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On a kind of random topic, thinking about how they could rework Orks to be more interesting for 9th (my opinion of course), it’d be kinda awesome if WAAAGH! became an army rule, not just a Warboss thing. It’s something that ripples through the army, chain links between units or board wide. Obviously you’d need your boss to start it, but it would be cool if it wasn’t just a Warboss rule that affected some nearby units, but was a much bigger, more interesting rule that was more akin to a fully fledged army mechanic.

Yeah I've been saying that for a while now, I'd like it more like Da Big Waaagh! In Orruk Warclans but tweaked for 40k. We have quite a few units that dont really benefit from the Waaagh! As it stands which is pretty stupid. Lootas, flashgitz, all the planes, stuff that general cant or doesnt want to advance and charge.

These type of units should fire more shots or gain an AP. Like the dakkajet back when it first came out, it gained more shots when a waaagh was called.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
On a kind of random topic, thinking about how they could rework Orks to be more interesting for 9th (my opinion of course), it’d be kinda awesome if WAAAGH! became an army rule, not just a Warboss thing. It’s something that ripples through the army, chain links between units or board wide. Obviously you’d need your boss to start it, but it would be cool if it wasn’t just a Warboss rule that affected some nearby units, but was a much bigger, more interesting rule that was more akin to a fully fledged army mechanic.

What exactly to you want to be more interesting? Outside of a few units that really need help, orks are in a really awesome place right now, and interesting to play to boot - even the horde archetype I usually dislike can be played with as little as 90 skarboyz. If orks currently aren't providing you with what you like, there is little chance that they ever will.

Yeah i'd agree with Jidmah, orks are for the most part in a good place.
Not being the ultimate faction people are tailoring to beat doesnt mean we arent good.

Nobz becoming Troops, some proper HQ releases, and a few point tweaks is really all we need. Flash gitz stats arent bad, their cost is for example.

I disagree with that Jid, I dont find orks to be in an awesome place. The weapons are pretty lacklustre, the Clans arent great, why would you ever go Bad Moons, Blood Axes or Snakebites? Atleast in the Marine and Necrons codex there is viability in most of the sub factions. Our relics are pretty dull and we are generally over priced.

If the army was awesome youd see a lot of playstyles and units that are viable. Unless your forced too what incentive is there to take big shootas or rokkits on the units that can take them? Why take a powerklaw when a killsaw is better and the same cost? Why take lootas, burnas, blitza-bommers, BDSW, RTSB, DKWT, foot nobz, etc.

I fell out of love with Orks near the tail end of 8th because they just felt uninspired and whatever they could do someone else did better and most likely more cheaper and efficiently.

All I want is our guns to have more bite to them, boys to actually have some punch and not rely on them being Goffs, clans to be brought up in line with other later gen codexes and more thought put into our army style and rules.

If they can make sweeping changes like they did to Ironjaws in the Orruk Warclans battletome, I'm sure they can do it to 40k Orks too. I dont think that's a little chance, looking from the Space Marine and Necron codex changes.

Can the kustom stompa take the blitza gatler kustom job? I'm only seeing the kustom stompa keyword and I'm not sure that counts

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
On a kind of random topic, thinking about how they could rework Orks to be more interesting for 9th (my opinion of course), it’d be kinda awesome if WAAAGH! became an army rule, not just a Warboss thing. It’s something that ripples through the army, chain links between units or board wide. Obviously you’d need your boss to start it, but it would be cool if it wasn’t just a Warboss rule that affected some nearby units, but was a much bigger, more interesting rule that was more akin to a fully fledged army mechanic.

What exactly to you want to be more interesting? Outside of a few units that really need help, orks are in a really awesome place right now, and interesting to play to boot - even the horde archetype I usually dislike can be played with as little as 90 skarboyz. If orks currently aren't providing you with what you like, there is little chance that they ever will.

Agreed. Not sure what our equivalent of doctrines/protocols would be, I wouldn't be against a WAAAGH! point system of some type, but it shouldn't be an army defining ability, more of a side-bonus at most. The last thing I want is to become like Space Marines where they have so many bespoke rules stacked on top of each other that they have to condense most of them under one heading because it takes up too much space.

miscNouns wrote:
Can the kustom stompa take the blitza gatler kustom job? I'm only seeing the kustom stompa keyword and I'm not sure that counts

RAW? No. It seems reasonable it should, but it's not a STOMPA but a KUSTOM STOMPA.

