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 Vineheart01 wrote:
it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.
i.e. inside a trukk, wagon, rig, etc.

You dont refer to crew as "in" a vehicle, theyre the vehicle.

Take out "ork vehicle" and you'll realize that makes no sense.

"Each time a model in an orks biker unit from your army makes a ranged attacj, improve the armour penetration characteristic of that attack by 1."

An ork biker model is IN an ork biker unit.

An ork vehicle model is IN an ork vehicle unit.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.

Except every instance of referring to a collective unit (even when it's a unit of 1 model) instead of individual models in the entire ruleset? You are not reading the whole sentence and seeing that it is referring to vehicle and biker units (and all models contained in them).

ah, i see it now.
Yeah, thats dumb. Thats really dumb.

They clearly want us to use vehicles, bikers, walkers, and buggies for our dakka.

1) speedwaagh only effects these units
2) They have no way of getting advance and charge unless they are core (that we know of)
3) rokkits to heavy

Shooting infantry are looking to be a thing of the past. Walkers IMO are looking very strong. The new KMB profile is going to look nasty on a CORE deff dread.

BDBurrow wrote:
They clearly want us to use vehicles, bikers, walkers, and buggies for our dakka.

1) speedwaagh only effects these units
2) They have no way of getting advance and charge unless they are core (that we know of)
3) rokkits to heavy

Shooting infantry are looking to be a thing of the past.

The "that we know of" part is key. As has been said numerous times already - we're looking at small pieces of a larger puzzle but making the larger conclusion of what the puzzle is with our couple little pieces. They could easily add a special rule to say, tankbustas, that they can move and fire with no penalty. They could easily add a SR to all buggies to make them treat HW's as assault. There's a whole list of stuff. The speculating is fun but kind of pointless until we can see the whole picture.

But... it's human nature to react, and usually chicken-little it. Specially in 40k.

"Even the humble Boyz get a considerable boost, with big shootaz moving from a perfectly decent Assault 3 to Dakka 5/3, and regular shootaz switching from Assault 2 to Dakka 3/2, making them significantly more lethal at close range. "

Still got no AP GW, so ... no, not really.

Rokkit launchas are heavy but maybe tankbustas will get a rule to ignore penalties, yeah, although two special rules for the shooting phase (second one is re-rolls against vehicles) sounds a bit unlikely. Even a 1CP stratagem to do that could work, they typically fire once most of the times anyway.

Before complaining let's wait for the whole picture. In the meantime 30 shots from the main Gorkanaut's gun without burning a CP for a kustom job look nice .

Big shootas with 5 shots and AP-1 in the waaagh turn also look nice, assuming they'll still cost 5 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
"Even the humble Boyz get a considerable boost, with big shootaz moving from a perfectly decent Assault 3 to Dakka 5/3, and regular shootaz switching from Assault 2 to Dakka 3/2, making them significantly more lethal at close range. "

Still got no AP GW, so ... no, not really.

We get it in the waaagh turn. Outside shootas, which shouldn't get an AP since a blob of boyz can fire 90 shots now, all our dakka weapons are mounted on bikes and vehicles.

I am dubious shoota boys are the best thing to throw into a trukk, but I guess we'll see.

And I wager the better of the two is the Waaaagh. Even in a more mounted list, you'll probably want your bikers / calvary advancing and charging at least once, and get bonus attacks in their smaller squad sizes.

true the fact they called the big shootas perfectly decent just shows how little they really know of the ork faction.

 Blackie wrote:
Rokkit launchas are heavy but maybe tankbustas will get a rule to ignore penalties, yeah, although two special rules for the shooting phase (second one is re-rolls against vehicles) sounds a bit unlikely. Even a 1CP stratagem to do that could work, they typically fire once most of the times anyway.

Before complaining let's wait for the whole picture. In the meantime 30 shots from the main Gorkanaut's gun without burning a CP for a kustom job look nice .

