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2021/06/02 13:25:52
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
If you use ramming speed, and that results in you being able to use Unstoppable momentum, does that mean your secondary charge afterwards, is also a ramming speed? or just a normal charge?
Yesss, my favorite combo on Scrapjets. Up to 12 Mortal wounds. And if you combine it with 12” move via double pile in and double consolidation and get two opponent shooty dradnoughts / small knights / etc. in CC and disable 20% of his shooting, well…. they will love you! Let' s call it 10” move + 2x8” charge + 12” double fight = 38” move + you can advance and charge via warboss on bike / wartrike plus some inches in case of Evil Sunz. In total maximum could be up to 10 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 2x18+ 2x1 + 12 = 69” …. Holy feth!
This can allow you the first turn charge deep in enemy deploy - the elementary condition is, that your epponent is kind enough to use some scouts deployed in the midfield you can use like a slingshot and stupid enough to have no other screen.
I did exactly this againts some guy with bunch of shooty dreadnoughts and 2 scouts last week. Pretty rare situation however…
Actually, this is the only “combo” I see in our army. The rest is just “use a strategem to fight twice” kind of trick…
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, in real, it is little bit less, you need to slide around. I did some measuremts actually, and it is about 35” with double charge and about 27” with the single charge.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/02 15:05:32
If you use ramming speed, and that results in you being able to use Unstoppable momentum, does that mean your secondary charge afterwards, is also a ramming speed? or just a normal charge?
Yesss, my favorite combo on Scrapjets. Up to 12 Mortal wounds. And if you combine it with 12” move via double pile in and double consolidation and get two opponent shooty dradnoughts / small knights / etc. in CC and disable 20% of his shooting, well…. they will love you! Let' s call it 10” move + 2x8” charge + 12” double fight = 38” move + you can advance and charge via warboss on bike / wartrike plus some inches in case of Evil Sunz.
This can allow you the first turn charge deep in enemy deploy - the elementary condition is, that your epponent is kind enough to use some scouts deployed in the midfield you can use like a slingshot and stupid enough to have no other screen.
I did exactly this againts some guy with bunch of shooty dreadnoughts and 2 scouts last week. Pretty rare situation however…
Actually, this is the only “combo” I see in our army. The rest is just “use a strategem to fight twice” kind of trick…
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, in real, it is little bit less, you need to slide around. I did some measuremts actually, and it is about 35” with double charge and about 27” with the single charge.
I'm at a loss for words here...
You've sold me on buying models I don't like to look at! Where where you when I had money!
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.
2021/06/02 14:36:39
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Charging counts as a fight first mechanic, which means its no longer trumped by rules that allow a unit to "always fight first" and instead interweaves them, starting with the player who's turn it is.
So we can charge those annoying "fight first" units and still actually fight first, but they will immediately swing back before we can fight with a 2nd unit that charged that turn.
Big win as i always found it frustrating that those rules trumped charging entirely before.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2021/06/02 14:48:45
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Charging counts as a fight first mechanic, which means its no longer trumped by rules that allow a unit to "always fight first" and instead interweaves them, starting with the player who's turn it is.
So we can charge those annoying "fight first" units and still actually fight first, but they will immediately swing back before we can fight with a 2nd unit that charged that turn.
Big win as i always found it frustrating that those rules trumped charging entirely before.
Yess!
And Nobbikers lost again the double killsaw and kombiweapons. So I expect, the new codex bring it back in one month to make a tradition from this correction
If you use ramming speed, and that results in you being able to use Unstoppable momentum, does that mean your secondary charge afterwards, is also a ramming speed? or just a normal charge?
Yesss, my favorite combo on Scrapjets. Up to 12 Mortal wounds. And if you combine it with 12” move via double pile in and double consolidation and get two opponent shooty dradnoughts / small knights / etc. in CC and disable 20% of his shooting, well…. they will love you! Let' s call it 10” move + 2x8” charge + 12” double fight = 38” move + you can advance and charge via warboss on bike / wartrike plus some inches in case of Evil Sunz.
