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Which is fair as it made 0 sense that the aircraft couldnt just nose up and fly off that way.

Its still comically effective as it will force an aircraft to leave for a turn, probably really pissing someone off since they lose the shooting for it.
Not something i'd intentionally aim to do but if there was an aircraft nearby i'd stikk it. Not like that weapon is all that powerful anyway (find it weird its only 1 shot flat3 damage when its a gigantic harpoon)

 TedNugent wrote:
At least warboss was confirmed to take PK for 100 points. Forced to take Kombi weapon.

Big mek in MA can also take a Killsaw and comes with a klaw. 30 points for KFF. Why. Why would you ever. They also misprinted 4" movement.

Grotsnik is junk.

Lots of incredibly obvious mistakes in this codex, it seems. Ripe for a FAQ. Also rules seem jumbled over each other, some of which seems intentional to ruin certain things.

No nob bikers, no warboss on bike. Not sure if Evil Suns clan rules going to print was intended as a joke.

They were absolutely brutal to Gretchin. They want you taking those snagga gits for sure I guess.

I just don't know if there's even a reason to take a big mek. Why bother. Even with traditional orks, they just seem awful.

Kill rig can only take one relic, beastgob.

gungo wrote:
Is maddoc the only model missing rules?

Grotsnik is literally a painboy with a 2+ ws and a 5+ fnp on self.

To be fair he also can advance and charge freely and can heal and fnp all clans and subkkultures and has a base 4+ save. But I agree he really shouldn’t cost more then 10 points more then a painboy. I was hoping he could heal ghaz but that’s out still ork infantry

He's also not deathskullz locked anymore since hes in that list of exceptions.
He wont have a 5++ against mortals or get 1 reroll hit or wound.... oh no im really upset about that lol

He was damn near autotake before but kultures usually got in the way. Theyre not in the way now. Muhahaha.

Looking through the book leaks..
the fact the mega boss has ZERO build options means he’s probably a pushfit model or a clam pack static model. I’m extremely surprised how limited the build is even if the Uge choppa isn’t bad weapon.

So ghaz has a reroll 1 to hit aura not the +1 to hit warboss aura… meaning he stacks with whatever beastrider snagga boss or named version or warboss you get. I’d still probably make them goff as well since makari is a cheap painboy. But it’s nice to see some things stack.

Also lol at evil suns getting a +1 to hit psychic power.. as if there is any unit left in your army that your weirdboy will by running alongside thats needs a +1 to hit… just add it to the list.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
3+?

*rummages through leaks*

wait wtf their extra cover rule says "receives benefit of cover, add 2 to their save" instead of "when receiving benefit of cover add 2 instead of 1 to their save"

10 bucks they faq that. 3+ kommandos is nutty.

You can compare with the grots rule which has the exact same wording but [receives benefit of cover, add 1 to their save].
So teah kommandos really got 3+ save in cover.

Warboss does get the 5+ invulnerable save.

So technically he did get better even if you're forced to pay for the big choppa and the kombi weapon.

Arguably with Headwoppas and a decent warlord trait or, being the only decent beatstick who can take Da Killa Klaw, he may be able to do some work. Still beyond lame you can only take one. I would fancy being able to take one with Woppas and one with DKK.

He does negate the -1 to hit on a standard PK, so with a Brutal but Kunnin' or the -1 to wound trait and Supa Cybork he could be interesting and decently resilient too. Default PK with +1 to hit is technically better than the Huge Choppa, being S12, and only takes up 1 transport spot.

Again, really annoying that you can only take one.

 TedNugent wrote:
Warboss does get the 5+ invulnerable save.

So technically he did get better even if you're forced to pay for the big choppa and the kombi weapon.

Arguably with Headwoppas and a decent warlord trait or, being the only decent beatstick who can take Da Killa Klaw, he may be able to do some work. Still beyond lame you can only take one. I would fancy being able to take one with Woppas and one with DKK.

You can thank marines and guys like Tau Coldstar commanders for setting the trend for limiting HQ choices for us.

 Grimskul wrote:


You can thank marines and guys like Tau Coldstar commanders for setting the trend for limiting HQ choices for us.

I'd thank GW seeing as they wrote all three codexes. Still a lame rule, especially considering guys like Ghazghkull literally have multiple warbosses, to the point of literally having a formation called Council of the Waagh with, what, 3 Warbosses in it?

I like the classic Big Choppa Warboss model. And the Grukk model. And the AOBR model. Moar Warbosses. I want moar. With a megaboss.

I have resolved to put my blinders on to snagga stuff and grab a battlewagon with another box of nobs.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


You can thank marines and guys like Tau Coldstar commanders for setting the trend for limiting HQ choices for us.

