Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 the_scotsman wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
Flash gits are not clan locked anymore so at least they get affected by as +1 auras and abilities now. And a culture ability

You can put some in a big ead base. Deep strike it and because the big EAD base has a special remaining stationary rule for embarked units they won't get -1on heavy weapons

you could also put squig tyres on it and creep it 1" forward each turn

BTW, why are you all talking about the killrig?
the huntarig is basically a 160 point bonebreaka, if you used a tellyported bonebreaka why not call it a (bitter tasting) win with 15points and a cp saved?

EDIT:
my bad on the dakkajet, thought you only pay for the extra two supashootaz. but still not sold on the effectivness :/

You do absolutely pay for only the additional 2 supa-shootas. That's how the new point cost system works. Anything the unit has by default on the datasheet, the unit has for its base cost, and they only add a point cost for things that cost you additional points. And if you look at the dakkajet's cost it says "ADDITIONAL supa-shoota +10pts". Or how Killa Kanz are now - the Big Shoota and Grotzooka are both 0pts upgrades, so neither are listed. Only the Scorcha which costs 5 more points and the rokkits which cost 15 more points are listed.

We were talking about the 8th edition codex - you need to pay for all 6 there.

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Yeah, the speedwaagh buffs seem really strong compared to the normal waagh buffs.
Evil Sunz isn't too bad either because they basically have part of the speed waagh permanently unlocked already.

Keep in mind though that infantry do not get the extra armor pen from speedwaagh, only Bikers and vehicles. If you want the extra pen on infantry you have to go badmoonz and hope for 6s

Freebooters are not that good. The buff only affects other freebooters.

Grots do not get kultures. So no tanky snakebite gobbos. :(
Also, specialist mobs don't get kultures either. They just allow everyone else to have one.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but just wanted clarification...

The Big'ed bossbunka.

Its Shoutin' Pole says:

While a WARBOSS model is embarked upon this TRANSPORT, the bearer gains that WARBOSS model's Warboss, Beastboss or Flashiest Gitz aura ability.

So just to check, this still wouldn't apply to anyone in the bunker no? E.g. If Badrukk is in the bunker with 9 flash gitz, they dont get rerolls do they?

Or am I missing a 9th edition aura/transport change?

Regards

oh feth me. Rokkits for killa kanz is 15 points.

A killa kan with rokkits is 55 points..

Brad Gamma wrote:
Sorry if this has been posted before, but just wanted clarification...

The Big'ed bossbunka.

Its Shoutin' Pole says:

While a WARBOSS model is embarked upon this TRANSPORT, the bearer gains that WARBOSS model's Warboss, Beastboss or Flashiest Gitz aura ability.

So just to check, this still wouldn't apply to anyone in the bunker no? E.g. If Badrukk is in the bunker with 9 flash gitz, they dont get rerolls do they?

Or am I missing a 9th edition aura/transport change?

Regards

embarked units never benefit from auras.

maybe someone could give the warboss a damn walkie talkie ...so he DOESNT NEED TO BE IN THE FRIGGIN THING?!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. Which kind of sucks.
I guess they really want you to take Badmoonz if you want to shoot.
I like the Badmoonz trait, actually. To me it seems pretty useful.

Specialist Mobz do not actually have a limit. So you can make an army of trukk boyz if you want.
RAW though you can't actually put them in the trukk, which is silly.

Specialist mobz are limited unfortunately to one per detachment. you can have multiple trukk boyz if the are from different detachments

enni wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. Which kind of sucks.
I guess they really want you to take Badmoonz if you want to shoot.
I like the Badmoonz trait, actually. To me it seems pretty useful.

Specialist Mobz do not actually have a limit. So you can make an army of trukk boyz if you want.
RAW though you can't actually put them in the trukk, which is silly.

Specialist mobz are limited unfortunately to one per detachment. you can have multiple trukk boyz if the are from different detachments

Ah I didn't see that clause. I missed the "one"
Well that's unfortunate. Oh well, they don't benefit from kultures anyway and can't even use transports.

It's fairly clear that trukk boyz are intended to be using trukks. Just explain the whole thing to your opponent, the codex is banned from most bigger events anyways.

RedNoak wrote:


embarked units never benefit from auras.

maybe someone could give the warboss a damn walkie talkie ...so he DOESNT NEED TO BE IN THE FRIGGIN THING?!

