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Unless they pull the switch-a-roo like they did with marines powerfist/chainfist, theres no reason to use klaws over saws.
On average it causes the same damage but has 1 less AP and random damage means realistically its causing less damage, for the same price.

D3 damage is bad. Quite literally everything that has it that isnt basically feeling like a free bonus feels overpriced.

Klaw is better only for the purpose of the relic claw, or I guess with deathskulls allowing a reroll of the d3 damage, but even then...

I would magnetize though, they WILL pull the switch-a-roo for our next codex if they feel like it, and make klaws flat 3 damage just to laugh at all the players who went through the trouble of converting stuff with buzz saws. They are EVIL

 addnid wrote:
Klaw is better only for the purpose of the relic claw, or I guess with deathskulls allowing a reroll of the d3 damage, but even then...

I would magnetize though, they WILL pull the switch-a-roo for our next codex if they feel like it, and make klaws flat 3 damage just to laugh at all the players who went through the trouble of converting stuff with buzz saws. They are EVIL

eh, i feel like ork claw vs killsaw most players will not care which you say it is. kind of like eldar weapons on vehicles. people don't know them so just accept them as anything.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 addnid wrote:
Klaw is better only for the purpose of the relic claw, or I guess with deathskulls allowing a reroll of the d3 damage, but even then...

I would magnetize though, they WILL pull the switch-a-roo for our next codex if they feel like it, and make klaws flat 3 damage just to laugh at all the players who went through the trouble of converting stuff with buzz saws. They are EVIL

eh, i feel like ork claw vs killsaw most players will not care which you say it is. kind of like eldar weapons on vehicles. people don't know them so just accept them as anything.

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. I've never run into someone who wouldn't let me count klaws as saws and vice-versa. Anyway ork weapons work because they believe they do.

I have to vote for Big Mek in MA! If you improve him via Da Kleverest Boss and give him relict Klaw and Warlord trait, he becames great 2-in-1 package - strong as a Warboss and giving KFF 9” aura in the same time.

Spare points, spare HQ slots and if you have 7p more, you can have one KMB with deathskulls reroll for fun!

I use him last aprox. 5 months. Now he rides a Big Trakk with 10 boyz and contesting objectives very decent way.

zoltan88 wrote:
Is this list up to date for the current meta? I am specifically interested in HQ options. I see a lot of tournament lists that have the Big Mek in MA, but its tiered so low here.

Also, are forge world units not allowed in tournaments?

First post tier list hasn't been updated, since I expected six additional codices to be released until March, and orks likely to be one of them due to the model preview. Since that has changed, it might actually be worth putting some effort into it.


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 Tomsug wrote:
I have to vote for Big Mek in MA! If you improve him via Da Kleverest Boss and give him relict Klaw and Warlord trait, he becames great 2-in-1 package - strong as a Warboss and giving KFF 9” aura in the same time.

Spare points, spare HQ slots and if you have 7p more, you can have one KMB with deathskulls reroll for fun!

I use him last aprox. 5 months. Now he rides a Big Trakk with 10 boyz and contesting objectives very decent way.

Same here. Started using him as mini-warboss and he works great. He can even hold objectives by himself, as 2+/5++ makes him surprisingly durable, and he can wipe many units off objectives by himself.

Yeah ive been using the magamek a lot lately.
Both because of the KFF and also because snipers are a problem in my area for some weird reason, and half our HQs are tissuepaper for some dumb reason.

Yeah, his 2+ save makes it so you don't always have to bank on using a 4+ invuln. save that can be very hit or miss depending on how the dice gods feel like. Especially if he's in cover, he can tank any wayward bolters a lot more effectively or units that rely on massed attacks. Throw in on top the extra utility that everyone else has mentioned and he's a real toolkit of an HQ choice.

I'd like some advice for playing on terrain dense tables, loaded with obscuring and LoS blocking terrain and tight enough to make good shots at 18 to 24 inches rare. The couple games I've played on it, large footprint squads felt at a disadvantage and I just kinda removed models in an environment where my Space Marine enemy came prepared for an assault oriented space. The unit that is eating me alive is a dead killy termie squad that strikes first in CC, prompting me to shoot it.

How does an ork list build to compete with this? It chews through bodies a touch too fast for me to tarpit it.

 Rismonite wrote:
I'd like some advice for playing on terrain dense tables, loaded with obscuring and LoS blocking terrain and tight enough to make good shots at 18 to 24 inches rare. The couple games I've played on it, large footprint squads felt at a disadvantage and I just kinda removed models in an environment where my Space Marine enemy came prepared for an assault oriented space. The unit that is eating me alive is a dead killy termie squad that strikes first in CC, prompting me to shoot it.

