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I'm thinking of taking buggies in pairs. That way there shouldn't be too much of a roadblock when they're whizzing around, and they have a decent chance of not wiping themselves out to morale in most cases.

Or do I just double down on koptas

TBF, is tabling GSC right now not just beating a cripple at this point Zompa?

 Jidmah wrote:

I disagree. Extra CP are always mean extra options and tricks you can pull, even if it's just re-rolling dice and firing overwatch. The stratagem to pick up units and place them into reserves also can be quite valuable as it allows you to hide wounded units, and threaten the enemy backfield and objectives. It's essentially da jump as a stratagem.
Lastly, the warlord trait allows you to get 3 tellportas for just 1 CP, plus you get to play mind games while doing so.

.

The stratagem isn't quit as good as da jump. Da jump obviously happens in 1 turn but the strat happens over 2 turns meaning you miss a round of shooting or combat. Because it uses strategic reserves it has to be placed along the battlefield edge. But not the enemies battlefield edge. So it can't threaten the back line very much. I often find it difficult to deploy 9" away from the be enemy units in these circumstances.

However. You can deploy in your own battlefield edge within engagement range of enemy models if every model is within 1" of the edge. This counts as a charge. Useful against an opponent s who think they are being clever dropping or moving flying bikes to the back lol

Zompa wrote:
I may be exagerating but 750 points of deffkoptas really feel like an auto-take in any kind of list. Their free deepstrike combined with Ramming Speed! after popping 10d3 rokkits and an obscene amount of attacks once they collides, especially during a whaag! is hard to beat

Are koptas really that good? I was worried for 50 points they seem a little squishy, just dead the next turn, glass cannon style. Does the single volley of rockets make up for this, did you do enough damage to justify them?

Commissar Yarrork wrote:

Zompa wrote:
I may be exagerating but 750 points of deffkoptas really feel like an auto-take in any kind of list. Their free deepstrike combined with Ramming Speed! after popping 10d3 rokkits and an obscene amount of attacks once they collides, especially during a whaag! is hard to beat

Are koptas really that good? I was worried for 50 points they seem a little squishy, just dead the next turn, glass cannon style. Does the single volley of rockets make up for this, did you do enough damage to justify them?

I think, gsc are kinda predestined to not like koptas, fast, deepstrike, a gakton of attacks ontop of it and lots of squishy vehicles which will get pretty easily destroyed with rockits all but guarantee a bad time. They are also an excellent way of allowing you to defeat the average GSC list in detail if the player makes a mistake. Otoh GSC either has heavy AT or anti horde weaponry, and both are underwhelming against a T5 4W model

Man, what relics can you even give to a deffkilla wartrike? Are mastercrafted weapons still a thing? A Dmg 3 snagga klaw might be a decent way to spend a CP, especially if he's buffed up to S8 by might is right..

Im almost sure it's about to get nerfed, but the ramming MWs from the Sceapjets are insane.
On average you make the same number of Mortal wounds as there are models, so you basically whipe out any 1 LP squad just with the charge and kill 1/2 of any 2 wound infantry.
But you need 3 single scrapjets because the ramming is per unit not per model.

Quad Mega Blasta Deffdread with kustom job is 135 points but 12 shots on average sounds quite cool as well.

Same for 5-6 Deffkoptas with rokkits, that's some serious firepower. Not sure if I prefer them as ES for fire and fade or BM for some extra dakka.
Not to mention getting 2 turns of Waaagh on top of that, the combination of heavy weapons and vehicle Keyword opens up a few good buffs.


And I was thinking about the best way to spam MW.
15 Goff Burnas with the MW Kustom job are 180 points, but if you stack some buffs on them (+1 to hit, exploding 5s, Ghazzis full reroll, Warpath, Waaagh, -2 AP strat) you will get 10+ MWs and 30+ AP-2 wounds against T4.
Quite an investment but might be a fun thing to try.
Have I missed anything to reroll wounds on them?


