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Kans while better due to additions of grot subkulture and mek boss buzzgrob. Still aren’t as good as mega nobs which you can compare.

Still I have hope with some minor changes to the next codex they can fix them by allowing subkultures to stack with kultures and updating weapon profiles. Also Hopefully expanding kustom jobs to include benefits to kans.

gungo wrote:
Kans while better due to additions of grot subkulture and mek boss buzzgrob. Still aren’t as good as mega nobs which you can compare.

Still I have hope with some minor changes to the next codex they can fix them by allowing subkultures to stack with kultures and updating weapon profiles. Also Hopefully expanding kustom jobs to include benefits to kans.

I'll look at the points for the MANZ. Hadn't realized they were close in points. But I know they're probably better.

So I'm still wanting to give the new Killtank rules a roll, building a list that may not win any tournies but should do relatively okay regardless.

My thoughts are a detachment of Deffskull Killtanks, 2 shoota 1 bursta with a weirdboy or two casting mechanical seizures where possible to boost the ap of the shootas. Backing that up with some trukks filled with boyz also of Deffskulz to make the klaws and rokkits a bit more reliable. That leaves me with roughly 300pts left to play with and i'm wondering if I should use it to make some nob squads to ride in the shoota killtanks (which I plan to ram down the centerfield) or to grab some more T8 vehicles to bulk out the armoured push. A pair of Battlewagons with Deffrollas come to mind.

I'd say magnetizing the dreads is good because it makes transporting them less painful too! I can't tell you the number of times the law has broken off mine...

Yes.....

For the most part my orks are just loose models, orks are surprisingly safe to do that with as they rarely have thin pokey bits that get hooked and snap.

Except the dreads/kanz, those arms SUCK when they get tangled and it happens a LOT

cody.d. wrote:
So I'm still wanting to give the new Killtank rules a roll, building a list that may not win any tournies but should do relatively okay regardless.

My thoughts are a detachment of Deffskull Killtanks, 2 shoota 1 bursta with a weirdboy or two casting mechanical seizures where possible to boost the ap of the shootas. Backing that up with some trukks filled with boyz also of Deffskulz to make the klaws and rokkits a bit more reliable. That leaves me with roughly 300pts left to play with and i'm wondering if I should use it to make some nob squads to ride in the shoota killtanks (which I plan to ram down the centerfield) or to grab some more T8 vehicles to bulk out the armoured push. A pair of Battlewagons with Deffrollas come to mind.

I tried a very similar list to you, except I went hard on having buggies as support rather than using trukk boyz (I had a single unit of grotz as troops). I'm hesitant to suggest Weirdboyz because of how useful the 2 Warboss on Warbikes were in my list by providing hard hitting counter-attack units that I hid behind the kill tanks when they were inevitably engaged. Weirdboyz also have the unfortunate issue of not being that reliable casting Maniakal Seizures since you'll likely only get a +1 to their cast if you're lucky with the boyz being around him. If you want Nobz, I would heavily suggest a couple of 3 man squad of Meganobz with Killsawz since they did work as a backup payload for the Kill Tanks since it acts as a deterrent for your opponent to send in their units to attack them in CC immediately and gives them a way to help contest objectives they move towards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yes.....

For the most part my orks are just loose models, orks are surprisingly safe to do that with as they rarely have thin pokey bits that get hooked and snap.

Except the dreads/kanz, those arms SUCK when they get tangled and it happens a LOT

Yeah, I've had at least one dread where the damn klaw kept breaking off and I've reglued it on at least 5 times.

The smoke stacks/vents are the ones that break off the most for me though. For one of them I just gave up and kept them off.

 Grimskul wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
So I'm still wanting to give the new Killtank rules a roll, building a list that may not win any tournies but should do relatively okay regardless.

My thoughts are a detachment of Deffskull Killtanks, 2 shoota 1 bursta with a weirdboy or two casting mechanical seizures where possible to boost the ap of the shootas. Backing that up with some trukks filled with boyz also of Deffskulz to make the klaws and rokkits a bit more reliable. That leaves me with roughly 300pts left to play with and i'm wondering if I should use it to make some nob squads to ride in the shoota killtanks (which I plan to ram down the centerfield) or to grab some more T8 vehicles to bulk out the armoured push. A pair of Battlewagons with Deffrollas come to mind.

