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Beardedragon wrote:
well. the fact its heavy, the rokkits sucks, but i usually teleported in my tankbustas anyway so it doesnt matter much to me.

It doesn't matter for vehicles either, they now have up to 3x the firepower in rokkits compared to the previous codex, with no penalty.

I had such hopes... High hopes make the fall and then impact that much more painful. TBH if one 9th ed codex had to be written all wrong, it was bound to be us, wasn't it ?

Oh well on the bright side of things, Goff hordes led by Ghaz seem really nasty now, like "delete whatever you touch" nasty.
Of course with 9 ppm we won't be having much aside from Da Boyz, so w&s the archetype actually works.

One thing that seems kind of certain (kind of because we don't have the strats relic, perhaps a few moar spucial ruuuuules, etc. yet), is that we sure as Mork ain't competing with druk and ad mech any time soon are we ? Sista level we may still get to with the right list building.

PS Blackie I love that Chiellini and Bonucci pic. Guess asking for that european cup + a decent ork codex was probably to much. Something had to give...

XC18 wrote:

I am confused, are you complaining that shootas/big shoota are meh , or that the new codex rules are ?
The stats ( str, ap, d) of those guns don't change.
So, if 96pts of orks to kill a marine is pathetic, what about the 108pts we have today ? (~16 orks shootas with DDD).

Not trying to defend the new codex, after all we know not much about it, but you are comparing guns and models in the mindset that we will be playing them the same way we are playing them today.
No, this is wrong, keep in mind that we are going to change our tactics and the way we play.

Shootas ? Emphasize of the codex seems to get deadlier when we are close. and that's probably what we will do with them. In 9th ed units must go and grab objectives, getting closer is kind of obvious anyway.
Tankbustas ? Obviously, we will never advance our tankbustas, but more like playing them from a fixed position, probably center board - with T5 they may survive longer. Or maybe we'll get stratagems to move and shoot without penalties on heavies.
KMB ? well you just demonstrate that quad KMB is a bad idea. so we won't play that model fitted like that. Besides we have ways to fall back and still be shooting (blood axes rules for ex.. on a side note I really really hope the bloods axe can get way better rules....(

No, I was giving my opinion on the information available. As far as the Shoota, ATM it takes 15-16 (120-128pts) Orkz shooting with DDD to kill a Marine, at any range 1-18. Guess how many Ork boyz it takes after this "Buff" at 10-18? 18. So its a minor buff at short range which is going to be incredibly niche in the game since those boyz are still going to want to be in CC and since shooting your charge target means you might lose charge range. And at mid-long range its a nerf.

I was hoping that Orkz would receive a somewhat hefty buff in dmg output to match that given to Marines and other factions in order for their basic weapon to keep up with the defensive power curve. In prior editions (Pre 2W marines) it only took 9 Orkz to kill a Marine, at that time an Ork boy was 6ppm and a Marine was 15. So 2.5x cheaper. Now (assuming we don't go to 9ppm) an ork is 2.25x cheaper (so less cheap in comparison) and it now takes 2x as many boyz to kill a Marine.

Honestly, if Ork shootas were going to stay relevant they would have needed to go to 4 shots, at worst it should have been 4 shots at half range and 3 normal. And even then it wouldn't have been as good as it used to be.

cody.d. wrote:
On the plus side, at least the teases are coming daily now.

Mmm, not sure how I feel about the D3 profiles on Rokkits and KMB. I certainly don't like the heavy on rockkits. It's one of the few weapons that tends to appear on infantry a bunch. Where big shootaz tend to appear on almost every vehicle.

Though having 4 big shootas on a vehicle then popping the speedwaagh means 24 str 5 ap1 shots if you're in half range of course. But to be honest. I would have preferred if Dakkagunz just gave 1+bs at half range instead, less mukkin about with a bunch of dice that will miss 2/3 of the time. Really hoping DDD isn't gone, or at least will have something to replace it that gives that rush of a few lucky hits making things explode.

It will take, on average, 27 big shoota shots to kill 1 Marine, with speedwaagh it goes to 18. So at max range (Turn 1...arguably the most important turn) its likely going to be 9 Big shootas to kill 1 Marine. if you get within 18' range its going to be 5-6 Big shootas. If you get within 18 AND pop Speedwaaagh its going to take 3-4 Big shootas to kill 1 single Marine.