And about Trukkboys / nobs, you can still get 3 of them if you go for 1-2 patrol and 1-2 outrider detachments.
Fast attack slots are gonna be so damn crowded.
Combined with follow me lads, Stormboys, Commandos, Bikes, porting boys, trukk meganobs you should get off quite a good amount of charges.
Some squig riders on top + 3 Warlords and we have most of our army in close combat in turn 1-2.


I have to say after my first disappointment with the overall codex there are still some cool things we can pull off.
Might not be a top tier Codex but there are some neat combinations I look forward to try.

Not Online!!! wrote:
TBF, is tabling GSC right now not just beating a cripple at this point Zompa?

Sure, that's why I pointed that out.

But the damage output is still there, Nobz erasing abominations was still a nice checkmark for punchiness while Deffkoptas ate the Goliaths like it was nothing.

Iron Hands Redemptor dreadnoughts would surely be a tighter check.

Also GSC is tricky beacuse it's another glass cannon army with "sneakier" deployment options.

Commissar Yarrork790345 11180458 null wrote:Are koptas really that good?

That single volly is still 20 rokkits on average. Also you can pop the SPEEDFREAKS strat for -1 to Hit on top of Ramshackle. And as said, you can just keep them in the sky to drop them T2 and RAMMING SPEED some poor infantry unit.

250 points for 10d3 Rokkit shots and a solid charge with 30/45 attacks BEFORE klan tricks/bonuses is an auto take IMHO, the only issue being if three squads are an overkill

PiñaColada wrote:
Man, what relics can you even give to a deffkilla wartrike? Are mastercrafted weapons still a thing? A Dmg 3 snagga klaw might be a decent way to spend a CP, especially if he's buffed up to S8 by might is right..

I think only the evil suns and freeboota relics are worth taking. Goff, bloodaxe and snakebite work in theory, but they are better used on other models.

It has access to a number of good warlord traits though, which is important since it need to be your warlord to call a Speed Waaagh!.

Zompa wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
TBF, is tabling GSC right now not just beating a cripple at this point Zompa?

Sure, that's why I pointed that out.

But the damage output is still there, Nobz erasing abominations was still a nice checkmark for punchiness while Deffkoptas ate the Goliaths like it was nothing.

Iron Hands Redemptor dreadnoughts would surely be a tighter check.

Also GSC is tricky beacuse it's another glass cannon army with "sneakier" deployment options.

I don't think so.. mind my gsc experience is not competitive, but frankly i don't see much options GSC have against orks. T5 severly reduced their effectivity against orks overall.
Aberrants are also overpriced by nearly double a Nob in pts with worse equipment and statline.

Are ~20 Rokkit shots really that powerful?
That's still only 6-7 hits

Zompa wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
TBF, is tabling GSC right now not just beating a cripple at this point Zompa?

Sure, that's why I pointed that out.

But the damage output is still there, Nobz erasing abominations was still a nice checkmark for punchiness while Deffkoptas ate the Goliaths like it was nothing.

Iron Hands Redemptor dreadnoughts would surely be a tighter check.

Also GSC is tricky beacuse it's another glass cannon army with "sneakier" deployment options.

Commissar Yarrork790345 11180458 null wrote:Are koptas really that good?

That single volly is still 20 rokkits on average. Also you can pop the SPEEDFREAKS strat for -1 to Hit on top of Ramshackle. And as said, you can just keep them in the sky to drop them T2 and RAMMING SPEED some poor infantry unit.

250 points for 10d3 Rokkit shots and a solid charge with 30/45 attacks BEFORE klan tricks/bonuses is an auto take IMHO, the only issue being if three squads are an overkill

Stupid question, but we all agree that the -1 to hit strat "cloud of smoke" applies also to the unit on which you pop the strat ? Not just those within 6 ? (in short, it doesn counts itself as within 6 ? seems like an even more stupid question now...)