Edit: Among friends, I bet they would not care if you took it. Kustom Stompa isn't really competitive anyway.

 deffrekka wrote:
I disagree with that Jid, I dont find orks to be in an awesome place. The weapons are pretty lacklustre, the Clans arent great, why would you ever go Bad Moons, Blood Axes or Snakebites? Atleast in the Marine and Necrons codex there is viability in most of the sub factions. Our relics are pretty dull and we are generally over priced.

If the army was awesome youd see a lot of playstyles and units that are viable. Unless your forced too what incentive is there to take big shootas or rokkits on the units that can take them? Why take a powerklaw when a killsaw is better and the same cost? Why take lootas, burnas, blitza-bommers, BDSW, RTSB, DKWT, foot nobz, etc.

I fell out of love with Orks near the tail end of 8th because they just felt uninspired and whatever they could do someone else did better and most likely more cheaper and efficiently.

All I want is our guns to have more bite to them, boys to actually have some punch and not rely on them being Goffs, clans to be brought up in line with other later gen codexes and more thought put into our army style and rules.

I agree that most of those things should change, but those issues are just regular issues that every army experiences, even space marines. We know some of these will be addressed for sure - PK and Killsaw will change, relics and cultures will most likely be reworked like we saw for necrons.

Two things I disagree with though - our guns have plenty of bite, it has never been as easy for me to gun my opponents off the table as it has now. Shootas and big shootas need help, but especially the buggies and the units released in 7th bring some serious dakka to the table.
The other is that we actually are seeing many play styles and viable units. Buggies might not be trashing tournaments anymore, but they are still very viable build. Both the buggies and the Thrakka horde have a relatively cheap core and we see tons of permutations around that core, from deffwing to walker hordes to trukk boy spam. Few armies looking as similar as they did in 8th. Even in the golden age of 5th, we didn't have as many choices seeing regular play.

Therefore I would very much not want orks to get thrown out with the bathwater, but rather have them specifically address the issues at hand.

As for an army ability akin to doctrines? I would love something that would represent the Waaagh! gathering more and momentum, making orks faster and more powerful as the game goes on.

ordinarily i would say i dont see other armies getting something akin to doctrines but necrons got protocols and theyre functionally the same thing, just nowhere near as ridiculous or free.

For orks i really dont see how they would do such a thing. Orks arent known for tactical prowess, except for Thrakka.

Id like a Waaagh ability implemented.

Its a big part of the fluff yet in the tabletop game its.. non existent.

Also i dont understand why the Warboss on warbike got the speedwaagh ability? Hes just going to compete with the Deffkilla wartrike, and out competes it even.

I dont understand why i should buy a deffkilla wartrike at this point.

At least the warboss on warbike with his regular Waaagh! ability made him unique.

 Jidmah wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
I disagree with that Jid, I dont find orks to be in an awesome place. The weapons are pretty lacklustre, the Clans arent great, why would you ever go Bad Moons, Blood Axes or Snakebites? Atleast in the Marine and Necrons codex there is viability in most of the sub factions. Our relics are pretty dull and we are generally over priced.

If the army was awesome youd see a lot of playstyles and units that are viable. Unless your forced too what incentive is there to take big shootas or rokkits on the units that can take them? Why take a powerklaw when a killsaw is better and the same cost? Why take lootas, burnas, blitza-bommers, BDSW, RTSB, DKWT, foot nobz, etc.

I fell out of love with Orks near the tail end of 8th because they just felt uninspired and whatever they could do someone else did better and most likely more cheaper and efficiently.

All I want is our guns to have more bite to them, boys to actually have some punch and not rely on them being Goffs, clans to be brought up in line with other later gen codexes and more thought put into our army style and rules.

I agree that most of those things should change, but those issues are just regular issues that every army experiences, even space marines. We know some of these will be addressed for sure - PK and Killsaw will change, relics and cultures will most likely be reworked like we saw for necrons.

Two things I disagree with though - our guns have plenty of bite, it has never been as easy for me to gun my opponents off the table as it has now. Shootas and big shootas need help, but especially the buggies and the units released in 7th bring some serious dakka to the table.
The other is that we actually are seeing many play styles and viable units. Buggies might not be trashing tournaments anymore, but they are still very viable build. Both the buggies and the Thrakka horde have a relatively cheap core and we see tons of permutations around that core, from deffwing to walker hordes to trukk boy spam. Few armies looking as similar as they did in 8th. Even in the golden age of 5th, we didn't have as many choices seeing regular play.