Let all of that sink in. A SM Heavy Bolter went from 9 shots (3 heavy bolters) to kill 1 Marine (9 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds 2 dmg) to needing 4.5 shots to kill 1 Marine. Here we were hoping that Big shootas would maybe get 5 shots standard AND -1 AP. What did we get? A nerf at max range and +2 shots at Half range....

RedNoak wrote:
So lootaz are s7 ap1 dakka3/2 eh? Could be great... Put a bunch of em into trukks and drive around pewpew things up to 24" to death... But then you realize they are 17ppm xD

Lootas will likely be dead this edition as well. Hell, they sucked in 8th until we got a stratagem to mob them into a huge horde, double their firepower and give them exploding 5s and 6s. As soon as they took away the mob up rule the Loota bomb went away and you never again saw Lootas on the competitive lists again. In 9th? If they go the way of Dakkagunz and get 3/2 at 20ppm....yeah they will be just as terrible. They are the epitome of "Glass Cannon" but they have always lacked the "Cannon" aspect of the analogy. At 2 shots each a unit of 10 will currently only net you 7.7 hits for 5.2Ish wounds and 2.5 dead Marines. 200Pts killing 45ts is not exactly a good trade off. At 3 shots it goes to 4 Marines on average but still nowhere near where it should be for a unit that has 6+ armor because it works out to 1 turn of shooting before they in turn die. Barring some new rules interactions we don't know about yet, if Lootas aren't at the least 3 shots standard, they won't have much place in the game.

And finally, I really want to drive this point home because its annoying the hell out of me. Transhuman on S7 and below is NOT a good rule for orkz. Guys we are already T5. That means the only weapon systems that are impacted by this are S6, S7 and +1 to wound on S5 weapons (And a couple other niche scenarios). Those weapons are pretty scarce as of this moment. To put it bluntly, its not a good Kulture buff

Yeah Goff boyz for the damage output seems the way to go, but perhaps snakebites if "assault canons and the like" become meta. Bad moon gorkanauts (if gorkanaut can still take the KJ for 4+ BS, and gorkanauts are more durable than currently) could be decent with bad moon extra range and the speedwaagh extra ap.

If lootas can't gain AP (they can't through the waaaghs) yes they will keep being trash, but perhaps they went to AP 2 ? (on reddit the guys says they are trash though, so don't get any hopes up)

If the rumors are true and Mob Rule is gone how badly will that hurt us and what might we expect as a brandade of that problem? I was over the moon when I first read Mob rule after suffering through the previous rule from 7th, which to me never did any thing positive for me outside of a Green tide formation. 7th was such a kick in the crotch.
I really feel like not having my troops evaporate at the first sign of enemy contact is key to having my half of the fun. Has GW lost their collective minds or will it all be ok?

Geeze I just wrote a BoLS or spiky bitz post there. Sorry for that.
I'm just a little worried.

It's very disappointing because the model releases for this new edition is truly amongst the best Orks have gotten, yet GW really seem to have dropped the ball when it comes to following through on the rules side. It certainly does not seem to match the rules writing of Admech or DE where pretty much everything got elevated to usable and streamlined.

Yeah it seems like for us everything is made equally unusable and streamlined...

exagerations aside, I am still hyped for the new snagga mounts since I like the AoS aesthetic they have. Im pretty sure i will still get the box just for the minis even if I will have to shelf them until the next codex.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the 25pt difference between the BW and bonebreaker is usually the reason i use the BW. Often i find i need to shed a few points...and D6 extra attacks that gets denied if someone charges me first isnt that appealing.

I prefer the bonebreaka. I use it extensively with the red rolla. I typically load it with 10 nobz with big choppas, pay to put it in the tellyporta, and then pop Ramming speed out of Deep Strike.
I don't give any guns to the bonebreaka, it is simply there to deliver nobz and smack, and getting 3d6 charge with reroll any/all dice has been super silly. I've not played in any GTs but I do a lot of local tournaments and typically do well (2-1 is my normal record locally against a bunch of sweaty neck beard guard/marine players)

 warhead01 wrote:

I really feel like not having my troops evaporate at the first sign of enemy contact is key to having my half of the fun. Has GW lost their collective minds or will it all be ok?

