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 Jidmah wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Looking at the grot mega-tank, it doesnt look so bad 7 big shootas and 1 shoota at 4+ BS plus dakka-dakka, its BS doesnt degrade either, 11 wounds T6 3+ save all for 90 pts and only a fast attack slot

also the regular grot-tank is pretty garbage imo, unless you just want a cheap screening unit in a fast attack slot to fill a brigade or something

Bringing 7 of a bad and inefficient gun doesn't make it great

I sort of like the 2-3x KMB, 4-5x Big Shoota variant.

Makes it 110 or 120 points. Similar to a dragster or mega trakk.

It's probably better than neither, but it's bulkier (11 wound, 3+ save, ramshackle), and I think would actually perform okay if you wanna play with the models.

In reality, just take a dragster or mega trakk, but they aren't too bad.

I've run them a couple of times, even two of them in a game once. They're okayish but anything but the nicest semi-competitive games or below and they'll be a big liability.

Like Tulun stated they're actually somewhat hardy for their points at the cheaper loadouts but unfortunately they're also:
Slow, give up 2 BID points each, have no CC ability, degrade & don't get kulturs.

I still don't get the points though. You get 7x 5 point guns for free, which should mean that those are calculated in the base cost of the model. That would mean that the chassis is costed at 55 points, so why is it that if I add 70 points worth of guns to it it ends up costing 160 and not 125 points? I just want to run a grot gunwagon, GW please.

i have grot mega tanks with 7x KMB, it used to be decent since it was a cheap source of 7KMBs. Not amazing, but in a grot mob they were comically effective (just tissue paper)
For some reason in the new forgeworld book they tweaked its statline a bit (more wounds better save), made bigshootas free, and kept it the same overall price. Meaning now my 7KMB mega tanks are more expensive than a supakannonwagon! (since now theyre flatout add 10pts each, instead of 5pts to comp for the bigshoota being removed)
And i simply cannot justify that. Bigshootas are such a waste of time, even if they go 2d but remain AP0 i dont think they'd be worth it.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i never understood that rule either, especially since it was a very common weapon.
Basic troopers with effectively AP-2 weapons against bigdog enemies? wat?

I think it was more just representing the sheer ferocity of Orks in melee. Its resembled in Purging of Kallidus, when the Orks fight the Dark Angels they dont just go in flailing, they pin the Marines to the ground, hacking at joints and weak spots, the Marines literally get dog piled by 3 or 4 Orks hacking away whilst hes on the ground or in a choke hold, pulling arms off, twisting and yanking at your head, lobbing off legs at the groin or knee. A Terminator might be able to take a direct hit, but when this slow and ponderous hulk of metal just gets over ran by brutes who fight dirty and without honour... No amount of armour will protect you from a mob of Boyz. Thats why the best armour youd get would be a 4+. Not because Choppas were just magic plasma cutters, but instead representing the way Orks fight. As Gorgutz would say "Fight like an Ork!".

We only really see fighting from a Space Marine's perspective, where they just go full Doom mode against hordes of endless Orks/Nids, so people dont really see how Orks fight in novels. It isnt elegant or honourable. The Ork wants you dead and so does all his mates, his aggression is always at 11 and it gets even higher. Its like fighting a Gorilla or Chimpanzee, it wont be pretty, no matter what armour you wear.

Yeah, but it's hard to reflect that type of fighting in a larger scale war game like this when you're basically describing a squad based or RPG scale where you would have the granularity and nuance that can reflect this level of coordination. It's why it's hard to reflect the speed and dexterity of the Eldar in CC now that initiative has been removed as a stat, beyond just giving them Slaanesh style ASF rules. Pretty sure nids can pull off the same kind of pack hunting strats from their endless hordes being directed by the hive mind, yet scything talons just allow you to reroll hit rolls of 1. What you mention also has nothing really to do with the choppa weapon in question, but rather the mob tactics of Orks in general. I think that's sufficiently shown through the +1A from the sheer number of an Ork mob personally.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Hey all, new to Orkz and Im shocked how long it took me to start them!

Quick question on Ork nobz (non Mega armour variety), I love the models and I've been thinking of running two squads of 5, boss with Pk and choppa and 4 with big choppas/choppa all for around 115 pts seems to be very nice squad to maul most targets sub T8 and get good rerolls on the klaw and obsec from Deffskulls.

Is this a decent idea (if using a trukk to get about as a cheap threat for the hordes of boys running up or other trukks with nobz) or am I just in love with a bad idea?

