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 TedNugent wrote:

tulun wrote:
I'd rather take 3 Mega Nobs than 10 boys + saw.

I just mean to fill out your mandatory troop slots, and one big 30 blob to mob them into so that they're not completely useless.

Honestly? Just don't take a battalion.

I can get enough slots from patrol + outrider/spearhead/vanguard for any list I want.

The loss of CP is sort of irrelevant, because Orks don't really need a bucket of CP right now. Without Loota / SSAG shoot twice + more dakka each turn, it feels like Orks CP consumption is really low.

Madjob wrote:


This FAQ seems to have managed to miss some of the glaring typos on other Ork IA data sheets.

Nice hit between the eyes! You' re absolutely right.

tulun wrote:
It only works with proper terrain, though, as the army is quite weak on the chin. But I could see it working out okay by trying to lean in to fully expect to get roughly tabled (minus your Big Meks hopefully) and just getting your other secondaries for sure and using your obsec army to bite / hold objectives.

Agree. He needs durability to protect the SAGs and hold the middle. It feels like terrain and luck was a factor.

I could see it work with KFF/Dok Tooled Boy blobs though as you want to prevent a breakthrough. An ablative shield to control your melee specialists engagements whilst the SAGs plus other shooty elements fires over the infantry.

The major upside is that you don´t really care about the fate of the midfield, as long you don´t get significantly behind on Primaries, due to most likely having more expected 2ndary VPs.

Is the SAG any good? It seemed pretty terrible for 120pts, the only real upside I saw was it being on a character. D6 shots with bs5+ seemed pretty rough, especially since you had to hope for a good strength roll and could always roll 1-2 damage with it.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Is the SAG any good? It seemed pretty terrible for 120pts, the only real upside I saw was it being on a character. D6 shots with bs5+ seemed pretty rough, especially since you had to hope for a good strength roll and could always roll 1-2 damage with it.

They used to be auto takes without any thought.

Now? Well. If you can keep them alive, and they are your While We Stand We Fight... they'll make their points back. 15 d6 Shock Attack Guns, shooting into a meta of elite infantry? Yeah, they'll do fine.

But generally they are not thought of as competitive.

The Look Out Sir! rule change alone was enough to dial the SAG back but they also ripped our amazing Super SAG relic away and made the damn thing 50% more expensive.

Yeah, it really was a combination of the specialist detachment's shoot twice strat, the relic, and the price that made the SAG as infamous as it was. As usual, GW overcorrected it when they saw how it was doing on the top tables. Given the current cost, the SAG should have a 2D6 or 3D3 shots baseline for their gun. Or keep them around the 80 point price like they were originally. We'll see how or if they touch it at all in the new Ork codex.

Is walker spam good for us this edition? I had some luck today with a 500 points list today featuring 5 Kanz, a Dread, and a Mega Mek with KFF and a Killsaw.

Also, for anyone thinking about it, nah, a 30 Grot mob is not good versus marines right now.

 Rismonite wrote:
Is walker spam good for us this edition? I had some luck today with a 500 points list today featuring 5 Kanz, a Dread, and a Mega Mek with KFF and a Killsaw.

Also, for anyone thinking about it, nah, a 30 Grot mob is not good versus marines right now.

Walker spam is largely limited from how they don't contest objectives very well and are a lot slower/less versatile than buggies, who have the mobility to easily reach their targets and, in the case of scrapjets, sometimes fight on par with our walkers when compared in terms of overall points. Kanz just don't do enough in terms of firepower and their CC is pretty limited outside of making them tin eadz, you're usually better off with meganobz in most cases if you want a CC block of tough dudes without giving away easy Bring it Down VP's.

Morkanaut with Sparkly Bitz is probably our best Walker model in terms of shooting and CC, but you can only buff one with Sparkly Bitz. The Mega Dread got a little more interesting as potential deep strike threat now that they had a price cut and change to the Mega Charga. Deff Dreadz aren't terrible (certainly better than Kanz) but don't have quite the survivability or oomph in either shooting or CC to outcompete our buggies. Gorkanaut unfortunately is outclassed by his shootier brother.

So you can definitely make a walker list and do alright in a semi-competitive context, just not in a real competitive setting. One new thing that added more interesting combos is Buzzgob's new command ability to give +1 to hit to Ork walkers, meaning you can buff a Goff Morkanaut to hitting on 3's which is practically unheard of. This is also another way to help circumvent the Kanz bad WS.