Therefore I would very much not want orks to get thrown out with the bathwater, but rather have them specifically address the issues at hand.

As for an army ability akin to doctrines? I would love something that would represent the Waaagh! gathering more and momentum, making orks faster and more powerful as the game goes on.

Yeah totally! I'd be happy with a Sisters tier codex, nothing game breaking but solid. And I love the SJD and the MTSJ but the other buggies fall short for me, i had this convo on r/orks and some of the buggies just have an identity crisis. Why give buggies grot blastas and stikkbombs when they wont really use them or cant after advancing and some time you dont even see the point in these weapons anyway. Things like giving orks proper flamers, and the KBB 4d6 shots. I dont think that's broken, hell let the KBB fire its burna exhausts as a melee profile and let the BDSW drop burna bottles in melee in addition to the shooting phase.

Weapons like deffguns and dakkaguns to me feel flat, I think dakkaguns should personally be like boomstikks and get the BS improvements at close range when they are throwing out that much dakka, and I'd like to see deffguns more like the obliterators guns. You have lascannons, fusion blasters, and slug throwing weapons so they shouldnt just be str 7 ap 1 damage 2, maybe even let the mek or big mek tinker with them to give them a stat boost in the command phase. The only change I'd like on normal shootas is probably assault 3. The kustom mega blasta and kustom mega slugga I think need an extra shot. Again it wouldnt break the models using them, if a mega kannon gets d6 and a mega Zappa gets 3d3 I dont think 2 shots for the blasta and slugga is meta breaking. Big shootas I have no idea what to do with them, they used to be our equivalent to heavy bolters but they are now 2 damage and they actually have an AP so it's like what can you do with them that makes them worthwhile to take? 4 shots, 5? AP1? A suppression mechanic like the Skystalkers have from admech with the strat?

I fully agree with Waaagh being a rolling benefit, I'd also like to see DDD and Goffs just have exploding 6s gen and additional hit.

Like we pay 2CP to have 5s and 6s gen additional hit rolls, whilst other armies have 1/2CP strats to straight up fire again.... I'd rather have DDD be more consistent and again, I dont think it will break the game. Maybe with Bad Moons it could be a bit oppressive but that was a problem in 8th with lootas anyway and I'd like to see the Moon gits taken into a new direction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
ordinarily i would say i dont see other armies getting something akin to doctrines but necrons got protocols and theyre functionally the same thing, just nowhere near as ridiculous or free.

For orks i really dont see how they would do such a thing. Orks arent known for tactical prowess, except for Thrakka.

Well with Orks, the Waaagh! Energy increases in tempo driving the orks to greater acts of violence and ferocity. In the 5th ed rulebook there is a 2 page ork story about a warboss charging across an ice lake to some valhallans and then as the orks get closer the energy builds up driving the orks into a frenzy, the bosses pet weirdboy cause an avalanche to bury the artillery under snow and rock. I believe it was Waaagh! Gragnatz. And the same type of increasing wave is seen in the evil sunz rising book and it literally causes the orks in that story to have a head ache that drives them to greater acts of slaughter as literally they descend into a red haze. The mek boss wasnt much for fighting but when he got hit with waaagh! Fever he joined in with the rest of the boys.

I think orks deserve more of a turn based mechanic than say necrons with their protocols and marines with doctrines as it's always been In the ork lore. A warboss should be the focal point of the waaagh not the person who gives it out as a just an advance and charge

 Jidmah wrote:
...yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thrakka placing first again:

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-gt-triple-threat/

***EDIT*** finally got on BCP

The Ork player faced

Round 1: Salamanders (27th place): Surprise Surprise was running 2 fully decked out Multi-melta dev squads, plasma inceptors and bladeguard. He did bring 10 Aggressors but with flamestorm gauntlets so they were probably easy pickings for the Smasha guns the ork brought. Basically, remove the Aggressors and the leftovers can't kill orkz fast enough to do much of anything.

Round 2: Chaos Marines (22nd place): Don't know why, but dude brought over 600pts of noise Marines to the game. List finished out with Khorne Zerkers in a rhino rush. Again, fairly easy prey for Smasha Gunz and once out of their tin cans, Zerkers tend to die pretty easily.