Zompa wrote:
That single volly is still 20 rokkits on average. Also you can pop the SPEEDFREAKS strat for -1 to Hit on top of Ramshackle. And as said, you can just keep them in the sky to drop them T2 and RAMMING SPEED some poor infantry unit.

250 points for 10d3 Rokkit shots and a solid charge with 30/45 attacks BEFORE klan tricks/bonuses is an auto take IMHO, the only issue being if three squads are an overkill

idk

20 rokkits is 6 hits is 5 wounds against T3/T4 is 3 kills against 3+.

vs T7 vehicles that's 4 wounds is 9 damage against 3+ that might only cost 70 points.

vs T8 vehicles that's 3 wounds is 6 damage against 3+.

On a 250 point unit that's not very impressive.

They're definitely still good in melee but I'm just not impressed with the rokkits.

Even then, against MEQ, the melee is 30 attacks is 20 hits is 13 wounds is 6 damage, 3 dead marines.

 addnid wrote:

Stupid question, but we all agree that the -1 to hit strat "cloud of smoke" applies also to the unit on which you pop the strat ? Not just those within 6 ? (in short, it doesn counts itself as within 6 ? seems like an even more stupid question now...)

It doesn't say "another friendly unit" but "a friendly unit" so yeah, it works. Just like sm captains gave reroll 1s to themselves and warbosses could run and charge.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
They're badly missing a slot for "Undaboss", a Lt-like character for 40-50 pts that's like a Warboss with 1 less wound, attack, and that can't use Waaagh … a Jr.command model for small games and that can be a subordinate sort in larger ones.

There's a *remote* chance that we'll see one in a "Second wave" or new Ork models, but I don't think it'll happen, which is … painful.

That HQ slot is *painful* right now.

A Lefftenunt or Big Boss would be a cool addition.

Yeah, would be a great idea for a new.....codex

Never mind, just remove the 0-1 and we'll be good, thank you.

So, do passengers get speed waagh benefits?

Now that transports are a thing again, what are thoughts on using a battlewagon as opposed to a trukk.

BW with a rolla is 135 and has T7 with 16 wounds behind a 3+.

That's less than two Trukks and has double the transport capacity. Why not use this instead.

My problem with a Trukk is that it literally can't do anything other than tie up a unit in assault once down the board. It's nothing more than a box with wounds and some movement speed when embarked. Without Trukk Boyz being a rule and limited to one unit, why bother for a big shoota when I can get a deff rolla instead that will actually do work?

 koooaei wrote:
So, do passengers get speed waagh benefits?

It depends if the effect of speed waagh is counted as a modifier to ranged attacks, if it is then any transport with a ranged weapon should confer the same benefit to occupants (a weaponless transport potentially not counting as benefiting from the modifier).

Until clarified otherwise I would assume yes as there is no definition I'm aware of as to what a modifier is, so any changed stats seem reasonable.

Zompa wrote:

 addnid wrote:

Stupid question, but we all agree that the -1 to hit strat "cloud of smoke" applies also to the unit on which you pop the strat ? Not just those within 6 ? (in short, it doesn counts itself as within 6 ? seems like an even more stupid question now...)

It doesn't say "another friendly unit" but "a friendly unit" so yeah, it works. Just like sm captains gave reroll 1s to themselves and warbosses could run and charge.

Yep i was thinking along these lines too. Thanks !

 koooaei wrote:
So, do passengers get speed waagh benefits?

I believe they do due to a rare rule.

"9. If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

However as with most rare rule use, expect your opponents not to like it at all.

 Lysit wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So, do passengers get speed waagh benefits?

I believe they do due to a rare rule.

"9. If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

However as with most rare rule use, expect your opponents not to like it at all.

Where is that rule from?

 koooaei wrote:

Where is that rule from?

Core rules.

 Lysit wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Where is that rule from?

Core rules.

Oh, wow. But doesn't the speed waagh rule say you must be vehicle to receive the bonus?

 koooaei wrote:
So, do passengers get speed waagh benefits?

