intended.

In general, the chinork is just a larger variant of the deff kopta, so it flies just above ground. See below for the page on them in the book that originally introduced them as "Warkoptas".

Spoiler:

**AarresaariAarre**

Jidmah wrote:
[
Usually vehicles/monsters, then units of 11+ models, then 2W infantry, then stuff I need gone for whatever reason. It's good against pretty much everything but small units of single-wound infantry, so often I shoot it as one of the first units to see if it rolls high and then finish off its target or switch when it doesn't. Alternatively, I use it to plonk off the last wounds of something that the buggies have failed to kill when there isn't much choice of what needs to die.

I too love the ability to shoot once for a test and then decide if I want to switch targets. I just wish big shootas were free/had more bang so that I could use them to finish off the odd stuff. Btw, don't you think that shooting at vehicles/monsters sorta collides with what Mek Gunz are doing for cheaper?

**tneva82**

Beardedragon wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
What Grimskul said. Many people who don't play orks are confused by this because being able to re-roll one or both is actually quite rare.

When in doubt, just point them to your codex.

i did but he said the codex was written before 9th edition rule that meant all rerolls of several die should be both die...

Also he attacked my Chinork warkopta in melee. I understand that its not a dedicated flyer, since its dedicated transport, but can you really hit the Chinork with melee units? thats just lazy writing, geez. its a damn helicopter.

Ask him to show rule from rulebook saying so. There's no rule that prevents only one. In fact quoting 9th ed core rules:

Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get
to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a
dice roll that was made by adding several dice together (2D6, 3D6
etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must re-roll all of those
dice again.

So as we can see rules make allowance of rerolling only some but not all. And furthermore it says that default is all must be rolled unless otherwise stated. Now just point to your codex. It clearly is saying otherwise.

Nothing like being able to show actual rule for the opponent

Page 5 of the basic rules btw. First words "measuring distances" on that page. Bottom right corner talks about rerolls.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
AarresaariAarre wrote:
What do you generally aim your Da Boomer's at? It obviously shines even more now that all marines are more expensive and have 2 wounds, but against armies that don't have such obvious targets, what do you think hands out the most reward? Do you prefer light vehicles, elites with invuls or even hordes?

Usually vehicles/monsters, then units of 11+ models, then 2W infantry, then stuff I need gone for whatever reason. It's good against pretty much everything but small units of single-wound infantry, so often I shoot it as one of the first units to see if it rolls high and then finish off its target or switch when it doesn't. Alternatively, I use it to plonk off the last wounds of something that the buggies have failed to kill when there isn't much choice of what needs to die.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Yea but because of my "realism in tabletop" i was completely blind to the fact that the Chinork can actually contest and interact with quite a few objectives.

Like the secondary "Raze", that doesnt require infantry, you just cant be "Aircraft". I didnt raze anything with my chinork because i had told myself: Hey, this is surely an aircraft as its a helicopter, so i cant interact with many of these secondaries that dont require infantry".

Due to the FAQ, the chinork has the AIRCRAFT keyword which prevents it from contesting objectives. It's also likely that giving it this keyword was an oversight and not intended.

In general, the chinork is just a larger variant of the deff kopta, so it flies just above ground. See below for the page on them in the book that originally introduced them as "Warkoptas".

Spoiler:

huh... So.. like where do i find all these FAQs :/? I feel like being a new player and trying to keep up with different rules is super difficult. So far my info comes from my codexes and Wahapedia which neither has it stated as an aircraft, so i didnt even know it was one.

EDIT:
Actually partly scrap that. Wahapedia now correctly calls it an aircraft too. i just screen copied the datasheets from wahapedia some time ago and back then it wasnt an aircraft, but i guess they changed it on wahapedia now too. My own prints simply didnt have that.

Good to know.

But if its an aircraft, does that mean it, once again, cant be attacked by melee? or does it have to state specifically if this is the case?

**tneva82**

warhammer-community.com has all the fa's.

**Blackie**

AarresaariAarre wrote:
What do you generally aim your Da Boomer's at? It obviously shines even more now that all marines are more expensive and have 2 wounds, but against armies that don't have such obvious targets, what do you think hands out the most reward? Do you prefer light vehicles, elites with invuls or even hordes?

T4 2W 3+ is the perfect target for Da Boomer.

I typically ignore T8 models, and most of the times even T7 ones, with orks firepower unless I'm firing rokkits or KMB equivalents. Our "anti tank" weapons aren't really that good against T8 2/3+ models of stuff with invulns since we don't get lots of hits from our weapons, then we have to wound and AP-2 isn't great at all. Da Boomer IMHO competes with Smasha Gunz in taking out heavy infantries. Killing 1-3 dudes or stripping half wounds off a light vehicle is better than doing 0-2 damage to a proper tank/monster.

For that reason I always go against light vehicels instead of tanks with Da Boomer, unless I really need to strip the last few wounds off a big thing or other particular scenarios. Gravis dudes or bikes are definitely a better target for Da Boomer than Repulsors, units with 4++ or other highly armored vehicles.

**tneva82**

-2 isn't that great except when target has inv save at which point -3 and -4 are pretty much irrelevant and even -2 is of dubious use. Bigger issue is not that much hits coming in.

**Beardedragon**

tneva82 wrote:
warhammer-community.com has all the fa's.

thanks bud.