I'd thank GW seeing as they wrote all three codexes. Still a lame rule, especially considering guys like Ghazghkull literally have multiple warbosses, to the point of literally having a formation called Council of the Waagh with, what, 3 Warbosses in it?

I like the classic Big Choppa Warboss model. And the Grukk model. And the AOBR model. Moar Warbosses. I want moar. With a megaboss.

Yeahhhhh, kinda stinks losing out on having a whole wrecking crew of warbosses.

I honestly don't really know where to go in terms of list building. I kind of want to try a Deffskullz buggy/mechanized list, but I'm not sure how to go about it with the specialist mobz being in rules limbo since they don't work RAW.

Take ghaz In Supreme command
And 2 other detachments for 3 warbosses
But I agree i feel like we have a half dozen choices for warbosses we can’t use
Including badrukk since he has a warboss keyword limits him
As does the named warboss on squig
Or both beast boss versions (foot and squig)
Plus the normal and mega warboss
Maybe even warboss on bike if Fw allows it

I guess the only thing I haven’t seen now is the wurrboy stats but I’m not expecting much.
We have seen the whole book and while we thought we had a decent codex artificial restrictions and poorly thought out rules In How to use it hurts the book immensely

 Grimskul wrote:

You can thank marines and guys like Tau Coldstar commanders for setting the trend for limiting HQ choices for us.

And Death Guard, and Sisters of Battle, and Genestealer Cults. At this point I think it is easier to count which factions aren't limited in HQ.

 Tyran wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

You can thank marines and guys like Tau Coldstar commanders for setting the trend for limiting HQ choices for us.

And Death Guard, and Sisters of Battle, and Genestealer Cults. At this point I think it is easier to count which factions aren't limited in HQ.

GSC hardly abused their characters, there was a short time when double magus detachments were a popular thing to bring alongside a Tyranid army, but they never had a "broken" spammable character like what's being discussed.

RedNoak wrote:
btw.. quick math on the dakkajet:
8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36", BS 4+
-> 9 hits or 14,5 points per hit

9TH:
120points 24 shots 36", 36 shots 18", BS5+
-> 8 hits or 15 points per hit at 36", 12 hits or 10 points per hit at 18"

so got slightly worse at full distance, better at half distance, 10pts cheaper... well, in kontext of this codex that is phenomenal, in context of powercreep and the fact it wasnt really fielded before in 8th... It's not gud.


EDIT:
damn, i forgot dakkadakkadakka -.-

so it would be
8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36" range, BS 4+
-> 10,5 hits or 12 points per hit

so it basically got worse at full range and miniscule better at half range... oh my frikkin god, i cant handle this gak anymore....

No absolutely true. Make him Bad Moons (which is generaly pretty cool option for Heavy and Dakka weapons vehicles) and get better AP by one and better half range. With its speed, you will mostly fire the dakka range. And with the speedwaagh you have 42 shots (14 hits) 6/-3/1.

Flash gits are not clan locked anymore so at least they get affected by as +1 auras and abilities now. And a culture ability

You can put some in a big ead base. Deep strike it and because the big EAD base has a special remaining stationary rule for embarked units they won't get -1on heavy weapons

 Tomsug wrote:
Waaaagh and Speedwaaahg are another example. Make an ork rule about one masive warboss warcry per game and do not make mandatory to really warcry loudly around the table and make mandatory for all other ork players in the room to repat the warcry…. I call it epicly lost opportunity.

Well, the rule actually used to be like that. You gotta be careful with that though. I'm pretty much an ork in RL as well, so once when I declared my Waaagh! at the top of my lounges at a store, I made a kid dive under the table. The poor lad hurt himself since he essentially dove into a pile of cases and bags and almost knocked over the table in the process

I've stopped doing that since then

-disregsrd it, there's no -1 to damage wt

Wait, it does not say that specialist mobs lose Clan keyword, they just don't get Kultur bonuses. So a trukkboy mob can actually ride a trukk, unless I misunderstand something.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
He's also not deathskullz locked anymore since hes in that list of exceptions.
He wont have a 5++ against mortals or get 1 reroll hit or wound.... oh no im really upset about that lol

He was damn near autotake before but kultures usually got in the way. Theyre not in the way now. Muhahaha.

He's also lost the obj sec ability if it's not a Deathskulls anymore. In 8th he was definitely worth his +25 points compared to a standard painboy.

At the moment conisidering how bad ork stratagems are I'm toying with a list consisting in a spearhead and an outrider deatchments. I'd start with 6 CPs + 1/turn which should be enough, but at least I'd have 8 FA and 8 HS and I could bring single buggies and single mek gunz this way.

 JawRippa wrote:
Wait, it does not say that specialist mobs lose Clan keyword, they just don't get Kultur bonuses. So a trukkboy mob can actually ride a trukk, unless I misunderstand something.