How does an ork list build to compete with this? It chews through bodies a touch too fast for me to tarpit it.

I suggest watching the TTS video on how to properly set up 9th edition tables. In my group we essentially had the same situation and armies with powerful melee like harlequins, marines or slanesh daemons just auto-won most of their games.

Essentially, if you mix obscuring, dense, barricades and pure LoS blockers (containers/rocks) about equally, the game plays much better.

 Rismonite wrote:
I'd like some advice for playing on terrain dense tables, loaded with obscuring and LoS blocking terrain and tight enough to make good shots at 18 to 24 inches rare. The couple games I've played on it, large footprint squads felt at a disadvantage and I just kinda removed models in an environment where my Space Marine enemy came prepared for an assault oriented space. The unit that is eating me alive is a dead killy termie squad that strikes first in CC, prompting me to shoot it.

How does an ork list build to compete with this? It chews through bodies a touch too fast for me to tarpit it.

As Jidmah said, terrain is important in both how it blocks line of sight and also movement restrictions. The terrain type that takes 2" of movement and charge to get past would be great for you to hide key units behind.

Also, small units of Kommandoz are a pretty common and useful unit to have around. Placing them out of line of sight just in front of other important units can help keep the termies out of combat with anything worth while. Letting you counter charge with something that will do damage to the marines and rob them of the first swing. If it's difficult for a unit to draw LOS from one side of the board to another then cheap units like grots may have a longer lifespan meaning you can use them to draw units into the open or just stop the enemy from moving where they want.

The only thing I wonder about with the megamek is base 4 movement speed. You're putting him in a big really? Seems like not as much use out of the KFF as you would get from a horde and a slogging mek.

On paper, he's definitely nice. I just don't know what do to with the guy, per se. He seems to want to be with meganobz in a transport, but what then is the advantage of the KFF? Just to buff the transport with a 5++? Also, MANz have a 2+ and don't seem to appreciate a KFF as much as boyz.

What do you run inside the big trakk and how do you use it? I'm curious because, on paper, yes he is appealing.

its only 1" difference from the regular mek, it honestly does not make much of a difference. Either you arent moving that quick in the first place because KFF range is way shorter than the vehicle move speed, or its boosting away to charge.
Even a footmek with KFF, unless it embarks, is left in the dust.

 TedNugent wrote:
The only thing I wonder about with the megamek is base 4 movement speed. You're putting him in a big really? Seems like not as much use out of the KFF as you would get from a horde and a slogging mek.

On paper, he's definitely nice. I just don't know what do to with the guy, per se. He seems to want to be with meganobz in a transport, but what then is the advantage of the KFF? Just to buff the transport with a 5++? Also, MANz have a 2+ and don't seem to appreciate a KFF as much as boyz.

What do you run inside the big trakk and how do you use it? I'm curious because, on paper, yes he is appealing.

The KFF really only protects stuff from alpha-strikes during the first two turns. Afterwards the army has driven off or spread out and you are are left with a fairly useless character. On the other hand a foot warboss is fairly useless for the first two turns and starts kicking around stuff once he reaches combat in turn 2 or 3. Having both rolled into one just feels right as you aren't pulling around dead weight, no matter what phase of the game you are in.

The 4" really doesn't that much in 9th since enemies are going to be coming your way.

talking non competitively speaking, is Tin'eads subculture worth it? I mean +1 to hit in close combat, but you could just add a waaagh banner for the same effect (thus freeing you to take another culture) and i dont assume the two things stack together.

As others said there isn't a significant difference between 4'' and 5'', especially if you run blob of boyz and a Weirdboy with Da Jump.

Big Mek in Megarmor is definitely solid, however he's not a Warboss. The Big Mek is mostly there for a defensive role, while the Warboss is a better option if you want a melee specialist. He's flat out more killy in combat and he actually has an invuln that works in melee. Against units that are able to deal serious damage in combat Big Mek's 2+ save is significantly worse than a 4++, not to mention that the Warboss also has +1T and +1W other than +1S and +1A.

So it's really down to what the ork player needs, both options are solid.

In regular games with 2+ HQs I prefer the Warboss + Big Mek with KFF combination as it's cheap and effective and I like to run them together. However if I wanted to field blobs of boyz and a Weirdboy I'd definitely trade both the Warboss and the standard Big Mek with a Big Mek in Megarmor. Warboss + Megamored Big Mek is also a solid combination for those who want both an offensive fighter to rush towards the enemy and a capable defensive character to babysit home objectives.

For armies that work with a single HQ, like patrols in smaller games, the Big Mek in Megarmor is an excellent candidate for the Warlord role.


