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Ok I think I am going to be sick. I am starting to wish they had left us with our old codex honestly.

 warhead01 wrote:
The KFF stratagem "problem" wouldn't be so bad if that mek had something productive to do after the KFF burned out aside from fix vehicels and if it wasn't the only KFF. I again wish twe could put that shinny shoota on a basic KFF Mek, or give him something worth the trouble.
I'd leave him on the home objective or something.

Why does GW hate Orks so much.

Because for some reason we inherently have to have downsides for the abilities that other armies have baseline and don't have to worry about. It gives me WFB vibes of how OnG were the only faction that had to deal with Animosity type rules on top of generally average to poor leadership.

I swear that most of the Ork players on this thread could have done a better job at this point.

Lol so the painboss can't heal non beast snaggas except <clan> bikers who he can't keep up with anyway ....

I still can’t believe how low this blow is, even for fething GW… I agree with the fact that this strat should have been 0 cp, or if kff was 6++ within 9’ and not 6’
And the fact that we were leaked only part of the text makes it so much worse…

MrStressy wrote:
Because orks having a KFF was the thing that broke the game balance right guys...right ?...

Yes exactly! I mean have you seen the T5 on our units?? How would a 6++ be fair on a T5 troop unit? Next youll tell me that 30pts isnt a fair price for the KFF...

 addnid wrote:
I still can’t believe how low this blow is, even for fething GW… I agree with the fact that this strat should have been 0 cp, or if kff was 6++ within 9’ and not 6’
And the fact that we were leaked only part of the text makes it so much worse…

That is pretty bad. It's the same crap they pulled with the Resurrection Orb. 30 points for a one use item is just bad.

MrStressy wrote:
Because orks having a KFF was the thing that broke the game balance right guys...right ?...

The issue is/was that the KFF was an auto-take not that it was OP or broken.

To be honest I wasn't the biggest fan of the KFF being an auto take.

BUT they really hit it with the nerfhammer and then salted that wound with the expensive self destruct stratagem no one will ever take

Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

 GoldenHorde wrote:

MrStressy wrote:
Because orks having a KFF was the thing that broke the game balance right guys...right ?...

The issue is/was that the KFF was an auto-take not that it was OP or broken.

To be honest I wasn't the biggest fan of the KFF being an auto take.

BUT they really hit it with the nerfhammer and then salted that wound with the expensive self destruct stratagem no one will ever take

It wasn't all that auto-take either depending on the type of list you used in 8th ed. It was somewhat redundant in a buggy list, needing a Morkanaut or Wazbom Blastajet to really get a radius wide enough to actually project against your buggies which was also usually unnecessary with the baseline deffskull 6++ save. It was more useful for Green Tide based lists and supporting Mek Gun batteries.

Either way, GW went about the wrong way about this completely and the KFF may as well be a non-option at this point. The fact that the KFF explodey strat is taking up space for something that could be more impactful is what makes this so much more frustrating.

KFF wasn’t an autotake, and the end of our glory days of 8th many top players didn’t even take it anymore. The native 6++ from deathskulls was enough.

I don’t see any logic to this, aside from wanting us to buy beastsnaggas who have an inbuilt 6++

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

And what exactly would that be? In an edition where cover is almost impossible to give most Ork boyz units (assuming you weren't going MSU) and a 5+ armour save is effectively nothing against the plethora of AP-1 and AP-2 weaponry, this is the only save Orks will usually get. It's not like you get it for free.

I also agree with the "that strat should cost 0 cp" because the real cost is your equipment being broken. 2 CP is just adding insult to the injury.

Wonder how it would be going if the space marine stormshield was released with a 5++ and a strat at 2 CP for a 4++ a the shield shutting down right after. Or same thing with the Riptide...

GW shops burning...GW shops burning everywhere...

 Grimskul wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

MrStressy wrote:
Because orks having a KFF was the thing that broke the game balance right guys...right ?...

The issue is/was that the KFF was an auto-take not that it was OP or broken.

To be honest I wasn't the biggest fan of the KFF being an auto take.

BUT they really hit it with the nerfhammer and then salted that wound with the expensive self destruct stratagem no one will ever take

It wasn't all that auto-take either depending on the type of list you used in 8th ed. It was somewhat redundant in a buggy list, needing a Morkanaut or Wazbom Blastajet to really get a radius wide enough to actually project against your buggies which was also usually unnecessary with the baseline deffskull 6++ save. It was more useful for Green Tide based lists and supporting Mek Gun batteries.