Round 3: White Scars (10th Place): 500pts tied up in Plasma Inceptors. Another 270 in outriders and another 110 in LS Storms. Blade Guard made another large appearance here as well (350pts). So yet another list built towards dealing with tough infantry that is mostly wasted against throw away Boyz units.

Round 4: Skitarii (12th place): Guy brought host of D2+ weaponry (Go figure) most notably he brought 450pts of Skorpius Disintegrator and 325pts of Ironstrider Ballistarii. The most anti-infantry weapons he had at range were a bunch of Cognis heavy stubbers.

Finally Round 5: Nuns with Guns (4th Place): And the closest game he came to losing (won by 5pts) So why did he almost lose this one? My guess? Because dude brought not 1, not 2 but 3 units of Mortifiers (720pts) which came with 24 heavy Bolters. Thats 32 dead orkz a turn on Average. My guess is he lost because he also brought about 600pts of exorcists and basically only had 5 Troop models. (not exaggerating) so holding objectives would have been easy, but costly.

2nd and 3rd place Lost against 8th and 9th place respectively (Space puppies and Crons). Both lists heavily favored anti-elite weapons. Either in the form of multi damage or -AP weaponry. The SW list lacked basically any ranged firepower or horde clearing abilities besides piling into CC and hoping for the best, while the Necron list was also a CC oriented Mutli dmg/AP list which featured no less than 15 Wraiths, 9 Skorpek destroyers and 2 Spiders and again, weirdly, only 5 troops total (immortals).

Basically its a regurgitation of my earlier hypothesis. Space Marines are a victim of their own success. Tournament lists are bringing a plethora of anti-elite weaponry and basically have nothing to deal with Ork Hordes. Even the Battle Sisters army is almost exclusively anti-elite. The difference is the player brought a plethora of anti-elite in the form of Heavy Bolters which are upgraded to 2D now, which is most likely going to be the most effective weapon in my opinion thanks to his relatively high rate of fire and ability to kill elites at the same time.

Also Side note: 2 other ork players were at the event, they finished 23rd and 24th respectively. One was a weird mix of Burna bommers, grots, battlewagons and tankbustas The other list was another amalgamation of random ork units with no real focus. 60 boyz, 20 grots (2 units) 2 min units of kommandos, a 10 man unit of Tankbustas, 2 Boomdakka snazz wagonz, 4 mek guns (3 smasha 1 traktor), a pair of Burna bommers and a Trukk (probably for Tankbustas).

So neither list did good at all (2 wins each) but that is because they split their forces instead of going all in on one aspect. The 2nd list in particular is just awful. Plenty of targets for Anti-horde guns while at the same time providing more than enough targets for dedicated anti-vehicle weapons. I can't imagine those Bommers survived long with how much melta and other anti-vehicle weaponry was floating around.

Though what would they make while not stepping on the toes of Dark Eldar's progressive Power From Pain mechanic? And the Marine one for that matter. If everyone simply gets a progressive turn based mechanic it would make things feel rather bland. I do still think that a kill based mechanic focused around the Warboss would be more orkish and unique to the faction.

Also Jidmah, I do agree orkz are in a good place, but not as a faction, only in competitive scene, and only if you are running horde with Ghaz and Goffs. As I predicted, Buggies are basically dead, not because they aren't a good option in and of themselves, but because everyone is list tailoring to face off against SM in a tournament. So multi-dmg good AP weapons are EVERYWHERE. Even without the Melta spam going on, people are bringing a plethora of Heavy Bolters and other ranged weaponry that can deal multi-dmg. Buggies are dead to this because they aren't all that tough (T6) and with a 4+ save.

I think the faction as a whole needs a lot of work if we are going to be able to have more then a single list in the competitive scene. And worse yet, that list isn't even good on its own, its just a hard counter to the current meta.

Not shocking, but good deep dive. Yeah, boy tide is an anti meta choice.

I think at its core, it's not a strong list, as any divergence from killing marines will lay waste how bad boys are. But it can steal wins as long as marines are dominant.

I'll still be playing largely mech in my home games, as that's actually fun to play.

Edit: think of it this way.

People are teching into killing marines and they are *still* winning.

I guarantee you, if you built to kill a tide / gaunt carpet, these lists would bottom out immediately.

For the biker boss, is Brutal but Kunnin still the go to warlord trait? With the base T7, I think ard as nails might be a good choice since it forces so many weapons to need a higher wound roll

Single bikerboss i could see it, but if you keep Brutal but Kunnin on the killsaw one you have 2 flat3 damage melee monsters on fast wheelz instead of just 1.
Only 1 will have an invul, but not that big a deal just dont send him towards something that can punch back reliably.