When I go to tournaments I play redundancy mode. If 1 of something is good, i'm going to bring 3. If I can take a squadron I'm taking as many as I can fit/own. A great example of a non-tournament but competitive game I played the other week. Local guy wanted to try out his SOBs against Orkz, I wanted to bring out a semi-competitive shenanigans list. So I dusted off 75 Stormboyz and flooded the game turn 1 with more bodies than you would imagine. I actually won by turn 2 because he just didn't have the ability to bring down so many models in his face so fast. I backed them up by a pair of warboss's on a warbikes so they could all charge turn 1 even after advancing and than mixed in some regular infantry to da jump and that was GG

The problem with doing this with Nobz is....nobz are garbage. 1 Nob is more than twice the price of a boy and has fewer attacks, fewer wounds, fewer guns than an equal amount of boyz. 8 Nobz = 17 boyz and the boyz can take a FREE nob instead of 1 boy so its actually 8 nobz vs 16 boyz and 1 nob. So when it comes to buffing a unit you would rather buff the boyz with more attacks or a 6+FNP etc, and that doesn't even start with the obvious issue of boyz being objective secured for purposes of scoring. If Nobz were more appropriately priced (14-15pts) than their would be an argument to make for some suicide squads of nobz, but even then, only if they had a more reliable delivery system OR they get moved to the troops choice section....which would than bring back the Trukk Boyz list except as Trukk nobz!

 Jidmah wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Looking at the grot mega-tank, it doesnt look so bad 7 big shootas and 1 shoota at 4+ BS plus dakka-dakka, its BS doesnt degrade either, 11 wounds T6 3+ save all for 90 pts and only a fast attack slot

also the regular grot-tank is pretty garbage imo, unless you just want a cheap screening unit in a fast attack slot to fill a brigade or something

Bringing 7 of a bad and inefficient gun doesn't make it great

I'm going to disagree with you Jid. For 90pts a megatank is about on par with buggies. 7 big shootas with DDD = about 12.25 hits, against T4 that is 8.1 wounds, and against a SM 3+ that is 2.7 dmg a turn, honestly not bad for 90pts. For comparison the Scrapjet averages 4 shots with a rokkit which is 1.5 hits, or 1.25 wounds at -2AP so against a SM it has a 0.83 chance to kill a Marine a turn (pretty good honestly) the wing missile likely misses every turn it shoots and than it has 2 TL Big shootas for 6 shots hitting on 5s for 2.3 hits and 6 shots hitting on 4s for 3.5 hits totals almost 6 hits which is 4 wounds and 1.33dmg vs Marines. So if hte rokkit wounds it kills a Marine and the big shootas do almost enough to kill a 2nd, all of this for 20pts MORE than the megatank which has more wounds and a better save than the scrapjet.

If Big shootas get the Heavy bolter treatment (they won't get anything like that in my opinion) they will be great

PiñaColada wrote:
No, please no more attacks on normal boyz. They get enough attacks and it's just that they bounce off everything sans other boyz/cultists. I don't think another 30 attacks are actually going to scare those DG termies and the like, it's just going to take an even longer time to roll. Some flavour of getting AP-1 on choppas is what I want, either through a statline upgrade on the choppa or just Orkz getting +1 AP on the charge as I've suggested before.

Nobz on the other hand could easily get another attack (or just make 'em T5)

I'm torn here honestly, I'd love for boyz to get -1AP on their choppas but I also think they should have that +1 attack baked into their new price as well (8pts is just ridiculous), making them 3A Base. The difference right now. 1 boy at 3attacks -1 AP against a SM is going to do 2 hits, 1 wound and a 50% chance to do 1dmg to the marine. 1 boy at 4 attacks is going to do 2.66 hits, 1.33dmg and .44 chance to do 1dmg. I'm just a bit weary of GW's design path. I have this horrible feeling that the "elites" we struggle against will be getting some new rule which allows them to ignore the 1st AP of a weapon soon.

With that said, the "no save better than 4+" sounds good but there is zero doubt in my head that the SM fanbase would throw a tantrum about not getting their special snowflake rules.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Looking at the grot mega-tank, it doesnt look so bad 7 big shootas and 1 shoota at 4+ BS plus dakka-dakka, its BS doesnt degrade either, 11 wounds T6 3+ save all for 90 pts and only a fast attack slot

also the regular grot-tank is pretty garbage imo, unless you just want a cheap screening unit in a fast attack slot to fill a brigade or something

Bringing 7 of a bad and inefficient gun doesn't make it great

I'm going to disagree with you Jid. For 90pts a megatank is about on par with buggies. 7 big shootas with DDD = about 12.25 hits, against T4 that is 8.1 wounds, and against a SM 3+ that is 2.7 dmg a turn, honestly not bad for 90pts. For comparison the Scrapjet averages 4 shots with a rokkit which is 1.5 hits, or 1.25 wounds at -2AP so against a SM it has a 0.83 chance to kill a Marine a turn (pretty good honestly) the wing missile likely misses every turn it shoots and than it has 2 TL Big shootas for 6 shots hitting on 5s for 2.3 hits and 6 shots hitting on 4s for 3.5 hits totals almost 6 hits which is 4 wounds and 1.33dmg vs Marines. So if hte rokkit wounds it kills a Marine and the big shootas do almost enough to kill a 2nd, all of this for 20pts MORE than the megatank which has more wounds and a better save than the scrapjet.

