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BDBurrow wrote:


I think they stay at 8 ppm based off of recent codexes. Ad mech rangers and vanguard improved considerably and went from 9 to 8 pts. I think it's entirely possible boyz still go down to 7 pts.

If boyz go back down to 7ppm I'll be ecstatic, that math brings them up to 11.4 models at 80pts and means the opponent needs about 41 S4 hits to kill them all. That would actually make them scary, still not as good durability wise as they were against Space Marine tacs back in like 4th but i'll gladly take it.

SemperMortis wrote:

BDBurrow wrote:


I think they stay at 8 ppm based off of recent codexes. Ad mech rangers and vanguard improved considerably and went from 9 to 8 pts. I think it's entirely possible boyz still go down to 7 pts.

If boyz go back down to 7ppm I'll be ecstatic, that math brings them up to 11.4 models at 80pts and means the opponent needs about 41 S4 hits to kill them all. That would actually make them scary, still not as good durability wise as they were against Space Marine tacs back in like 4th but i'll gladly take it.

I'm not sure 7 points would be healthy for the game as is. I don't want orks to be the next boogeyman.

Also there is beast snaggas to be sold...

lol wow, Orcs are now tougher, and stronger than space marines! I sense some impending space marine saltiness incoming...

enni wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

BDBurrow wrote:


I think they stay at 8 ppm based off of recent codexes. Ad mech rangers and vanguard improved considerably and went from 9 to 8 pts. I think it's entirely possible boyz still go down to 7 pts.

If boyz go back down to 7ppm I'll be ecstatic, that math brings them up to 11.4 models at 80pts and means the opponent needs about 41 S4 hits to kill them all. That would actually make them scary, still not as good durability wise as they were against Space Marine tacs back in like 4th but i'll gladly take it.

I'm not sure 7 points would be healthy for the game as is. I don't want orks to be the next boogeyman.

Also there is beast snaggas to be sold...

Factor in the dmg buffs other factions have been given of late, factor in GW just releasing a new troop choice for Marines which gets S5 weapons with -1AP as the norm, factor in the loss of CC ability from the new CC rules as well as Stormshields and other abilities ignoring -1AP, 7ppm orkz is in my opinion HIGHLY unlikely, but it wouldn't break the game. At most it would force the meta to shift away from bringing -2+ AP and 2D weapons as the norm to bringing more anti-horde weaponry which isn't considered as competitive right now, not because it isn't good, but because it doesn't kill 3+ save Marines as fast as their current weapons load outs.

Yeah, the toughness boost makes a BIG difference for a lot of Ork units across the board. T6 base foot warbosses, T5 Nobz/Meganobz, as well as T6 Bikerz/Biker Nobz helps deal with a lot of the mid strength weaponry being used atm. T3 grots means they finally won't be wounded on 2's by like half the infantry weapons in the game. Wonder if they're going to boost some of the Walkers similarly, since that would help give them more toughness without copying the -1D for loyalist dreads, though hopefully that comes with Ramshackle as a standard across all Ork vehicles.

The changes look great.

I think T5 is really stupid -- an innate FNP would make more sense and like a boy is as bulky as a Custode? But whatever it's hopefully a free buff.

That point differential for snaggas is gonna realllly matter here. If it's like 2 ppm similar from tac to intercessor, good bye boys.

+1 str, 6++, and +1 to hit with your str 5 choppas against gak the unit is weak against? SIGN ME UP.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
lol wow, Orcs are now tougher, and stronger than space marines! I sense some impending space marine saltiness incoming...

Again, it really depends on what the price point is. Just remember, in 4th a Marine was 15pts and an Ork boy was 6. The Ork was AS tough as the Marine (T4) and on the charge was also S4, The biggest difference was that the Marine had a 3+ save and his bolter had AP5 which went through orkz 6+ armor. Orkz were 2.5x cheaper than Marines and Marines were 3x more durable vs S4 hits than Orkz were. (2 bolter hits to kill an Ork, 6 to kill a Marine)

Atm Orkz are 8 and Tacs are 18. The Ork takes 1.16 S4 wounds to kill, the Marine takes 6. So the Marine is now 5x more durable but the price point is now orkz are 2.25x cheaper. A lot has changed since those old rules but in game those Marines have become significantly more deadly as well as more durable, the orkz have become a lot more deadly (base S4, DDD, etc) but haven't become more durable. I'm really hoping for 8ppm Boyz, i'd LOVE 7ppm boyz, but I expect 9ppm and DREAD 10ppm boyz.

I think if GW can raise first born marines to 2W without substantially increasing their points, then they can raise orcs to T5 without increasing their points either.