I would probably try to use the "Follow me ladz!" trait, simply to make both vehicles and infantry charge after an advance, given that he can only make vehicles charge after advances.

Unless you run ghaz next to him or another regular warboss.

Oddly i dont fully understand the CP requirement. it says it takes 1 CP to take the trait, yet it also gives you 1 CP additional CP.

So it takes one, and gives one. whats the point i wonder.

I think some Ork stuff is in a good place, but the codex is pretty badly internally balanced and needs to be fixed. Killa Kanz and normal Nobz, for example.

But mainly a cool WAAAGH! mechanic isn’t to make the army stronger, but to make it more fun and interesting, ans to feel more Orky.

Also I feel like I get slaughtered playing Orks every time I play them. Maybe I’m playing them wrong but I can barely kill a few models while my army is being demolished each turn. I guess I do fight Marines a lot, but it’s a shame that I have to just agree to lose when fighting them, rather than look forward to a close game.

Beardedragon wrote:
I would probably try to use the "Follow me ladz!" trait, simply to make both vehicles and infantry charge after an advance, given that he can only make vehicles charge after advances.

Unless you run ghaz next to him or another regular warboss.

Oddly i dont fully understand the CP requirement. it says it takes 1 CP to take the trait, yet it also gives you 1 CP additional CP.

So it takes one, and gives one. whats the point i wonder.

Not sure what you're talking about as far as WL traits go, since they don't intrinsically cost CP to take. Only more recent books like Necrons/SM have the strat that let's them give another character a WL trait for 1 CP. For us we only get one, so you always get a net gain of 1CP from Follow Me Ladz. Most of the time it's combined with either the Biggest Boss or the Kleverest Boss which is NOT a warlord trait, but also costs 1CP.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I would probably try to use the "Follow me ladz!" trait, simply to make both vehicles and infantry charge after an advance, given that he can only make vehicles charge after advances.

Unless you run ghaz next to him or another regular warboss.

Oddly i dont fully understand the CP requirement. it says it takes 1 CP to take the trait, yet it also gives you 1 CP additional CP.

So it takes one, and gives one. whats the point i wonder.

Not sure what you're talking about as far as WL traits go, since they don't intrinsically cost CP to take. Only more recent books like Necrons/SM have the strat that let's them give another character a WL trait for 1 CP. For us we only get one, so you always get a net gain of 1CP from Follow Me Ladz. Most of the time it's combined with either the Biggest Boss or the Kleverest Boss which is NOT a warlord trait, but also costs 1CP.

i always only saw follow me ladz as the only warlord trait for orks that cost CP yet still gained you one, not the rest. I think it must have been a battlescribe bug because thats where i saw it.

I always thought it was odd, but i also never used it so yea.

I also always use Follow Me Ladz, even on a Warboss. Its +1CP and expanded aura are useful for the entire game, and a deathskull boss doesn't need the re-rolls of Brutal But Kunning. Re-deployment could be useful, but my orks have always been brutal oriented, not very kunning, so I guess Kunning but Brutal doesn't match my style of playing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
...yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thrakka placing first again:

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-gt-triple-threat/

***EDIT*** finally got on BCP

The Ork player faced

Spoiler:

Round 1: Salamanders (27th place): Surprise Surprise was running 2 fully decked out Multi-melta dev squads, plasma inceptors and bladeguard. He did bring 10 Aggressors but with flamestorm gauntlets so they were probably easy pickings for the Smasha guns the ork brought. Basically, remove the Aggressors and the leftovers can't kill orkz fast enough to do much of anything.

Round 2: Chaos Marines (22nd place): Don't know why, but dude brought over 600pts of noise Marines to the game. List finished out with Khorne Zerkers in a rhino rush. Again, fairly easy prey for Smasha Gunz and once out of their tin cans, Zerkers tend to die pretty easily.

Round 3: White Scars (10th Place): 500pts tied up in Plasma Inceptors. Another 270 in outriders and another 110 in LS Storms. Blade Guard made another large appearance here as well (350pts). So yet another list built towards dealing with tough infantry that is mostly wasted against throw away Boyz units.