Spoiler:

https://i.imgur.com/2XseqQA.jpg

It literally says replace the clan keyword in the block text
That means they can't get in truks

Okay, I know most people don't care about this particular pet peeve of mine but now it's confirmed. A power stabba is 5 points and its stats are unchanged.

The S: User AP-2 D1 costs the same as a powersword which is S+1 AP-3 D1, but fine different codex and all that. A big choppa is S+2 AP-1 D2, and those are 3 points. 2 points less! WTF GW? How can you possibly think this is an enticing statline in any type of scenario?

Real shame. This is modern Necromunda tier of rulewriting.

Also if Dakka type is just a bootleg Rapid fire with no way to advance and shoot, then the codex is not only boring, but also goes against orky way of fighting (advance to krump, shoot something on the go). Why not just give it rapid fire at this stage? Would 6 shots BShootas really be that overpowered?

Dakka should have been a combination of assault and rapid fire. Seems like whoever was designing the codex was really overvaluing Toughness 5 on infantry.

I think we can all agree that this will be errataed eventually.
So until it is done and we know the true rules for the specialist mob units, better simply ignore the specialist mob and focus on the rest of the new codex...

Hey Snikrot's trait is Kunnin but brutal, instead of 'I've got a plan ladz'. That's...interesting. (I am trying to make a okayish list of blood axes, that s why,. But it is a bit too early to talk about list ideas and such)

Is it still possible to use saga of the beast psykic powers or does this new codex replace these?

Does saga of the beast simply become an ob as obsolete book like the 8th edition codex ?

Almost full dex
https://imgur.com/a/GI7nqNO


Automatically Appended Next Post:
45 goff storm boyz with zag are a must, it seems

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Also cultists arent denied literally every single rule their army has. Grots get nothing, not even a subkulture anymore.

Well, for DG they are (no obsec, no stratagems, limited by the number of actual marines you take) and it's safe to assume that it will be the same for TS and CSM when their codices come out.
Gretchin got off easy in comparison, but I agree that the incentive to take any is very low.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:
btw.. quick math on the dakkajet:

Spoiler:

8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36", BS 4+
-> 9 hits or 14,5 points per hit

9TH:
120points 24 shots 36", 36 shots 18", BS5+
-> 8 hits or 15 points per hit at 36", 12 hits or 10 points per hit at 18"

so got slightly worse at full distance, better at half distance, 10pts cheaper... well, in kontext of this codex that is phenomenal, in context of powercreep and the fact it wasnt really fielded before in 8th... It's not gud.


EDIT:
damn, i forgot dakkadakkadakka -.-

so it would be
8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36" range, BS 4+
-> 10,5 hits or 12 points per hit

so it basically got worse at full range and miniscule better at half range... oh my frikkin god, i cant handle this gak anymore....

Dakkajet in old codex is 170 points with six shootas. It dropped by 50 points, got ramshackle and got better at 18" which is super easy to archive for them. You can also split fire now, which is very helpful against stuff like guardsmen or drukhari infantry that dies in droves against S6 AP-1 shots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
He's also not deathskullz locked anymore since hes in that list of exceptions.
He wont have a 5++ against mortals or get 1 reroll hit or wound.... oh no im really upset about that lol

He was damn near autotake before but kultures usually got in the way. Theyre not in the way now. Muhahaha.

He kept his 5+ FNP and there is nothing preventing you from taking it against mortals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
I'd thank GW seeing as they wrote all three codexes. Still a lame rule, especially considering guys like Ghazghkull literally have multiple warbosses, to the point of literally having a formation called Council of the Waagh with, what, 3 Warbosses in it?

He had two leftennunts. I actually ran the formation a few times, because if you are going to lose anyways, you can at least do it while having fun. IMO there is little reason to not bring an double patrols for 2 CP instead of a battalion, so if you put Thrakka into the supreme command detachment you can easily have three warbosses at 2k with enough slots to add a weirdboy, big mek, mad dok and some nobz to reform the Council of da Waaagh!, with Makari as a brand new member. Since Thrakka is a MONSTER he even protects all others from being shot, hilariously making the whole thing better than it ever was in 7th.

The only real headscratcher is the pain boss. Since he is a WARBOSS, he is pretty much dead on arrival, as there is literally no reason to ever take him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
Okay, I know most people don't care about this particular pet peeve of mine but now it's confirmed. A power stabba is 5 points and its stats are unchanged.

The S: User AP-2 D1 costs the same as a powersword which is S+1 AP-3 D1, but fine different codex and all that. A big choppa is S+2 AP-1 D2, and those are 3 points. 2 points less! WTF GW? How can you possibly think this is an enticing statline in any type of scenario?

I don't have any power stabba nobz because I converted them all to 'urty syringes...

Delete

Jidmah wrote:
The only real headscratcher is the pain boss. Since he is a WARBOSS, he is pretty much dead on arrival, as there is literally no reason to ever take him.