I am loving their new AP 1 choppas too. This is going to make a massive difference.

Given that GW wants to push new models. I am guessing the difference between Snagga Boyz and normal Boyz will be like the difference between Primatis and first born marines.

You can still play normal Boyz for sure but if you want to be "competitive", you will take Snagga Boyz. Just my opinion.

tulun wrote:
The changes look great.

I think T5 is really stupid -- an innate FNP would make more sense and like a boy is as bulky as a Custode? But whatever it's hopefully a free buff.

That point differential for snaggas is gonna realllly matter here. If it's like 2 ppm similar from tac to intercessor, good bye boys.

+1 str, 6++, and +1 to hit with your str 5 choppas against gak the unit is weak against? SIGN ME UP.

I'm actually against the FNP compared to the T5, T5 makes it so most anti-infantry weapons don't wound us on 4's or 3's, versus the FNP which can be cancelled out by the amount of multi-damage weapons currently out and about. I can also see the reasoning that FNP slows down the game with rolls, so I'm fine with the toughness bump.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I think if GW can raise first born marines to 2W without substantially increasing their points, then they can raise orcs to T5 without increasing their points either.

I am loving their new AP 1 choppas too. This is going to make a massive difference.

Given that GW wants to push new models. I am guessing the difference between Snagga Boyz and normal Boyz will be like the difference between Primatis and first born marines.

You can still play normal Boyz for sure but if you want to be "competitive", you will take Snagga Boyz. Just my opinion.

Marines went from 15pts in 4th to 18pts in 9th. They gained 2x durability, doctrines, +1 attack in 1st round of combat, Bolter discipline and a few other changes.
Orkz went from 6pts in 4th to 8ps in 9th (ATM). If we gain T5 without a price increase we will have gained +1 S and +1T and DDD. The +1 Strength only matters AFTER the charge . I think we've already paid for these buffs, I just hope GW agrees.

I think T5 is really stupid -- an innate FNP would make more sense and like a boy is as bulky as a Custode? But whatever it's hopefully a free buff.

If only GW had other stats to fiddle with to represent different level of resilience. We could have a stat to represent the armor and gives multiple healh points to a model for example, instead of simply having Thoughness.

Oh. Wait.

 Grimskul wrote:

tulun wrote:
The changes look great.

I think T5 is really stupid -- an innate FNP would make more sense and like a boy is as bulky as a Custode? But whatever it's hopefully a free buff.

That point differential for snaggas is gonna realllly matter here. If it's like 2 ppm similar from tac to intercessor, good bye boys.

+1 str, 6++, and +1 to hit with your str 5 choppas against gak the unit is weak against? SIGN ME UP.

I'm actually against the FNP compared to the T5, T5 makes it so most anti-infantry weapons don't wound us on 4's or 3's, versus the FNP which can be cancelled out by the amount of multi-damage weapons currently out and about. I can also see the reasoning that FNP slows down the game with rolls, so I'm fine with the toughness bump.

Agree entirely. The FNP is almost completely ignored by the meta which is currently D2. So a 6+ FNP equates to a 8.3 chance to survive against D2 weapons. The T5 at least lowers our chances to be wounded by most weaponry by a significant amount. S4 weaponry just became 33% less effective, S5-7 just became 25% less effective.

40k has three different kind of stats to represent resilience.

1. Armor save, invul saves.
2. Toughness
3. HP.

I think that's quite enough already.

It's more so a tiny boy is as bulky as a Custode or a SM in massive armour. It just feels a bit off. I imagine Custodes will likely be going to T6 or something.
I'd almost rather the boy be t4 and snagga be t5, as they seem much bigger.

And no, 2 wound boys would probably be broken if they were cheap, as they should be. We're a horde army.

All this boy and snagga boys is fine and dandy, but what im worried about is the difference between a snagga boy and a Nob.

I fear that the Nobz will really struggle (as they even are right now) to find a spot between boys and Mega Nobz. Or in this case, between snagga boyz and Mega Nobz.

I doubt that Nobz get Toughness 6, so both will have T5, and they arent really that much tougher than snagga boys, with Nobz having a save value of 4, where as snagga boys have a save value of 6 and an invul save. Nobz have 1 more wound though, but often id say you pick Orks for offense, not for defence. so Im guessing Nobz will probably struggle still in this edition.

I hope they get strength 6 then or something as Nobz are meant to be stronger than Boys. That would make them interesting.

That would also mean strength 6 on Mega Nobz.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
40k has three different kind of stats to represent resilience.