This can allow you the first turn charge deep in enemy deploy - the elementary condition is, that your epponent is kind enough to use some scouts deployed in the midfield you can use like a slingshot and stupid enough to have no other screen.
I did exactly this againts some guy with bunch of shooty dreadnoughts and 2 scouts last week. Pretty rare situation however…
Actually, this is the only “combo” I see in our army. The rest is just “use a strategem to fight twice” kind of trick…
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, in real, it is little bit less, you need to slide around. I did some measuremts actually, and it is about 35” with double charge and about 27” with the single charge.
i got cluster fethed by a Thousand sons army yesterday using a modified army of the one you send me some time ago. I normally win with my ghaz army here but he hard counters my buggy list with 72 and 42 range shooting + his teleporting terminators hiding behind stuff, teleports in and rips down like 4-5 buggies. Couple that with me having gone second the last 5 battles ive had, it didnt look good from the start. yikes. Anyway he blocked my movement with a chaos spawn which annoyed the hell out of me. I hadnt thought about doing this untill now because i didnt know ramming speed would still activate afterwards. Still though its a 4CP combo.
But a question to what you said, if you ramming speed a guy with a scrapjet, and he dies to a mix of the ramming speed MW and my own scrapjet MW, then you pile in, and consolidate, that gives you 6 inches of movement. but since he died already before you started hitting him, are you thus allowed to pile in and consolidate, as per their kustom job, even though he died already so early in to the fight?
Thats a lot of movement. thats 12 inches from consolidation and piling in alone.
Im assuming for the purpose of "grind them down", a single buggy counts as a unit right?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/02 15:07:56
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2021/06/02 15:06:24
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
What does GW have against power klaws these days. Not a single new model features a PK. Mega boss has a Choppa. Snagga boss git has some weird grabba claw on a stikk arm, leggy painboy has some weird not quite klaw, the trike git has a punch dagger, and the runtherd has a grabbing klaw on a stick.
Power klaws are objectively poop compared to the killsaw which for some reason passed into yet another CA at the exact same price as the klaw, so it makes little sense to use them on boys or nobs, and meganobs now have little reason to pick a klaw over dual saws.
With the mega boss is this the death knell for ye olde reliable powere klawe?
Very frustrating as klaw was clearly the quintessential ork gubbin for dicin and krushin gits.
Killsaw are just awful from a modeling standpoint.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2021/06/02 15:09:00
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
TedNugent wrote: What does GW have against power klaws these days. Not a single new model features a PK. Mega boss has a Choppa. Snagga boss git has some weird grabba claw on a stikk arm, leggy painboy has some weird not quite klaw, the trike git has a punch dagger, and the runtherd has a grabbing klaw on a stick.
Power klaws are objectively poop compared to the killsaw which for some reason passed into yet another CA at the exact same price as the klaw, so it makes little sense to use them on boys or nobs, and meganobs now have little reason to pick a klaw over dual saws.
With the mega boss is this the death knell for ye olde reliable powere klawe?
Very frustrating as klaw was clearly the quintessential ork gubbin for dicin and krushin gits.
Killsaw are just awful from a modeling standpoint.
I think gw just thinks power klaws are too refined or somethin maybe. I know for sure stat wise though that I’d take a klaw / kill saw over this ‘uge choppa garbage lol. Heavy thunder hammers from deathwatch vets are better.
"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos
2021/06/02 15:18:51
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
probably because the archtype that is a powerfist/klaw is concrete enough in their eyes to not change it, and they need to create other weapons to compensate.
Technically a PK is "stronger" than the Uge Choppa, as its Sx2 instead of S+3. But in practice the -1 to hit and presumably cost difference (still expecting PKs to cost like 2-3pts more for some reason) limit it so much that its actually worse.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2021/06/02 15:19:19
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
i got cluster fethed by a Thousand sons army yesterday using a modified army of the one you send me some time ago. I normally win with my ghaz army here but he hard counters my buggy list with 72 and 42 range shooting + his teleporting terminators hiding behind stuff, teleports in and rips down like 4-5 buggies. Couple that with me having gone second the last 5 battles ive had, it didnt look good from the start. yikes. Anyway he blocked my movement with a chaos spawn which annoyed the hell out of me. I hadnt thought about doing this untill now because i didnt know ramming speed would still activate afterwards. Still though its a 4CP combo.