According to your own math, for 20 points the scrapjet kills almost twice as many marines, has rather decent melee, benefits from cultures and stratagems, doesn't degrade and can actually reliable threaten vehicles and gravis.
How exactly does that make the megatank "great"?

there is no way a similar cost of rokkits and bigshootas has the math come out to favor the bigshootas against marines.
GrotMegaTanks suck, because bigshootas suck and the other weapons are doubling its cost for some reason.

I dont think the grot mega-tank sucks, it has grot ballistic skill, and a fair amount of dakka for its point costs, I thinking spending 10 pts per kustom mega-blasta or rokkit launcha, takes away from the value of all the free big shootas, they might not be as great at taking down marines, but they are excellent as an anti-horde tool, or with its long range it can take down the cheap units your opponent is trying to use to score points with and not really fight with.

also the fact that it fills out a fast attack slot can make it perfect for filling out a brigade

bat702 wrote:
I dont think the grot mega-tank sucks, it has grot ballistic skill, and a fair amount of dakka for its point costs, I thinking spending 10 pts per kustom mega-blasta or rokkit launcha, takes away from the value of all the free big shootas, they might not be as great at taking down marines, but they are excellent as an anti-horde tool, or with its long range it can take down the cheap units your opponent is trying to use to score points with and not really fight with.

also the fact that it fills out a fast attack slot can make it perfect for filling out a brigade

I would argue against it being a good anti-horde tool because the lack of AP makes it very weak against enemy units in cover, which is usually where those cheap units are hiding. This isn't factoring any dense cover either, where the -1 to hit makes you go back to regular orky BS5+. Not to mention the fact that Orks as an army is not in need of a dedicated anti-horde unit, most of our core units like boyz already cover that role well and the current meta, outside of maybe some Tyranid lists, don't do horde well which means you're effectively bringing a weapon you don't need given the elite-heavy environment 9th ed favours at the moment.

Goreshrek wrote:For boyz, bring back the Choppa Rule (5th edition?) - limits opponent armor save to 4+.
You could really tear thru a unit with that.

Please no. That was the worst Ork codex written by the most clueless moron who stripped all the characters out of Orks. Anything hinting back to that should be auto-purged by the inquisition.

I don't think spamming attacks by boyz is a good option either. We've seen a slow evolution of Boyz slowly improving based on the game/codex creep improving. A Boy should be a legitimate threat in numbers to a marine but not on his own. He should also be strong and tough to be a threat. -1 AP, S4, 2A (with improvements to 3 or 4) and WS 3+ should be enough.

 Jidmah wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Looking at the grot mega-tank, it doesnt look so bad 7 big shootas and 1 shoota at 4+ BS plus dakka-dakka, its BS doesnt degrade either, 11 wounds T6 3+ save all for 90 pts and only a fast attack slot

also the regular grot-tank is pretty garbage imo, unless you just want a cheap screening unit in a fast attack slot to fill a brigade or something

Bringing 7 of a bad and inefficient gun doesn't make it great

I'm going to disagree with you Jid. For 90pts a megatank is about on par with buggies. 7 big shootas with DDD = about 12.25 hits, against T4 that is 8.1 wounds, and against a SM 3+ that is 2.7 dmg a turn, honestly not bad for 90pts. For comparison the Scrapjet averages 4 shots with a rokkit which is 1.5 hits, or 1.25 wounds at -2AP so against a SM it has a 0.83 chance to kill a Marine a turn (pretty good honestly) the wing missile likely misses every turn it shoots and than it has 2 TL Big shootas for 6 shots hitting on 5s for 2.3 hits and 6 shots hitting on 4s for 3.5 hits totals almost 6 hits which is 4 wounds and 1.33dmg vs Marines. So if hte rokkit wounds it kills a Marine and the big shootas do almost enough to kill a 2nd, all of this for 20pts MORE than the megatank which has more wounds and a better save than the scrapjet.

According to your own math, for 20 points the scrapjet kills almost twice as many marines, has rather decent melee, benefits from cultures and stratagems, doesn't degrade and can actually reliable threaten vehicles and gravis.
How exactly does that make the megatank "great"?

