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 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Is there a particular situation where you want shoota boyz over sluggas? I got a couple shoota mobs just because they look cool but even with a full volley of 30 boyz, you're getting what, maybe 2 dead marines? I'm kind of struggling to see a point to them, which is weird since back in 5th all I remember people running was shoota boyz. That said mass S4 shooting was muh scarier back then than it is now, so I guess it makes sense.

/.../

I mean, you can always do what you want and plan for those fringe situations but the benefit is so rare and minor that I honestly just run all my boyz as Choppa boyz, so I don't have to worry about positioning and which models to remove.

The benefit all depends on where you use it. Shooting main line units will put a small dent in them of course, but if it´s 5 Infiltrators gunning for your DZ to Scramble (because your huge footprint army screened it out), then 1 or 2 Marines is worth it. So there's an argument for versatility.

Or simply, 3 x 30 Boyz takes space, which is a tactical problem (at least in my experience). Having them standing around because a savvy opponent body blocked or charged and tarpitted you is a liability. Sure, running board wide is an option, but not necessarily the strategically correct option every day.

On new the Kustom Job thing I guess it´s a tossup. I don´t think the designers are that coherent in their work. More of a internal and external balance goal followed by "what is cool?". If that designer doesn´t feel Kustom Jobs they´re out. Imagining strategic design meetings which actually results in anything people pay attention to talks against my 30 years experience of working within global companies

Beardedragon wrote:
ive changed weapons at least 5 times by now between my powerklaws and saws, they work fine i think.

Big Mek Sparknutz wrote:
So tomorrow I am going to be playing my friend in a 1500pt game, my Orks vs. his Drukhari. I am trying a strategy I have always wanted to give a shot, running a gunwagon with "Da Boomer" as Evil Sunz.

I plan on using my wierdboy to cast "Visions in the Smoke" in conjunction with "More Dakka" to take out as many raiders and venoms as possible. The gunwagon will also have the lobba and 4 big shootas for maximum value. I will let you know how it works.

I thought about going Evil Sunz too for my Da Boomer match for visions in the smoke but the problem is if you dont have a vehicle with higher wound counts then you first need to cast and manifest your ability, and then theres a decent chance the value is either too low or too high for you to not be able to cast it on your wagon. To use this ability to the best of its ability there needs to be both value units (17 wounds and less, and 18 wounds and higher) so that when the ability manifests, you can always find a target for the ability. Right now you actually need to be quite lucky to cast it on your wagon. +6 to manifest then see if its between 6 and 8 to cast it on the wagon. You will fail if you cast a +9 since you have no units with 18 wounds or more.

The odds are against you here.

6-8 - success
0-5 + 9-12 - failure

I do not believe that's how "Visions" works. "Select a friendly Evil Sunz vehicle unit within 12" (can only select units with 18+ wounds on a WC roll of 9+), and reroll all hit rolls for that unit until your next psychic phase." That is stating that you are allowed to pick vehicles with 18+ wounds on a 9+ roll, not that you have to. No where else have I read that is how to play that rule.

Big Mek Sparknutz wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
ive changed weapons at least 5 times by now between my powerklaws and saws, they work fine i think.

Big Mek Sparknutz wrote:
So tomorrow I am going to be playing my friend in a 1500pt game, my Orks vs. his Drukhari. I am trying a strategy I have always wanted to give a shot, running a gunwagon with "Da Boomer" as Evil Sunz.

I plan on using my wierdboy to cast "Visions in the Smoke" in conjunction with "More Dakka" to take out as many raiders and venoms as possible. The gunwagon will also have the lobba and 4 big shootas for maximum value. I will let you know how it works.

I thought about going Evil Sunz too for my Da Boomer match for visions in the smoke but the problem is if you dont have a vehicle with higher wound counts then you first need to cast and manifest your ability, and then theres a decent chance the value is either too low or too high for you to not be able to cast it on your wagon. To use this ability to the best of its ability there needs to be both value units (17 wounds and less, and 18 wounds and higher) so that when the ability manifests, you can always find a target for the ability. Right now you actually need to be quite lucky to cast it on your wagon. +6 to manifest then see if its between 6 and 8 to cast it on the wagon. You will fail if you cast a +9 since you have no units with 18 wounds or more.

