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 Blackie wrote:
Mortarion doesn't have Ghaz rule to limit the amount of damage he can take per phase though, he just reduces it by one like dreads if I'm not wrong, which is big for a 18W character. And meta is already overwhelmed with anti elite/tank weapons spam. It can definitely tank a lot but it's also a 500 points model.

His abilities are nasty though.

18 Eradicators don't kill him in a single turn on average lol. Not once you add in the -1 to hit psychic.

18 Wounds, T8, 3+, 4++, 5+++, -1 damage, potentially -1 to hit.

In addition, he can turn off re-rolls in CC, and turn off aura re-rolls that aren't psychic within a certain radius.

Orks thankfully get around some of this stuff thankfully (Like, Skarboyz don't care about a lot of his new abilities), but no, he's probably the most durable thing in the game per point.

His new psychic powers are also really, really good.

IMHO the concept of one-shotting a model like that is insane.

If he can actually go down in 2-3 turns he should be ok. For the faction's superhero that costs 500 points we shouldn't expect otherwise.

We, orks, also don't care about aura re-rolls .

 Blackie wrote:
IMHO the concept of one-shotting a model like that is insane.

If he can actually go down in 2-3 turns he should be ok. For the faction's superhero that costs 500 points we shouldn't expect otherwise.

We, orks, also don't care about aura re-rolls .

someone did the math hammer on mortarion and it was insane, it would take like some 48 shots I believe from 3+ BS to down him on average, and thats not considering he is likely to be -1 to hit from his psychic powers

I think basically the only things that can kind of stop him are marines with stormshields and good melee weapons, IE bladeguard veterans

 Blackie wrote:
IMHO the concept of one-shotting a model like that is insane.

If he can actually go down in 2-3 turns he should be ok. For the faction's superhero that costs 500 points we shouldn't expect otherwise.

We, orks, also don't care about aura re-rolls .

At 500 points, he's probably S+ tier.

The main issue is how efficient eradicators are compared to many other army's options. He's durable enough to shrug off the best anti tank in the game, and they are the best by a wide margin.

I reckon he won't stay 490 points after the next update.

Rather hilariously, though, Orks probably laugh him off because of stuff like Dragsters and deathskull damage re-rolls, and stuff like Boys just not caring about his new durability bonuses.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

Blackie - have you seen Karate Kid? The best defence is more offense! My MA Big Mek is definitely not a defensive unit. It' s a pure offensive unit. The type of offensive unit that prefers not to die before get to CC.

He's hands down worse than a warboss though, and its main ability is definitely a defensive buff. He's great to defend objectives that have already been conquered by someone else. Of course if there isn't a warboss in the list he can play an offensive role, but he can't really compete against melee specialists (SM are easily AP-4 in combat on turn3), even average ones, as he's only got his T4 and no invuln.

Agree on KBBs (amazing!!) and min cheapest squads of kommandos. I haven't tried the big trakk yet, but it sounds fun.

That is right, MA BM is definitely weaker than warboss. But be fair. Pimped up Warboss can slay the knight in one turn. No problem. It' s far beyond “melee specialist”. Warboss is a melee superhero. MA BA can slay the Leman Russ in one charge. That is enought to call him attack unit. His best cover is to be in melee.

Defending character is Kaptin Baldruk, sitting behind and firing plasma out.

Big Trakk - well... this is it... compare the sizes of Big Trakk, Battlewagon and containers... Big Trakk is really sneaking...

Really like the paint job on the vehicles

*Looks at the amount of stuff you get for 500 points as death guard with morty*

*Looks at what the Gargantuan Squiggoth does at roughly the same amount of points*

*feels sad*

I usually play Goff when i face Death Guard against my friend (knowing he has morty) because i use Ghaz to man-handle him. Both often ends up dying

Beardedragon wrote:
*Looks at the amount of stuff you get for 500 points as death guard with morty*

*Looks at what the Gargantuan Squiggoth does at roughly the same amount of points*

*feels sad*

I usually play Goff when i face Death Guard against my friend (knowing he has morty) because i use Ghaz to man-handle him. Both often ends up dying

To be fair, most super heavy options look bad compared to most Primarchs, there's a reason why they aren't seen much on the table barring a few outliers and imperial knights as a faction are currently gutted with how objectives and games go against them currently.

