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You can’t make gitz fire 36 if they are inside, so it really is just lootas. And as you said the thing will probably need to move so lootas ain’t great either.
If you go evil sunz these things are good because visions as it was said. Otherwise I think they are both meh units, but that is just me.

 Jidmah wrote:
That seems unlikely - care to show your math?

Ref: One shotting Morty

So the combo of shadows in the smoke (reroll all misses) and more Dakka (auto hits on 5s and 6s, explode on 5s and 6s) result in a conversion rate of 86.4% "hits" for every shot taken. Also as orks we ignore the fact Morty might have a -1 to hit.

3/9 + (2/3*1/3) = 45/81 of initial shots hitting due to rerolls
(1/3*5/9) + (2/3*5/9*1/3) =25/81 from the explodes together making 70/81 conversion from the initial shots. Thats 86.4%. Bear in mind Bs2+ is only a 83.33% probability.

The kustom lifta averages 8 shots (4d3) results in on average 6.912 hits. If you check up a sample space diagram for 3 d6 thrown concurrently you'll see the lifta will still wound T8 76.39% of the time resulting in 5.28 wounds. Half of which will go through the armour = 2.6 Each wound casuses 3+d3 wounds -1 so approximately 12 wounds, again 33.3% would be saved due to Mortys old FnP so 8 wounds.

The deffkannon will average 10.5 shots (3d6) resulting in 9.072 shots. Wounding Morty on 3s reults in 6 wounds. 3 are saved with Mortys 4++ so 3 wounds at damage d6 -1 which averages 7.5 wounds in total. again morty will save 33% so thats another 5 wounds for morty.

Belly gun will average 9 hits again. Only 4.5 wound, 2.25 go through the invul resulting in a 2.25 wounds again reduced by 33% so thats only another 1.5 wounds for morty.

Supa gatler will again average 9 hits with only 3 wounding, 1.5 piercing the invul reduced by 33% for 1 more wound. If needs be you could fire this a second time (on a 2+) which would be another wound.

3.5 shots on average for the supa rokkits results in 3.024 hits, 1.5 wounds and a 0.75 piercing the invul in turn causing on average 1.875 wounds, which reduced by 33% results in 1.23 more wounds.

9 big shoota attacks result in 7.776 hits, 2.58 wounds, only 0.85 piercing his armour. After FnP again this changes to 0.56.

In total thats on average just over 18 actually successful wounds against Morty at 36" range.

This isn't taking into account the not terrible gaze of mork which while only 3 shots. Averages 2.59 hits,1.7 wounds, 0.855 that get through the invul in turn causing 3.3 extra actual wounds (after -1 D and FnP)

On average we the Orks have the one platform that can one turn (phase) Morty. Personally I'll also be flying my Burna bommer into him T1 too (can someone confirm whether Morty gets FnP to mortals) and I'll line up a suicidal deffkopta for for a mortal wound charge into him with ramming speed so I can "confidently" take him down.

And even after all that it only cost him around the 500 points for mortarion, and you had to do all that, to take him down.

20-30 boyz + a weirdboy to get the power reliably off (perhaps the "bones" relic could help mitigate a bad roll) + 2 CP for dakka dakka + a kustom stompa with bellygun

I don't think adding a 155 point burna bommer and a cp to crash it is a good idea though, at some point enough is enough. The kopta you can always position for a 3d6 charge, and if morty comes out indeed with 1-2 wounds left, then in the assault phase you wack 2 cp and go for the 3d6 charge causing d3 mortal wounds !! Waagh

I would love to try that out but I must say that is a lot of resources, though one shotting the new morty is priceless indeed.

Congrats on the idea and the math behind it !

Cheers dude.

Unfortunately the git bones relic doesn't effect shadows in the smoke so we're stuck with the +3 from 30 Boyz. With a reroll you're looking at the spell going of 92% of the time.

The real question is do you go balls out and take cut off the head for 12vp T1. Force your opponent to put Morty in reserves delaying Morty's effect on the game.