Round 4: Skitarii (12th place): Guy brought host of D2+ weaponry (Go figure) most notably he brought 450pts of Skorpius Disintegrator and 325pts of Ironstrider Ballistarii. The most anti-infantry weapons he had at range were a bunch of Cognis heavy stubbers.

Finally Round 5: Nuns with Guns (4th Place): And the closest game he came to losing (won by 5pts) So why did he almost lose this one? My guess? Because dude brought not 1, not 2 but 3 units of Mortifiers (720pts) which came with 24 heavy Bolters. Thats 32 dead orkz a turn on Average. My guess is he lost because he also brought about 600pts of exorcists and basically only had 5 Troop models. (not exaggerating) so holding objectives would have been easy, but costly.

2nd and 3rd place Lost against 8th and 9th place respectively (Space puppies and Crons). Both lists heavily favored anti-elite weapons. Either in the form of multi damage or -AP weaponry. The SW list lacked basically any ranged firepower or horde clearing abilities besides piling into CC and hoping for the best, while the Necron list was also a CC oriented Mutli dmg/AP list which featured no less than 15 Wraiths, 9 Skorpek destroyers and 2 Spiders and again, weirdly, only 5 troops total (immortals).

Basically its a regurgitation of my earlier hypothesis. Space Marines are a victim of their own success. Tournament lists are bringing a plethora of anti-elite weaponry and basically have nothing to deal with Ork Hordes. Even the Battle Sisters army is almost exclusively anti-elite. The difference is the player brought a plethora of anti-elite in the form of Heavy Bolters which are upgraded to 2D now, which is most likely going to be the most effective weapon in my opinion thanks to his relatively high rate of fire and ability to kill elites at the same time.

Also Side note: 2 other ork players were at the event, they finished 23rd and 24th respectively. One was a weird mix of Burna bommers, grots, battlewagons and tankbustas The other list was another amalgamation of random ork units with no real focus. 60 boyz, 20 grots (2 units) 2 min units of kommandos, a 10 man unit of Tankbustas, 2 Boomdakka snazz wagonz, 4 mek guns (3 smasha 1 traktor), a pair of Burna bommers and a Trukk (probably for Tankbustas).

So neither list did good at all (2 wins each) but that is because they split their forces instead of going all in on one aspect. The 2nd list in particular is just awful. Plenty of targets for Anti-horde guns while at the same time providing more than enough targets for dedicated anti-vehicle weapons. I can't imagine those Bommers survived long with how much melta and other anti-vehicle weaponry was floating around.

With the exception of the sister list, which was skew with that many mortifiers but the amount of bodies and firepower is typically the same one in my meta, all the other lists were too anti elite-tank oriented to be realistic in a non tournament environment. I've always thought that competitive orks are in a much better spot than casual ones. Here every opponent I face can wipe 30-45 boyz per turn but no one can 1-shot a knight instead or kill hundreds of points of primaris in un turn.

SemperMortis wrote:
Also Jidmah, I do agree orkz are in a good place, but not as a faction, only in competitive scene, and only if you are running horde with Ghaz and Goffs. As I predicted, Buggies are basically dead, not because they aren't a good option in and of themselves, but because everyone is list tailoring to face off against SM in a tournament. So multi-dmg good AP weapons are EVERYWHERE. Even without the Melta spam going on, people are bringing a plethora of Heavy Bolters and other ranged weaponry that can deal multi-dmg. Buggies are dead to this because they aren't all that tough (T6) and with a 4+ save.

I think the faction as a whole needs a lot of work if we are going to be able to have more then a single list in the competitive scene. And worse yet, that list isn't even good on its own, its just a hard counter to the current meta.

I doubt that top competitive games will ever have room for more than one archetype. I have quite some experience with competitive RTS gaming, MtG, MoBa and video-game rpgs like WoW or diablo in the past and rarely, if ever, you had more than one optimal build for any given faction, archetype, skilltree or class. Expecting two or three variants of each army showing up in the top4 of grand tournaments simply isn't realistic by any means.

That said, buggies are still a very powerful build - if you read goonhammer's statistical analysis on secondaries, giving up 15 VP of one secondary is by no means a guaranteed loss. If you aren't facing cutting edge things like exalted keeper spam or immortal go karts you still can stand a good chance of winning. The main issue IMO is that they can't kill primaris fast enough and are outrun by slanesh daemons and harlequins.

gungo wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

gungo wrote:
I haven’t seen good pictures of the mek dread profile how did they Redo it’s feel no pain ability

It's just the Ramshackle rule from the Trukk ported over to them, so they no longer have a pseudo 5+ FNP that degrades, they get a 6+ save to reduce damage to 1.

