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Rumour is that buggies and mek guns no longer split, so that language would support this change.

 kingbbobb wrote:
Looks like mech guns might have lost their mech guns deployment ability as s separate units.
The bubble chukka has the wording-

" ....if a unit contains more than 1 bubble chukka....."

Was there any scenario in which the separate unit thing was relevant? I don't suppose people moved their mek gunz after deployment around much anyway...

Otherwise I can see how this is quite bad considering that you now need to use more heavy slots if you want to place your mek gunz around the battlefield in strategic locations or suffer the max 2" distance between your gunz

Even without "all the puzzle pieces" I can't imagine a scenario which makes reduced battlefield coverage in terms of area better. Maybe it can be offset by something else but bunched up mek gunz doesnt sound appealing to me.

tulun wrote:
Rumour is that buggies and mek guns no longer split, so that language would support this change.

Buggies not splitting would be very weird. On the one hand it makes it so 1 unit of scrapjets don't all individually need access to a target to effectively engage them in CC, but then it makes the parking lot problem even more pronounced for movement. It also makes snazzwagons really weird with regards to their teleport ability, you'd never have enough to space to deep strike 2-3 of them.

Maybe Mek Gunz will ignore line of sight and act more like little artillery pieces. Would probably make them way too good though so probs not.

 Grimskul wrote:

tulun wrote:
Rumour is that buggies and mek guns no longer split, so that language would support this change.

Buggies not splitting would be very weird. On the one hand it makes it so 1 unit of scrapjets don't all individually need access to a target to effectively engage them in CC, but then it makes the parking lot problem even more pronounced for movement. It also makes snazzwagons really weird with regards to their teleport ability, you'd never have enough to space to deep strike 2-3 of them.

If true it really screws over buggies, yeah, in so many ways.

Hard to hide them, they have super bad leadership (6), enemy gains tons of efficiencies shooting them (as MSU is way worse to deal with than units of 2 or 3). Mob rule is also apparently gone.

Maybe there will be some good strats, or maybe the squig buggy will get indirect or something. FA slots are looking to be even more primo now though, so this kills buggy style lists without some kind of buffs in other ways.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
assuming prices dont screw with us (like now that KMB is D3 shots it goes to 15pts instead of 10 because GW logic) a quad-KMB deffdread feels really hilarious now...

Points matter but I feel like rokkits are better dread weapons unless you can get rerolling 1s because ~8 KMB is going to kill my dread/kan mighty quick. Extra shots are great if they actually hit and ideally not us!

All these ork previews feel like there is a bigger picture we are all missing Because these changes should be better but as previewed they look like overall nerfs. I’m just hoping there are a bunch more bespoke rules that haven’t been previewed that fixes a lot of the holes that appear from these previewed changes.

pepi55 wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
Looks like mech guns might have lost their mech guns deployment ability as s separate units.
The bubble chukka has the wording-

" ....if a unit contains more than 1 bubble chukka....."

Was there any scenario in which the separate unit thing was relevant? I don't suppose people moved their mek gunz after deployment around much anyway...

Otherwise I can see how this is quite bad considering that you now need to use more heavy slots if you want to place your mek gunz around the battlefield in strategic locations or suffer the max 2" distance between your gunz

Even without "all the puzzle pieces" I can't imagine a scenario which makes reduced battlefield coverage in terms of area better. Maybe it can be offset by something else but bunched up mek gunz doesnt sound appealing to me.

well yes, if they are in a unit non can shoot if just 1 model is in close combat.

seperate they have to be engaged by multiple attackers.

same for opposing debuffs stratagems, psychic abilities.
now all 6 smasha guns in a unit for example will get -1 to hit instead of 1 model from that enemy stratagem.

Emphasis mine, but it looks like exploding 6s to hit is gone?

Speculatiin, speculations. Without the whole context, juat speculations.

All I see is more dakka. That ´ a good.

I'm hoping that's the usual WHC snafu.