CaptainO wrote:
Cheers dude.

Unfortunately the git bones relic doesn't effect shadows in the smoke so we're stuck with the +3 from 30 Boyz. With a reroll you're looking at the spell going of 92% of the time.

The real question is do you go balls out and take cut off the head for 12vp T1. Force your opponent to put Morty in reserves delaying Morty's effect on the game.

F... yeah you do ! Cut that Mother...er's head ! With a stompa ! I mean, really, that is 40k at its best (this coming from a tourney player hah hah).

Seriously some WTC tables enable morty to hide (a sad thing, but I don't have a choice), you are british I see, do you play WTC or not ? Anyway, a stompa is so big it can probably find an angle to see a bit of morty regardless of WTC terrain

Actually Irish but live in the UK... I need to change that flag

The WTC 9" L shaped terrain is huge. It can even cover the stompa from some shooting.

Getting the stompa into a central position with good fire lanes and eyes on multiple objectives is the name of the game.

I played my brother's custodes over Xmas using the WTC terrain. There is loads of line of sight blocking.

Kustom Stompa just to beat Morty is a very silly strategy.

Of course, it's also incredibly fun, so go for it.

CaptainO wrote:
Cheers dude.

Unfortunately the git bones relic doesn't effect shadows in the smoke so we're stuck with the +3 from 30 Boyz. With a reroll you're looking at the spell going of 92% of the time.

The real question is do you go balls out and take cut off the head for 12vp T1. Force your opponent to put Morty in reserves delaying Morty's effect on the game.

Is that counting the likleyhood of getting the 12+ which is an instant perils and the spell not going off?

Spell still goes goes off on a 12+ but you do perils. Weird boys 4 wounds combo'd with the painboy keeps him alive. I'd often spend the 1cp to heal d3 wounds on him if needs be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Cheers dude.

Unfortunately the git bones relic doesn't effect shadows in the smoke so we're stuck with the +3 from 30 Boyz. With a reroll you're looking at the spell going of 92% of the time.

The real question is do you go balls out and take cut off the head for 12vp T1. Force your opponent to put Morty in reserves delaying Morty's effect on the game.

F... yeah you do ! Cut that Mother...er's head ! With a stompa ! I mean, really, that is 40k at its best (this coming from a tourney player hah hah).

Seriously some WTC tables enable morty to hide (a sad thing, but I don't have a choice), you are british I see, do you play WTC or not ? Anyway, a stompa is so big it can probably find an angle to see a bit of morty regardless of WTC terrain

I'm dying for some tournament play. My current list.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perils on a 12+ only stops the spell if it kills the weird boy which has a 0% chance of happening T1 of its the first spell you pop off.

I'm not certain about that, I don't have the rulebook on me. I thought that was something that changed with the edition, that a perils = the spell stops.

Hey guys.

If i were to make a fun army build, against a custodies player, with a Da boomer, Gorkanaut, Kannonwagon and a Gargantuan Squiggoth with a supa kannon (the squig is in an auxillary), would i benefit the most from Evil Sunz --> visions --> Da boomer --> More dakka, or would i benefit the most from just going Bad Moon for rerolling all 1s in the shooting phase?

Granted visions with Da boomer and more dakka is a damage out of this world, that is the only unit that gets buffed, where as Bad Moon sort of buffs everyone of those vehicles (minus the garg squig since auxiallary) by rerolling ones.

I cant make up my mind about what would make most sense.

cody.d. wrote:
I'm not certain about that, I don't have the rulebook on me. I thought that was something that changed with the edition, that a perils = the spell stops.

Nope looking at the rulebook now and nowhere does it say perils stops a cast. Only that if a psycher dies from perils the spell fails.

Beardedragon wrote:

Evil Sunz --> visions --> Da boomer --> More dakka,

I am using this, or kill tank with supashoota in most of my games. This is an overkill.