But a question to what you said, if you ramming speed a guy with a scrapjet, and he dies to a mix of the ramming speed MW and my own scrapjet MW, then you pile in, and consolidate, that gives you 6 inches of movement. but since he died already before you started hitting him, are you thus allowed to pile in and consolidate, as per their kustom job, even though he died already so early in to the fight?
Thats a lot of movement. thats 12 inches from consolidation and piling in alone.
Im assuming for the purpose of "grind them down", a single buggy counts as a unit right?
Ramming Speed and Unstop. Momentum are activated in Charge phase. Not in the Fight phase. So you charge, deal MWs, kill a unit, charge again and deal MWs again. After that comes the fight. So Pile in, fight, consolidate, pile, fight, consolidate. And yes, it' s 4CP, which is a lot.
Yeah, I was clusterfucked similar way. The weak spot of the buggy list is the combination of huge base, dense terrain and low range. Your move can be blocked. It' s hard to counter againts experienced player. You can do something with the wide deploy going more routes and screen. Put the KBB and wagons etc in front and keep Scrapjets in the middle but covered well. But this is not always helpfull. I do some experiments with Scrapjets in Telyport, which guarantee you some charges and keeps them safe. But then you face the troubles with the screening and hell - you spend another 2CP for Telyport.
I found essential to play a heavy chess game againts Mortarion / other large cc and fast /teleporting armies to screen them. Most of them has a large bases so well positioned buggies, grots and other stuff can make them chewing something less important.
I' ve found KBB very much a screening buggy. Fast, cheapest and helps me keep Morty 12” away from my Dragstas and Scrapjets that can shoot at him. This could be similar with telyporting termies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/02 15:25:19
i got cluster fethed by a Thousand sons army yesterday using a modified army of the one you send me some time ago. I normally win with my ghaz army here but he hard counters my buggy list with 72 and 42 range shooting + his teleporting terminators hiding behind stuff, teleports in and rips down like 4-5 buggies. Couple that with me having gone second the last 5 battles ive had, it didnt look good from the start. yikes. Anyway he blocked my movement with a chaos spawn which annoyed the hell out of me. I hadnt thought about doing this untill now because i didnt know ramming speed would still activate afterwards. Still though its a 4CP combo.
But a question to what you said, if you ramming speed a guy with a scrapjet, and he dies to a mix of the ramming speed MW and my own scrapjet MW, then you pile in, and consolidate, that gives you 6 inches of movement. but since he died already before you started hitting him, are you thus allowed to pile in and consolidate, as per their kustom job, even though he died already so early in to the fight?
Thats a lot of movement. thats 12 inches from consolidation and piling in alone.
Im assuming for the purpose of "grind them down", a single buggy counts as a unit right?
Ramming Speed and Unstop. Momentum are activated in Charge phase. Not in the Fight phase. So you charge, deal MWs, kill a unit, charge again and deal MWs again. After that comes the fight. So Pile in, fight, consolidate, pile, fight, consolidate. And yes, it' s 4CP, which is a lot.
Yeah, I was clusterfucked similar way. The weak spot of the buggy list is the combination of huge base, dense terrain and low range. Your move can be blocked. It' s hard to counter againts experienced player. You can do something with the wide deploy going more routes and screen. Put the KBB and wagons etc in front and keep Scrapjets in the middle but covered well. But this is not always helpfull. I do some experiments with Scrapjets in Telyport, which guarantee you some charges and keeps them safe. But then you face the troubles with the screening and hell - you spend another 2CP for Telyport.
Yea.. i need to experiment a lot more with Da tellyporta. Maybe scrapjets in deepstrike isnt too bad.
On the other hand, i think ill change out the ZagZap kustom job gunwagon. The total of 6 damage isnt that great i feel, and it would be better for me to just slam a gunwagon down with da boomer, or at yet another Kannon wagon. 170ish points for something that has 2 shots that auto hits and deal max 6 damage hasnt really paid off a lot for me. Sure it can snipe things with low hp in cover and all, but still.