Hopefully our new codex addresses some of the issues pointswise or, more likely, give Ramshackle as standard to Ork vehicles across the board which will help our Walkers and make stuff like Dreaded Deff Machine something built into Dreads as a rule already.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Is walker spam good for us this edition? I had some luck today with a 500 points list today featuring 5 Kanz, a Dread, and a Mega Mek with KFF and a Killsaw.

Also, for anyone thinking about it, nah, a 30 Grot mob is not good versus marines right now.

Walker spam is largely limited from how they don't contest objectives very well and are a lot slower/less versatile than buggies, who have the mobility to easily reach their targets and, in the case of scrapjets, sometimes fight on par with our walkers when compared in terms of overall points. Kanz just don't do enough in terms of firepower and their CC is pretty limited outside of making them tin eadz, you're usually better off with meganobz in most cases if you want a CC block of tough dudes without giving away easy Bring it Down VP's.

Morkanaut with Sparkly Bitz is probably our best Walker model in terms of shooting and CC, but you can only buff one with Sparkly Bitz. The Mega Dread got a little more interesting as potential deep strike threat now that they had a price cut and change to the Mega Charga. Deff Dreadz aren't terrible (certainly better than Kanz) but don't have quite the survivability or oomph in either shooting or CC to outcompete our buggies. Gorkanaut unfortunately is outclassed by his shootier brother.

So you can definitely make a walker list and do alright in a semi-competitive context, just not in a real competitive setting. One new thing that added more interesting combos is Buzzgob's new command ability to give +1 to hit to Ork walkers, meaning you can buff a Goff Morkanaut to hitting on 3's which is practically unheard of. This is also another way to help circumvent the Kanz bad WS.

Hopefully our new codex addresses some of the issues pointswise or, more likely, give Ramshackle as standard to Ork vehicles across the board which will help our Walkers and make stuff like Dreaded Deff Machine something built into Dreads as a rule already.

I think you also need to capitalise on movement when it comes to our Walkers, as you said they are just slower buggies. So that means your either deepstriking them or you have to find a way to increase how fast they go and thats Evil Sunz. You loose out on the efficiency of Deffskulls and the accuracy/lethality of Goffs when taking Buzzgob. A mob of Deff Dreads with Orkymatic Pistons moving a min 11+ D6 then charging with a +1 if your using a Deffkilla to advance and charge can help them cross the gap, Morka/Gorka with someone inside with Rezmekka's Redder Armour to get the big boi moving atleast 10" and a Mega Dread to reliably make charges without the need for Ramming Speed. I think thats the way to go. Get them up on the points as fast as you can and body block objectives as best as you can.

But a pure Dreadwaaagh! force is most likely bound to crumple and fail. It just isnt killy, durable and numerous enough to hold onto primaries, score secondaries and also deny Bring it Down. Yeah ive been championing for DDM to be baked into our Walkers and Ramshackle to be more widespread, here is hoping we get it.

I know they're suboptimal due to point hikes, but what's the best way to use Flash Gitz these days, and what delivery method do you recommend? Does it change things if they're in a Freebootaz detachment? I'm planning to model a pirate ship for them, either on trakks (if they need to be in a BW), wheels (trukk) or underneath a zeppelin (chinork -- is that thing even allowed these days?). Forgeworld isn't a problem since I'll be kitbashing their transport, but I need to get an idea of what size I should build it before I start.

thanks!

-Coh

If they're Freebootas they might benefit from the klan's trait which gives them +1 to hit if triggered, so yeah things might change if they're Freebootas.

In 8th the best way to use them was to field a max squad shielded by tons of Gretchins and backed up by Mek Gunz in order to trigger the klan bonus with artillery and buff the Flash Gitz' armour save with Loot It when a Mek Gunz was wrecked.

At the moment I'd only play them as a 5 man squad in a Trukk. Too many points invested otherwise, plus Blast malus if they are 6 or more, and can still make us of Loot It if they're transport blows up.

Make sure to have a KFF aura and enough T5-8 models to avoid making them priority target.

6 in a kannon wagon might also be a decent idea.

 Jidmah wrote:
6 in a kannon wagon might also be a decent idea.

Agree, it seems a legit combination, however I see a few downsides here. First, weapons' ranges might be in conflict: Flash Gitz need to get closer at least for a turn while Kannon Wagon loves to stay away from possible threats (see Melta). They're also two Heavy Support choices instead of one and a higher investment of points.

 TedNugent wrote:
Are people still using Mob Up these days?