Also, I'd say we're one of the few factions that aren't as bothered by his defensive capabilities given we dont rely on aura rerolls or D2 weapons like some armies do.

Mortarion was pretty bad before though, and the one good(bad?) thing about him is that he has next to zero range capability. If you tarpit him with Thrakka for a turn or two, this will cause massive problems for the DG player. Also note that he lost his MW pulses, so charging him with multiple units is viable now.

Last, but not least, MANz with hit 'em harder can still take a huge chunk out of him, and scarboyz aren't too bad for hitting him either. Just make sure you dog-pile everything on him at once, failing to kill him puts you on the wrong side of his reaping scythe.

Defensewise he gained T8 instead of T7 and the ability to reduce damage by 1. Sure he's definitely tougher now, but he already had 18W, 4++ and 5+++, and no one considered him too hard to kill for the amount of points it costs.

Even our Ghaz shouldn't go down before turn 3, although he won't soak as much firepower as Mort, which now draws all the attention.

Could a viable tactics be ignoring him and focussing to the rest of the army instead? 30 boyz could tarpit him for two turns. A not so wounded Ghaz can tarpit him for 2-3 turns as well.

I have to play against him before judging. He might be OP, but to be honest at the moment I'm more scared about too cheap gravis dudes that can be spammed.

Most of the DG players are now considering dipping heavily into deathshrouds - those are a lot harder to kill for orks than Mortarion. Honestly I'm not sure what to do about them, as I'm already struggling with deathwing terminators.

For reference, death shrouds now are 3W T5 2+/4++, -1 damage, have a S3 pistol flamer and have 8 S5 AP-1 attacks each.

They sound like a perfect target for our Smasha Gunz. A battery of 6 is 240 points, and should reliably delete a significant number of them. Those nurgle gravis equivalents aren't cheap, and being anti horde oriented means that they won't be spammed. Meta is still about tailoring SM.

But they can definitely be nasty against orks. I too had hard times so far against those kind of targets, although due to covid I couldn't play since before Christmas and I won't be able to play for at least another month or two.

Smashas, huh?

Let's math that:
6 shoot 12 shots on average, hit 6 plus .6666 from dakka³.
Chance to wound T5 is 83.33%, so 6.6666x.8333 = 5.5555 wounds
After 4++, 2.7777 unsaved wounds remain
They are dealing d6-1 damage, which averages to (1+1+2+3+4+5)/6 = 2.6666 damage
2.7777 unsaved wounds x 2.6666 damage = 7.407 wounds

Or, in less mathy terms, three unsaved wounds with a 12.5% chance to kill 3.

I guess that's ok.

Edit: Math wrong, recalculating...

Edit2: fixed math

bat702 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
IMHO the concept of one-shotting a model like that is insane.

If he can actually go down in 2-3 turns he should be ok. For the faction's superhero that costs 500 points we shouldn't expect otherwise.

We, orks, also don't care about aura re-rolls .

someone did the math hammer on mortarion and it was insane, it would take like some 48 shots I believe from 3+ BS to down him on average, and thats not considering he is likely to be -1 to hit from his psychic powers

I think basically the only things that can kind of stop him are marines with stormshields and good melee weapons, IE bladeguard veterans

I dont think Blade Guard will be that good against him, they are only str5 and their damage 2 becomes damage 1. He will often be -1 to hit and then he has a 4++ 5+++ and those Marines wont be getting rerolls against him. The best thing in the game to take him down are probably Kastelans with triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters. Admech have multiple ways of getting +1 to hit to offset the -1 and probably still be +1 against him, pair it with Wrath of Mars and Morty will either be maimed or killed out right. Other armies I think will struggle to take him down, especially like Guard, Tyranids and Eldar.