The odds are against you here.


6-8 - success
0-5 + 9-12 - failure

I do not believe that's how "Visions" works. "Select a friendly Evil Sunz vehicle unit within 12" (can only select units with 18+ wounds on a WC roll of 9+), and reroll all hit rolls for that unit until your next psychic phase." That is stating that you are allowed to pick vehicles with 18+ wounds on a 9+ roll, not that you have to. No where else have I read that is how to play that rule.

have i misunderstood the rule?

I assumed you had to pick one with 18 wounds or more if it was a 9+.


feth me im a complete dingus, I thought it was made that way to make it different but also to put a hindrance on the ability since rerolling all failed hits is pretty good. Ive read that ability a couple of times, not sure why I understood it so wrongly. This changes everything

 Tomsug wrote:
MANz needs to be magnetized because this plastic “penisies” will break down during the 5th changing of the weapons. The good news is, it' s a fast job you can do afterwards.

I see the system of paying CP for units upgrades instead of points pretty clever for orks. Why? Our biggest disadventage is that we die fast like a hell. And except some obvious ways how to survive like KFF etc, our main in-built surviving system is - a lot of cheap models and units. If you say “let' s have custom jobs in the unit included in higher price” keep in mind that it means, you will take less buggies or dreads or whatever. And that is the opposite to what makes them work. You need a lot of scrapjets to make them working. You need a lot of smashagunz to make them working. Etc. Because they die easily and because their weapons are more or less random and you need to have enough tries to hit the lucky numbers. So I don' t have a big problem with this system. And honestly, I'm pretty lucky I can focus on right positioning and target prioritizing on the table and not to be distracted by keeping in mind some crazy strategems shenenyngas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Big Mek Sparknutz wrote:
So tomorrow I am going to be playing my friend in a 1500pt game, my Orks vs. his Drukhari. I am trying a strategy I have always wanted to give a shot, running a gunwagon with "Da Boomer" as Evil Sunz.

I plan on using my wierdboy to cast "Visions in the Smoke" in conjunction with "More Dakka" to take out as many raiders and venoms as possible. The gunwagon will also have the lobba and 4 big shootas for maximum value. I will let you know how it works.

Well that is the good example to my previous comment. The way to luck is a lot of body on the table to survive. Any of our units dies in 1 turn, in case enemy pick this unit up as a target. So general system is to keep the units bare and naked. Wanna Da Boomer? Take Da Boomer and dont waste a points for some lobba or big shootas. They have no synergie with Da Boomer and their price per point is terrible. Spare your 40p and take one smashugun to do another long range damage and screen some other part of the field. Or take some deffkopta to make a mess in his deploy and save you a turn of firing from Da Boomer or somethíng like this.

Btw. this is valid not only for orks, but for most of other armies too. The longer you live, the longer you can do something.

Id agree with you if Orks were actually cheap. In the wider view of things were arent actually that cheap for what we do or put out in terms of durability and firepower. A Dreadnought is 120pts for a Assault Cannon, Stormbolter and a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon. Thats 5 attacks on the first round of combat (unless piled in to) at WS3 Str12 AP3 D3 whilst ignoring -1 damage innate and having an ok gun with it being 6 shots Str6 AP2 turn 1 D1 at BS3 and then a smattering of bolter fire. A Deff Dread to get the same amount of attacks as a Dreadnought with Shock Assault is 100pts without the 4th arm and we are only Str10 and we dont reduce damage like the Dread. Slap on a Big Shoota to keep him down on cost hes 105pts, 15pts more gets you soooo much more. I wouldnt call the Deff Dread cheap when an "elite" armies Dread is 15pts more for quite a lot better. Adding a Skorcha makes us 5pts less than what the Marines have to offer and they arent really taking your standard Dread.