Thats what I thought, it just seems odd that they'd make a whole special rule, that includes the flashiest gitz rule, that follows normal transport rules otherwise.

enni wrote:

enni wrote:
for bombs add in the ones from koptaz. by the way you can drop 2 from a unit of 6 each dealing d3 mortals to each unit in 3" on 4+






Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
I can’t find the link with pics of clan specific psychic powers. Anyone got it

from my post earlier

https://m.imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

edit: sorry there are no clan specific psychic powers, thought you meant relics/strats etc.

Dang we lost those too?

gungo wrote:

enni wrote:

enni wrote:
for bombs add in the ones from koptaz. by the way you can drop 2 from a unit of 6 each dealing d3 mortals to each unit in 3" on 4+






Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
I can’t find the link with pics of clan specific psychic powers. Anyone got it

from my post earlier

https://m.imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

edit: sorry there are no clan specific psychic powers, thought you meant relics/strats etc.

Dang we lost those too?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were brought back through a warzone supplement codex.

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Unfortunately I think speed waagh gives the extra shot only to the trukk, not the shoota boyz in it. Am I wrong ? Again ?! I keep being wrong about how I understand rules in this debacle of a codex.

 addnid wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Unfortunately I think speed waagh gives the extra shot only to the trukk, not the shoota boyz in it. Am I wrong ? Again ?! I keep being wrong about how I understand rules in this debacle of a codex.

Yeah, it only affects vehicles and bikes, not infantry. So only the trukk is getting the AP modifier.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Unfortunately I think speed waagh gives the extra shot only to the trukk, not the shoota boyz in it. Am I wrong ? Again ?! I keep being wrong about how I understand rules in this debacle of a codex.

Yeah, it only affects vehicles and bikes, not infantry. So only the trukk is getting the AP modifier.

But transports have the advanced rule that any buffs/debuffs affecting the vehicles also affect the models inside. What am I missing?

Brad Gamma wrote:
Sorry if this has been posted before, but just wanted clarification...

The Big'ed bossbunka.

Its Shoutin' Pole says:

While a WARBOSS model is embarked upon this TRANSPORT, the bearer gains that WARBOSS model's Warboss, Beastboss or Flashiest Gitz aura ability.

So just to check, this still wouldn't apply to anyone in the bunker no? E.g. If Badrukk is in the bunker with 9 flash gitz, they dont get rerolls do they?

Or am I missing a 9th edition aura/transport change?

Regards

yeah, the bossbunka is weird as it essentially just lets you hide your warboss but doesn't increase aura ability range. also the two standard auras are melee which is ... not so useful on an immobile unit

which opponent is stupid enough to get into a brawl right next to your bossbunka. and wouldn't you rather want your warboss outside to heroicly interve?

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

I was just going to retort that this wasn't a thing until I realized it says "models in a vehicle." Derp.

BDBurrow wrote:


But transports have the advanced rule that any buffs/debuffs affecting the vehicles also affect the models inside. What am I missing?

It says "Each time a model in an orks vehicle or Orks Biker unit from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon [...]"

Do they not count as part of the unit once embarked?

Did some maths agains MEQ at BS5.

8 Shootas
1 big shoota
1 Kombi skorcha

Dakka range
1.3 8 shoota boys at 3 shots
.0792 kombi shoota profile
1.155 kombi skorcha profile
.36 big shoota 5 shots
2.82 wounds against MEQ

Dakka range speed waaagh round 1
1.74 8 shootaboys at 4 shots
.10 kombi weapon shoota profile 4 shots
1.155 kombi skorcha profile
.43 big shoota 6 shots
3.4 wounds on MEQ

Dakka range speed waaagh round 2
2.64 shootaboys at 3 shots AP-1
.16 kombi weapon shota 3 shots AP-1
1.5246 kombi skorcha profile
.65 big shoota 5 shots AP-1
4.97 wounds on MEQ

By contrast, one unit of 4 burna boyz at 12":
2.31 wounds not including spanna
8 burna boyz:
4.62 wounds not including spannas

8 burnas with -1 AP
7 wounds

one unit of 6 warbikers (175 p):

No speedwaaagh at 9"
4.31 wounds

Speedwaaagh +1 shot at 9"
4.74 wounds

Speedwaaagh -1 AP at 9"
6.5 wounds

Speedwaaagh +1 shot at 18"
3.02 wounds

No buffs at 18"
2.58 wounds

The AP-1 buff seems to be far more significant than the extra shot. The thing that makes me nervous is how it wants you to get into 9". Each Trukkboy unit would run roughly 175 points.
With BS4 and AP-1 at 9" (freebootas buff)
3 wounds with shootas
1.52 wounds with kombi skorcha
.25 wounds with kombi shoota
.82 wounds with big shoota
5.59 wounds

Well, it's better than I thought.