That reminds me, what units in the ork army would be best for assassinating pesky reroll Space marine captains?

I feel like quite a lot of enemy lords (apparently most except orkish characters) can reroll basically everything, so i figured id try and take them out quickly. hitting them with ranged attacks is probably going to be difficult due to lookout sir rule, but that rule doesnt matter if i can charge him i believe? So is there a unit that can effectively move far and hit well enough to kill a space marine captain character guy, and probably die while being worth it for me? doesnt have to be turn one but that wouldnt be too bad.

I was thinking maybe a few Deffkoptas since they are cheap, Megatrakk scrapjet or even Shokkjump dragstas? I own neither of these units so know little of their effectiveness.

Maybe if he hasnt fully screened out everywhere i can shokkjump 1 or 2 dragstas behind enemy lines, shoot if i can find a place where the captain is my closest target and stratagem jump back to safety again. I dont know.

Any ideas to assassinating characters so i dont need to worry too much about their reroll shinanigans and what not?

**cody.d.**

Beardedragon wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
warhammer-community.com has all the fa's.

thanks bud.

That reminds me, what units in the ork army would be best for assassinating pesky reroll Space marine captains?

I feel like quite a lot of enemy lords (apparently most except orkish characters) can reroll basically everything, so i figured id try and take them out quickly. hitting them with ranged attacks is probably going to be difficult due to lookout sir rule, but that rule doesnt matter if i can charge him i believe? So is there a unit that can effectively move far and hit well enough to kill a space marine captain character guy, and probably die while being worth it for me? doesnt have to be turn one but that wouldnt be too bad.

I was thinking maybe a few Deffkoptas since they are cheap, Megatrakk scrapjet or even Shokkjump dragstas? I own neither of these units so know little of their effectiveness.

Maybe if he hasnt fully screened out everywhere i can shokkjump 1 or 2 dragstas behind enemy lines, shoot if i can find a place where the captain is my closest target and stratagem jump back to safety again. I dont know.

Any ideas to assassinating characters so i dont need to worry too much about their reroll shinanigans and what not?

Personally I'm fond of the one two punch of a pair of flyers. One burna bomma to use flying headbutt from the front then a Wazbom from behind to finish the job. Most marine level characters should drop to that. Though this is an investment that should be used for lynchpins only.

**Tomsug**

I used what Cody is describeing. T1 burna eadbutt and park the wazboom next to character and finish him.

In my experience, you have pretty nice chance kill also the landspeeder characters this way (like raven wing bla bla guyz) but don ´ t be surpraised if you miss, few bad rolls and....

It is so crazy move, you have a chance to surprise even pretty advanced player.

**Bonde**

Scactha wrote:
Strangely enough have both me and AarresaariAarre met the same Necron strategy within a week of each other and discussed it a bit.

What´s your strategy with the list? I had a 1250 game with an assault force that hit him before he could reach the midline. It was delay enough for me to win on Primaries. The crux is to not get swallowed up by his line while also slowing him down. In my case I used terrain to split him into two parts, but that´s not a guarantee.

On the warriors I used a mix of KBB/Buring Highway and Deffkilla/Gork's Roar to weaken them enough for the assault team to stomp them. A crucial part there was the tag-team Defkilla+Nobz Bikes as these could charge T1. Sure the Nobz folded pretty quick, but then the followup Trukk and Manz+Warboss could continue the assault-tarpit action. So my message is to somehow stagger his advance asap. How, could be in a myriad of ways.

Looking at your list I´d send one Trukk full of Boyz forward and Ramming Speed it into their line T1. The BW would follow behind to draw fire and spill out the Warboss+Nobz next. The problem here is that the Nobz aren´t equipped to handle Necron Elite although the Warboss is. I believe they need better melee weapons than Choppas at least. All this is just a delay action so your other Trukk and Dreads can capture objectives and engage the rest of the Necrons. In the meanwhile the Gunwagon uses Visions to suppress and the Tankbustas react to whoever gets through the barrage. The final Boy mob guards the backline from deeping units.

As for changing stuff, maybe lose the 2nd Trukk for 2 Deathkoptas. They are good at capturing objectives and body blocking. Or shift the Weirdboy for the Painboy to go with the BW and keep the Warboss standing longer plus some extra durability to the Nobz.

There´s some ideas

My main problem was probably that I did not go into the game with a clear strategy. I should have gone as far forward turn 1 as possible and focused on taking two or three objectives away from my opponent. The challenge was that he already was on the objectives by 6" pre game move + 6" move + advance, and I didn't have the assault power to take the objectives away from him.
The regular Nobz do not have enough hitting power, and the Boyz can only take on Necron Warriors and similar units.
I think I'll drop a trukk and a deff dread, and add two deffkoptas instead to disrupt objectives. I'll give the Nobz some better melee weapons to improve their killing power and take a few more Boyz on foot. I'm still making up my mind regarding changing the Weirdboy to a painboy, as I'll be down to 1 HQ, so I wont have enough slots for heavy choices (and elite choices for that matter).

Tomsug wrote:
Bonde, Scactha is right you have not enought of punch power. Too many chopas. You need more klaws and saws. Or at least big choppas. Look at his list - MANz and pk nob bikers.

Honestly nowaday I have a feeling that boyz are here to die protecting the nob with saw/pk, not to kill something significant.

You are right, I need more hitting power in my list.