The Nightbringer is another good threat to Morty and just Warriors in general, but I dont think The NB can solo Morty at all. As Orks I guess its Skarboyz, they have the str and volume of attacks just no AP whats so ever, but then Morty will obliterate blocks of Boyz each combat phase. Ghaz would put up a good fight but again I dont think he would last a couple turns of Smites, Command Phase Mortals and Combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Most of the DG players are now considering dipping heavily into deathshrouds - those are a lot harder to kill for orks than Mortarion. Honestly I'm not sure what to do about them, as I'm already struggling with deathwing terminators.

For reference, death shrouds now are 3W T5 2+/4++, -1 damage, have a S3 pistol flamer and have 8 S5 AP-1 attacks each.

I think Ghaz or Meganobz are the best vs Deathshroud personally. Ghaz will outright kill a Deathshroud with each unsaved Invun unless they get lucky with the Plague Surgeons 6+++ whilst being relatively safe in return, the -1 toughness doesnt really effect him against the scythes. Meganobz withe the usual Dual Killsaws and Hit 'em Harder should have the volume of attacks to cut through them, and with them being str 10 they dont care about toughness 5. Every 2 unsaved wounds is a dead Deathshroud, you just have to ensure you hit first which can be tricky with the Foul Blightspawn with the relic stank vats.

 Jidmah wrote:
Smashas, huh?

Let's math that:
6 shoot 12 shots on average, hit 6 plus .6666 from dakka³.
Chance to wound T5 is 83.33%, so 6.6666x.8333 = 5.5555 wounds
After 4++, 2.7777 unsaved wounds remain
They are dealing d6-1 damage, which averages to (1+1+2+3+4+5)/6 = 2.6666 damage
2.7777 unsaved wounds x 2.6666 damage = 7.407 wounds

Or, in less mathy terms, three unsaved wounds with a 12.5% chance to kill 3.

I guess that's ok.

Edit: Math wrong, recalculating...

Edit2: fixed math

It doesn't sound that bad, it's 2-3 dead models that only have 5'' M, won't likely be more than 6 in the list and can just assault one single mek gun due to the huge footprint that artillery has. Smasha gun is also an extremely cheap weapon you should want regardless of the opponent as it'd get appropriate targets against anyone, litterally. Those termies have 4++ and 5+++ but gravis dudes don't, just the 4++ at most. If they don't have the invuln it's 5-6 dead gravis models, which is nice.

Why only 0.6666 from dakkadakkadakka? Shouldn't it be a full extra hit? 12 shots, two additional wounds and one hit with BS4+.

 deffrekka wrote:
I think Ghaz or Meganobz are the best vs Deathshroud personally. Ghaz will outright kill a Deathshroud with each unsaved Invun unless they get lucky with the Plague Surgeons 6+++ whilst being relatively safe in return, the -1 toughness doesnt really effect him against the scythes. Meganobz withe the usual Dual Killsaws and Hit 'em Harder should have the volume of attacks to cut through them, and with them being str 10 they dont care about toughness 5. Every 2 unsaved wounds is a dead Deathshroud, you just have to ensure you hit first which can be tricky with the Foul Blightspawn with the relic stank vats.

I doubt that deathshrouds will see a lot of character support as the unit is 250 already, so neither surgeons nor blightspawns should be an issue. But many got points on the ork tactics, MANz and Thrakka are decent answers.

 Jidmah wrote:
Mortarion was pretty bad before though, and the one good(bad?) thing about him is that he has next to zero range capability. If you tarpit him with Thrakka for a turn or two, this will cause massive problems for the DG player. Also note that he lost his MW pulses, so charging him with multiple units is viable now.

Last, but not least, MANz with hit 'em harder can still take a huge chunk out of him, and scarboyz aren't too bad for hitting him either. Just make sure you dog-pile everything on him at once, failing to kill him puts you on the wrong side of his reaping scythe.

I think he's a legit boogeyman, but Orks probably don't struggle too hard with him.

Goff Tide probably has the tools with massed STR 5 attacks.

Deathskull style lists with re-roll damage can probably bust through his damage reduction nonsense.

The numbers, though, are abysmal.

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-killing-mortarion/

I honesty think he'll get a points hike. The thing is Morty should never, ever be tarpitted unless the DG players wants him to. You have ways of making enemies fight last, he actually shreds most things that touch him in CC, and he also flies. You can get him into position if you want to.