I tried a very similar list to you, except I went hard on having buggies as support rather than using trukk boyz (I had a single unit of grotz as troops). I'm hesitant to suggest Weirdboyz because of how useful the 2 Warboss on Warbikes were in my list by providing hard hitting counter-attack units that I hid behind the kill tanks when they were inevitably engaged. Weirdboyz also have the unfortunate issue of not being that reliable casting Maniakal Seizures since you'll likely only get a +1 to their cast if you're lucky with the boyz being around him. If you want Nobz, I would heavily suggest a couple of 3 man squad of Meganobz with Killsawz since they did work as a backup payload for the Kill Tanks since it acts as a deterrent for your opponent to send in their units to attack them in CC immediately and gives them a way to help contest objectives they move towards.

Fair points Grim, but I do feel that seizures is just too valuable for the Killtanks. The CCW profile in particular is awesome, except for that -1 ap. Pushing that to a -2 is pretty darn nice. To say nothing of 30 ap-3 shots. I really feel that it'll help squeeze extra value out of the tanks. (bugger, just realized that the weirdboy relic won't work due to GW rules writing jank) But a big chunky unit of 30boyz surrounding the weirdboy is tempting. Also used to bubblewrap the bursta which I plan to have sitting sliiightly back due to blast. The Shoota tanks can fire into combat with no major loss If the enemy manages to fully wrap them (The titanic rule is darn handy right now)

But yeah, the idea of ploughing up the field with the killtanks, spewing out dakka then unloading some obsec meganobz off to the side is a rather enticing game plan. I just feel that even with their decent defensive stats having distractions is too valuable.

 posermcbogus wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
Oooh, man, I was worried I'd get this answer. I actually am pretty confident that I could magnetize the dread pretty well. My local hobby shop has plenty of magnet bits, and after the hell that was/is my custodes, a nice big model like the dread seems comparatively easy. That said, I kinda hate the idea of all the work it involves, especially if I'm gonna buy more (in my dreams). In terms of, I guess the idea of how the unit works, and what has worked for you in the past, if, hypothetically, you were to glue, not magnetize, is there any load out you'd go for?

Honestly? If you have to glue it, I would suggest selling it for another model.

Wow, what great advice. You are very helpful.

If you do not want to magnetize I would consider what Klan you like the most and are likely to play it the most as.

If it's a shooty klan I would pick 2 klaws and 2 big shootas for badmoons, or 2 klaws and 2 rokkits for Deffskulls. If its goffs or another melee centric klan I would just go 2 klaws and 2 saws.

I am a lazy magnetizer, so I glued 2 klaws on my deff dreads and magnetized 2x rokkits on each. I kept the other weapon bits and will magnetize them if I think they are better options. My magnet job looks very similiar to Jidmahs that he posted- same magnets etc.

I am not a fan of going saws over klaws, I play in a marine and vehicle heavy group so I have some bias- but if I ever go back to a tournament I would still take klaws over saws mainly because of the S10 and 3D, you double T5, you auto kill 3W models with 1 failed save, and a less failed saves to kill vehicles. I just don't think the few points you save for saws are worth what you lose on that platform. I think having at least 2 klaws is pretty important.


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 addnid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you delete a unit using most of your shooty units, then the +1 isn't that useful anymore because you don't have enough shots left which will benefit from the +1 to hit. That is what we are saying. That is why Freebooters is garabage in too many match ups to be viable in a TAC list. At least in my opinion. Custodes can be very hard to remove (-1 to hit hurts orks a lot more than other armies), harlequins can hide and stack defensive buffs, tyranids can stack defensive buffs (-1 to hit also), etc.

Now in casual games I think it may be potent. But casual games is not a thing where I play.

If we had some indirect shots back (they moved to legend i think), then we could be on to something though (not even sure I would take it though, too dicey for me)

Freebooterz are a cool idea, but their klan trait will almost never come into play. I don't think what it gives is good enough for how hard it is to go off. I haven't gotten a lot of games in for 9th so haven't had a chance to retest it- 9th seems to have a slant towards MSU for some of the more prolific armies so it may play better but there is also a lot more terrain so shooting happens less than before.

The problem with the freebooterz bonus is that you often don't kill that many units a turn. Especially early on, turn 1-2 if you are playing a shooting heavy army you may kill an enemy unit after you have dedicated a lot of your shooting- meaning the benefit is minimal after that.

On the bonus side you can make it go off during shooting or assault phases so there is potential for it to benefit there.

