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What is great is that tougness 3 models like drukari (not all, a lot are toughness 4) will fold to bolter shots (so there is a reason to take some) but orks will endure a bit / a lot more (depending on +1 to wound strats and reroll strats but still a lot more) so there are incentives here for many different weapons.
TS with 2 wounds, and with their resistance to damage 1 weapons, will further push for diversity.

Things are looking rather good on that front, I think it is a healthy approach to the game to have a tougness 5 horde army. But will we be a horde army if boyz go up to 9 ppm ? Hmmm. I think we will lose green tide strat but stay at 8 ppm

I just hope it gets more people to embrace heavy flamers, they're like the perfect ork killer.

I can totally see green tide getting the axe. It's needed now, but it's insanely powerful. Being able to use it often marks the difference between winning an losing.

As I mentioned before did Black Cornucopia go for DE, so I wouldn´t expect it to stay. Resetting big units is hard to balance in an objective game. Just don´t.

It's also a bucket of CP and is pretty much auto use (if you can) if you take a big brick of boys.

Removing the option might give us more thought into stratagem planning / use.

tulun wrote:
It's also a bucket of CP and is pretty much auto use (if you can) if you take a big brick of boys.

Removing the option might give us more thought into stratagem planning / use.

I hope we get something to replace it tho, it’s my favorite strategem orks have.

Yeah, I really like GT. Maybe they'll include it, but to a lesser degree, like summoning the unit back at half strength or something.

Really looking forward to spamming 90-120 boyz at t5 though, even if they're 10 ppm. I haven't seen many armies that will be able to deal with a list like that.

On an unrelated note, do the Drukhari have any poison weapons? I don't have anyone in my meta who plays them? They might be able to deal with massed t5 pretty easy if they always wound on 4+.

I just like UGT because it just stops people from chipping 11 boyz each of your mobs to deny the +1 attack bonus. It's also sweet for making 500 point games like 600-700 point games .

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Yeah, I really like GT. Maybe they'll include it, but to a lesser degree, like summoning the unit back at half strength or something.

Really looking forward to spamming 90-120 boyz at t5 though, even if they're 10 ppm. I haven't seen many armies that will be able to deal with a list like that.

On an unrelated note, do the Drukhari have any poison weapons? I don't have anyone in my meta who plays them? They might be able to deal with massed t5 pretty easy if they always wound on 4+.

Yes-Dark Eldar small arms are Poison.

 addnid wrote:
What is great is that tougness 3 models like drukari (not all, a lot are toughness 4) will fold to bolter shots (so there is a reason to take some) but orks will endure a bit / a lot more (depending on +1 to wound strats and reroll strats but still a lot more) so there are incentives here for many different weapons.
TS with 2 wounds, and with their resistance to damage 1 weapons, will further push for diversity.

Things are looking rather good on that front, I think it is a healthy approach to the game to have a tougness 5 horde army. But will we be a horde army if boyz go up to 9 ppm ? Hmmm. I think we will lose green tide strat but stay at 8 ppm

As I noted in the N&R thread, I really think that what's interesting is that S3 loses no efficiency against T5, meaning boyz will take the same damage from lasguns and other equivalent weapons as their boltgun counterpart.

In other words, boyz would lose considerable efficiency against S3 weapons if they go up in points. A mere 2 point increase is after all a 25% increase in points per model. Meaning lasguns as well as poison would be 25% more efficient.

Also, despite people completely forgetting that the blast rule exists, it still does in fact exist.

 TedNugent wrote:

 addnid wrote:
What is great is that tougness 3 models like drukari (not all, a lot are toughness 4) will fold to bolter shots (so there is a reason to take some) but orks will endure a bit / a lot more (depending on +1 to wound strats and reroll strats but still a lot more) so there are incentives here for many different weapons.
TS with 2 wounds, and with their resistance to damage 1 weapons, will further push for diversity.

Things are looking rather good on that front, I think it is a healthy approach to the game to have a tougness 5 horde army. But will we be a horde army if boyz go up to 9 ppm ? Hmmm. I think we will lose green tide strat but stay at 8 ppm

As I noted in the N&R thread, I really think that what's interesting is that S3 loses no efficiency against T5, meaning boyz will take the same damage from lasguns and other equivalent weapons as their boltgun counterpart.

In other words, boyz would lose considerable efficiency against S3 weapons if they go up in points. A mere 2 point increase is after all a 25% increase in points per model. Meaning lasguns as well as poison would be 25% more efficient.

Also, despite people completely forgetting that the blast rule exists, it still does in fact exist.

yeah i don't think there will be a points change, i think the points change happened already, which explains the crazy gretchin points increase, i think Killa Kans will get a toughness boost aswell, i mean kans have a T5 now, the toughness of a boy, there is no way that can stay the same.

what might happen is "Green Tide: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit while it contains 20 or more models." ability could be axed.

I see us keeping that bonus, doesn't make sense why we'd lose it. I just want to see if meganobz get t6 or something, or if they're kept at boy toughness. I'd think nobz are tougher than boyz but who knows.

you mean the +1 attack rule that almost never goes off because if a full squad of 30 actually sees melee your opponent is an idiot or just ignored them for some reason?

i dont think ive ever, EVER gotten +1 attack from 20+ models in boy squads.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
you mean the +1 attack rule that almost never goes off because if a full squad of 30 actually sees melee your opponent is an idiot or just ignored them for some reason?

i dont think ive ever, EVER gotten +1 attack from 20+ models in boy squads.

What? I’ve never NOT gotten +1 attack from 20+ boyz in a game in which i’m playing 90+ boyz.