A big shoota is over priced, as I have stated a BUNCH of times, at 5pts, but atm the model is 90pts with technically 35pts of big shootas. It puts out more firepower for less points than 3 Deffkoptas, which are listed as a step below great by this threads 1st page which is run by you. It has better toughness, and a better save, ramshackle and 1 less wound than those 3 deffkoptas. And of course it hits on 4s rather than 5s, so its actually does significantly more ranged damage than those deffkoptas. Now of course the deffkoptas are great for speed and objective scoring, and at 35pts for a throwaway fast unit its not terrible. But I would argue that the megatank is better than a similar value of Deffkoptas which means its either on the cusp of going to Cyan or solidly in blue.

And the last sentence of my post which you left out was

If Big shootas get the Heavy bolter treatment (they won't get anything like that in my opinion) they will be great

So if those Grot-Megatanks are now putting out 21 S5 AP-1 D2 shots a turn they will be great, but I also don't think big shootas will get that buff and if they do it will come with a hefty price increase which will ruin the entire point of the buff.

First Post! Wanna Thank Jid for the very comprehensive list and frequent discussion you all have here.

I just picked up the hobby in November to play semi-competitive games with 2 of my friends who run Ultramarines and Death Guard.

Following the advice and conversations here, I did really well in our 500 and 1k point games, but now that we are at 2k, I still can find wins, but it has gotten much, much more difficult.

I was curious what you all thought of the following list and tactics -- designed to be pretty straightforward.



The general idea is:
30 boyz threaten da jump turn 1 and keeps units far back to keep an honest screen -allows big units like ghaz to advance the board behind cover more often.
1 squad of boyz to hold easy objectives or actions, depending on mission
1 killsaw nob boyz for a trukk to hit a side or power up the turn 2 or 3 charge from ghaz

5 MANz in the bonebreaka (with the big mek inside to kff large dedicated anti vehicle units, but hops outside with the 30 boyz if we are sloggin' and cant da jump early)

Tellyporta Gorkanaut with 3 MANz to ramming speed charge and "guarantee" a place to break a front line vehicle spot and provide a distraction for ghaz & crew to advance during their following shooting phase


Do you all think that it might be better to go deathskulls, drop ghaz and a mek gun to replace them with 2-3 scrapjets and/or 1 dragsta? If I drop goffs, I would probably replace the bonebreaka with a regular battlewagon as well and throw 10 boyz in with the 5 MANz.

Love to hear your thoughts folks!

Nobody takes bigshoota deffkoptas for the shooting, they take it for the sheer speed for objective reasons.
Bigshoota variant is way cheaper and likely ignored since it wont do any damage, rokkit variant can hurt and thus will draw attention but it also doubles the kopta cost.

I agree that grot mega tanks are mediocre but not "totally useless/trash/insert hyperbole here". Mega tanks fall in the category of cheap, quite durable (for an ork unit - the battlewagon only has a 4+ save after all), support and/or distraction. With all big shootas, they don't break the bank and shrug off small arms fire. If the opponent devotes proper anti-tank, then 1.) you still have a (slight) chance of saving it with its invul and ramshackle; 2.) good, it means they didn't fire at a more important vehicle. Obviously, the firepower isn't great, but this effects a lot of Ork units, not just the grot mega tank. Its the fact that they tend to survive late in the game (opponents usually ignore it), allowing it to harass their units, pepper shots at a distance, and every now and then get lucky and do some actual damage.

I also disagree with the sentiment that they are bad at anti-horde. IMO, they are adequate at long-ranged anti-horde depending on your list and opponent. Having said that, I would argue that long-ranged anti-horde isn't that useful in 9th, since the focus is on mid-board.

Obviously, I am not saying that they are an auto-include or even a good choice for a competitive list, but in a casual list, relaxed small tournament, or a pickup game, they aren't going to actively hinder you. They have their uses that they fine at (again, not great). They definitely aren't good enough to take multiple in a single list. This saddens me, of course, since I have 3 mega tanks, 15 grot tanks, and 18 killa kans, I would love to run a grot army again...but alas, those days are gone for now.

Chaff clearing isn't really an issue with Orks, though. Spending 90 points for 7 big shootas isn't that exciting.

Hence why I said you add some KMBs, just not 7, because KMBs slap. 2 or 3 KMBs makes the model 110, 120 points, which is solid with the body and considering it hits on 4s.

Throw them in a grot mob detachment and you got a stew going.

tulun wrote:
Chaff clearing isn't really an issue with Orks, though. Spending 90 points for 7 big shootas isn't that exciting.

Hence why I said you add some KMBs, just not 7, because KMBs slap. 2 or 3 KMBs makes the model 110, 120 points, which is solid with the body and considering it hits on 4s.

Throw them in a grot mob detachment and you got a stew going.