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm hoping that's the usual WFC snafu.

Unless it was changed to exploding hits, I could see them cutting it. Honestly, it just slows down the game with BS5+ models, and they seemed to want to overprice Orks assuming they got max shots on their random weapons *and* that it could spike via DDD.

You need 18 shots to just get 1 extra hit on average. It really only shone on stuff that got full re-rolls, or hit on better BS.

Yeah, I'm hoping they shift to exploding hits, I'm definitely a fan of not rerolling extra hits that usually is just a time-waster, but it'd kind of suck if we lost DDD! as a thematic rule.

So for starters I really want to drive home the point that just like everyone else I don't have all the new rules and this is just my opinion based upon the currently released rules, and as such, with it being new, I will likely change my opinion over time as I get more information and anything I have incorrect is corrected by you wonderful lot.


Overall First Impression: Fething Terrible. This is a nerf to Ork shooting almost across the board.

Starting off with Shootas: Losing Exploding 6s means Shootas are at 10-18' range WORSE than before. Once you get into 9' range you really don't want to be shooting much unless their is a 2nd unit nearby, otherwise they can remove 1-2 models and add 2-3' to the charge range. Furthermore, at 9' range it still takes a grand total of 12 Ork boyz shooting to kill a single Space Marine. Assuming we don't get a price hike that is ridiculous. 96pts of "buffed" shooting to kill a single fething Marine is pathetic. I'm leaving off Advance/shoot because I just can't imagine GW would Feth us that much. The New Dakka type must allow shooting after advancing, hopefully at full Ballistic skill.

Big Shootas: Straight up still worthless. If they become "free" than I can see them being taken if for no other reason than for S&G tactics. Being in 18' range for a big shoota is entirely doable. But 5 shots is still kinda meh at best and with no upgrades like the damn Heavy Bolter got....christ. Just so you understand, to kill 1 Space Marine with Big shootas, ALL within 18' range you need a grand total of 27 shots, so between 5 and 6 Big Shootas. Assuming you get them all on boyz that is 40-45pts of boyz and 25-30pts of Big shootas. All to kill 18pts of Marine. Now, if big shootas are free, that is way better, but still not great because again, you need all of those guns in 18' range. Would it have been too much to ask for -1AP? Would that have broken the game?

KMB: Sounds good at first, quad KMB Deffdreads just doubled their shots on average! WOO!! Problem being, they are now Blast which means when the dread or anything for that matter (Morkanaut) gets stuck in CC it can't be fired... Overall, not nearly as bad as shootas nerf but still not great. Just making it Assault D3 would have been fine, we didn't want or need blast on our weapons systems that enjoy being in CC.

The big one. Rokkitz: Mork help me. I have to show the numbers so people grasp how crap this really is. Assault 1 Rokkit meant on average you had a 38.8% chance to hit, if you advanced it went to 19.4% chance to hit. Based on the 24' range you will need to move at least turn 1, and likely turns 2-3 as well. With 1/2/3 shots this is how the math works out.

1 shot: 16.7% chance to hit
2 Shots: 33.3% chance to hit
3 shots: 50% chance to hit.
If you advance...0% chance to hit.

So on average you are getting 2 shots, which since you will likely be moving means you are now LESS likely to hit your target, the only time this isn't true is if you roll a 5 or 6 and get 3 shots which gives you a 11.2% extra chance to hit. IF you roll a 1-2, congrats you just lost 22.1% chance to hit. And the coup de grâce, Rokkitz are now Blast as well. I don't know about you guys, but the vehicles i have that also have Rokkitz, i generally want in CC. Scrapjets, Morkanautz, Kanz...I want all of those in CC at some point and that means my Rokkitz just got nerfed on those units as well.