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Beardedragon wrote:
talking non competitively speaking, is Tin'eads subculture worth it? I mean +1 to hit in close combat, but you could just add a waaagh banner for the same effect and i dont assume the two things stack together.

I've run them multiple times in casual to semi-competitive games and they're definitely fun, if you like walkers and megarmours. The banner only works for those units which also have a -1 to hit, like Meganobz, as you can't have +2 to hit total. No Killa Kanz hitting on 3s sadly. IMHO the banner is not worth with Tin 'Eadz (or any other klan actually) as you can have lots of melee specialists that hit on 2s anyway such as BW/Bonebreakas, Nauts, Dreads, Warboss, Big Mek in Megamor and the Meganobz hitting on 3s are already scary.

But the same units could hit on 2s (minus mega nobz) if you just brought a banner for what, 85 points? This will be made redundant i guess after turn 3 where units start splitting though.


Thats why i was wondering if the culture was good when the banner could give the exact same effect.

But i guess having that +1 to hit for many units even without the need for a banner nearby is pretty decent too

Beardedragon wrote:
But the same units could hit on 2s (minus mega nobz) if you just brought a banner for what, 85 points? This will be made redundant i guess after turn 3 where units start splitting though.


Thats why i was wondering if the culture was good when the banner could give the exact same effect.

But i guess having that +1 to hit for many units even without the need for a banner nearby is pretty decent too

Yeah, there's the tax cost of the banner and you can't spread out the units to get the benefit. Dreads in particular love to split up after deployment and a kustom job that makes them faster, the Gorkanaut typically deep strikes etc... With Tin eadz you get the bonus without the limitations that a 6'' aura ability provides. The cost is the loss of more effective kultur bonuses for shooty units, which puts them a step behind the top 3 klans. However if you want a list that is heavily focussed on assault oriented walkers and meganobz Tin 'Eadz is actually a legit option to consider.

walkers and meganobz being better with the deathskulls trait (vor different reasons) doesn't push players to choose tin heads though.

Perhaps if the Deathskulls trait gets nerfed a bit.

I love the idea behind tin heads, if it was "all ork vehicules + meganobz" I would most def be using it. Kill tanks hitting on 3s in melee for the win !!!

I run a buggy list with 2 transports. Each of them has 5++ to be able to spread during deploy and last long, each of them has 10 boyz to bully weak units, do obsec and die during explosion of the transport and one character to bully the strong ones.

Now I use Battlewagon Forktress with Kaptin Baldruk + 10 boyz and Big Trakk with MA Mek + 10 boyz and it works great.

1” of movement less is definitely not an issue. He drives to objective and enemies comes to him...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackie - have you seen Karate Kid? The best defence is more offense! My MA Big Mek is definitely not a defensive unit. It' s a pure offensive unit. The type of offensive unit that prefers not to die before get to CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Played another game tonight, IG again... I' ve wipe him out T3 for various reasons, so the game was not so interesting. Except following notes:

1. It' s fine to play any game now...
2. Big Trakk has a really low profile. It' s a serious competitive adventage! It can hide behind the container!
3. First game with my almost finished KBBs. And you were right - it' s very fine unit. I 've switched 5 SMGs for 2 KBB pimped up by Squig Tyres and aaaargh! Such a pleasure to have multipourpose M14” unit instead those sitting ducks!
4. SJD should work in pairs. One of them mostly seriously damage something, but you need to kill it. 2 SJD are the right number for Leman Russes and most of other similar stuff.
5. 5 kommandos without Nob are absolutely fine and strong unit to bully all kinds of scions, guardsmans or conscripts. I use 3 kommandos, just one of them has a Nob

What do you make out of the points for nob bikers?

The entry seems to be doubled. One for the codex and one for FW. Both depicting the same unit with different rules and different cost.

 Tomsug wrote:

Blackie - have you seen Karate Kid? The best defence is more offense! My MA Big Mek is definitely not a defensive unit. It' s a pure offensive unit. The type of offensive unit that prefers not to die before get to CC.

He's hands down worse than a warboss though, and its main ability is definitely a defensive buff. He's great to defend objectives that have already been conquered by someone else. Of course if there isn't a warboss in the list he can play an offensive role, but he can't really compete against melee specialists (SM are easily AP-4 in combat on turn3), even average ones, as he's only got his T4 and no invuln.

Agree on KBBs (amazing!!) and min cheapest squads of kommandos. I haven't tried the big trakk yet, but it sounds fun.

 Blackie wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

Blackie - have you seen Karate Kid? The best defence is more offense! My MA Big Mek is definitely not a defensive unit. It' s a pure offensive unit. The type of offensive unit that prefers not to die before get to CC.