Don't forget that morale is a lot less punishing in 9th. Units don't evaporate, you just lose 1 guy + 1/6 of the remaning unit (or 1/3 of the remaining unit if you're already badly depleted). Painful but nowhere near as bad as 'kill half the unit and watch the other half vanish'.

If lootas can't gain AP (they can't through the waaaghs) yes they will keep being trash, but perhaps they went to AP 2 ? (on reddit the guys says they are trash though, so don't get any hopes up)

With the SpeedWaaagh, if loota are in a vehicle they can imporve their AP.
In addition, if they have Dakka weapon, they can move and shoot without penalty.

I didn't say loota will be awsome in this new codex but there may be things to do with

new article confirms the snakebite traits.

Squigboy weapons are pretty good assuming they arent priced out the wazoo like ork stuff usually is on release (buggies had to be cut back by like 25-30% before we touched them)

3 S6 Ap2 2D attacks from the ork and 2 S6 Ap1 2D attacks from the squig. Not bad, and if Snakebites they will wound most things on 2+ on the charge

Also the strat is interesting....you pick up to 3 snagga units to get the bonus. That makes me wonder if Squigboyz are locked to 3 models per unit but they offset the biggest problem with doing that (strat benefits) by letting the strat target multiples.

Snakebites klan trait and Squighog full rules out. Leaks were correct again.

Squighogs seem decent enough. I now consider if I should convert a squad of those on smaller trikes to match my Speed Freeks.

Kinda surprised there's no bonus to damage/strength for the stikka on the charge, though tbf Snakebites already get a bonus for squig units so they probably didn't want to over do it. They also have a ranged attack so that partly makes up for it.

But yet another rumour confirmed on the leaks that were shared.

I can live with no Mob Rule (personally what hurts more is that we can't count as Ld30 against stuff like Mind War and other Ld shenanigans) but having a 6+ invuln KFF is going to HURT. They better cut its cost down to like 10-15 points because it's nowhere near worth what it cost before now.

Bonebreaka with Red Rolla in Tellyporta plus Ramming Speed is a solid combo, even if it's empty, but I would never play it in a different way.

For a transport that needs to be on the field turn 1 the regular BW is hands down better though, cheaper, with a higher transport capacity and a better save, assuming you give it Forktress or has a Big Mek inside. And the additional D6 attacks aren't always gained.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:


PS Blackie I love that Chiellini and Bonucci pic. Guess asking for that european cup + a decent ork codex was probably to much. Something had to give...

Well I like to follow leaks and rumors and to make my own speculations, but until I see the whole codex I don't really worry. I'm quite optimistic .

Leaks accurate again.

Squighog boys, if they are around 35ish points, might be quite good under snakebites.

 warhead01 wrote:
If the rumors are true and Mob Rule is gone how badly will that hurt us and what might we expect as a brandade of that problem? I was over the moon when I first read Mob rule after suffering through the previous rule from 7th, which to me never did any thing positive for me outside of a Green tide formation. 7th was such a kick in the crotch.
I really feel like not having my troops evaporate at the first sign of enemy contact is key to having my half of the fun. Has GW lost their collective minds or will it all be ok?

Geeze I just wrote a BoLS or spiky bitz post there. Sorry for that.
I'm just a little worried.

mob rule loss would hurt a lot on morale, but with how 9th handles morale its not nearly as bad as it would have been in 8th. I am hoping they mayeb just bring back the boss pole IF we lost mob rule, it is in the current boyz box and is fairly iconic to orks.

Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Yeah, its kinda a weird edge case where its really dependent on the local meta, since only some armies can really spam S6-7 weaponry.

st7, strategies that do the +1 and poison weapons if they can wound on a 3 or better

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Honestly based on my experience with +1 to wound at the tournament I was at last weekend - that would be great to counteract that. It was so obnoxious.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
new article confirms the snakebite traits.

Squigboy weapons are pretty good assuming they arent priced out the wazoo like ork stuff usually is on release (buggies had to be cut back by like 25-30% before we touched them)

3 S6 Ap2 2D attacks from the ork and 2 S6 Ap1 2D attacks from the squig. Not bad, and if Snakebites they will wound most things on 2+ on the charge

Also the strat is interesting....you pick up to 3 snagga units to get the bonus. That makes me wonder if Squigboyz are locked to 3 models per unit but they offset the biggest problem with doing that (strat benefits) by letting the strat target multiples.