Mek Gun rules: Bubble chukka is better, hands down its just better. D6 shots, with D6 strength and D6 AP sounds good but it averaged 3-4 shots, at S3-4 and AP-3/4. not really worth much. But the real problem is the wording of the rules. "If the unit contains more than 1 bubblechukka" Reasonably sure this means we will no longer be dividing our mek gunz up after placing them :( I can tell you as a fact that this is a HUGE nerf. I can't tell you how many times i've had opponents choose other targets for their weapons because they didn't want to overkill 1 Mek gun.

Honestly, I am slightly worried about our hopes of having useful shooting right now. Unless we have a lot of other rules interaction that we aren't seeing yet, it looks like GW just told orkz to feth off with shooting entirely.

I'm also skeptical about these rules changes. So much so that I've decided against the snagga box and will wait for the standalone codex release.

I think this probably an issue of poor framing and marketing.

Like the main stuff that has been unequivocally better has been the toughness and choppa changes (which are good). Even with the rumoured 9 ppm boys, this is a good change.

When you saw stuff like the incubi changes for DE, it was like "this is obviously better".

A lot of these teases leave a ton of questions, which is disappointing.

None of the 9th codexes so far have been truly bad, but I think it would have almost been better if they had left things in the dark than reveal a bunch of this stuff without full context.

pretty much the only reason i havnt rescinded my order at my flgs is my local groups are not that good. none of them are very good at playing the objective or finding niche "kill teams" in their armies of 2-3 units that are awesome together and can go off and do their own thing.

As a result i tend to stomp them even when im joking around. i've always been at the cusp of a pro-player in any game i play, tabletop or otherwise, but not quite good enough to actually compete (nor the interest)

I literally cant play admech right now, ive packed them away neatly. Im hoping the ork codex is good enough where i can at least play and have fun with these jokers in my area and not get stomped as hard as my admech/crons were stomping them lol.
Its fun to not play a truly min/max'd list to a degree. Long as it isnt a repeat of 7th edition level of bad i'll probably still have fun in my area (7th was so bad even the guy that routinely didnt remember half his rules would cripple me lol)

On a positive note; grot mobs rokkit kans are hitting on 3s, reroll 1s, d3 blast shots.

I wonder what the kopta rokkits profile will be?

SemperMortis wrote:
So for starters I really want to drive home the point that just like everyone else I don't have all the new rules and this is just my opinion based upon the currently released rules, and as such, with it being new, I will likely change my opinion over time as I get more information and anything I have incorrect is corrected by you wonderful lot.


Overall First Impression: Fething Terrible. This is a nerf to Ork shooting almost across the board.

Starting off with Shootas: Losing Exploding 6s means Shootas are at 10-18' range WORSE than before. Once you get into 9' range you really don't want to be shooting much unless their is a 2nd unit nearby, otherwise they can remove 1-2 models and add 2-3' to the charge range. Furthermore, at 9' range it still takes a grand total of 12 Ork boyz shooting to kill a single Space Marine. Assuming we don't get a price hike that is ridiculous. 96pts of "buffed" shooting to kill a single fething Marine is pathetic. I'm leaving off Advance/shoot because I just can't imagine GW would Feth us that much. The New Dakka type must allow shooting after advancing, hopefully at full Ballistic skill.

Big Shootas: Straight up still worthless. If they become "free" than I can see them being taken if for no other reason than for S&G tactics. Being in 18' range for a big shoota is entirely doable. But 5 shots is still kinda meh at best and with no upgrades like the damn Heavy Bolter got....christ. Just so you understand, to kill 1 Space Marine with Big shootas, ALL within 18' range you need a grand total of 27 shots, so between 5 and 6 Big Shootas. Assuming you get them all on boyz that is 40-45pts of boyz and 25-30pts of Big shootas. All to kill 18pts of Marine. Now, if big shootas are free, that is way better, but still not great because again, you need all of those guns in 18' range. Would it have been too much to ask for -1AP? Would that have broken the game?