Either way, GW went about the wrong way about this completely and the KFF may as well be a non-option at this point. The fact that the KFF explodey strat is taking up space for something that could be more impactful is what makes this so much more frustrating.

I mean, I'm still running a KFF big mek in mega armor with the kustom weapons KJ because the Mek is good without the KFF and I'd rather spend 30 pts for a 6++ with a 6" aura than 65 points for a 6+++ with a 3" aura for the Goffs horde that I plan on running. I think your gripes are more with the regular big mek with KFF rather than the KFF itself.

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

Competitive?

 Grimskul wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

And what exactly would that be? In an edition where cover is almost impossible to give most Ork boyz units (assuming you weren't going MSU) and a 5+ armour save is effectively nothing against the plethora of AP-1 and AP-2 weaponry, this is the only save Orks will usually get. It's not like you get it for free.

It's that orks have always been tough but never a really armoured force. I think the infantry wide T5 buff still edges out the KFF nerf at least for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

Competitive?

Boyz not a competitive choice ?
You're playing the wrong faction if you want armour saves on your core unit


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

Competitive?

Take a look at your own poll to start...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/799811.page

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

And what exactly would that be? In an edition where cover is almost impossible to give most Ork boyz units (assuming you weren't going MSU) and a 5+ armour save is effectively nothing against the plethora of AP-1 and AP-2 weaponry, this is the only save Orks will usually get. It's not like you get it for free.

It's that orks have always been tough but never a really armoured force. I think the infantry wide T5 buff still edges out the KFF nerf at least for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

Competitive?

Boyz not a competitive choice ?
You're playing the wrong faction if you want armour saves on your core unit

That's the thing though. We're not passing saves on a 3+ or 2+, we were passing on a 5++, which isn't exactly something that is "armoured". Would you call Chaos Daemons an armoured force? Keep in mind this invuln is limited to shooting only and range dependent, not to mention aura based which can be shut off by several abilities.

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

And what exactly would that be? In an edition where cover is almost impossible to give most Ork boyz units (assuming you weren't going MSU) and a 5+ armour save is effectively nothing against the plethora of AP-1 and AP-2 weaponry, this is the only save Orks will usually get. It's not like you get it for free.

It's that orks have always been tough but never a really armoured force. I think the infantry wide T5 buff still edges out the KFF nerf at least for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

Competitive?

Boyz not a competitive choice ?
You're playing the wrong faction if you want armour saves on your core unit


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Its also the only thing giving any survivability to orks

Yes, but the KFF was always an attempt to make your run of the mill Ork infantry something they were not.

Competitive?

Take a look at your own poll to start...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/799811.page

People were banking on trukk boys in that poll… with the actual rules out now a single trukk boy unit will be decent but I’m not sure what will be my second troop.

I have to admit, I see why GW doesnt want KFF to be a mainstain in orks armies and lists. The horde of footsloging meele infantry with 5++ are demons, not orks.

 Galas wrote:
I have to admit, I see why GW doesnt want KFF to be a mainstain in orks armies and lists. The horde of footsloging meele infantry with 5++ are demons, not orks.

The funny part is that Daemons don't even do that with their current army. They're mainly soup/monster spam at the moment. Frankly they clearly don't want hordes of most types at all (barring outliers like skitarii for some reason), given how they changed mob rule, took away the attack buff from mobz of 20+. If that's the case, at least make the KFF functional, I'd take a -1S from enemy ranged attacks aura buff, at least it'd synergize with our new ramshackle more.

 addnid wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah i dont see myself ever using that unless i desperately needed a unit to not die that turn.

Assuming they dont immediately faq it to once again go "Oops we forgot to say its shooting only" that 5++ does apply in melee.

I don’t think you lose the KFF after using the strat, you guys are overinterpreting what is written. You get 5++ against shooting then it goes back to being a regular kff

It literally says twice, you cannot use the KFF for the rest of the battle. Then it says you cannot use the strategem for the rest of the battle.

It could not be more explicit. The KFF dies after you use the strategem.

Has the KFF thing already been erratad on the digital version? Im looking at a compilation and it doesnt say thing bout oneturn use or that it blows up.

Maybe there is a good use for the FKK + strat.
What about trying to tellyport a Big Mek in with maybe 60 or 90 storm boys all landing near him the timing is difficult the strat works on the other player turn, so I guess that's at least that 6++ for the overwatch and in close combat for a big chunk of Orks then turn on the strat the next turn? But try to get everything ready to charge and also call da WAAAGH. If it can be done that might be the ballgame right there.
If the KFF is disposable now then maybe throwing it at the enemy is a good way to use it?
I'm really trying to figure out a good use for it.