That is the problem though, its not 90pts for 7 big shootas. its 90points for a T6 vehicle with a 3+ save and 11 wounds that just happens to have 7 big shootas on it. I mean, compare its durability to that of naked battlewagon, the wagon is more durable but not by a huge amount AND it has zero guns for more points.

I think its a good unit for harassing and distraction, but 7 big shootas in their current iteration aren't going to win you a battle. As far as anti-horde....i mean, kind of, but its more a distraction carnnifex than anything, people see a big vehicle and if you put a lot of guns on it, you might distract your opponent into wasting some precious turns shooting at it

SemperMortis wrote:

tulun wrote:
Chaff clearing isn't really an issue with Orks, though. Spending 90 points for 7 big shootas isn't that exciting.

Hence why I said you add some KMBs, just not 7, because KMBs slap. 2 or 3 KMBs makes the model 110, 120 points, which is solid with the body and considering it hits on 4s.

Throw them in a grot mob detachment and you got a stew going.

That is the problem though, its not 90pts for 7 big shootas. its 90points for a T6 vehicle with a 3+ save and 11 wounds that just happens to have 7 big shootas on it. I mean, compare its durability to that of naked battlewagon, the wagon is more durable but not by a huge amount AND it has zero guns for more points.

I think its a good unit for harassing and distraction, but 7 big shootas in their current iteration aren't going to win you a battle. As far as anti-horde....i mean, kind of, but its more a distraction carnnifex than anything, people see a big vehicle and if you put a lot of guns on it, you might distract your opponent into wasting some precious turns shooting at it

Yeah the body is pretty nice. But honestly, adding 20 points so it actually has some punch is not a bad idea. Distraction carnifexes actually *can* do stuff if you ignore them. People will just learn to ignore it and they won't be threatened when they do.

We could see a return meta of low toughness infantry actually being a threat, ie to your t-shirt save orc boys, if you can kill those pesky dark-eldar poison kabal warriors before they unleash a cheap poison volley into your orcs, that might be worthwhile, also if the guard codex literally EVER releases we could see a resurgence of astra-militarum into the meta, and with them thousands of cheap dice-rolls aiming to mow down your poor innocent orc boyz

bat702 wrote:
We could see a return meta of low toughness infantry actually being a threat, ie to your t-shirt save orc boys, if you can kill those pesky dark-eldar poison kabal warriors before they unleash a cheap poison volley into your orcs, that might be worthwhile, also if the guard codex literally EVER releases we could see a resurgence of astra-militarum into the meta, and with them thousands of cheap dice-rolls aiming to mow down your poor innocent orc boyz

Bud, the dominant ork meta in tournaments for the last 4-5 months has been Goff Green Tide backed by Ghaz. Orkz can't compete in the vehicle/high durability department right now, so we spam the board with cheap infantry and cap objectives. I played a game recently against a salamanders player, who thought he was being lenient by only taking devestator multi-meltas as opposed to eradicators. All 3 of my buggies and my 2 battlewagons were dead by turn 3.

Having cheaper, flimsier versions of other armies units has always been the ork design philosophy. It's just sort of what we do. But you can sort of get away with spamming deffskull killtanks with a mek nearby. With a little luck they can live waaaaay longer than the enemy wants.

While we're on the topic of grots, I'm going to be playing a very beers and pretzels game and using a very dumb joke list. I'm trying to do a list made almost entirely of grots. I want to ideally do it with the Grot Mob subkultur. As far as I know, Makari is our only gretchin HQ, however he's Goffs and the caveat that he doesn't break the subkultur of a detachment is that he needs to be in the same detachment as Ghazzy. Does this mean that if I take Makari as my HQ that I lose the Grot subkultur for my detachment?

SemperMortis wrote:
A big shoota is over priced, as I have stated a BUNCH of times, at 5pts, but atm the model is 90pts with technically 35pts of big shootas. It puts out more firepower for less points than 3 Deffkoptas, which are listed as a step below great by this threads 1st page which is run by you. It has better toughness, and a better save, ramshackle and 1 less wound than those 3 deffkoptas. And of course it hits on 4s rather than 5s, so its actually does significantly more ranged damage than those deffkoptas. Now of course the deffkoptas are great for speed and objective scoring, and at 35pts for a throwaway fast unit its not terrible. But I would argue that the megatank is better than a similar value of Deffkoptas which means its either on the cusp of going to Cyan or solidly in blue.

If you think koptas are taken for their damage output, you really have lost all touch to gaming reality.

bicycletoes wrote:

Spoiler:

First Post! Wanna Thank Jid for the very comprehensive list and frequent discussion you all have here.

I just picked up the hobby in November to play semi-competitive games with 2 of my friends who run Ultramarines and Death Guard.