Ignore this post, had incorrect info.

I just read all the Ork planes rules. I have 3...I need to get about 6 more

They very well might be the "bright spot" in our codex. Team them up with a Speedwaaagh on the ground of warbikers and we have an army of -1 to hit T5+ vehicles that most have -1dmg as well.

BDBurrow wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Unfortunately I think speed waagh gives the extra shot only to the trukk, not the shoota boyz in it. Am I wrong ? Again ?! I keep being wrong about how I understand rules in this debacle of a codex.

Yeah, it only affects vehicles and bikes, not infantry. So only the trukk is getting the AP modifier.

But transports have the advanced rule that any buffs/debuffs affecting the vehicles also affect the models inside. What am I missing?

RAW i think you are right as the rare rules copy all modifiers for the transport to the embarked units shooting

edit: cthululu is right its only vehicles and bikers benefiting which excludes the embarked units

I'm glad I painted up my Dakkajet and Wazbom Blastajet recently, they'll actually see use again!

Do buggies still look viable at all alongside a mechanized list? I'm wondering if an Outrider detachment is worth it so we can basically do what we used to do and take advantage of the points cuts we got instead of relying solely on the kustom jobs which are now pretty poopy.

Buggies are good (rukkastrukk is very good). They are fast, punchy and undercosted.

Imho

enni wrote:

BDBurrow wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Unfortunately I think speed waagh gives the extra shot only to the trukk, not the shoota boyz in it. Am I wrong ? Again ?! I keep being wrong about how I understand rules in this debacle of a codex.

Yeah, it only affects vehicles and bikes, not infantry. So only the trukk is getting the AP modifier.

But transports have the advanced rule that any buffs/debuffs affecting the vehicles also affect the models inside. What am I missing?

RAW i think you are right as the rare rules copy all modifiers for the transport to the embarked units shooting

From the advanced rules - "If a transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hits rolls, wound rolls, etc) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

The vehicle gets the modifier, and then the modifier is passed on to the embarked unit via this rule. If the rule said "the embarked unit also gets the buff/debuff", then it wouldn't work as SpeedWaagh specifically calls out vehicles and bikers. But it doesn't say that. It says "the modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack." The way I'm reading this, all of our infantry get Speedwaagh only while inside transports. So running tankbustas or lootas inside battlewagons has real legs.

Couple things on transports:

Rare Rules 9: If a TRANSPORT model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack.

(this is interesting for Trukk Boyz as I believe it means that in granting +1 to the trukk they're riding in, they also always attack at BS4+)

Rare Rules 7: Any abilities (including Detachment abilities) that models in an embarked unit have, or that their weapons have, continue to apply when they make ranged attacks. "Waaagh" is a datasheet ability that all orks models have, so models in transports, boss bunkas etc DO benefit from the effects of both waaghs and speedwaaghs.

Whether or not infantry embarked within orks vehicles benefit from Speedwaaagh I believe is whether or not GW considers +1 shot from Dakka weaponry and -1AP to be a 'modifier' because while they specify an example in rare rule 9 "(such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc)" it's unclear whether the extra shots and ap are a 'modifier.'

BDBurrow wrote:

enni wrote:

BDBurrow wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Unfortunately I think speed waagh gives the extra shot only to the trukk, not the shoota boyz in it. Am I wrong ? Again ?! I keep being wrong about how I understand rules in this debacle of a codex.

Yeah, it only affects vehicles and bikes, not infantry. So only the trukk is getting the AP modifier.

But transports have the advanced rule that any buffs/debuffs affecting the vehicles also affect the models inside. What am I missing?

RAW i think you are right as the rare rules copy all modifiers for the transport to the embarked units shooting

From the advanced rules - "If a transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hits rolls, wound rolls, etc) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

The way I'm reading this, all of our infantry get Speedwaagh only while inside transports. So running tankbustas or lootas inside battlewagons has real legs.

I was wrong and cthululu was right. speedwaagh unfortunately specifies that only the shooting from vehicles and bikers is affected. so embarking wont give you bonuses

enni wrote:

BDBurrow wrote:

enni wrote:

BDBurrow wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Dakka does not appear to allow you to Advance and fire. So much for shoota mobz I guess.

I'm going to try shoota boyz in a trukk (not to be confused with trukk boyz) in my Speedwaaagh freebootas list to see if theyve got any teeth. 4 shots AP-1 doesnt sound too shabby to me with the speedwaagh popped.