The datasheet says No. 3-6 on top of the datasheet

 Nazgrim wrote:

If lootas can't gain AP (they can't through the waaaghs) yes they will keep being trash, but perhaps they went to AP 2 ? (on reddit the guys says they are trash though, so don't get any hopes up)

With the SpeedWaaagh, if loota are in a vehicle they can imporve their AP.
In addition, if they have Dakka weapon, they can move and shoot without penalty.

I didn't say loota will be awsome in this new codex but there may be things to do with

Embarked models don't gain any benefit from Speedwaaagh!, it specifically only affects models in Vehicle and Biker units, not models embarked in one.

Twilight Pathways wrote:


Don't forget that morale is a lot less punishing in 9th. Units don't evaporate, you just lose 1 guy + 1/6 of the remaning unit (or 1/3 of the remaining unit if you're already badly depleted). Painful but nowhere near as bad as 'kill half the unit and watch the other half vanish'.

Lets do some simple math. Orkz with a Nob are LD7. In a mob of 30 you lose 7 boyz (not exactly fething hard). You auto lose 1 more so now you have 22 boyz left, you than lose 1/6th of what is left, so you lose 3-4 more boyz. Every single fething time we lose 7 models from an Ork mob you are going to lose 4-5 more from Morale. Losing 40pts per turn to morale is kind of a big deal honestly.

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Its even worse LMAO! I just realized, the Snakebite kulture is the one you are going to want to take Squig riders in, and they are T6! LMAO! So YAY it fething stops S7 weapons from wounding you on 3s. Whoopdee fething do.

I think I'm ok with these rules. My biggest concern was we weren't going to want to use snagga boyz in anything other than snakebites. Looking at the kultur rules though, that's really only the case for the awful squig rider models. I can definitely see throwing 10-20 snaggas in a transport as part of a goff/evil suns/etc. list. 110 pts for 10 inherent S5 boyz with a 6++ and some different utility ranged weapons. Makes the beast snagga box a little more enticing. I could just keep the snagga boyz and sell everything else.

SemperMortis wrote:

Twilight Pathways wrote:


Don't forget that morale is a lot less punishing in 9th. Units don't evaporate, you just lose 1 guy + 1/6 of the remaning unit (or 1/3 of the remaining unit if you're already badly depleted). Painful but nowhere near as bad as 'kill half the unit and watch the other half vanish'.

Lets do some simple math. Orkz with a Nob are LD7. In a mob of 30 you lose 7 boyz (not exactly fething hard). You auto lose 1 more so now you have 22 boyz left, you than lose 1/6th of what is left, so you lose 3-4 more boyz. Every single fething time we lose 7 models from an Ork mob you are going to lose 4-5 more from Morale. Losing 40pts per turn to morale is kind of a big deal honestly.

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Its even worse LMAO! I just realized, the Snakebite kulture is the one you are going to want to take Squig riders in, and they are T6! LMAO! So YAY it fething stops S7 weapons from wounding you on 3s. Whoopdee fething do.

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

Yes, I purposefully ignored it. Because how many S6 weapons do you know of that have a +1 to wound mechanic? The snakebite kulture is crap. Maybe they will let Grotz take the kulture finally, if that is the case Snakebites will just be hte grot kulture with Green tide becoming a horde of little Grots who can only be wounded on 4s

Squighog statline isn't bad for sure. I don't see it doing much damage to a knight (5-7 with stategem and snakebite) but they are decent against PEQ.

I think the bigger part of snakebite is the +1 to wound on squigs more so than the weird S1-S7 rule which downscales in effectiveness ironically on squigs with T6.

I feel like the value from the weird S7 rule would primarily be useful in the sense that it would cover you from S3-S7 and force your opponent into a S3 or S5/6 sweet spot to deal damage efficiently. That could be confounding for marines who don't have a lot of either, being primarily S4 with some odds and ends at S8, S7, and S5.

The bigger concern I have is that since this leak proved to be true, it makes me worried about KFF getting nerfed. KFF would also be redundant with the Snagga gits.

Does anyone think they will switch to Snakebites with this new rule? I feel like there are almost certainly going to be more interesting combos in the dex with other traits, which will potentially make squigs less appealing as a result.