Following the advice and conversations here, I did really well in our 500 and 1k point games, but now that we are at 2k, I still can find wins, but it has gotten much, much more difficult.

I was curious what you all thought of the following list and tactics -- designed to be pretty straightforward.

The general idea is:
30 boyz threaten da jump turn 1 and keeps units far back to keep an honest screen -allows big units like ghaz to advance the board behind cover more often.
1 squad of boyz to hold easy objectives or actions, depending on mission
1 killsaw nob boyz for a trukk to hit a side or power up the turn 2 or 3 charge from ghaz

5 MANz in the bonebreaka (with the big mek inside to kff large dedicated anti vehicle units, but hops outside with the 30 boyz if we are sloggin' and cant da jump early)

Tellyporta Gorkanaut with 3 MANz to ramming speed charge and "guarantee" a place to break a front line vehicle spot and provide a distraction for ghaz & crew to advance during their following shooting phase


Do you all think that it might be better to go deathskulls, drop ghaz and a mek gun to replace them with 2-3 scrapjets and/or 1 dragsta? If I drop goffs, I would probably replace the bonebreaka with a regular battlewagon as well and throw 10 boyz in with the 5 MANz.

Love to hear your thoughts folks!

Welcome to da Waaagh!

Essentially you have fallen into the one big trap orks have and that is creating a combined arms force - mixing vehicles with infantry.

As none of our units are particularly durable, orks survive by relying on target saturation, which essentially means that you leave a part of your opponent's guns without good targets. You either do by flooding the table with almost exclusively vehicles only or by running no vehicles at all.
There are a few units that can go in either type of list either because they very durable for their points no matter what shoots them - most prominently MANz and mek guns.

One option would be to go full goff horde right now, just make sure to upgrade all your boyz to skarboyz when you run do. Instead of all the vehicles you should look into kommadoz or storm boyz to score objectives and max out your boyz squad. You can either tellyport or jump your MANz or just footslog them. When you march them directly onto center objectives they will usually meet something to fight there. If not... free VP!

The other option would be diving fully into the speedwaaagh - in that case you'll probably drop Thrakka, weirdboy, painboyz and downsize the boyz mob to replace them with warboss on warbikes, scrapjets and shokk-jump dragstas. Replacing the bonebreaka with a regular wagon is usually a good idea, as the bonebreaka is great and all, but often isn't worth the extra points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
While we're on the topic of grots, I'm going to be playing a very beers and pretzels game and using a very dumb joke list. I'm trying to do a list made almost entirely of grots. I want to ideally do it with the Grot Mob subkultur. As far as I know, Makari is our only gretchin HQ, however he's Goffs and the caveat that he doesn't break the subkultur of a detachment is that he needs to be in the same detachment as Ghazzy. Does this mean that if I take Makari as my HQ that I lose the Grot subkultur for my detachment?

Correct. I've seen a couple of Thrakka's converted to being grot-operated mechs though

 Jidmah wrote:


Welcome to da Waaagh!

Essentially you have fallen into the one big trap orks have and that is creating a combined arms force - mixing vehicles with infantry.

As none of our units are particularly durable, orks survive by relying on target saturation, which essentially means that you leave a part of your opponent's guns without good targets. You either do by flooding the table with almost exclusively vehicles only or by running no vehicles at all.
There are a few units that can go in either type of list either because they very durable for their points no matter what shoots them - most prominently MANz and mek guns.

One option would be to go full goff horde right now, just make sure to upgrade all your boyz to skarboyz when you run do. Instead of all the vehicles you should look into kommadoz or storm boyz to score objectives and max out your boyz squad. You can either tellyport or jump your MANz or just footslog them. When you march them directly onto center objectives they will usually meet something to fight there. If not... free VP!

The other option would be diving fully into the speedwaaagh - in that case you'll probably drop Thrakka, weirdboy, painboyz and downsize the boyz mob to replace them with warboss on warbikes, scrapjets and shokk-jump dragstas. Replacing the bonebreaka with a regular wagon is usually a good idea, as the bonebreaka is great and all, but often isn't worth the extra points.

I appreciate the feedback! Unfortunately I havent bought and painted many more boyz than the list currently has so I suppose this lends my play towards the buggy style -- however I also am maxed at 3 scrapjets and 1 dragsta. I retooled the list a small bit -- I think it lends itself more towards the buggy list you may have had in mind:



Couldnt decide on a spell past da jump. I like the idea of da jumping the weird boy near the bikeboss and making him a kill missle.

I think it's looking like a pretty good list now Bicycletoes. I'd maybe swap some points around so you can put a deffrolla on that battlewagon, maybe by swapping a boyz squad to some grots. The dragstas are great and if you want to squeeze another one in there then I'd also recommend the kustom job (it's probably not worth it on a singular dragsta though).