But really that Thousand sons army my friend has is so mean to my buggies. teleporting terminators that always sit some place i cant see turn 1, fires 80 str 5 shots at me, hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s, +1 to wound so he still wounds on 4s despite using str 5 weapons. And then the 3 defilers shooting basically as hard or harder than my own scrapjets really tear me down quickly. Maybe if Mork actually allowed me to go turn 1 (which i havent the last 5 games) it would help but apparently not
You guys werent lying when you said some armies really hard counter buggy lists.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/02 15:29:02
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2021/06/02 15:28:07
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Yea.. i need to experiment a lot more with Da tellyporta. Maybe scrapjets in deepstrike isnt too bad.
On the other hand, i think ill change out the ZagZap kustom job gunwagon. The total of 6 damage isnt that great i feel, and it would be better for me to just slam a gunwagon down with da boomer, or at yet another Kannon wagon. 170ish points for something that has 2 shots that auto hits and deal max 6 damage hasnt really paid off a lot for me. Sure it can snipe things with low hp in cover and all, but still.
Yeah, I'm playing with zagzap -> Kannonwagon too. But I miss the transport capacity and the opening ability of MW.
Scrapjets in deepstrike are… I don' t know. Contradicting results, hard to see before the game, wheather will it work or not.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/02 15:35:08
Yea.. i need to experiment a lot more with Da tellyporta. Maybe scrapjets in deepstrike isnt too bad.
On the other hand, i think ill change out the ZagZap kustom job gunwagon. The total of 6 damage isnt that great i feel, and it would be better for me to just slam a gunwagon down with da boomer, or at yet another Kannon wagon. 170ish points for something that has 2 shots that auto hits and deal max 6 damage hasnt really paid off a lot for me. Sure it can snipe things with low hp in cover and all, but still.
Yeah, I'm playing with zagzap -> Kannonwagon too.
Scrapjets in deepstrike are… I don' t know. Contradicting results, hard to see before the game, wheather will it work or not.
I feel like their big base size is a big problem, even if you can set them up 6" away from each other, a lot of the ideal areas for them to land will usually be crowded and restricted by both your own and enemy units. And then ramming speed will only apply to one of them, so chances are you'll only get 2 of them into melee the turn they tellyport down assuming you roll well. I always find myself wishing I could take squig hyde tyres with korkscrew.
2021/06/02 15:36:13
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Tomsug wrote: I feel like their big base size is a big problem, even if you can set them up 6" away from each other, a lot of the ideal areas for them to land will usually be crowded and restricted by both your own and enemy units. And then ramming speed will only apply to one of them, so chances are you'll only get 2 of them into melee the turn they tellyport down assuming you roll well. I always find myself wishing I could take squig hyde tyres with korkscrew.
Yea.. i need to experiment a lot more with Da tellyporta. Maybe scrapjets in deepstrike isnt too bad.
On the other hand, i think ill change out the ZagZap kustom job gunwagon. The total of 6 damage isnt that great i feel, and it would be better for me to just slam a gunwagon down with da boomer, or at yet another Kannon wagon. 170ish points for something that has 2 shots that auto hits and deal max 6 damage hasnt really paid off a lot for me. Sure it can snipe things with low hp in cover and all, but still.
Yeah, I'm playing with zagzap -> Kannonwagon too.
Scrapjets in deepstrike are… I don' t know. Contradicting results, hard to see before the game, wheather will it work or not.
you guys really hyped up the zapzag weapon profile on gunwagons but i really gotta say, they havent done me much.
Ive never played bad moon because i know they are generally inferior to death skulls. I mean technically anything is inferior to deathskulls but i went ahead and made a list i want to try against other people. I feel like its decent enough to do alot of carnage.