From the BRB FAQ, these are the relevant rules:

]7. Any abilities (including Detachment abilities) that models in
an embarked unit have, or that their weapons have, continue to
apply when they make ranged attacks.
9. If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its
ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls,
etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model
makes a ranged attack.

So, for 7 the models would be affected, but since they aren't BIKER or VEHICLE models, the only direct benefit is that they ignore the modifier for shooting assault weapons and advancing.
For 9, the AP is definitely a modifier to the transport's attacks, for the extra attack RAW I'd say no because it's not a modifier to the ranged attacks but to the model/weapons. It's not 100% clear though and could honestly go either way.

Feel free to take it to YMDC and turn it into a 10 page thread though

But it only applies when they make attack. And only for MODELS that are vehicles/bikers

PiñaColada wrote:
Man, what relics can you even give to a deffkilla wartrike? Are mastercrafted weapons still a thing? A Dmg 3 snagga klaw might be a decent way to spend a CP, especially if he's buffed up to S8 by might is right..

Each clan where you'd actually want a deffkilla gives you a solid relic you can take on one, thankfully. Banner from Freebootas or redder paint from evil sunz.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Im almost sure it's about to get nerfed, but the ramming MWs from the Sceapjets are insane.
On average you make the same number of Mortal wounds as there are models, so you basically whipe out any 1 LP squad just with the charge and kill 1/2 of any 2 wound infantry.
But you need 3 single scrapjets because the ramming is per unit not per model.

You're misreading the rule. You don't roll a dice for each model in the enemy unit. You roll a dice for each Scrapjet in your unit. It maxes out at 9 Mortal wounds

 Lysit wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So, do passengers get speed waagh benefits?

I believe they do due to a rare rule.

"9. If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

However as with most rare rule use, expect your opponents not to like it at all.

the thing about the transport rule is that the restrictions are also passed down to the embarked unit, not just +1's.
The restrictions are part of the modifier and also get passed down. So as the embarked models are not vehicles or bikers the answer is no for the most part.

But they would get the benefit of not suffering hit penalties for advancing are firing assault weapons

Will give it a try with a tripple Goff patrol this weekend:



Plan is to speed forward turn 1 with the warboss, meganobs and Boys running as Trukkboyz accompanied by the Waaaaghbanner. (Banner has to run besides his Trukk turn 1 or disembark turn 2 though.)
That's 20" + 3D6 for advancing and charging. And 18" + 2D6 for the Stormboys.
The 30 Boys get jumped with warpath and will follow the warboss with an 8" charge.

Ghazzi will try to keep up and maybe even reach some units with his Aura while the scrapjets zip around shooting and getting some charges turn 1-2 maybe.

Kommandos pop up on objectives midfield and the 30 gretchin will camp in my backyard.

Might get a nice Alpha strike with turn one + Waaagh, depends how I can hide the trukks and stormboys to survive if I go second.

Warboss and banner will try to overlap +1 to hit for 2+ Saw Nobs and otherwise will try to give most of the stuff a 2+ as well.

Any ideas to improve that list? Feels like a little a little thin on models even with 100+ bodies and 5 vehicles, but at least no kill secondary can score more than 10-13 points against that list.

 TedNugent wrote:
Now that transports are a thing again, what are thoughts on using a battlewagon as opposed to a trukk.

BW with a rolla is 135 and has T7 with 16 wounds behind a 3+.

That's less than two Trukks and has double the transport capacity. Why not use this instead.

My problem with a Trukk is that it literally can't do anything other than tie up a unit in assault once down the board. It's nothing more than a box with wounds and some movement speed when embarked. Without Trukk Boyz being a rule and limited to one unit, why bother for a big shoota when I can get a deff rolla instead that will actually do work?

Don' t forget the Big Trakk! Same slot like BW, but cheaper and faster. With two big shoota to actually kill the last guardsman