Regarding psychic powers, the deffskulls specific one from Saga of the Beast is pretty good so I'd consider that one. I'm not personally sold on more than one warboss, since without da biggest boss and da killa klaw they aren't that great IMO. (I'm assuming he's there for advance & charge on the boyz and MANZ which could work, just remember to not expect too much from him in actual CC)

I also like kommandos better than stormboyz but that's a minor gripe as both a pretty solid choices.

I also want to say that even if you're getting beat by UM and DG you have to remember that those codices are significantly stronger than orks ATM. So don't fret too much and considering how we're most likely getting a new codex ourselves soon I'd mostly just look into buying the models you really like as almost anything is subject to change right now.

PiñaColada wrote:
I think it's looking like a pretty good list now Bicycletoes. I'd maybe swap some points around so you can put a deffrolla on that battlewagon, maybe by swapping a boyz squad to some grots. The dragstas are great and if you want to squeeze another one in there then I'd also recommend the kustom job (it's probably not worth it on a singular dragsta though).

Regarding psychic powers, the deffskulls specific one from Saga of the Beast is pretty good so I'd consider that one. I'm not personally sold on more than one warboss, since without da biggest boss and da killa klaw they aren't that great IMO. (I'm assuming he's there for advance & charge on the boyz and MANZ which could work, just remember to not expect too much from him in actual CC)

I also like kommandos better than stormboyz but that's a minor gripe as both a pretty solid choices.

I also want to say that even if you're getting beat by UM and DG you have to remember that those codices are significantly stronger than orks ATM. So don't fret too much and considering how we're most likely getting a new codex ourselves soon I'd mostly just look into buying the models you really like as almost anything is subject to change right now.

You are right, I didnt even remember that one! No requirement on LoS or visibility also means that it is really flexible with da jump as well.

I also like your idea of deffrolla, especially since I am taking a warboss on warbike, but I really am not a fan of taking gretchin in general. I have had nightmares vs plagueburst crawler and a thunderfire cannon. However, that would free up 10 more points to throw around, maybe a klaw on the storm boyz (dont have any kommando models atm either ).

I see what you are saying with the second warboss, but I am not sure that a 4 PL replacement is necessarily better (I could go big mek in mega armor if I put in the gretchin but still have to mess with points I suppose). I feel its okay because deathskulls allow me to reroll the damage roll anyways (except maybe sometimes vs DG) and the ability to advance and charge with 10 boyz and/or manz to a mid board objective turn 2 feels really strong. I will shop around on those other ends and see what works out points wise.

Let me know if you want another list posted, haha.

I really appreciate this feedback guys!

bicycletoes wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
I think it's looking like a pretty good list now Bicycletoes. I'd maybe swap some points around so you can put a deffrolla on that battlewagon, maybe by swapping a boyz squad to some grots. The dragstas are great and if you want to squeeze another one in there then I'd also recommend the kustom job (it's probably not worth it on a singular dragsta though).

Regarding psychic powers, the deffskulls specific one from Saga of the Beast is pretty good so I'd consider that one. I'm not personally sold on more than one warboss, since without da biggest boss and da killa klaw they aren't that great IMO. (I'm assuming he's there for advance & charge on the boyz and MANZ which could work, just remember to not expect too much from him in actual CC)

I also like kommandos better than stormboyz but that's a minor gripe as both a pretty solid choices.

I also want to say that even if you're getting beat by UM and DG you have to remember that those codices are significantly stronger than orks ATM. So don't fret too much and considering how we're most likely getting a new codex ourselves soon I'd mostly just look into buying the models you really like as almost anything is subject to change right now.

You are right, I didnt even remember that one! No requirement on LoS or visibility also means that it is really flexible with da jump as well.

I also like your idea of deffrolla, especially since I am taking a warboss on warbike, but I really am not a fan of taking gretchin in general. I have had nightmares vs plagueburst crawler and a thunderfire cannon. However, that would free up 10 more points to throw around, maybe a klaw on the storm boyz (dont have any kommando models atm either ).

I see what you are saying with the second warboss, but I am not sure that a 4 PL replacement is necessarily better (I could go big mek in mega armor if I put in the gretchin but still have to mess with points I suppose). I feel its okay because deathskulls allow me to reroll the damage roll anyways (except maybe sometimes vs DG) and the ability to advance and charge with 10 boyz and/or manz to a mid board objective turn 2 feels really strong. I will shop around on those other ends and see what works out points wise.

Let me know if you want another list posted, haha.

I really appreciate this feedback guys!