I was thinking it would be a good way to get multiple killsaws into a single unit and secure that +1 attack. It also makes it pretty interesting for Da Jump.

With the limited number of ranks that can engage in combat, I feel like that's a more efficient option. If I can cram just two dual killsaw nobs into front rank, that's 10 killsaw attacks.

I just don't want to take 90 boyz at 8 ppm. I find 30 boyz + 2 10 man units more appealing. I like the idea of moar hidden power klaws.

Arguably you could never get moar hidden power klaws than right now with green tide and mob up.

I have been pondering the use of Mob up to slingshot big mobs into combat and get them across the board faster. My theory is that, if I can throw a couple of trukks ahead of my army, but keep the slugga boys inside, and give the opponent bigger things to shoot like buggies and such, what with the fact that trukkboys are sub-par being common knowledge, and then turn 2 get the trukkboys out, move the big mob forward, mob up the two together and suddenly that 30 strong ork unit which was going to arrive in turn 3 is connecting on turn 2, and it's 40 boys instead of 30! they won't all get into the combat but it's 2D6" extra movement for the big mob and combat protection if the enemy can't retreat.

The other taktik, if it works out that way, is to get the trukkers around the back of a small enemy unit and within mob-up range of the big mob of boys, and then you have them surrounded. A lot of people will be running the maths that slugga-trukkas aren't going to hit too hard, and there's onyl so many orks can get in combat from over there. Suddenly the trukkas are getting an extra attack, and their unit is completely surrounded.

I'm also-also considering using a mob of boys in a wagon with 2 trukks as backup. Turn 1 rush forwards, turn 2 disembark, mob up & charge, turn 3 mob up with the other trukkas to plug holes in the unit and then go after more enemies!


In other news, had a brief game this weekend against necrons, I ran 3 killtanks (2 bursta one giga), with 2 KFF meks, 5 meganobs, 20 gretchin, waaagh! banner nob and a runtherd. Not sure why I brought the runtherd, to be honest, I think I just wanted to see how he did. Killtanks are beastly against armies counting on high damage weapons (I ramshackled the one-shot 6 damage tachyon arrow down to 1 damage, that was nice!). Alas we only made it to turn 2, with him just scraping through enough damage to kill one killtank and me managing to decimate a few chunks of his army in return. Could have gone either way, but he had a lot of objectives on turn 2 so got 15 points to my 0. ended at 32-18, I believe. didn't chalk it up as it only lasted 2 turns and so isn't a satisfying conclusion. I forgot a lot of my stratagems and only remembered ramshackle once, so yeah, I did a bit poorly!
Next time I'm running the same list but scrapping deathskulls (thought falling back & shooting would be worth it; it isn't) and probably going for deathskulls. It's such a shame killtanks get +1 to hit and not +1BS in half range, or I would absolutely be taking freebootas! Taktic is to roll forward shooting, drop grots on objectives, and then combine ramming speed and the stratagem to charge again to hopefully plough through a weak unit and into another, with 2D3 MW and 3D6" charge, which (by my reading) affects both charges in that phase, so could easily move an extra 24" with 2 long charges and mortal wounds! Killtanks are also awesome in close combat ,and chew through elites with 3 wounds amazingly well! I hadn't expected to get 8 S9 AP-1 Dam3 attacks!

 some bloke wrote:

I'm also-also considering using a mob of boys in a wagon with 2 trukks as backup. Turn 1 rush forwards, turn 2 disembark, mob up & charge, turn 3 mob up with the other trukkas to plug holes in the unit and then go after more enemies!

I play this combination a lot. 18 boyz + big mek with KFF and warboss in a wagon and 2x10 trukk boyz. Wagon and one trukk rush forward, deploy their cargo and boyz mob up into a 28 man blob with two nobz. I quite like it as all involved units are cheap enough to worth the effort, even if grand plan is ruined in turn 1 by going second. I typically rush the second trukk into a different direction but it can also join the party in turn 3.

I had a recent game on TTS with a friend of mine using White Scars against me, his list was with Korsarro Khan, a chief apothecary, 2 squads of inceptors, a jump pack lieutenant and a jump pack chapter master with the teeth of terra, 2 10 man squads of intercessors, a squad of scouts, 2 squads of infiltrators and an 8 man squad of Vanguard Vets with lightning claws and SS. It was a game I thought I would lose badly since I was using a very mechanized list with very little bodies so I wasn't sure if I could contest well enough.

Here was my list.