Unfortunately I think speed waagh gives the extra shot only to the trukk, not the shoota boyz in it. Am I wrong ? Again ?! I keep being wrong about how I understand rules in this debacle of a codex.

Yeah, it only affects vehicles and bikes, not infantry. So only the trukk is getting the AP modifier.

But transports have the advanced rule that any buffs/debuffs affecting the vehicles also affect the models inside. What am I missing?

RAW i think you are right as the rare rules copy all modifiers for the transport to the embarked units shooting

From the advanced rules - "If a transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hits rolls, wound rolls, etc) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

The way I'm reading this, all of our infantry get Speedwaagh only while inside transports. So running tankbustas or lootas inside battlewagons has real legs.

I was wrong and cthululu was right. speedwaagh unfortunately specifies that only the shooting from vehicles and bikers is affected. so embarking wont give you bonuses

I edited my response above. I still think it applies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the_scotsman wrote:
Couple things on transports:

Rare Rules 9: If a TRANSPORT model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack.

(this is interesting for Trukk Boyz as I believe it means that in granting +1 to the trukk they're riding in, they also always attack at BS4+)

Rare Rules 7: Any abilities (including Detachment abilities) that models in an embarked unit have, or that their weapons have, continue to apply when they make ranged attacks. "Waaagh" is a datasheet ability that all orks models have, so models in transports, boss bunkas etc DO benefit from the effects of both waaghs and speedwaaghs.

Whether or not infantry embarked within orks vehicles benefit from Speedwaaagh I believe is whether or not GW considers +1 shot from Dakka weaponry and -1AP to be a 'modifier' because while they specify an example in rare rule 9 "(such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc)" it's unclear whether the extra shots and ap are a 'modifier.'

-1AP and extra shots are by definition "modifiers to its ranged attacks."

Did I read trukk boyz specialist right?

It also gives a bonus on shooting to the trukk itself, not the models within it? So basically the single big shoota? What a bizarre little add on lol. That's not even a complaint as I love it overall. Just... the tiniest of add ons to go with it.

Keramory wrote:
Did I read trukk boyz specialist right?

It also gives a bonus on shooting to the trukk itself, not the models within it? So basically the single big shoota? What a bizarre little add on lol. That's not even a complaint as I love it overall. Just... the tiniest of add ons to go with it.

Based on the wording of the advanced rule that we referenced above, the +1 to hit modifier for the trukk is passed on to models embarked within it. So as the scottsman stated, shoota boyz w/ the trukk boyz spec mob inside a trukk get BS 4+. Then during the speedwaagh their shootas become Dakka 4/3 S4 AP-1 D1. 12 shootas in a trukk w/in 9" get 48 shots at S4, AP-1, D1, hitting on 4s. That kills 3 space marines. Not bad IMO.

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm glad I painted up my Dakkajet and Wazbom Blastajet recently, they'll actually see use again!

Do buggies still look viable at all alongside a mechanized list? I'm wondering if an Outrider detachment is worth it so we can basically do what we used to do and take advantage of the points cuts we got instead of relying solely on the kustom jobs which are now pretty poopy.

The Snazzwaggon absolutely devours M/PEQ, 10-14 s5 ap2 d2 shots.

Keramory wrote:
Did I read trukk boyz specialist right?

It also gives a bonus on shooting to the trukk itself, not the models within it? So basically the single big shoota? What a bizarre little add on lol. That's not even a complaint as I love it overall. Just... the tiniest of add ons to go with it.

There's a few things in the book like that, like 'Orrible Gitz whose main purpose is to give a unit of grots Objective Secured back but bizarrely includes a debuff of -1 to hit in shooting for any units (friendlies included) within 3" of them.

Re: Speedwaaagh and Trukkboyz buffs, GW's intent through 8th edition was clear enough to me that I doubt it's dramatically changed. Regardless of how you can interpret RAW, expect an errata to make it clear that units embarked in an open-topped transport only are affected by negative modifiers to their shooting. Everyone remembers the Battlewagon ignores Heavy penalty issue, right? Same principle, and I expect the same ruling from GW.

 Jidmah wrote:


Speaking of worthless models, did anyone see the mini-mek anywhere? Or did GW just give up and axed him?

It's 25 p with kustom mega slugga and choppa

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Specialist Mobz do not actually have a limit. So you can make an army of trukk boyz if you want.
RAW though you can't actually put them in the trukk, which is silly.

First part isn't true, you are allowed to take one specialist mob per detachment.

Source, literally the specialist mobs section