That new psychic power is horribly mean, too. Lower their Toughness, than pitch upwards of 7 mortal wounds in their face.

 Blackie wrote:
It doesn't sound that bad, it's 2-3 dead models that only have 5'' M, won't likely be more than 6 in the list and can just assault one single mek gun due to the huge footprint that artillery has. Smasha gun is also an extremely cheap weapon you should want regardless of the opponent as it'd get appropriate targets against anyone, litterally. Those termies have 4++ and 5+++ but gravis dudes don't, just the 4++ at most. If they don't have the invuln it's 5-6 dead gravis models, which is nice.

People are already drafting up lists with 3x5 in them. They also lost the 5+++ but are -1 to damage now.
The main danger from them is that they just charge three different objectives and murder anything trying to contest it. Meanwhile Mortarion is trying to take a swing at the best defended objective. When DG run away with primary points, there is little orks can do to catch up.

Why only 0.6666 from dakkadakkadakka? Shouldn't it be a full extra hit? 12 shots, two additional wounds and one hit with BS4+.

You are right, of course. It shouldn't make much of a difference in the end though, the essence is that you will most likely kill 2 deathshrouds with a small chance to kill 3 and an even smaller chance to kill just one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
That new psychic power is horribly mean, too. Lower their Toughness, than pitch upwards of 7 mortal wounds in their face.

Curse of the Leper has been around since the index. The only new one is the +6" contagion one, the random debuff thing got changed to -1S with a possible -1A as well, and Plague Wind can now be super-charged. In exchange Putrifying Blades, the best power from the old codex, got axed.

 Jidmah wrote:

Curse of the Leper has been around since the index. The only new one is the +6" contagion one, the random debuff thing got changed to -1S with a possible -1A as well, and Plague Wind can now be super-charged. In exchange Putrifying Blades, the best power from the old codex, got axed.

Fair enough. -1 Toughess Contagion is new, though, which makes it distinctly better.

Eh, it still sucks because of WC7. I usually only took it as a joke, plague wind is much better.

I've noticed people are mentioning a 5+ FNP for Morty, is he not losing that in exchange for the -1 DMG Disgustingly Resinglant gives now? Or does he get both because he's a Primarch and he don't care.

cody.d. wrote:
I've noticed people are mentioning a 5+ FNP for Morty, is he not losing that in exchange for the -1 DMG Disgustingly Resinglant gives now? Or does he get both because he's a Primarch and he don't care.

It's a Warlord Trait he has.

 JNAProductions wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I've noticed people are mentioning a 5+ FNP for Morty, is he not losing that in exchange for the -1 DMG Disgustingly Resinglant gives now? Or does he get both because he's a Primarch and he don't care.

It's a Warlord Trait he has.

And probably the reason he will get a point increase, if he gets one, for instance if he shows up in too many winning lists (DG has possibly better or just as good builds without Morty though) in... Australia ? Where do tournaments even take place these days ? TTS ? The few that do occur I mean

 JNAProductions wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I've noticed people are mentioning a 5+ FNP for Morty, is he not losing that in exchange for the -1 DMG Disgustingly Resinglant gives now? Or does he get both because he's a Primarch and he don't care.

It's a Warlord Trait he has.

Ah fair enough. If you're going to have a 500pt centerpiece may as well buff him to the warp and back.

So what are the units people feel like they're struggling against at the moment? Have you faced off against many marines and harlies? Do you think the new DG codex is going to be a pain or just Morty looming in the horizon.

cody.d. wrote:
So what are the units people feel like they're struggling against at the moment? Have you faced off against many marines and harlies? Do you think the new DG codex is going to be a pain or just Morty looming in the horizon.

Dark Angels are a pita for orks, as they spam a lot of super-durable 3W models. I've played quite a few games against harlequins now, and I find them rather easy to defeat. Their strengths seem useless against most ork builds.

Hello my fellow Greenskins.

Im pretty new to the hobby and mostly bought my models for the fluff.

Now several friend convinced me to go for a 2k points army. so i took everything i already have and build an army. I roughly hit 1200 points and try to think what to buy next to show them some green pain. Hope you could help here.