Luckily, I got first turn and we were playing Sweep and Clear. I went for Engage on All Fronts, Assassinate and the Mission secondary, Direct Assault, which meant I had to hold the middle for 3 VP or 5VP for holding the middle and enemy objective.

The first turn I drove my bursta and my gigashoota kill tank into the center and blasted half of an intercessor squad and killed a few in the other, unfortunately he chose to use Transhuman Physiology so my Bursta did less damage than it should have. I pushed on the left flank with my scrapjets alongside my killa klaw boss against one of the neutral objectives that he hwas holding with infiltrators. Luckily, I managed to roll high enough for my advance rolls that I was able to promptly dispatch the infiltrators between my Warboss and the skrapjet. I made the mistake of charging my bursta kill tank into one of the intercessors squads so I could get the jump on him. I did kill a few with my flat 3 damage (tasty!) but their return attacks did a lot more damage than I expected due to them being supported by their HQ bubble behind them. The way I positioned my charge with the Kill Tank allowed my opponent to pile in towards the objective in the center I was trying to hold, making me lose it in the process (whoops!) and miss out on an early 3 VP for Direct Assault. I moved towards the left neutral objective with my other Kill Tank with Gigashoota

On my opponent's turn he fell back with his intercessors and brought his inceptors out of cover and promptly slagged my kill tank bursta with all the HQ buffs he could muster. He charged his intercessors into the other kill tank that was in the middle, though he didn't do too much damage, he was trying to hold me off from moving toward the center objective. His vanguard squad also came out to play against my kill tank threatening the neutral objective, supported by Khan who went after one of my shokkjump dragstas nearby. That +1 to wound and reroll to wounds and the adaptive strategy stratagem that let the whole squad count as being in all doctrines did real work against my kill tank, bringing it down to 4 wounds. Khan destroyed the dragsta and he got the lead with his Titan Killer secondary and Domination. The only area he miscalculated was charging my Kill Tank in the middle, as he only inflicted one wound while I killed 3 in return, leaving on a single guy left but enough to hold the central objective from me.

I fought back in my T2, my friend was nice enough to tell me about the Butchering Quarry strat that lets a WS player inflict hits on a retreating unit so I kept my barely alive Kill Tank in combat with the Vanguard Vets rather than fall back. I sent my Warboss on Warbike that was my warlord against the Khan and deployed the Meganobz inside the almost dead Kill Tank against the Infiltrators currently holding that neutral objective. In the middle, I shot at the Inceptor squad with my only unbracketed Kill Tank and killed a few and flamed the guy in front of the center objective to no avail. I started advancing my scrapjets on the left side to the center, taking a few potshots at the Inceptors. I jumped one of Shokkjump dragstas to where the Khan was to try and snipe him but my opponent passed all his iron halo saves for him. This forced me to commit my warboss to killing him rather than the VV, but luckily my Kill Tank rolled like Gork had blessed it himself and shot at the VV in combat with him, reducing them to only 3 VV left. Unfortunately for me, my opponent's luck in passing invuln saves continued, and due to using transhuman again on the Khan, I only reduced him to 2 wounds, and the Khan proceeded to reduce my Warboss on Bike warlord to 2 wounds as well. My Meganobz fared even worse, barely killing two infiltrators on the right neutral objective, and suffered two wounds in return. The VV were able to finish off my Killtank sadly. The only area where I won my fight was in the center, where I ran over the last intercessor holding the center.

On my opponent's T2, my opponent started his counter attack, once again unloading into my Kill Tank with his Inceptors being buffed up and some coming back due to his blasted Apothecary. He ended up killing my Kill Tank in the middle by finishing it off between the Chapter Master, the Lieutenant and the Inceptors, while one of the Inceptor units went back into his deployment zone to deploy scramblers. His scouts showed up to deploy scramblers in my deployment zone and the Khan fell back to charge my Warboss on Warbike. The VV charged into my Meganobz while having the Infiltrators fall back. Needless to say, my Warboss died. Things were looking bad for me here.

T3 was the turning point, as my Scrapjets were finally able to reach the middle and really started letting loose against the Inceptor squad currently shielding the characters holding the middle. I got super lucky and got the box cars I needed for one of my Scrapjets to get a charge against the Inceptors from behind a wall so they couldn't over watch and he even got 3 mortal wounds off his 4+ proc ability. As a result, the meganobz with killsaws were able to get in unmolested with the charge. The shokkjump dragsta teleported over to the now exposed Apothecary and shot at him, bringing him down to 1 wound which I finished off with a skrapjet. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do much to the CM and the Lieutenant. Luckily, after using the Hit Them Harder strat for the Meganobz, even with transhuman protection I was able to get exactly the amount of wounds needed to wipe out the Inceptors. I also managed to shoot up the scout squad down to just the sergeant, who would prove to be a very annoying thorn in my side.