Ive made a comment on our Warbikes a fair few pages back and they are up there for being the most expensive, only 1pt less than CSM and SM bikers. Outriders, Shining Spears, Sky Weavers, Black knights, Vertus Praetors (and of course Nob Bikers) are the only bikes more expensive.

Lootas my lord, 20ppm. Its quite bad. A Havok with an Autocannon is 27ppm with toughness 5, ignoring moving and shooting penalty for heavy weapons, 3+ save, better leadership and movement... All that for 7pts more.

Nobz 17ppm. Assault Intercessors 19ppm. Ones our Elites, the other their Troops. One is just better with the armies standard CC weapon.

Meganobz with dual Killsaws are 40ppm. A Terminator is 38ppm with Storm Bolter and Powerfist, 33ppm with Lightning Claws, 43ppm with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. 2 options are cheaper and just as killy, 1 is 3ppm more expensive with a 1+ save and a 4++.

Our buggies, jeez are they expensive. An Achillies Ridgerunner is 70ppm stock. A Marine ATV is 80-85pts... can be revived, gets better synergies and weapons. Yeah why is our buggies 90-110pts I dont even know.

A Leman Russ stock with a Battlecannon and Heavy Bolter is 165pts, a Gunwagon is 175pts. It might hold 12 models, with 4 extra wounds and a smattering of CC attacks but it has a worse save, worse range, larger footprint so its harder to hide and it hits worse. Would anyone take a Gunwagon without Da Boomer?

A Painboy, 65pts. An Apothecary 75pts. Does the same thing, has a 3+ save and can revive models for a CP or pay 15pts to do it for free.

Hell our Shokk Attack Gun Big Mek is a whopping 120pts! Who fought that was a good price?

Troops 5ppm for a Grot! 8ppm for an Boy. When compared to Guardsmen/Conscripts 5ppm, Rangers/Vanguard 9ppm, Breachers/Strike 9ppm, Termagants 5ppm, Hormagaunts 6ppm, Broad Brothers 5ppm, Neophytes 6ppm, Acolytes 8ppm. Its not really funny what we get for our cost compared to other armies.

Nothing grinds my gears more than someone saying Orks are a cheap army, we arent. Yes Mek Gunz are, the rest of our army not so much. just because a unit gets improved doesnt mean the cost has to go up. Look at Mortarion. 490pts before his improvements. 490pts after. Yeah he lost his -1 toughness and MW aura but he gained a toughness and an attack, Silence's Eviscerating Blow up to Dd3+3 from Dd6, and now he has a Chapter Master equivalent rule, whilst keeping his old reroll 1s to hit aura which only affects Core.

Adding KJs as permanent additions to our units doesnt have to warrant a price increase. Id rather have more interesting and powerful stratagems to spend my CP on instead of blowing my load pregame because Orks dont have that many great stratagems to begin with due to them being highly specific or costly with not much gain.

 deffrekka wrote:


Our buggies, jeez are they expensive.

They're not. 50$ for a 90-110 ppm means they're too cheap actually. They're 11-14 points per wound which isn't bad for what they do.

Some other things may be even cheaper, I know that, but that's their problem. Buggies are ok.

Tons of undercosted SM units unfortunately exist. Making everything cheaper, once again, isn't the answer. Raise the cost of the elite dudes that are dirty cheap instead.

 Blackie wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:


Our buggies, jeez are they expensive.

They're not. 50$ for a 90-110 ppm means they're too cheap actually. They're 11-14 points per wound which isn't bad for what they do.

Some other things may be even cheaper, I know that, but that's their problem. Buggies are ok.

Tons of undercosted SM units unfortunately exist. Making everything cheaper, once again, isn't the answer. Raise the cost of the elite dudes that are dirty cheap instead.