KMB: Sounds good at first, quad KMB Deffdreads just doubled their shots on average! WOO!! Problem being, they are now Blast which means when the dread or anything for that matter (Morkanaut) gets stuck in CC it can't be fired... Overall, not nearly as bad as shootas nerf but still not great. Just making it Assault D3 would have been fine, we didn't want or need blast on our weapons systems that enjoy being in CC.

The big one. Rokkitz: Mork help me. I have to show the numbers so people grasp how crap this really is. Assault 1 Rokkit meant on average you had a 38.8% chance to hit, if you advanced it went to 19.4% chance to hit. Based on the 24' range you will need to move at least turn 1, and likely turns 2-3 as well. With 1/2/3 shots this is how the math works out.

1 shot: 16.7% chance to hit
2 Shots: 33.3% chance to hit
3 shots: 50% chance to hit.
If you advance...0% chance to hit.

So on average you are getting 2 shots, which since you will likely be moving means you are now LESS likely to hit your target, the only time this isn't true is if you roll a 5 or 6 and get 3 shots which gives you a 11.2% extra chance to hit. IF you roll a 1-2, congrats you just lost 22.1% chance to hit. And the coup de grâce, Rokkitz are now Blast as well. I don't know about you guys, but the vehicles i have that also have Rokkitz, i generally want in CC. Scrapjets, Morkanautz, Kanz...I want all of those in CC at some point and that means my Rokkitz just got nerfed on those units as well.

Mek Gun rules: Bubble chukka is better, hands down its just better. D6 shots, with D6 strength and D6 AP sounds good but it averaged 3-4 shots, at S3-4 and AP-3/4. not really worth much. But the real problem is the wording of the rules. "If the unit contains more than 1 bubblechukka" Reasonably sure this means we will no longer be dividing our mek gunz up after placing them :( I can tell you as a fact that this is a HUGE nerf. I can't tell you how many times i've had opponents choose other targets for their weapons because they didn't want to overkill 1 Mek gun.

Honestly, I am slightly worried about our hopes of having useful shooting right now. Unless we have a lot of other rules interaction that we aren't seeing yet, it looks like GW just told orkz to feth off with shooting entirely.

well let me throw you a bone - rockets on kanz will still hit on 4's as they are vehicles - a much needed buff for kanz

BDBurrow wrote:
On a positive note; grot mobs rokkit kans are hitting on 3s, reroll 1s, d3 blast shots.

I wonder what the kopta rokkits profile will be?

That's assuming we keep grot mobz the way they are and the kustom jobz are the same. Though kanz, assuming they're priced decently, definitely will be getting real mileage as a dakka unit.

SemperMortis wrote:

Overall First Impression: Fething Terrible. This is a nerf to Ork shooting almost across the board.

Furthermore, at 9' range it still takes a grand total of 12 Ork boyz shooting to kill a single Space Marine. Assuming we don't get a price hike that is ridiculous. 96pts of "buffed" shooting to kill a single fething Marine is pathetic. .

Big Shootas: Straight up still worthless. ALL within 18' range you need a grand total of 27 shots, so between 5 and 6 Big Shootas. Assuming you get them all on boyz that is 40-45pts of boyz and 25-30pts of Big shootas. All to kill 18pts of Marine.

Honestly, I am slightly worried about our hopes of having useful shooting right now. Unless we have a lot of other rules interaction that we aren't seeing yet, it looks like GW just told orkz to feth off with shooting entirely.

I am confused, are you complaining that shootas/big shoota are meh , or that the new codex rules are ?
The stats ( str, ap, d) of those guns don't change.
So, if 96pts of orks to kill a marine is pathetic, what about the 108pts we have today ? (~16 orks shootas with DDD).

Not trying to defend the new codex, after all we know not much about it, but you are comparing guns and models in the mindset that we will be playing them the same way we are playing them today.
No, this is wrong, keep in mind that we are going to change our tactics and the way we play.