I just tried out a deffskullz list in a tournament this weekend and these are my fresh takes;

1) the rokkit launchas in the boyz squads are awful, even with the re-roll. You want boyz advancing which means you're hitting on 6+ which sucks even with a reroll. Not worth the 10 points it costs you. Power klaws are much more important. PKs rerolling 1 hit is super strong.
2) Make sure you attack with your PKs first in fight phase so you can use all your rerolls as needed, and any leftover you can use with your choppas. Otherwise you end up saving all your re-rolls for the PKs and maybe not using them all.
3) Squads of 3 meganobz are pretty lackluster. Mine got blown off the table by a single psycannon squad.
4) Maniacal seizure is really good. I used it against a daemon prince of tzeentch and was able to wipe it off the board with a squad of boyz with no problems. After da jumping the MANZ up, your weirdboy could turn into an offensive support character.
5) focus on objectives. Obsec everything infantry is a HUGE advantage. Take domination type secondaries whenever you can.

As far as your list goes, I would suggest dropping the squad of 3 MANz since you're using a morkanaut instead of a gorkanaut, and drop the warboss and all those silly infantry rokkits. That'll give you 230 pts to work with. You could put a squad of tankbustas in the mNAUT, a big mek w/ KFF could ride in 1 of the trukks and then pop out when it explodes, or you could add more buggies or kommandos as others suggested.

zoltan88 wrote:


I just tried out a deffskullz list in a tournament this weekend and these are my fresh takes;

1) the rokkit launchas in the boyz squads are awful, even with the re-roll. You want boyz advancing which means you're hitting on 6+ which sucks even with a reroll. Not worth the 10 points it costs you. Power klaws are much more important. PKs rerolling 1 hit is super strong.
2) Make sure you attack with your PKs first in fight phase so you can use all your rerolls as needed, and any leftover you can use with your choppas. Otherwise you end up saving all your re-rolls for the PKs and maybe not using them all.
3) Squads of 3 meganobz are pretty lackluster. Mine got blown off the table by a single psycannon squad.
4) Maniacal seizure is really good. I used it against a daemon prince of tzeentch and was able to wipe it off the board with a squad of boyz with no problems. After da jumping the MANZ up, your weirdboy could turn into an offensive support character.
5) focus on objectives. Obsec everything infantry is a HUGE advantage. Take domination type secondaries whenever you can.

As far as your list goes, I would suggest dropping the squad of 3 MANz since you're using a morkanaut instead of a gorkanaut, and drop the warboss and all those silly infantry rokkits. That'll give you 230 pts to work with. You could put a squad of tankbustas in the mNAUT, a big mek w/ KFF could ride in 1 of the trukks and then pop out when it explodes, or you could add more buggies or kommandos as others suggested.

1) Yah I sort of felt the same way. I have done it in my lower pt games as well and it felt like the rerolls would net me 0-2 extra rokkit hits over the whole game, which usually isnt necessarily even a downed marine. Quick math says you hit 55% of the time without advancing and 19% of the time while advancing ( both without factoring DDD) but my experience doesnt feel that way. Maybe its so quick I just discount the successes.
2) Yah PK with Deathskulls feels really optimal. Optimizing order seems really nice though. What about if you are attacking a unit where a model already has 1 W remaining? Is it worth doping the choppas first to try and shave off a few wounds first?
3) Hmm thats something I hadnt considered. I thought it was okay because if they come down with the tellyporta'd Gork (I mistyped my first post, sorry!) I am safe inside during the charge and can hop out and tag some high armor target or low AP fighter up board. For this one I wanna experience the failure first to see what caused it -- My mind has scenarios where they cannot even be shot at until bottom of turn 3.
4) Great to know! I have never used it in any game. Is it best to use vs high armor targets or high hit rate units? Like, if you had to choose between a plague marine squad about to melee or a plague burst crawler about to get locked up by boyz, which would you target with it? I am new to it so I have no clue.
5) Will keep this in mind. I feel like this list is mobile enough to take engage or domination depending on the number of objectives. For a 4 objective mission, which would you prefer?

Great experiential feedback, I really appreciate it!

Hi,

Do you think a list with morka / gorka or both is playable? Especially in semi-competitive?

I have two that are collecting dust and I don't want to wait another 6 months to play them (even if we are already waiting long enough for our new codex ).
I try to make lists with but nothing that impresses me to put on a table.

The Morkanaut with the sparkly bitz kustom job is legit good IMO. 18 wounds makes it a bit cumbersome with regards to shooting and obscuring terrain but it's got good shooting, a KFF and decent enough melee.

The Gorkanaut is the lesser of the two, but the slug gubbin kustom job is a proper power upgrade and makes it decent enough to field I think. What I dislike about the gorkanaut is that you basically have to tellyporta it, which means you're spending 2cp (+1 for the kustom job) and quite possibly another 2cp for ramming speed. It makes it really costly, but at least it also becomes quite scary then.