He's hands down worse than a warboss though, and its main ability is definitely a defensive buff. He's great to defend objectives that have already been conquered by someone else. Of course if there isn't a warboss in the list he can play an offensive role, but he can't really compete against melee specialists (SM are easily AP-4 in combat on turn3), even average ones, as he's only got his T4 and no invuln.

Agree on KBBs (amazing!!) and min cheapest squads of kommandos. I haven't tried the big trakk yet, but it sounds fun.

That is right, MA BM is definitely weaker than warboss. But be fair. Pimped up Warboss can slay the knight in one turn. No problem. It' s far beyond “melee specialist”. Warboss is a melee superhero. MA BA can slay the Leman Russ in one charge. That is enought to call him attack unit. His best cover is to be in melee.

Defending character is Kaptin Baldruk, sitting behind and firing plasma out.

Big Trakk - well... this is it... compare the sizes of Big Trakk, Battlewagon and containers... Big Trakk is really sneaking...

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
What do you make out of the points for nob bikers?

The entry seems to be doubled. One for the codex and one for FW. Both depicting the same unit with different rules and different cost.

It's fairly safe to assume that the datasheet in the codex has been superseded by the one in the FW book.

KBB's are awesome. I just wish that their specific Kustom Job was actually worth taking...

 Jidmah wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
What do you make out of the points for nob bikers?

The entry seems to be doubled. One for the codex and one for FW. Both depicting the same unit with different rules and different cost.

It's fairly safe to assume that the datasheet in the codex has been superseded by the one in the FW book.

I would have expected as much, but then comes GW and gives a different point values (and an entry for that matter) for the codex ones. Wtf

Well, I' ve found my Speedfreak buggy list almost finished. Time to start thinking about some new ork army project for the next 1-2 years. But what?

I 'm looking for something interesting from the modeling and painting side of the view but also with potential to be fairly competitive sometime in the future. Aprox 2. Years ago I' ve decided to make buggies and here we go, they works fine now So what next? This time I focus little bit more on fun during play and modeling. I have 2 super competitive lists already and these are too strong in my beerhammer group already....

Basicly, there are following direction I have in mind

1. Ride of Valkiers - Chinork is dead. I know. But I have still about 20 AOBR deffkoptas salvaged from ebay during last few years and 3 jets and I would like to make the fourth one. I don' t have any stormboyz jet, this could be another fragment. The idea behind this is super fast terrain ignoring army. In mission focused 9th ed, this could be effective. Let' s say todays Harlequin equivalent.

2. Blitzbrigade - extend my small collection of BW, Big Trakk and trukks and rise it to aprox 7-9 transports zooming around the table, either shooting tankbustas, or boyz + some characters. Some of the wagonz with cannons of all kind maybe... Few of them is already sitting in my bit box ready to be done.... oldschool classic... but seems to be little bit boring....

3. Small walkers - kans and dreads are useless now, but nice models, great for all kinds of conversions. And there is a new keyword WALKER in the FW rulebook... seems to be promising, that this kind of units are todays zeros, but tomorrows heros. Or not? And one Apocalypse box is under my table untouched...

4. Large walkers - Stompa and 2 Natus with some small kommando / stormboyz support for missions. Pure shooting kustom stompa clear the midfield, one gorkonaut charging furiously forward and second naut either charging also, or shooting with sparkli bitz on the flank. This could be my first low model count ork army and honestly, I like the conversion potential of the Stompa and Nauts. One of them is already halfed converted in my “finish later” shelf...

4. Easy riders - I don' t have almost any bikers yet. And these are also todays zeros, that could be tomorrow heroes. Marines have new bikers. Nob bikers have a rules, but gakky models that could be converted or kitbashed. Large monowheel nob bikers from deffkoptas, starwars-like speeders, or various chopper conversions..... wruuuuum. Could fit to my buggies.

5. 3 garg squigogs made from AT-ATs.... well.... maybe not...

What ' s your bet, what kind of units will rise? What kind of new models could we expecting?Except some useless characters.....

I think we gotta see how Death Guard shakes up the meta. DE too.

Morty looks BONKERS. Ironically, I think Orks can probably handle him okay, but I bet a lot of people are going to be scratching their head trying to deal with him.

DG are pretty much rewritten from the ground up and are looking strong.

Mortarion doesn't have Ghaz rule to limit the amount of damage he can take per phase though, he just reduces it by one like dreads if I'm not wrong, which is big for a 18W character. And meta is already overwhelmed with anti elite/tank weapons spam. It can definitely tank a lot but it's also a 500 points model.

His abilities are nasty though.

honestly Mortarion is insane, but to talk about orcs, the new forgeworld rules for the kannon wagon and the killtanks look promising, any thoughts?