Money wise I dont find them expensive, points wise I do. I was more commenting on including KJs as standard issue items/abilities doesnt mean you have to increase the models cost. But I still find that buggies are all atleast 10pts overcosted.

 deffrekka wrote:


Money wise I dont find them expensive, points wise I do. I was more commenting on including KJs as standard issue items/abilities doesnt mean you have to increase the models cost. But I still find that buggies are all atleast 10pts overcosted.

Well, we disagree, for me it's the exact oppositve. 50$ for a buggy is almost insane, 90-110 for their profile is a good deal, IMHO they could even be 10ppm more expensive and still worthy. And I never use KJ on buggies.

 Jidmah wrote:
With the recent DG preview (plague weapon "kustom jobs"), it's fairly likely that kustom jobs will be costing points, not CP. Let's just hope they drop the points of the non-customized stuff down by enough.

This is the way.

And hopefully GW gives us a plethora of great strats for us to use CP on. I don't think I should largely ignore the stratagem game because I don't happen to take 120 boys or lootas every game.

So, the new list app is out from GW, and the kannonwagon has big shootas as 0pts in it is as well. Guess it's confirmed they did mean those to be free. Interestingly it lists them as free for Battlewagons as well but that's probably just a lazy copy paste error.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So, the new list app is out from GW, and the kannonwagon has big shootas as 0pts in it is as well. Guess it's confirmed they did mean those to be free. Interestingly it lists them as free for Battlewagons as well but that's probably just a lazy copy paste error.

It's not a mistake. IA has them as free upgrades. I imagine if it's just modelled or not, but you'd never not take them if they're free.

Also a hopeful sign that big shootas are getting cheaper. 5 points is too much.

It’s possible they are included in the future profiles however it’s possible there is a mistake...

For instance the big Mek in mega armor can take the kustom force field for free as well... but it cost points on a Morkanaut and wazbom...

gungo wrote:
It’s possible they are included in the future profiles however it’s possible there is a mistake...

For instance the big Mek in mega armor can take the kustom force field for free as well... but it cost points on a Morkanaut and wazbom...

In GW app? Wau.. seems they made a mess again...

 Tomsug wrote:

gungo wrote:
It’s possible they are included in the future profiles however it’s possible there is a mistake...

For instance the big Mek in mega armor can take the kustom force field for free as well... but it cost points on a Morkanaut and wazbom...

In GW app? Wau.. seems they made a mess again...

To be fair it’s been that way for a while in the app.. other then it being extremely slow for adding strats I haven’t had much issues but I don’t have a fw compendium code to try out the new dread loadouts.

Beardedragon wrote:Anyway, the weirdboy with maniacal seizures seemed pretty interesting, it made my boyz get -AP when they swarmed the debuffed unit which was nice, an over all interesting and good debuff i think.

...

I did win the match though.

Kudos on the win. I've long been a fan of Shoota Boyz and have had good success with them over the editions. While it isn't a huge shift, 30 Shoota Boyz can put out a lot of shots, and forcing buckets and buckets of saves gets through saves. I've been thinking of this same thing. Several Weirdboyz and spamming Shoota Boyz along with some other AT weaponry (Tankbustas in DS have a good strat). I think the Rokkit is -2 DMG3? Taking a Knight from a 3+ to a 6+ vs Rokkits helps.

popisdead wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:Anyway, the weirdboy with maniacal seizures seemed pretty interesting, it made my boyz get -AP when they swarmed the debuffed unit which was nice, an over all interesting and good debuff i think.

...

I did win the match though.

Kudos on the win. I've long been a fan of Shoota Boyz and have had good success with them over the editions. While it isn't a huge shift, 30 Shoota Boyz can put out a lot of shots, and forcing buckets and buckets of saves gets through saves. I've been thinking of this same thing. Several Weirdboyz and spamming Shoota Boyz along with some other AT weaponry (Tankbustas in DS have a good strat). I think the Rokkit is -2 DMG3? Taking a Knight from a 3+ to a 6+ vs Rokkits helps.

Knights are 3+/5++. Oftentimes 4++.