T3 for my opponent was where he kinda threw the game. He should have just played keep away with his characters, but he decided to gamble destroying my vehicles with his current units to stop my board control. Unfortunately for him he whiffed on several crucial wound rolls and that meant that although the majority of my units were tied in combat and wounded, my following turn allowed me to shoot into combat, which combined with combat, assassinate several key characters that gave me the points for assassinate and direct assault now that the center was mine. I also used one of the freed dragstas to kill the remaining infiltrators and take control of the whole board. Hilariously, throughout the last 2 turns, the lone scout sergeant went after my grots and methodically killed them in combat, where they surprisingly only ever lost one person to morale consistently before finally meeting their end at the end of T4, which allowed him to take my home objective, but at that point he was literally the only model he had left on the table.

Our game ended with it being 84 points to my opponent's 79. Really brutal, bloody and close game. I really thought my opponent just had the win mid-game, but I guess that's why you play through the whole game through.

Shout out to Tulun helping me formulate this list, the meganobz choice was a real good call. Also, I tried making the bursta cannon work, but I think it's just too variable and easily countered by stuff like transhuman to make it worth paying the extra 50 points. You also can't shoot into combat with it.

Overall, the Kill Tanks were fun, but I feel like my buggies did more than they did comparatively speaking. At best they were distraction carnifexes. Might have to do a bit with my aggressive deployment of them, but I'm not sure.

Well, next game with my long time tune up buggy list and finaly I had the feeling that I play it right and that I know what happen next and why and what are my models capable of.

List:


Couple of issiues I have presented there already but I feel, it' s a time to do some sumary:

0. I play Engage, Deploy Fungus, 3rd according the enemy and mission.

1. General game plan =
1.1 - T1 and T2 - feed enemy antitank with -1 hit 5++ planes scaring him to death and start killing enemy antitank with shockjumps, smashas, wazboom, and little bit of scrapjets. The key is keep scrapjets safe, you will need them later and DO NOT EADBUTT the Flyier unless you have realy juicy target to do 20+ dmg or the plane is almost dead. Their value is to keep the rest of you army safe and waste his anti tank shots on -1 hit targets. And help with Engage.
1.2 - In the same time both transports move forward and depending on situation charge, or keep in cover to charge T2. Plus BW works like a riding LOS blocking wall to keep scrapjets safe.
1.3 - Smashagunz spread as much as possible to make perfect screen. half or more of them usually advance. It doesn' t matter they can' t shoot after advance. Due the blocking LOS they can't shoot 60% of the game. But they are cheap and they CAN shoot, if enemy is stupid enough to drive in their LOS and this makes his moves harder.
1.4 - All moves optimized to
- screen as much of the table as possible in T1 and T2 to block his deepstriking dudes (pretty commen here.. skip this in case there are no DS enemies)
- get max of Engage.
1.5 - I have 3 units of Kommandos in DS. Two of them are super cheap and one of them are with the PK Nob. At least one barebone kommandos drop in T2 and T3 to do the scrablers. And if they can afterwards stay on objective and hold it, nice. Nob Kommandos drop to the enemy lines to annoy or to my lines to help defend.
1.7 - I keep my objective and try to control or keep in “no mans land” the midfield objectives.
1.8 - on the end of T3 most of his antitank is dead or “under control” and I hold cca half of the table. All planes destroied and both transports destroid and the Boyz with characters are on the rage. Baldruk in the middle on the building or something like this. As much as possible of Scrapjets is alive. Scramblers done. Engage scored to at least at least 7VP. My Primaries doesn't matter so much, plan is to score 2x15 in last 2 turns. Important are his Primaries, I need to keep him as low as possible. 5VP from T3 is almost mandatory.
1.9 - Around the T3 and after all his DS dropped my advance start. Smashagunz runz to final postitions to crossfire crucial objectives. Scrapjets forward to the midfield objectives or on one of his own. I always chose on of his own objectives and ignore it and focus on the rest. I even drop my home objective if necessary to get smashgunz to right position. The primaries should in T3 and no later than T4 1 objective holds the enemy, 2 are mine, the rest is no mans land.