Big shootas with 5 shots and AP-1 in the waaagh turn also look nice, assuming they'll still cost 5 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
"Even the humble Boyz get a considerable boost, with big shootaz moving from a perfectly decent Assault 3 to Dakka 5/3, and regular shootaz switching from Assault 2 to Dakka 3/2, making them significantly more lethal at close range. "

Still got no AP GW, so ... no, not really.

We get it in the waaagh turn. Outside shootas, which shouldn't get an AP since a blob of boyz can fire 90 shots now, all our dakka weapons are mounted on bikes and vehicles.

A Gork puts out at 18 inches, 50 shots anti infantry shots base, 2d3 rokkit shots and even at ork shooting, thats an impressive salvo. On a SpeedWaaagh Turn, which I'm under the impression adds 1 shot to each dakka weapon (5 extra shots) the extra AP above all will massively increase the Gorks ability to rip apart infantry.

In addition, if Killa Kanz stay at the same price for Rokkit Kanz, they'll effectively double their shooting output on average and against 6 man elite units, they'll triple it. Deff Dreads with KMBs provided Bad Moonz stays as reroll 1s will be noticeably better at throwing out heavily damaging shots.

Not if you cant shoot dakka weapons when you advance.
Unless its a pure melee unit you really dont want to sacrifice that shooting.

Bikers are probably going to Dakka 5/3 for Dakkaguns, thats 10 shots per bike if they are within 9 that you arent getting if they advanced.

Even at AP0, that much dakka is gonna be hard to pass up so i can move D6 more inches to charge.

I hope so much that Gw lets boys mobs have more than 1 special weapon per 10 models wit the new kit and new data sheet. Please let me field 6 big shootas in a mob of 30!

For the tank bustas I guess I am still expecting that reroll to hit vehicles to be a thing. No idea if that make them very worth it, needing 6's to hit I guess. Wonder if they will get a +1 to hit when shooting at vehicles.

tulun wrote:
I am dubious shoota boys are the best thing to throw into a trukk, but I guess we'll see.

And I wager the better of the two is the Waaaagh. Even in a more mounted list, you'll probably want your bikers / calvary advancing and charging at least once, and get bonus attacks in their smaller squad sizes.

I'm already drooling at a mixed forces goffs list.

Ghaz
weirdboy
big mek
2x30 slugga/choppa boyz
10 gretchin
2x6 warbikers
3 deff dreads
gorkanaut
mek guns
painboy (or maybe painboss?)

So I’ve been a lurker on the forum for a long while, but had to join in on the speculation.

The article says: “ In battle this typically means that if you roll a 6 to hit, you get to shoot again, granting you a fair few extra shots when the boyz have their eye in.”

So we may still have DDD in addition to Dakka guns. So I speculate that DDD is more shots on 6s and ability to assault and shoot with dakka guns.

Not a fan of losing assault across the board. Hopefully evil sunz will treat it like assault at the very least.

Same time, 30 shoota boys shooting 150 shots is pretty funny. Especially since there's no AP I'm sure w.e they lit up will still live.

Hoofy wrote:
So I’ve been a lurker on the forum for a long while, but had to join in on the speculation.

The article says: “ In battle this typically means that if you roll a 6 to hit, you get to shoot again, granting you a fair few extra shots when the boyz have their eye in.”

So we may still have DDD in addition to Dakka guns. So I speculate that DDD is more shots on 6s and ability to assault and shoot with dakka guns.

They were describing the old dakka.

"It’s a system we all love, but what if it was even better? That’s right. Dakka is no longer an ability, it’s an entirely new weapon type! "

Same time, 30 shoota boys shooting 150 shots is pretty funny.

Shootas are dakka 3/2, so 90 shots.

Hoofy wrote:
So I’ve been a lurker on the forum for a long while, but had to join in on the speculation.

The article says: “ In battle this typically means that if you roll a 6 to hit, you get to shoot again, granting you a fair few extra shots when the boyz have their eye in.”

So we may still have DDD in addition to Dakka guns. So I speculate that DDD is more shots on 6s and ability to assault and shoot with dakka guns.