I'm also particularly frustrated as klaws are again getting sidelined behind all these new weapons - 'uge choppa, the pincer, the spears....even the klaws so far, every single one has been messed up. The nob klaw is backwards for some reason, the snagga boss has a silly looking skull klaw, the painboss klaw looks weird, the squig rider SC only has a wrist mounted stabba, and they seem to be big on this pincer thing.

At least it might mean fewer of those killsaws which are awful from a modeling standpoint.

I just want a legit standard power klaw, man. What's so wrong about the old school good-ol' power klaw? It looks better than any of this junk.

SemperMortis wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

Yes, I purposefully ignored it. Because how many S6 weapons do you know of that have a +1 to wound mechanic? The snakebite kulture is crap. Maybe they will let Grotz take the kulture finally, if that is the case Snakebites will just be hte grot kulture with Green tide becoming a horde of little Grots who can only be wounded on 4s

That would be hilarious and exactly the kind of thing I expect GW to overlook before grot tide becomes a new meta and GW furiously nerfs them to the ground. With how the klan traits are looking they may as well give them to grots at this point tbh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
Squighog statline isn't bad for sure. I don't see it doing much damage to a knight (5-7 with stategem and snakebite) but they are decent against PEQ.

I think the bigger part of snakebite is the +1 to wound on squigs more so than the weird S1-S7 rule which downscales in effectiveness ironically on squigs with T6.

I feel like the value from the weird S7 rule would primarily be useful in the sense that it would cover you from S3-S7 and force your opponent into a S3 or S5/6 sweet spot to deal damage efficiently. That could be confounding for marines who don't have a lot of either, being primarily S4 with some odds and ends at S8, S7, and S5.

The bigger concern I have is that since this leak proved to be true, it makes me worried about KFF getting nerfed. KFF would also be redundant with the Snagga gits.

Does anyone think they will switch to Snakebites with this new rule? I feel like there are almost certainly going to be more interesting combos in the dex with other traits, which will potentially make squigs less appealing as a result.

I'm also particularly frustrated as klaws are again getting sidelined behind all these new weapons - 'uge choppa, the pincer, the spears....even the klaws so far, every single one has been messed up. The nob klaw is backwards for some reason, the snagga boss has a silly looking skull klaw, the painboss klaw looks weird, the squig rider SC only has a wrist mounted stabba, and they seem to be big on this pincer thing.

At least it might mean fewer of those killsaws which are awful from a modeling standpoint.

I just want a legit standard power klaw, man. What's so wrong about the old school good-ol' power klaw? It looks better than any of this junk.

Yeah, I did find it interesting that they've been avoiding showing any sign of the PK rule overhaul, it's a bit concerning we're seeing all these baby variants with +2S, AP-2 and flat 2 damage but nothing on the main kind. I have a bad feeling with these rumours that it might actually be worse than a SM PF at this point.

SemperMortis wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

Yes, I purposefully ignored it. Because how many S6 weapons do you know of that have a +1 to wound mechanic? The snakebite kulture is crap. Maybe they will let Grotz take the kulture finally, if that is the case Snakebites will just be hte grot kulture with Green tide becoming a horde of little Grots who can only be wounded on 4s

I could be a stupid git but I remember a bunch of Drukhari gak blowing my Evil Sunz mind as they wounded me on 3s with the +1 to wound while my stuff was T6. It was a lot of shenanigans so I lost track to be honest lol.

Denying poison effects is the big thing about the transork rule. They clearly did that because of drukari i gaurantee it, dont want the "oops too strong" army to auto kill the new shinies after all.

Theres also a handful of relics or special guns on characters that just flatout wound on 2s that are denied such effects.

Its not bad. Its just not ridiculous because for some reason S8 is easier to spam than S6/7 in this game. Had it included S8 we probably wouldnt be complaining at all since it makes sense such a mechanic would have a limit (even transhuman should have a flippin limit, a FW titan gun of S-FU only wounding a gravis armor on 4s is just fething dumb)
Honestly outside of a few melee focused units with S6 powerswords i cant think of any S6/7 thats brought in decent rate of fire. It basically jumps from S4/5 spam to S8, since Autocannons suck generally and for some reason nothing else S6/7 shooting wise is spammable for most armies.

That being said, my army is yellow and badmoonz look decent if that rumor is true so i may be happy for that lol. 24" shoota boyz ftw.