Spoiler:
Bad Moon clan fokus 1 extra gubbinz
Big mek with KFF Warboss, attack squig, Da Gobshot Blunderbuss, Kombi-weapon with scorcha, powerklaw Warboss on warbike, warlord, brutal but kunnin, Da biggest boss, Da killa Klaw
10x boys with shoota, 1 nob with powerklaw 9x boys with shoota, 1 nob with powerklaw 10x grots
5x Kommandos 5x Kommandos 4x Mega Nobz with killsaws 15x tankbustas, 6x Bomb squigs
Battlewagon with ard case, Deff Rolla, Forktress Gunwagon, Killkannon, da boomer, 4x bigs shootas Kannonwagon, 3x big shootas
Dakkajet, 6x supa shoota Dakkajet, 6x supa shoota
Trukk
What i intended to try with this list is to have 11 boys and warboss with 3xD6 flamer shots in the trukk. Manz + Grots in the Battlewagon. Whether i split push with truks on one side and BW on the other i dunno, maybe ill go both units on one side. That way my warboss can advance the MANZ if the BW dies. Or maybe the warboss should simply be placed inside the battlewagon, im not fully sure. If hes inside the BW maybe it shouldnt be ard' cased, because he cant fire out then. Anyway the Warboss on warbike advances the battlewagon and helps it out.
Supa shoota dakkajets shoots what ever it wanna shoot, same for kannon wagon and gunwagon. The Kommandos stays in deepstrike as does the Tankbustas. The tankbustas will come in where they can do most havoc, and uses 4CP, 2 for more dakka, 2 for showing off. Hopefully they can deal with enough enemy heavy vehicles that the rest of my shooting can take care of the rest.
What do you guys think? while i know its a bad moon army and we can have better, what do you think about the setup otherwise? Ive tried to capitalize on lots of shooting units to benefit that reroll of 1s in the shooting. Im unsure about what the kannonwagon should be replaced with if i wanted to do that, because that benefits mostly from deathskulls. But maybe its fine to keep.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/02 15:43:09
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2021/06/02 15:41:26
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Beardragon - I found myself once even telyporting all Dragstas and charge them to some Eldars in T1 just to stop them shooting and get some time to get the CC army to them in T2. Which was pretty stupid, but with better positioning and better rolls can maybe in rare situations works.. maybe…
Tomsug wrote: Beardragon - I found myself once even telyporting all Dragstas and charge them to some Eldars in T1 just to stop them shooting and get some time to get the CC army to them in T2. Which was pretty stupid, but with better positioning and better rolls can maybe in rare situations works.. maybe…
you know what? im gonna fething do it in my next battle, if i know my enemy has decent shooting at long range. ill deepstrike those MFs just to test out the waters.
But one thing i REALLY hope they do with the codex is putting deff dreads in the elite slot. I believe most if not all dreadnoughts are elite slots, why shouldnt deffdreads be? They are not large and impactful enough to take up a heavy support slot. i feel like the heavy support slot is our most crowded area where as the elite slot tends to be a barren desert.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/02 15:50:12
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2021/06/02 15:54:34
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
That and I want deff dreads (and maybe kans) to have -1 damage on em. Additional hopes are a permanent -1 to hit on warbikers without strats and just like d3+1 power klaws.
"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos
2021/06/02 19:30:35
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Some dude 4th on Rock\ Top Rumble with combination of Ghazz, SMG spam and deatskull buggy list pimped up with Mega Dread. And the list makes totally sence.
I like it. Let it be the answer to the “why not a Ghazzy in Deathskull buggy list” question.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: That and I want deff dreads (and maybe kans) to have -1 damage on em. Additional hopes are a permanent -1 to hit on warbikers without strats and just like d3+1 power klaws.
I'd settle for ramshackle on all our vehicles, with maybe upping the ramshackle roll to a 5+ for some of our bigger stuff like Stompas and Gork/Morkanauts.
If the warbikers get T6 AND -1 to hit? That'd be rad, but I can't imagine GW pricing them well with those buffs.
2021/06/02 22:41:25
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Let' s call it 10” move + 2x8” charge + 12” double fight = 38” move + you can advance and charge via warboss on bike / wartrike plus some inches in case of Evil Sunz. In total maximum could be up to 10 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 2x18+ 2x1 + 12 = 69” …. Holy feth!
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