Units which can both shoot and fight okay coupled with a few units which can shoot well and a few units which can fight well may see some mileage out of it, but ultimately I think to make it work well you have to play a little differently. In previous editions a strong dark eldar tactic was to glance lots of enemy vehicles with dark lances just to shake or stun them, then shoot other targets that turn. Effectively you don't kill much but you set up kill and reduce the enemies ability to shoot you on their turn. I think to make freebooterz work you need to do something similiar where you either focus on killing something easy to make the effect go off at the start of your shooting/assault phase - or you spread the damage out turn 1 and 2 where you try to not really kill enemy units but inflict multiple casualties across multiple units so you have chance to make the effect go off much easier in future turns for either shooting and or assault. Even then it sounds like making the game harder to win and not as good as other klan kultures.

Crucial improvement in FAQ - Nob bikers have a points for double killsaw, so the discuss, how do they drive can start again

 Tomsug wrote:
Crucial improvement in FAQ - Nob bikers have a points for double killsaw, so the discuss, how do they drive can start again

They drive with their gobz, obviously

 Tomsug wrote:
Crucial improvement in FAQ - Nob bikers have a points for double killsaw, so the discuss, how do they drive can start again

Irrelevant, since nob bikers do not have permission to switch their slugga. Double killsaws remain illegal. See below for the datasheet:

But codex biker nobz can still replace both weapons. Are they allowed or people are forced to use the FW datasheet now?

It's not explicitly spelled out anywhere, but in general you are expected to use the newest datasheet - especially since their battlefield role has changed.

codex bikernobz are also 5pts more expensive than FW bikernobz

so theyre paying a lot more than you'd initially think to get that +1 attack. Even if it was legal, not worth it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
codex bikernobz are also 5pts more expensive than FW bikernobz

so theyre paying a lot more than you'd initially think to get that +1 attack. Even if it was legal, not worth it.

Pretty much this. Until there's a significant change to klan traits or strats regarding Biker unitz that make them more potent as a unit anyways, there's plenty of other units that do their job more effectively.

On the other hand you can field them with a pair of sluggaz... cause... Rule of Cool?

cody.d. wrote:
On the other hand you can field them with a pair of sluggaz... cause... Rule of Cool?

You joke about that, but given how GW has been pumping out a lot of xenos gunslinger characters recently, it wouldn't surprise me if they gave us a Mek or Kommando character with dual kustom sluggas that can kill himself when he rolls ones to hit. I would give them bonus points if he was riding while standing on a warbike's handles.

You're not wrong, the gunslinger archetype has been floating around a bunch recently. (I blame the Ork Warboss, been rocking dual sluggaz for a while now.)

But a mek character or maybe a freeboota with a pair of snazzsluggas would certainly be fun. If they're cheap enough to slot into a list here and there I can see them being taken.

Yeah, because outside of the Deffskullz warlord trait that let's you snipe if you're within 18" of an enemy, we don't have any ability to target characters when they're screened. Always thought that was what targeting squigs would be for, but in any case, it would fill a niche we currently don't really have in our army.

Grot Snipers need to happen already.
It makes sense for grots to have sniper rifles anyway, they have better BS and are cowardly gitz.

Honestly I'm not sure if orks should have the ability to snipe. Mind you I'm talking more of design philosophies for an army vs balance and having a toolbox with the tools other armies have. Factions should have things they can and can't do in my opinion. (but that is just my opinion of course.) If said theoretical ork gunslinger was something besides a ranged beatstick i'd prefer if he had the ability to "tag" an enemy unit, maybe launch sticky flares that strip cover, modifiers or give a hit bonus.

But is that in the ork theme? It's not really an army supporting one another as much as a bunch of showoffs who think they're the best trying to outdo one another. "You hit them hard? Well i'll hit em harder!" "You ripped the arm of a marine? I'll rip the arm off that Dreadnaught!" That sorta thing.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grot Snipers need to happen already.
It makes sense for grots to have sniper rifles anyway, they have better BS and are cowardly gitz.

Yeah. I always felt they underutilized the grot's BS outside of heavy weapons like Mek Gunz. It's not like the concept of midget snipers doesn't already exist, since Ratlings are basically that already for the IG. Having grot snipers as the HWS of a grot squad could give them a purpose beyond grot shields and actually do something in the backfield.