It was a 4+ fnp that degraded
So this is a pretty big hit.

They did go down close to 100 points, so they are much easier to include in a list now. However they lost access to the KFF, most likely because it was never part of the model.

Ouch the kff is gone too? What’s the entire point of the meka dread.. also the meka dread body had a kff on it.

So how does one play Orks? I tend to get slaughtered when I play them and have been waiting for their 9th book but if peeps think they’re good atm I may need to learn how to play them. I use stuff like Nobz, Mek Gunz, boyz, Deff Dreads. But it all ends up a bit meh, besides the Mek Gunz which try their best to carry my force through lol.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So how does one play Orks? I tend to get slaughtered when I play them and have been waiting for their 9th book but if peeps think they’re good atm I may need to learn how to play them. I use stuff like Nobz, Mek Gunz, boyz, Deff Dreads. But it all ends up a bit meh, besides the Mek Gunz which try their best to carry my force through lol.

What exactly do you have available? What kinds of armies are you facing? I'm sure we can help you to improve your winning quota

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So how does one play Orks? I tend to get slaughtered when I play them and have been waiting for their 9th book but if peeps think they’re good atm I may need to learn how to play them. I use stuff like Nobz, Mek Gunz, boyz, Deff Dreads. But it all ends up a bit meh, besides the Mek Gunz which try their best to carry my force through lol.

Generally the best advice is to pick a theme and stick to it - mech or infantry, but to avoid mixing or you'll just give your opponent every opportunity to use their weapons to maximum capacity.

Check out the first post, Jidmah does a good job keeping it up to date with each units strengths etc.

What is your usual approach with your units? What army list do you enjoy playing?

Ork strengths tend toward:

- Cheap, independent units (buggies)
- Cheapish hordes of boys to flood objectives
- Fast-hitting units (wartrke/bkerboss + anything fast can generally pull of turn 1 charges)

Mek Guns tend to fit into any list as they are too tough for basic anti-infantry guns to kill efficiently, and too weak for anti-tank guns to kill efficiently either. Smasha guns are generally considered the best option, but Kustom Mega Kannons and Bubblechukkas work pretty well too (I like bubblechukkas, they do well if facing large units). Smasha guns are good at anti vehicle, but absolutely shine when it comes to anti-elite. Any 3 wound T5-6 infantry with good saves and no invulns can kiss their behinds goodbye. Also effective vs the primaris snipers with 2+ saves from cover, and anything which confers -1 to wound, like necron destroyers with stratagem.

Bonde wrote:

 Bonde wrote:

gungo wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

gungo wrote:
I haven’t seen good pictures of the mek dread profile how did they Redo it’s feel no pain ability

It's just the Ramshackle rule from the Trukk ported over to them, so they no longer have a pseudo 5+ FNP that degrades, they get a 6+ save to reduce damage to 1.

It was a 4+ fnp that degraded
So this is a pretty big hit.

They did go down close to 100 points, so they are much easier to include in a list now. However they lost access to the KFF, most likely because it was never part of the model.

Ouch the kff is gone too? What’s the entire point of the meka dread.. also the meka dread body had a kff on it.

I just checked the assembly manual for my Meka Dread, and actually it is not modelled with a KFF. It does have an exposed engine and exhaust though.

right side of the body above the servo arm has the kff antenna

Tiberius - my simple tips how to start:

1. Oversaturate enemy on one type of targets. Either infantry, or vehicles, not both exept few SMG in infantry or few kommandos in vehicle list.
2. Have enough dakka to kill a knight a turn. Twice. The same with some horde units (check the discuss about this about 10 pages back).
3. Be mobile. Either via Da Jump and other deepstrikes, or because of the fast wheels. You need to control the board, you need to get there.
4. Have a plan with secondaries and custom fit your army to it = kommandos for deploy fungus etc., skip the wierdboy to be ready to abhorn the witch...
5. Redundancy. Your plan can' t be in ruins, if you lost one unit.
6. Survive go second. This is crucial. KFF, right terrain and deploy, something in DS, something in transport.
7. Copy and modify. Copy the succesful list and then improve your acordingly. Jidmah usualy maintain a collection of intereseting lists on the first page, isn' t? Or check meta analysis on goonhammer for last few months.