I like that the Deff Kopptas get that big bomb again and the blast will hit more than 1 unit now.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Has the KFF thing already been erratad on the digital version? Im looking at a compilation and it doesnt say thing bout oneturn use or that it blows up.

That image looks like it is cut off
And considering the actual book scans show the full rule.. I wouldn’t go by the half app screenshot.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Has the KFF thing already been erratad on the digital version? Im looking at a compilation and it doesnt say thing bout oneturn use or that it blows up.

I think it's a coin flip as to whether the digital version or the print version are filled with more mistakes at this point. Who knows.

Both of them have obvious errors. But regardless, the print one well....it went to print. That means somebody proofread it and it passed the testing phase to production to the point of being physically in a person's hands. I'd trust a complete ruleset over a poor copy that may have been made a few weeks or months after the final drafts went out to production. The digital version seems like a bad backup transcription.

But there's a good chance of things being FAQ'd, for example, the digital version doesn't say anything about a limit on the number of specialist mobs, and it doesn't explicitly say that you remove the clan keyword, so it's possible it includes an errata that the print version doesn't have that somebody noticed somewhere down the pipeline and deliberately edited out.

Conversely, the print version seems better written and more coherent, and if someone is explicitly defining what you can't do, it suggests greater intent.

KFF has always been autotake because it solved a fundamental flaw in our army: we have no save to speak of.
What few things do have a proper save are not in large enough numbers to overwhelm the high AP out there.

KFF remedied that to a degree because of invul saves, at the cost of an HQ slot and somewhat restricting movement. Or in ancient times, a cover save which was effectively the same thing back then but had the potential to get countered via Ignores Cover.

You dont solve an autotake problem by simply removing it essentially, you fix why it was auto take to begin with. Especially a DEFENSIVE auto take, offensive ones could easily just be considered too good for the price but a defensive one could (and was) easily our only real option for defense, even more so when cover got jacked up from static saves to +1 and affected by AP for some dumb reason.

That strat should either not blow up the KFF or be free. Fething insult.

I would be fine about the KFF being garbage if I didn't feel obligated to take a second HQ that wasn't a warboss to fill out a minimum slot battalion.

Other than picking a Painboss or Zagstrukk I don't know what else would be a good option.

It's Big Mek, Big Mek, Big Mek, Weird Boy, Wurrboy, Painboss, then named characters. That's it. There's so few selections once you pick one of the half dozen varieties of warboss.

I guess you could just take the MA Big Mek without the KFF since it's kind of trash and save 30 points. I just would rather take another warboss. Or a Painboss, if that wasn't snagga only on the heal.

meh, codex is bland with the new dlc being the better picks.


I'm kinda disappointed with this release.

 TedNugent wrote:
I would be fine about the KFF being garbage if I didn't feel obligated to take a second HQ that wasn't a warboss to fill out a minimum slot battalion.

Other than picking a Painboss or Zagstrukk I don't know what else would be a good option.

It's Big Mek, Big Mek, Big Mek, Weird Boy, Wurrboy, Painboss, then named characters. That's it. There's so few selections once you pick one of the half dozen varieties of warboss.

I guess you could just take the MA Big Mek without the KFF since it's kind of trash and save 30 points. I just would rather take another warboss. Or a Painboss, if that wasn't snagga only on the heal.

Yeah, bizarrely, even though we got "more" HQ's this time around with the codex, our HQ selection still isn't so hot. Painbosses only working with Snaggas and having inferior gear to Painboyz makes no sense. MA Big Mek is way more worth it than the regular Big Mek with KFF is now. The MA Warboss or even Warboss on Warbike is a lot better than the one on Foot, I don't see why you'd take him now. It's kind of all over the place.

I think beastboss should not have a warlord keyword but instead beastboss keyword and I think beastboss should be allowed to call a Waagh and the restriction should be only 1 of each warboss, beastboss and speedboss.

In the ork hierarchy it should be ghaz, warboss, beastboss/speedboss/boss snikrot/boss zagstrukk/kaptain badrukk, bigmek/painboss, Nobs/painboy/Mek, boyz, Gretchin

I’m fine with only choosing 1 of each
1 warboss or warboss in mega armor,
1 beastboss or beastboss on squig or mozgrod
1 deffkiller wartrike or warboss on bike

And the specialist bosses should not conflict with the actual warboss or beastboss or speed boss. So zagstrukk, snikrot, badrukk, maddoc/painboss, big Mek should not be limited.