What i got so far

Ghazghkull
burna bomber or wazboom blastajet (magnetized right out of hell)
big mek with shokk attack gun
2x smasha gun
deff dread (arms not glued yet. my idea was triple klaw+skorcha)
old model pikkup trukk
10 nobz (big choppas, skorcha, rokkits, choppa+slugga remix)
lotta boyz 40 or so
13 gretchin

So i thought about getting a weirdboy also the model is quite boring but just to jump da **** up.
And i'd like to get another ride like scrapjet or something that looks good.

Could you help to close the gaps inside my mind what to buy. Thanks up front.

You already have a great collection of things, but you are lacking an proper army core.

The easiest to build would probably be a goff horde lead by Thrakka. This would mean increasing your boyz count to 90 and get two boxes of MANz to get a unit of 5 and a MA big mek.

cody.d. wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I've noticed people are mentioning a 5+ FNP for Morty, is he not losing that in exchange for the -1 DMG Disgustingly Resinglant gives now? Or does he get both because he's a Primarch and he don't care.

It's a Warlord Trait he has.

Ah fair enough. If you're going to have a 500pt centerpiece may as well buff him to the warp and back.

So what are the units people feel like they're struggling against at the moment? Have you faced off against many marines and harlies? Do you think the new DG codex is going to be a pain or just Morty looming in the horizon.

I think Deathguard will defo shake up the meta, im not sure if there will be an influx of DG players that flood the tournament seen though. They are great and durable, messing with the meta's current fixation on damage 2 weapons but they are still quite slow and elite to a degree, they dont also have great shooting and Plaguemarines are great in combat but Blightlords are pretty flat compared to them. Morty will defo dictate how people build lists now but as Orks we arent really that effected by it, what aura's and rerolls do we really have that are to do with damage? Deathskull's with the odd reroll here and there? I think Orks will weather whatever DG can throw at them.

Tough matchups? Blood Angels is my vote.

I don't think it's clear cut that Mortarion will be the way to go. There is a ton of awesome stuff in the codex, and bringing Mortarion means not bringing 490 points of other stuff - that's 3-4 daemon engines which all not only got better BS and WS and better weapons, but also a powerful stratagem for each of them.

Even in 9th multiple shooting units will be better than a single melee unit - us orks should know that best.

 Jidmah wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
So what are the units people feel like they're struggling against at the moment? Have you faced off against many marines and harlies? Do you think the new DG codex is going to be a pain or just Morty looming in the horizon.

Dark Angels are a pita for orks, as they spam a lot of super-durable 3W models. I've played quite a few games against harlequins now, and I find them rather easy to defeat. Their strengths seem useless against most ork builds.

Though do you find that a handful of smashagunz are a good tool to have against DA and the free Transhuman they have on a few units? But yeah I figured Harlies wouldn't be a tough matchup for orks. Put a valuable unit up front as bait then counter charge with some ork boyz to drown them in dice huh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deffrekka wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
.

I think Deathguard will defo shake up the meta, im not sure if there will be an influx of DG players that flood the tournament seen though. They are great and durable, messing with the meta's current fixation on damage 2 weapons but they are still quite slow and elite to a degree, they dont also have great shooting and Plaguemarines are great in combat but Blightlords are pretty flat compared to them. Morty will defo dictate how people build lists now but as Orks we arent really that effected by it, what aura's and rerolls do we really have that are to do with damage? Deathskull's with the odd reroll here and there? I think Orks will weather whatever DG can throw at them.

Tough matchups? Blood Angels is my vote.

DG is a surprise. Yeah morty can be scarey but generally speaking most of their units are just tougher, much more expensive versions of regular marines. Meaning you have less boltguns and chainswords aimed at you.

Vineheart01 wrote:Grot Snipers need to happen already.
It makes sense for grots to have sniper rifles anyway, they have better BS and are cowardly gitz.

There was a conversion of the Kommando Nob with a Grot popping out of his backpack with a sniper rifle that won (some level) at a golden daemon years ago. I think the Grot had a beret on as well?

Kommandos are still finecast and I expect plastic (dual) kits to shift more towards an all plastic range. If GW doesn't do this they've missed a great opportunity.