 JNAProductions wrote:

popisdead wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:Anyway, the weirdboy with maniacal seizures seemed pretty interesting, it made my boyz get -AP when they swarmed the debuffed unit which was nice, an over all interesting and good debuff i think.

...

I did win the match though.

Kudos on the win. I've long been a fan of Shoota Boyz and have had good success with them over the editions. While it isn't a huge shift, 30 Shoota Boyz can put out a lot of shots, and forcing buckets and buckets of saves gets through saves. I've been thinking of this same thing. Several Weirdboyz and spamming Shoota Boyz along with some other AT weaponry (Tankbustas in DS have a good strat). I think the Rokkit is -2 DMG3? Taking a Knight from a 3+ to a 6+ vs Rokkits helps.

Knights are 3+/5++. Oftentimes 4++.

When in doubt a smashboss can sort it out.

cody.d. wrote:


When in doubt a smashboss can sort it out.

Once my Iron Rider from Artel W comes in, I might just for a total hoot field a triple Goff Bike boss list.

Take like:

1) Da biggest boss, Killa Klaw
2) Warlord: Kill Saw, Brutal but Kunnin
3) Da Lucky Stick Kill Saw

3 Smash bosses. 1 w/ 6 attacks, killa klaw, 1 w/ Kill saw re-roll all hits flat 3, 1 w/ Kill saw, re-all all hits and wounds.

I don't even care if it would work, it would just be a hoot to play.

tulun wrote:

cody.d. wrote:


When in doubt a smashboss can sort it out.

Once my Iron Rider from Artel W comes in, I might just for a total hoot field a triple Goff Bike boss list.

Take like:

1) Da biggest boss, Killa Klaw
2) Warlord: Kill Saw, Brutal but Kunnin
3) Da Lucky Stick Kill Saw

3 Smash bosses. 1 w/ 6 attacks, killa klaw, 1 w/ Kill saw re-roll all hits flat 3, 1 w/ Kill saw, re-all all hits and wounds.

I don't even care if it would work, it would just be a hoot to play.

Extra gubbinz and if you go Bad moon you can get that 4+ invul save relic. While Bad moon does you absolutely nothing in terms of kulture, it could be for the giggles. But with da biggest boss as well you have, at least 2 out of 3 bosses with a 4+ invul save.

Otherwise Goff or deathskulls. With their speed you should be able to reach the enemy by turn 1 without evil sunz.

Idea put into a list.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/794573.page#11004102

tulun wrote:


Also a hopeful sign that big shootas are getting cheaper. 5 points is too much.

It's very unlikely. Looking at the 9th codex it seems that GW is rounding the points costs to multiples of 5 whenever possible. Very few things are now costed below 5 points. It's easier they get AP-1 than a discount in points.

 Blackie wrote:

tulun wrote:


Also a hopeful sign that big shootas are getting cheaper. 5 points is too much.

It's very unlikely. Looking at the 9th codex it seems that GW is rounding the points costs to multiples of 5 whenever possible. Very few things are now costed below 5 points. It's easier they get AP-1 than a discount in points.

I hope that they get AP-1 rather than becoming cheaper, because right now it barely feels worth it to roll the dice.

Beardedragon wrote:

tulun wrote:

cody.d. wrote:


When in doubt a smashboss can sort it out.

Once my Iron Rider from Artel W comes in, I might just for a total hoot field a triple Goff Bike boss list.

Take like:

1) Da biggest boss, Killa Klaw
2) Warlord: Kill Saw, Brutal but Kunnin
3) Da Lucky Stick Kill Saw

3 Smash bosses. 1 w/ 6 attacks, killa klaw, 1 w/ Kill saw re-roll all hits flat 3, 1 w/ Kill saw, re-all all hits and wounds.

I don't even care if it would work, it would just be a hoot to play.

Extra gubbinz and if you go Bad moon you can get that 4+ invul save relic. While Bad moon does you absolutely nothing in terms of kulture, it could be for the giggles. But with da biggest boss as well you have, at least 2 out of 3 bosses with a 4+ invul save.