They later state it was removed as an ability in exchange for the new weapon type.

Coming off the Sisters codex, GW was pretty rude in some of their updates. There were a lot of old combos/units that they broke, seemingly just because they were a cool thing before and they felt the need to change something. A lot of units lost abilities that made them stand out, a lot of general army rules got shifted, etc, etc.

But having had the chance to study the codex in full now, what they really did is force you to build your army towards specific effects. Want a melee-heavy army? Then here are the stratagems, leader buffs, and relics you really need to make that work. Tanky? You want this order with these rites. Shooty? You're gonna want to run this type of list.

It was incredibly disappointing to see the leaks, see the leaks proved correct, look at all my old lists and realize they didn't work anymore.

But once I started building new lists, I realized I could do - essentially - everything I had done before, and more. It just took some more planning, more thought, more positioning. I had to find the right synergies, and (for the most part) they were there once I started looking.

So, here's hoping the same is true for Orks. It might look pretty rude to start with, but I'm betting there will be plenty of ways to make lists work.

Hmm, I have a bad feeling the Killa Kanz are gonna go the way of “what’s in the kit is what you can build.” And I’m pretty sure Kanz come with 1 of each heavy weapon. So expect Kanz to get 1 rocket launcher for every 3, unless I’m wrong about what’s in the kit.

Assuming Dakka guns are 5/3 like big shootas

They could get 12 shots each at Str 5 AP-1 D1 when you call a Speedwaaagh.

I bet they are compatible with advance and shoot (just a hunch, not confirmed by leaks), so bikers can more easily get within that 9".

That's actually legitimately interesting. Nob bikers especially at +3 ppm over the warbiker would actually be a *very* solid unit.

Madjob wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.

Except every instance of referring to a collective unit (even when it's a unit of 1 model) instead of individual models in the entire ruleset? You are not reading the whole sentence and seeing that it is referring to vehicle and biker units (and all models contained in them).

I am not native english speaker, but is it possible that the "unit" refers only to the bikers, and not to vehicles ?
Also the more I compare the wordings in the first ability (+ 1 shot on Dakka) and the second ability (Ap-1), the more I feel like it's really including the transported troops. Why would they add "in" for the second ability ?
Anyway, the rule is quite unclear and we will certainly need a errata or FAQ to clarify that.

Now, I don't want to be that guy that says the sky is falling, but so far I hate every single rule they've previewed.

Look at how they massacred my Boyz.

Whatever your list is today, it probably won't be as good anymore, period. That's the way it is with new codices.
We just need to find what is the next OP/killy/fun combination in the new codex so that we can spam it !

Example of a stupid idea: unit of 3 x deffdreads (1 klaw 3 bigshoota each). At speedwaahg turn , i'll get them close somehow (advance, orkmatic piston, tellyporta, whatever...) within 18", and they will dish out 54 shots str5 ap-1. If I can increase the accuracy ( stratagem, sparkly bits, etc...), that would be a nice trick hahaha .

Damn - my bad. My brain injected a “just” when reading. So I read it as “Dakka is no longer just an ability,”. Well there goes that speculation, lol. Back to lurking

assuming prices dont screw with us (like now that KMB is D3 shots it goes to 15pts instead of 10 because GW logic) a quad-KMB deffdread feels really hilarious now...

I think the issue with the previews is that they're always written from a pure hype perspective, as if there are no trade offs. They should combine them with some more competitive style articles that drill into why things change, however it's still super rare for them to be open about the rule writing process

Yeah the WHC articles are advertisements and have to be approached as such.

Yeah. Like when they tell you how awesome it is that they took away your features and doubled your points! You can field less models now and your rules are simpler!

Looks like mech guns might have lost their mech guns deployment ability as s separate units.
The bubble chukka has the wording-

" ....if a unit contains more than 1 bubble chukka....."

it COULD also be referring to the Hunta Rig, it might be able to have multiple bubblechukkas (really the only thing thats being released that could)