1. Armor save, invul saves.
2. Toughness
3. HP.

I think that's quite enough already.

psst...i think that was the joke

T5 for boyz wont matter that much, if it translates to other units gaining toughnes, and that is a BIG IF, yeah that would be absolutley great!
a shame that snaggaz didnt get a third attack though... the only difference between them and regular boyz is just +1S and the +1 to hit against bigger stuff.
7point orks would be bad for the metagame me thinks... but i dont care... i just wanna fill my trukks with snaggaz

i curious about cultures now.

wojtekwroc wrote:
I am wondering if snaggas stats, means that goff skar boyz will be gone.

Probably. Personally, I hope that goff get +1S as clan trait.

Oh, it was a joke? lol Sorry, it wasn't really very obvious from just the writing.

In any case, I think these new upcoming changes sound great! I always saw orcs as a melee centric army first and shooting second, but 8th edition seem to have turned orcs into a janky sort of shooting army with just the orcs with the killa claws or the warboss doing the mega melee damage, while the rest of the orcs were just there as bodies. These changes will hopefully bring the melee back into orcs again!

RedNoak wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
40k has three different kind of stats to represent resilience.

1. Armor save, invul saves.
2. Toughness
3. HP.

I think that's quite enough already.

psst...i think that was the joke

T5 for boyz wont matter that much, if it translates to other units gaining toughnes, and that is a BIG IF, yeah that would be absolutley great!
a shame that snaggaz didnt get a third attack though... the only difference between them and regular boyz is just +1S and the +1 to hit against bigger stuff.
7point orks would be bad for the metagame me thinks... but i dont care... i just wanna fill my trukks with snaggaz

i curious about cultures now.

Yeah I'm with you. I think a mechanized, Snagga bound force will be strong *and* fun to play.

Christ if bikes are t6, our trukks might be t7...

Big Mek Sparknutz wrote:
It feels like GW are constantly messing the most simple things up. They post an article that Investigate Sites, now Investigate Signals is fixed so that it can start with no enemy units in the center of the battlefield. Lo and behold, the new wording has the exact same issue that the action can't be started unless the center is clear of enemy units.

The enemy unit has to be wholly within 6" of the centre to prevent you starting the action, which is actually a big change, they can't just toe into 6" with one model and lock you down.

Yeah but they IMPLIED you can try to clear them in your turn, since it would only matter that they are gone by the end of your turn

Since the FW Warboss on Warbike is T7 and bikes almost always give +1 to Toughness, I expect the following :

Warboss : S6 T6
Nobz : S5 T5 2W (maybe 3)

I do not expect Nobz to be S6 simply because Warbosses are probably going to be S6 (based on the FW datasheet). Perhaps they will get an extra Wound though.

I don't think any of the nobz will be getting extra wounds.

It does seem like cybork might be returning as an invulnerable save.

An additional wound for nobz would be nice. But still, the ap on the choppa is really good news for them. Really hope my Deafskulls Nobz squads are still as viable add they are now with the new codex.

AP-1 choppas are already amazing. Boys can actually punch some stuff they couldn't.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
An additional wound for nobz would be nice. But still, the ap on the choppa is really good news for them. Really hope my Deafskulls Nobz squads are still as viable add they are now with the new codex.

If Nobz maintain price they could be pretty good, S5 T5 4+ and 5 ap-1 attacks for 17 points doesn't sound that bad.

Madjob wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
An additional wound for nobz would be nice. But still, the ap on the choppa is really good news for them. Really hope my Deafskulls Nobz squads are still as viable add they are now with the new codex.

If Nobz maintain price they could be pretty good, S5 T5 4+ and 5 ap-1 attacks for 17 points doesn't sound that bad.

Keep in mind, incubi are 16 points.

Nobs would have to shred harder at 17 ppm.

we'll have to see how they balance out the Nobz between snagga boys and Mega Nobs.

Hopefully they wont get stuck inbetween and be useless again this edition

Bigchoppas remaining ap1 is weird.
I almost dont see a reason to take them over Choppas now, because S7 AP1 2D isnt really all that better against infantry than S5 AP1 with an extra swing instead of 2D.

Especially since now theres 'Uge Choppas, which are AP3. Would have fit nicely to have bigchoppas AP2.

Beardedragon wrote:
we'll have to see how they balance out the Nobz between snagga boys and Mega Nobs.

Hopefully they wont get stuck inbetween and be useless again this edition

Nobz aren't useless at all at the moment. Take a Deafskulls squad of 2 PK or saws, 2x rokkit and fill out with dual choppa nobz. Add an ammo runt and put them in a transport. Some 250 points of general usefulness whatever is coming your way.