Otherwise Goff or deathskulls. With their speed you should be able to reach the enemy by turn 1 without evil sunz.

The 4++ is the Warlord trait for Badmoons, the relic is the Gobshot Thunderbuss which I used to use on a Dreadwaaagh! Biker Big Mek with a 2 Kombi Skorchas for firing twice for 8D6 shots autohitting str 5 ap 1 shots. I even made a custom model for him using the Deffkilla Wartrike, swapped the Speedboss for the old Finecast BM with SAG used the SJD to give it some new tires, swapped the jet engine for the shokk jump drive, swapped the two boomstikks with 2 big shootas from the Deff Dread kit and gave the mek 3 skorchas.

He then became legends. he was great at killing infantry and marines back in the day, but he wasnt a brawler like the Warboss on Bike.

Test results: In a case study of 2 I highly enjoyed pairing a Da Boomer Gunwagon with Evils Sunz "Visions in the Smoke". When it goes off with "More Dakka" it is devastating. The down side is you can really take out only one unit at a time with it due to periscope restrictions. With a warp charge of 6 it is pretty trivial for your weirdboy to get it off as well. A T8 16W vehicle is not easy to take out and will take dedicated resources from your opponent, especially if you have a KFF with the gunwagon. When it does go, there's a 50% of a d6 explosion so that is something to look out for.

Bottom line: 4d6 shots that dakka on 5s with "More Dakka". Reroll all misses including dakkas. That's a lot of S8 AP-2 2D shots that need to be saved. Very good against basically any of your opponents juicy targets, make sure they don't have the -1 damage ability though obviously. Very fun and I would suggest people try at least once if able.

Hey guys.

Am i supposed to understand "Da burnin' Highway" as you cant use this ability in Overwatch?

Also have anyone noticed that after the Chinork got updated it no longer has "Open Topped" ability? Its literally a scaffolding with rotors yet people cant shoot "out" of it? the official model dont even have side walls. whats to shoot "out" of anyway.

Do you think its a mistake that they didnt give it open topped?

You cannot use the stratagem during overwatch, but if you have used it during your shooting phase, the burna exhaust remain buffed until your next turn.
What you do is drive a KBB in a position where it might get charged, activate burning highway and set something on fire. When your opponent then charges you during his turn you can either scare him off by repeatedly talking about how much damage those burnas will do in overwatch, or you just pay a CP and scorch them.

And yes, the chinork has lost open topped. Either they wanted to nerf it dead or they didn't care. Pick one.

 Jidmah wrote:
You cannot use the stratagem during overwatch, but if you have used it during your shooting phase, the burna exhaust remain buffed until your next turn.
What you do is drive a KBB in a position where it might get charged, activate burning highway and set something on fire. When your opponent then charges you during his turn you can either scare him off by repeatedly talking about how much damage those burnas will do in overwatch, or you just pay a CP and scorch them.

And yes, the chinork has lost open topped. Either they wanted to nerf it dead or they didn't care. Pick one.

thanks thats useful information.

But it also means i accidentially cheated in my last game when i activated Da Burning highway during my overwatch phase. Whoops.

im a bit saddened by the loss of open topped for chinork though. I tend to transport Nobz in it with Big Choppas but when i got hold of Tank bustas they were meant to fly in and shoot. thats sad.

Ork boy spotted...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/794613.page

Discuss....

Well, it's not an ork boy in the conventional sense. It's a one off commemorative model like the Red Gobbo. I really like the old school call back but let's not get people riled up over a unique character model.

We'll see if they actually bother giving it rules with the release.

interesting....wonder what hes gonna do.
That looks like a bog standard shoota and choppa, and he has no mek bitz.

The heck could a "boy" do to justify being a character? And i mean boy, he doesnt even look like a Nob.

edit: nvm...thats not a normal release. i can almost guarantee thats a joke, limited release for legends. Again.

This is the plastic recast of a limited metal model released in the 90s on some special occasion. It was a nob with slugga & choppa rulewise.