Yikes, Deathwing can have objective secured now.
I guess it's time to switch from orks to death guard till we get our codex.

I've had decent results blasting Deathwing apart with Smashas but the fact that Dark Angels got that much cancer in one update is just painful to watch

 Jidmah wrote:
Yikes, Deathwing can have objective secured now.
I guess it's time to switch from orks to death guard till we get our codex.

I think that matchup for Orks is probably a 65-35 range loss for us

It's gonna be rough. They have the exact tools to dismantle hordes, and SM have plenty of options for killing vehicles.

We can get around transhuman with mek guns, but spamming mek guns is not a popular build and may not even be the winning tool for us in this matchup anyway.

GW

Not a bad win rate as things go. I am still curious what's going to happen with the DE codex, show us what GW has planned for a faction that is NOT marine flavour x, y or z. Will the DE have as much flavour as DA seems to be getting this weekend? Will things like Wyches actually feel like gladiatorial fighters or just a watered down Harlies unit?

cody.d. wrote:
Not a bad win rate as things go. I am still curious what's going to happen with the DE codex, show us what GW has planned for a faction that is NOT marine flavour x, y or z. Will the DE have as much flavour as DA seems to be getting this weekend? Will things like Wyches actually feel like gladiatorial fighters or just a watered down Harlies unit?

Yeah, we are fine. But my budy with his Imperial Guard struggles a lot. I let him go first, otherwise it makes no sence..,

 Tomsug wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Not a bad win rate as things go. I am still curious what's going to happen with the DE codex, show us what GW has planned for a faction that is NOT marine flavour x, y or z. Will the DE have as much flavour as DA seems to be getting this weekend? Will things like Wyches actually feel like gladiatorial fighters or just a watered down Harlies unit?

Yeah, we are fine. But my budy with his Imperial Guard struggles a lot. I let him go first, otherwise it makes no sence..,

Imperial guard are fine if you go for the builds that work, what list does he play ? They can win again orks just fine. They are not an easy army to play though, but neither is orks

 addnid wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Not a bad win rate as things go. I am still curious what's going to happen with the DE codex, show us what GW has planned for a faction that is NOT marine flavour x, y or z. Will the DE have as much flavour as DA seems to be getting this weekend? Will things like Wyches actually feel like gladiatorial fighters or just a watered down Harlies unit?

Yeah, we are fine. But my budy with his Imperial Guard struggles a lot. I let him go first, otherwise it makes no sence..,

Imperial guard are fine if you go for the builds that work, what list does he play ? They can win again orks just fine. They are not an easy army to play though, but neither is orks

This is maybe to another thread. But he has quite huge collection, so we tried a lot of different combinations. The only that he lacks are bulgryns and that seems to be problem) But honestly, I “play” Guard via helping him to make it work simultaneusly with orks over a year and orks have much better army now. I can build about 4 different but very much working ork lists now at least. I can choose from a couple of different tactics that works fine. IG grind the ground and eat the mud. Terrible CC perfomance except one unit? No fast units except one?. They can flood the table with guardsman that (in compare to flooding with the boyz) do nothing. Or park the tanks behind and try to shoot you and lost on VP. Or feed the middle with bulgryns in transport, which is equivalent of Meganobz in Trukks. What they need is some kind of deffrola on their tanks.....

4 orks different lists I mean:

1. Ghazz + green tide, mostly goffs with some meganob support usually = tactic is to flood the table
2. Buggy list of deathskulls = tactics is to be kunnin and killing
3. Trukk MANz with some kind of support (buggies, SAGs, etc..) = tactic is based on elit inf on objectives with fire support
4. Nauts and BW variations lists with motowarbos. Part of them parks behind, part of them advance and charge via the warboss = tactics is based on masive shooting and large vehicles charging in the opponents face.

And you can combine them...

Hey all, I assume trukk spam is a dud?

Has anyone tried running massed trukks with nobz, MANz, boys, lootas, flash gitz, etc?