Comments:
2.1 Grot mob does not helps the smashgunz so much with hit 1 reroll but helps a lot with 6++
2.2 Kaptin Baldruk is the beast for the fair price! Kills a lot, hides well. And if you sit him on the top of the building and park the BW behind and keep them 3” away, he' s immortal
2.3 Scrapjets + corkscrew is the key. No more discuss about squig tyres. When I found how to use it, Crokscrew is the best. Just keep scrapjets safe until the final stage, when antitank is gone!
2.4 Big Trukk is perfect! Finaly cheap transport that can kill something. One round of shooting and then charge with Ramming speed positivelly kill the small units of scions or such stuff. And the speed is perfect. Vanila Trukk is useless garbage in compare.
2.5 Smashagunz - well, cheap screening body.... I' working on KBB' s right now, from January I will try to change some SMG to KBB and try combinations with 1, 2 or 3 KBBs and 4, 2, 0 SMGs. Or maybe 2xKBB and one more Dragsta. SMG unreliability and bad movement and permanetly blocked LOS makes me angry. Plus my army has a serious lack of anti infantry.
2.6 Only strategems I use are - Ramming speed, Emergency disemark (that is really cool btw - disembark behind the building? Bloody yess) and command rerolls. And sometimes Get stuck in ladz and Ork is never beaten. Nothing more.
2.7 “Keep scrapjets safe in back” is also a good solution of “Traffic jam issue”. Dragstas and transports have a space to position right - see and not be seen.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd be surprised if they make nauts LoW. They keep stuffing the idea of multiple nauts down our throat, if anything they'd do something to incentivize bringing multiples.

Well actually just like the Killtanks, Nauts becoming LoW does sit perfectly well with GW stuffing the idea of multiple nauts down our throat. Because 3 nauts will then have a klan trait, whereas one or two will mean aux super heavy detachment, so no klan traits whatsoever.

IMHO they are not really big enough to fit the LoW weight class, and are perfectly fine in the "big" heavy support slot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

tulun wrote:
Someone won a small RT with this Ork list:

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=30519

Cheeky bugger. He used the SAG meks as a while we stand we fight choice, and basically his entire army is Obsec and infantry.

That's clever. I love when people think VP strategically and not just the ever yammer on how to best kill stuff (cuz more dead models always equals more win...right?). I bet it threw most opponents that suddenly they had to reach the Orks dz whilst fighting the midfield primary objectives game. A much harder thing to do than the normal fight-the-middle and circle around for Engage and Scramblers.

There´s an added bonus that he probably had an easier time screening out his dz to negate enemy Scramblers too. Win win

Kunnin' Ork there.

But yeah, I agree. It only works with proper terrain, though, as the army is quite weak on the chin. But I could see it working out okay by trying to lean in to fully expect to get roughly tabled (minus your Big Meks hopefully) and just getting your other secondaries for sure and using your obsec army to bite / hold objectives.

This list is absolutely terrible, even more so in the current meta of harlequins, Sm with eradicators and Demon armies. How on earth did he do anything with it is beyond me, even at an RTT. Terrain or no terrain, I feel the list hits like a wet noodle, and has no durability at all. Yes it has ob sec, but 5 stormboyz dont nab an objective for more than one turn. And it also has no great way of removing troops, so I don't thinks it's that good on objective playing, unless you are up against custodes or harlequins maybe.
The trukks are probably used to protect the SAGs, which makes a total cost of close to 500 points for 2 trukks and 3d6 SAG shots (indeed with losts of rerolls, true).

I think the player is REALLY good, like Richard Siegler good (or the opponents were really caught off guard by the weirdness of such a list, and misplayed a lot), because this has to be hands down the worst 9th ed ork list (in the current AT focused meta) to have ever won a tournament (list that I know of).

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, next game with my long time tune up buggy list and finaly I had the feeling that I play it right and that I know what happen next and why and what are my models capable of.

I'm also quite fond of Badrukk, IMHO it's the best choice for the second smaller detachment that has a klan trait that doesn't give any benefit to the HQ like the grot mobz one. I'm sure it's just a mistake, but maybe there's something I'm missing so I ask you anyway: why the third squad of kommandos is part of the grot detachment instead of being Deathskulls?

 Grimskul wrote:
I

Shout out to Tulun helping me formulate this list, the meganobz choice was a real good call. Also, I tried making the bursta cannon work, but I think it's just too variable and easily countered by stuff like transhuman to make it worth paying the extra 50 points. You also can't shoot into combat with it.