I agree that on a general note that most Orks wouldn't usually be patient enough to snipe in the conventional sense, though as you mentioned Orks are a competitive lot, so having a specialist that goes off "trophy-huntin" to show off his kills and loot from killing the flashiest and deadliest enemies in an opposing army sounds like something an Ork would do. I'm sort of imagining a Boba Fett style freeboota with a rokkit pack and dual KMS as our Ork headhunter.

On the idea of Grot snipers. Do you think it would be a Kustom job, like allowing a unit of Mekgunz to target charcters under certain restrictions (much like the opportunist trait) which I reckon would be incredibly powerful. Possibly OP. Even a marine captain would drop to the combined fire of a unit of Smashas. Or would it be a new unit? Somewhere between a unit of grotz and the weapons team style of Mek Gunz, Skaven Jezzail's pop to mind and would fit the bill rather nicely.

Doubt that.

Allowing 6 smasha guns to snipe would be bonkers op, even if it doubled their price. Smashas tend to delete things w/o a high invul or T8.
Literally any character that isnt already targetable anyway (other than girlyman or ghaz) would instantly die, and girlyman would be hurting. If in sight of course.

Yeah, Mek Gunz (barring the suboptimal ones like traktor kannons and bubblechukkas) already perform really well without kustom jobs, so I can't imagine them giving them anything extra on top.

i mean if kustom jobs go the points route i could see them getting some, right now its basically a strat thats permanent while usually those effects are one-offs.

Like a kustom job to allow a reroll of the Smasha wounding dice, +10pts per model in the unit.
But sniping? No. Hard no.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i mean if kustom jobs go the points route i could see them getting some, right now its basically a strat thats permanent while usually those effects are one-offs.

Like a kustom job to allow a reroll of the Smasha wounding dice, +10pts per model in the unit.
But sniping? No. Hard no.

True, if anything Kustom Jobs could make some of the more uncompetitive Mek Gun options more interesting. I could see them allowing you to roll two dice instead of 1 for the stats and you can choose the result between the two for the Bubble Chukka weapon.

We could also have our version of chapter command where a unit upgraded with the kustom job can only be enhanced once per detachment, so you could only take two units of Megatrakk scrapjets with Korkscrew if they were in separate detachments.

Is this list up to date for the current meta? I am specifically interested in HQ options. I see a lot of tournament lists that have the Big Mek in MA, but its tiered so low here.

Also, are forge world units not allowed in tournaments?

zoltan88 wrote:
Is this list up to date for the current meta? I am specifically interested in HQ options. I see a lot of tournament lists that have the Big Mek in MA, but its tiered so low here.

Also, are forge world units not allowed in tournaments?

Big mek in mega armor was not listed as bad just middle of the pack. as for how often updated its at the bottom of the page 1 post, " Last update was at 2020/09/18 12:33:12"

as for forgeworld units they often are allowed in tournaments so long as there are current rules for them, but best to ask the tournament organizer or check the tournament packet to see if it states yes or no
.

Forge World units should not be a problem given how they were quite literally just updated with a new book. But who knows, maybe some tournement organizers hate Forge World for no reason. I cant tell.

A guy gave me the advice that a group of Nobz (if you have to use Nobz that is) with powerklaws and a slugga (or maybe a choppa) is a pretty decent loadout for Nobz. But heres where im thinking that doesnt sit well with me, is, that why use a Powerklaw and not just a single Killsaw?

Am i missing something here, or is the killsaw not superior to the Powerklaw? for the same price of 10 points, both have strength X2 (so 10), saw has -4AP klaw has -3AP, Saw is flat 2 damage, klaw is D3.
So you can more reliably deal damage with the saw with the -4AP, and it always deal 2 damage which seem great to me, over the powerklaw that less reliably deal damage that can be saved by having -3AP, and its damage, while being able to do 3 damage, can also swing and deal 2 or even only 1 damage.

Unless you get a a D3 roll of 5 or 6, its not really worth 10 points, as if it deal 2 damage, it would be 2 damage and 3-AP, making it just a less powerful killsaw, and a damage roll of 1-2 would just make it terrible. So unless you actually deal 3 damage, the powerklaw wouldnt be worth 10 points, i think. at least thats the logic my brain uses atm.


So the powerklaw will go through less saves (meaning less enemies you can reliably engage, and meaning less attacks going through over all) and have more swingy damage, where as the Killsaw just seem... reliable? reliable damage due to needing almost an invul save, and 2 flat always isnt bad at all.

What do you guys think? Because I was thinking of trying some Nobz with a killsaw and a choppa or slugga.