I would assume evil sunz is the mandatory kultur...

I picture nothing but infantry & characters in trukks and nothing else

After enemy shooting whatever trukks you have left can be used as a literal 2-3 foot wall of 5++ cover with some tying up shooty units. Mob up any boyz mobs to full strength, and abuse Loot It! on everyone

Even tellyport a trukk full of MANz if need be and Da Jump any units left stranded in the open if a Weirdboy is nearby I guess

Yeah, Guard are in a pretty bad spot competitively speaking. Even in a semi-competitive environment they don't do so hot with the current rules, they easily give up Bring it Down and Thin Their Ranks pretty consistently even with the new changes. Mix that with a relative inability to contest central objectives and it results in an army that's pretty anemic to scoring. Weirdly enough, spamming DKoK rough riders are one of the few things doing well for them in that regard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Boris420 wrote:
Hey all, I assume trukk spam is a dud?

Has anyone tried running massed trukks with nobz, MANz, boys, lootas, flash gitz, etc?

I would assume evil sunz is the mandatory kultur...

I picture nothing but infantry & characters in trukks and nothing else

After enemy shooting whatever trukks you have left can be used as a literal 2-3 foot wall of 5++ cover with some tying up shooty units. Mob up any boyz mobs to full strength, and abuse Loot It! on everyone

Even tellyport a trukk full of MANz if need be and Da Jump any units left stranded in the open if a Weirdboy is nearby I guess

Trukk spam isn't really viable like you said because you're investing so many points into a transport platform that has no offensive capability. In contrast to battlewagons/bonebreakas, who at least perform their CC role relatively well, trukks don't do much beyond body-blocking and tying up units. While that's not bad and it's good as a core of a few Boyz squads if you need troops, once you go beyond 3 there's diminishing returns on how much they can do and block. Certain armies like harlequins won't give a crap about being tied up and can easily move across and ignore the parking lot you've set up. Others have enough killing power to basically gain the full Bring it Down from just killing them. If I was to spam a transport, it would be the Big Trakk, since you could tie that with Blood Axes and have them fall back and charge again to try and spam MW's, but they're Heavy Support which kinda limits how much you can bring comparatively speaking.

I mean trukks are fine.

Just make sure they are delivering or protecting valuable targets.

10 boys just doesn't do anything. 3 trukks filled with mega nobs? Well, that's a stew going.

 Boris420 wrote:
Hey all, I assume trukk spam is a dud?

Has anyone tried running massed trukks with nobz, MANz, boys, lootas, flash gitz, etc?

I would assume evil sunz is the mandatory kultur...

I picture nothing but infantry & characters in trukks and nothing else

After enemy shooting whatever trukks you have left can be used as a literal 2-3 foot wall of 5++ cover with some tying up shooty units. Mob up any boyz mobs to full strength, and abuse Loot It! on everyone

Even tellyport a trukk full of MANz if need be and Da Jump any units left stranded in the open if a Weirdboy is nearby I guess

“3. trukk MANz spam” = 3x trukk with manz or tankbustas or something...

Welp.

Orks, how in gods name do we fight Dark Angels?

Because after a quick dip of their rules, I am confident in saying they are the best army in the game, as of the current set of books that are out in 9th.

Just finished the game againts Deathguard army full of Termies and Mortarion. Orks won.

Mortarion dies in aprox 1,5 round of shooting. 3dragstas and wazboom with little help of scrapjets and lucky guy Kaptin Baldruk do the job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
Welp.

Orks, how in gods name do we fight Dark Angels?

Because after a quick dip of their rules, I am confident in saying they are the best army in the game, as of the current set of books that are out in 9th.

Kill the Biker character giving the Terminators 5” deepstrike in T1, screen well and let them march.

Tomsug indeed guard can play comp without bullgryns, you need at least 9. They will make a difference though.

Does "Visions in the smoke" work on Deffkoptas? If you had a unit of 5 would all of them benefit or just one?