Overall, the Kill Tanks were fun, but I feel like my buggies did more than they did comparatively speaking. At best they were distraction carnifexes. Might have to do a bit with my aggressive deployment of them, but I'm not sure.

Congrats on the win! Sounds hard earned, that sounds like a real White Scars list.

The bursta did allow your 2 mega nob units to be unaccosted ( if I read this right) -- as they were in the Giga KT. So that's something. But yeah, although Kill tanks can fall back and shoot natively, you gotta Blood Axes or Evil Suns to get both. Transhuman is such a cancerous stratagem. I can't believe they made it *cheaper*, even if it's Primaris only.

addnid wrote:

I think the player is REALLY good, like Richard Siegler good (or the opponents were really caught off guard by the weirdness of such a list, and misplayed a lot), because this has to be hands down the worst 9th ed ork list (in the current AT focused meta) to have ever won a tournament (list that I know of).

The player is probably not Richard Siegler good, but is one of the best 40k players in Australia and is a pioneer of Ork strategy (inventing 8th Mega Nob list that made a splash). I wouldn't dismiss the list as soundly as you did, but it might require expert piloting. But that doesn't make the list bad.

 Blackie wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, next game with my long time tune up buggy list and finaly I had the feeling that I play it right and that I know what happen next and why and what are my models capable of.

I'm also quite fond of Badrukk, IMHO it's the best choice for the second smaller detachment that has a klan trait that doesn't give any benefit to the HQ like the grot mobz one. I'm sure it's just a mistake, but maybe there's something I'm missing so I ask you anyway: why the third squad of kommandos is part of the grot detachment instead of being Deathskulls?

I use the Patrol - just 2 troops - and patrol can have max 2 Elites.

My mistake then, I never play many elites and I thought patrol allowed 3-4 elites, as the battallion allows 6.

 Blackie wrote:
My mistake then, I never play many elites and I thought patrol allowed 3-4 elites, as the battallion allows 6.

Yeah playing with the different options patrol / batalion / vanguard was part of the tuning up. Complicated stuff... patrol was the best for this pourpos and who cares about no bonuses for naked kommandos dedicated to deploy and die. Just the obsec is a pitty. But if you want to use 2 detachements, this was the best option. Vanguard cost you more command points.

Hey guys. When using the deffkilla wartrikes killa jet attacks, so you have to pick one or the other profile? Im assuming you do.

Yes, it's essentially the same as a kombi-skorcha or the klaw of gork(or mork).

I See.

Well Merry Christmas everyone, for Christmas i received, a gorkanaut (or mork), a scrapjet, dragsta, battlewagon and mega nobz.

Oh and a AOS warchanter and weirdboy for 40k weirdboy conversions.

Cheers!!

Beardedragon wrote:
I See.

Well Merry Christmas everyone, for Christmas i received, a gorkanaut (or mork), a scrapjet, dragsta, battlewagon and mega nobz.

Oh and a AOS warchanter and weirdboy for 40k weirdboy conversions.

Cheers!!

Congrats on the big haul of loot! That will all serve you very well in the WAAAGH!'s you have to come.

Merry WAAAGH!mas everybody, Santy Klawz is coming to town and I'm assuming you've all been good grots this year, so expect a lot of dakka in your stockings!

Merry Xmas Boyz
This is my first time posting so I hope it goes to the right place lol
First off wanna say thank you to Jidmah for all the patience and good info in this thread
Lot of gems in here but after reading all 90+ pages I was frustrated to see how much complaining is going on despite the rules of the thread.
Been playing orks for 20+ years and if you don’t like green tide or don’t think it’s fun I am legit confused as to why you choose orks in the first place. Green tide is, always has been and always will be the optimal archetype for Ork lists. If you think 90+ boys are too expensive tell me how you feel after buying 10+ monopose buggies LOL. Green Tide works because it’s good not because people are building lists to play against primaris. Yes it works differently than it has in previous editions and the Boyz are not gonna kill whatever they charge but they also won’t get killed by morale either. I find the most success comes when you stick everything together you can’t peel off one squad of boys and expect them to be effective on their own anymore.

Before I get to my questions I wanna throw down some things that have been working for me in 9th edition that I haven’t seen in the thread.
1 Nobs in a truck with killsawz & big choppaz move onto objective when the truck gets popped loot it and now you have 3+ with all the killing power and more attacks than MANZ
2 headwoppa’s killchoppa on the warboss is a cheap alternative to the kills klaw and very effective at killing primaris plus it lets you give killa klaw to painboy or big Mek who desperately need more killing power
3 charge one target with multiple units seems obvious but it is really a necessity with how orks play in 9th

Now on too my questions
1 can you give a banner nob lucky stick does it stack?