Is the Painboss a warboss?He has the <painboss> keyword but I hadn't realised any restrictions extended to that keyword as well?

addnid wrote:I guess a bad moon kill rig could receive the bad moon WL trait for 1 CP, and get a 2+/4++ ? I didn't see any rule preventing a vehicule to be given a WLT... What do you guys think ? On reddit a guy says "Sadly vehicles can't get relics unless stated other wise, and the WL trait has to be specific for the Kill Rig :/" Is that dude right ?

The kill rig can't take any relics unless specified and is restricted to the beastgob WT if given one, per page 51. You should be able to give it the rezmekkas redder paint relic since that one works on vehicles (assuming you're willing to bring evil sunz)..

PiñaColada wrote:

Jidmah wrote:
The only real headscratcher is the pain boss. Since he is a WARBOSS, he is pretty much dead on arrival, as there is literally no reason to ever take him.

Is the Painboss a warboss?He has the <painboss> keyword but I hadn't realised any restrictions extended to that keyword as well?

addnid wrote:I guess a bad moon kill rig could receive the bad moon WL trait for 1 CP, and get a 2+/4++ ? I didn't see any rule preventing a vehicule to be given a WLT... What do you guys think ? On reddit a guy says "Sadly vehicles can't get relics unless stated other wise, and the WL trait has to be specific for the Kill Rig :/" Is that dude right ?

The kill rig can't take any relics unless specified and is restricted to the beastgob WT if given one, per page 51. You should be able to give it the rezmekkas redder paint relic since that one works on vehicles (assuming you're willing to bring evil sunz)..

indeed, i just saw that :( IMHO it is too vulnerable to anti tank hits for 190 points

 Jidmah wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Also cultists arent denied literally every single rule their army has. Grots get nothing, not even a subkulture anymore.

Well, for DG they are (no obsec, no stratagems, limited by the number of actual marines you take) and it's safe to assume that it will be the same for TS and CSM when their codices come out.
Gretchin got off easy in comparison, but I agree that the incentive to take any is very low.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:
btw.. quick math on the dakkajet:

Spoiler:

8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36", BS 4+
-> 9 hits or 14,5 points per hit

9TH:
120points 24 shots 36", 36 shots 18", BS5+
-> 8 hits or 15 points per hit at 36", 12 hits or 10 points per hit at 18"

so got slightly worse at full distance, better at half distance, 10pts cheaper... well, in kontext of this codex that is phenomenal, in context of powercreep and the fact it wasnt really fielded before in 8th... It's not gud.


EDIT:
damn, i forgot dakkadakkadakka -.-

so it would be
8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36" range, BS 4+
-> 10,5 hits or 12 points per hit

so it basically got worse at full range and miniscule better at half range... oh my frikkin god, i cant handle this gak anymore....

Dakkajet in old codex is 170 points with six shootas. It dropped by 50 points, got ramshackle and got better at 18" which is super easy to archive for them. You can also split fire now, which is very helpful against stuff like guardsmen or drukhari infantry that dies in droves against S6 AP-1 shots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
He's also not deathskullz locked anymore since hes in that list of exceptions.
He wont have a 5++ against mortals or get 1 reroll hit or wound.... oh no im really upset about that lol

He was damn near autotake before but kultures usually got in the way. Theyre not in the way now. Muhahaha.

He kept his 5+ FNP and there is nothing preventing you from taking it against mortals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
I'd thank GW seeing as they wrote all three codexes. Still a lame rule, especially considering guys like Ghazghkull literally have multiple warbosses, to the point of literally having a formation called Council of the Waagh with, what, 3 Warbosses in it?

He had two leftennunts. I actually ran the formation a few times, because if you are going to lose anyways, you can at least do it while having fun. IMO there is little reason to not bring an double patrols for 2 CP instead of a battalion, so if you put Thrakka into the supreme command detachment you can easily have three warbosses at 2k with enough slots to add a weirdboy, big mek, mad dok and some nobz to reform the Council of da Waaagh!, with Makari as a brand new member. Since Thrakka is a MONSTER he even protects all others from being shot, hilariously making the whole thing better than it ever was in 7th.

The only real headscratcher is the pain boss. Since he is a WARBOSS, he is pretty much dead on arrival, as there is literally no reason to ever take him.

Well at the least its a good stand in for a painboy, because I hate the stupid painboy model

I still think the kill rig is great at 190 points, it's just all the pearl clutchers trying to get it to primarch level and then crying about it being insanely OP that are going to be disappointed. It's fairly durable at W16 T8 3+/6++ and ramshackle, doesn't degrade too bad and is a psyker with access to a decent psychic discipline. Also, anything that brings an autohitting weapon in the ork 'dex is always worth a second look IMO