Grots could be worth 5 points if you got 2 grots for 5 points. obviously one grot isnt 5 points then, but since 5 points is the lowest count, i guess thats one way to do it.

Beardedragon wrote:
Grots could be worth 5 points if you got 2 grots for 5 points. obviously one grot isnt 5 points then, but since 5 points is the lowest count, i guess thats one way to do it.

Grots become toughness 3, war hammer community was quite clear on that. So 5 points, as other toughness 3 troops.

I can see myself playing 60 grots just to camp objectives, but they might get other uses who knows. Sadly I don’t think they will get the option to get a ball and chain strapped to them, then get sent by other grots whirling into the foe, high on shrooms. That ship has sailed :(

grots still need more than that. The other 5pt troops still have a longer ranged weapon.
Grots being T3 basically changes nothing. Yeah bolters dont wound them on 2s now...so? still shreds right through them at such a high rate they wont have enough left to do anything.
Also Grots (currently) are given specific rules to deny rules, other 5pt troopers are not (or only denied a specific one)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
grots still need more than that. The other 5pt troops still have a longer ranged weapon.
Grots being T3 basically changes nothing. Yeah bolters dont wound them on 2s now...so? still shreds right through them at such a high rate they wont have enough left to do anything.
Also Grots (currently) are given specific rules to deny rules, other 5pt troopers are not (or only denied a specific one)

Agreed. T3 is a good start, but they still need more utility to make them worth taking now that boyz are also comparatively much stronger, even as a 10 man squad.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
you mean the +1 attack rule that almost never goes off because if a full squad of 30 actually sees melee your opponent is an idiot or just ignored them for some reason?

i dont think ive ever, EVER gotten +1 attack from 20+ models in boy squads.

come on man, you can get off a turn 1 charge with da jump, i only bring 1 squad of 20 and either da jump or teleport, but most times i stick to squads of 10.
you can also use mob up strat to increase the size back to 20+.
but i never use that to be honest

the reason i think the +1 attack could be dropped is because its overkill and there are better was to increase boyz attacks, and the way combat range has shrunk means you struggle to get all the boyz into combat if there is 20+

Grots just need grot shield added to thier data sheet as an ability.
Along with 3toughness... they would have a place.

It’s a shame zodgrod super runt ability kinda sucks.

 Clang wrote:
I'm shocked that the Gretchin Revolutionary Front fans haven't been raving over the news that gretchin are gaining +1 Toughness
Of course, whether that actually makes them useful depends on points and other rules...

Wouldn't that just be the biggest slap in the face, they "buff" grots to T3 and go "oh, they need a price hike" and make them 6ppm

Here is a video from a very good DG tactics channel analyzing the effects of T5 orks on death guard weaponry. I'm honestly surprised about how much of a difference it makes.



Feel free to just jump to the numbers and ignore all the complaining about how orks are now as tough as DG

gungo wrote:
Grots just need grot shield added to thier data sheet as an ability.
Along with 3toughness... they would have a place.

It’s a shame zodgrod ability super runt ability kinda sucks.

This.

Then they'd be worth 5 points.

 Oguhmek wrote:

gungo wrote:
Grots just need grot shield added to thier data sheet as an ability.
Along with 3toughness... they would have a place.

It’s a shame zodgrod ability super runt ability kinda sucks.

This.

Then they'd be worth 5 points.

Also zodgrod should have given his grots the sniper ability. I mean they would still suck but at least we would have the option for a bunch of weak str 3, 12in range snipers.

Also the fact beast snagga have a built in 6+ invul kinda makes deathskulls clan a little less appealing but we will see how everything ends up.

Final thought I hope they don’t get rid of green tide strat I truly think it’s one of the main reasons ork boy spam is viable.

gungo wrote:
Final thought I hope they don’t get rid of green tide strat I truly think it’s one of the main reasons ork boy spam is viable.

I'd gladly trade boy spam for any other ork archetype being viable.

I'd like to field lists with a bit of everything to be honest, like drukhari ones. A fair number of infantries, including specialists, and some vehicles. I'd also love to field bikes again. With everything T5-8 I'm quite optimistic about that.

 kingbbobb wrote:

yeah i don't think there will be a points change, i think the points change happened already, which explains the crazy gretchin points increase, i think Killa Kans will get a toughness boost aswell, i mean kans have a T5 now, the toughness of a boy, there is no way that can stay the same.

what might happen is "Green Tide: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit while it contains 20 or more models." ability could be axed.

Gretchin point increase happened in 9e.

No other codex had point costs of units based on future codex. And orks weren't even first...

Expect point cost changes. Even earlier ones got changes between start of 9e and own codex.

a tiny rules question here.

If you use ramming speed, and that results in you being able to use Unstoppable momentum, does that mean your secondary charge afterwards, is also a ramming speed? or just a normal charge?

Beardedragon wrote:
a tiny rules question here.

If you use ramming speed, and that results in you being able to use Unstoppable momentum, does that mean your secondary charge afterwards, is also a ramming speed? or just a normal charge?

Ramming speed affects all charges you make in that phase.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
a tiny rules question here.

If you use ramming speed, and that results in you being able to use Unstoppable momentum, does that mean your secondary charge afterwards, is also a ramming speed? or just a normal charge?

Ramming speed affects all charges you make in that phase.

seriously? thats amazing i was 90% sure my next charge would not be a ramming speed charge.

This is a combo i never thought of before. I should try and combo that.

Thanks Jidmah.


Also for the grots discussion. I dont wanna have grots at T3 if it means paying more. for all i care they could be toughness 1 and id get 2 grots for 1s price as long as they are as cheap as possible. Of course if they remain 5 points at T3 and gets something else that may work. but even so, 1 grot for 5 points sucks regardless.