2 mork or gork for a Goff tide list? Leaning hard towards gork but saw a lot of love for the mork in this thread

3 been playing a lot of primaris (surprise) and been very successful against blood angels but dark angels are giving my goffs a lot of trouble the opponent who I play who I always would stomp until the update now is seemingly impossible to deal with due to his death wing list having literally every model in the “inner circle” meaning can’t be wounded on a 4+ effectively ruling out skarboyz and pretty much all ork close combat weapons. I would assume people would say smash a guns are a good counter but I really don’t want to give up another secondary when I already give up thin their ranks and assassinate with my character heavy Goff tide.

Greenblood wrote:
1 Nobs in a truck with killsawz & big choppaz move onto objective when the truck gets popped loot it and now you have 3+ with all the killing power and more attacks than MANZ

You can't disembark (and charge) after moving though, and the big advantage of MANz in 9th is that they can kill pretty much everything off an objective and then hold it despite being under fire.
A trukk won't be able to take an objective from a marines unit, and nobz are quite likely to take heavy casualties from something like shuriken, haywire guns or doctrine-charged primaris bolters.
Flipping objectives is the key to winning games, and MANz just do that job better.

2 headwoppa’s killchoppa on the warboss is a cheap alternative to the kills klaw and very effective at killing primaris plus it lets you give killa klaw to painboy or big Mek who desperately need more killing power

I really like the killchoppa and have run it on several occasions, but in reality it's the kill klaw that is bringing a warboss or MA mek to carry it, not the other way around. You just want to have the best ork you can get to wield this close combat weapon of mass distruction.
And primaris really aren't the thing you want to go hunting with it - vehicles, monsters, gravis and terminators are what you want to smash with it. Other things can easily be ground down by other tools.

3 charge one target with multiple units seems obvious but it is really a necessity with how orks play in 9th

Not when you are running goff tide. The extra attacks from the trait, the extra strength for skar boyz and Thrakka's auras make most units powerful enough to just wipe the enemy. In addition, the 1/2" rule more often that no means that you won't get more boyz in combat, no matter how much stuff you charge in. When I charge one thing with multiple units, it's usually to gain speed or to make really, really sure that something is dead. Units with dangerous overwatch are rare, but they do exist. Don't charge a warboss into a Foul Blightspawn, for example.

Now on too my questions
1 can you give a banner nob lucky stick does it stack?

Yes, kind of. Characters within 6" would gain +2 to hit, which would cap out at +1 after all modifiers are applied. Since most characters have -1 to hit from their PK or killsaw, it would yield +1 to hit for any klaw wielder.

2 mork or gork for a Goff tide list? Leaning hard towards gork but saw a lot of love for the mork in this thread

The gork works best when tellyporting in, gun down something with the kustomized giga shoota and then slam into some hard target with ramming speed. Without an invulnerable save it tends to die the turn after it appears though, so make sure to leave a path of destruction behind.
The mork can have a KFF and the sparkly bits upgrade which turns it into a fairly reliable anti-tank unit and reduces the shooting against your army in turn 1, both things are something orks can use really well.

The competitive answer is that neither has any business being in a tide, as orks should never mix blobs of infantry and vehicles. In a less competitive environment, you should be able to get away with it though, as it's not a horrible unit.

The pragmatic answer is to just magnetize the thing. It's not super easy to do, but essentially you just need to magnetize the KFF on top and the main gun.

3 been playing a lot of primaris (surprise) and been very successful against blood angels but dark angels are giving my goffs a lot of trouble the opponent who I play who I always would stomp until the update now is seemingly impossible to deal with due to his death wing list having literally every model in the “inner circle” meaning can’t be wounded on a 4+ effectively ruling out skarboyz and pretty much all ork close combat weapons. I would assume people would say smash a guns are a good counter but I really don’t want to give up another secondary when I already give up thin their ranks and assassinate with my character heavy Goff tide.

Your opponent can't pick both assasinate and bring them down, as they are from the same category.
Since I don't own mek guns and the guy who used to lend them to me is no longer available, my answer to deathwing is Thrakka, killa klaw warboss/mekboss or MANz with the hit 'em harder stratagem. Every failed 4++ safe is a dead terminator.