Shootas ? Emphasize of the codex seems to get deadlier when we are close. and that's probably what we will do with them. In 9th ed units must go and grab objectives, getting closer is kind of obvious anyway.
Tankbustas ? Obviously, we will never advance our tankbustas, but more like playing them from a fixed position, probably center board - with T5 they may survive longer. Or maybe we'll get stratagems to move and shoot without penalties on heavies.
KMB ? well you just demonstrate that quad KMB is a bad idea. so we won't play that model fitted like that. Besides we have ways to fall back and still be shooting (blood axes rules for ex.. on a side note I really really hope the bloods axe can get way better rules....(

BDBurrow wrote:
On a positive note; grot mobs rokkit kans are hitting on 3s, reroll 1s, d3 blast shots.

I wonder what the kopta rokkits profile will be?

Do we even know if Grot mobs exist after a 9th Ed codex since that’s 8th Ed rules?

Another thing is we can see the person designing the ork changes have no idea what they are doing when they think a single str 10 hit on a bs4 platform that you can’t rely on to target is somehow better then d6 str 8 hits…. It really should have been d3 shots on a roll of 3. As designed it should target elite units with 3 wounds or similar vehicles like bikers, buggies etc. it’s a good change even if it’s slightly off

Well. I remain hopeful. I mean, Dakka guns are a new type of weapon that only WE have, meaning, our codex will most likely have the details for how they work.

You can probably still advance and fire them, and maybe we get no minus to hit?

I’m hopeful there will be niche shooting that works in spite of some poorly thought out rules.

But I expect some combo of evil suns, badmoons, strats, and warlord traits and maybe relics on certain vehicles to allow some stuff that’s better. To be fair ork shooting mostly sucked before anyway.

So how many extra shots does a Dakka jet in a apeedwaaagh?

11 ppm for a snagga will be a pain.

Codex seems weak

If true, then 9pts for Boyz and 11 for Snaggas is in-line with every codex released bar DE and Admech.
Battle sisters are 11, Necron Warriors are 13, Plague Marines are 21. It feels fair in that context.

It's only the silly priced troops that make them look bad. I know when you're forced to play Admech there is no way not to compare them to Skitarii though, so there is bound to be a bad taste when you look at 8pt Vanguard.

Boy is by far the worst troop of 9th edition codex. No way is fair costing 9 points.

shabadoit wrote:
If true, then 9pts for Boyz and 11 for Snaggas is in-line with every codex released bar DE and Admech.
Battle sisters are 11, Necron Warriors are 13, Plague Marines are 21. It feels fair in that context.

It's only the silly priced troops that make them look bad. I know when you're forced to play Admech there is no way not to compare them to Skitarii though, so there is bound to be a bad taste when you look at 8pt Vanguard.

What is the source of them being 9 and 11ppm being the price for Orks. In addition why the hell are they so expensive when Skitarii are walking around giving even space marine envy.

The prices are from the discord leaks, which have at least been partially proven.

There worse that 11pt, 13pt and 21pt models, sure, but I personally think the price is fair. I mean, Plague Marines are never played competitive and Battle Sisters are terrible and only see play because they're the only troop option.

We also haven't see the full range of buffs they can have. Maybe it will be Admech level crazy (it won't hopefully).

shabadoit wrote:
The prices are from the discord leaks, which have at least been partially proven.

There worse that 11pt, 13pt and 21pt models, sure, but I personally think the price is fair. I mean, Plague Marines are never played competitive and Battle Sisters are terrible and only see play because they're the only troop option.

We also haven't see the full range of buffs they can have. Maybe it will be Admech level crazy (it won't hopefully).

Why do these leaks never give the full picture if they have the information lol. And can I get a link to this Discord?

I think people are being hopeful dakkaguns will have an extra line in the advance and shoot like assault. If that was the case it should have been worded in the dakkagun text.

That or just removed assault from us across the board and replaced it with dakka, giving the bigger assault guns little difference in dakka range.

I have a feeling a tribe like evil sunz will get it, but not the dakkagun keyword itself