We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Rogerio134134**

What are everyone's thoughts on shokkjumpdragstas? I've got 3 of them painted up which I was using in deathskulls detachment previously to jump around getting engage in all fronts and doing decent damage with the re rolls. Now they seem much much worse than before with less damage output and unreliable jumping which was guaranteed before with the kustom job.

I will run them tonight and see how they do as evil suns before passing judgement, might be useful as a harassing unit on the flanks picking off isolated units and scoring engage etc

**koooaei**

I think they're the worst of the buggies ATM, to be honest. But they're still buggies, so, will be ok for tankhunting.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also can be used to tie your opponent down more easily than the other buggies due to 14 speed.

**Beardedragon**

koooaei wrote:
There are 2 more orks finishing 1 and 3 in a large tourney. Any info on them?

i might have info on the winning list as hes in my local gaming group.

There was a GT in Denmark a few days ago where he won, its probably that tournement you mean. I have the list in a messenger chat but copying is a bit difficult. i can try.

Winner should be someone called Mathias right? This was his list.

Spoiler:

**Jidmah**

Hah, I knew nobz on smasha squigs were awesome

**koooaei**

But why a wartrike warlord? He doesn't have a lot of vehicles to buff their shooting. Wouldn't a squigboss or at least a fw bikerboss be a better candidate for regular waaagh?

**Scactha**

Probably Rezmekka's Paint - it´s a melee army after all.

**koooaei**

Scactha wrote:
Probably Rezmekka's Paint - it´s a melee army after all.

But you can still take it and just have your bikerboss as a warlord...

**Beardedragon**

koooaei wrote:
Scactha wrote:
Probably Rezmekka's Paint - it´s a melee army after all.

But you can still take it and just have your bikerboss as a warlord...

to be fair your warboss on warbike should also be a speed boss. Im fairly confident he will keep the speedboss keyword and lose warboss.
I talked to him about why he had da jump on a psyker that only had 1 infantry core model he could da jump in his evil sunz klan. Given that its Klan Locked now.

He said he only got off 3 powers during his entire tournement and those were Fist of gork.

I kind of get the feeling he forgot that da jump was klan locked, because if one would remember that, the weirdboy shouldnt be in that klan with such few core. Alternatively to putting him in another detatchment he could have taken something else but da jump.

Da Jump made no sense on his weirdboy in that evil sunz detatchment.

Furthermore, i asked him why he took the killchoppa on the warboss on warbike rather than da killa klaw, and he wanted the mortal wounds he said. Im unsure if i agree with that statement. even with brutal but kunning each wound roll of 6 would only grant 1 extra MW, where as going da killa klaw would give him flat 3 damage over the normal kill choppas 2. I would deem da killa klaw surperior if you happen to rock a powerklaw. Kill choppa could be thrown on maybe a nob on smasha squig instead

**kingbbobb**

There are many aspects to that list I don't understand. What's Makari there for?

**koooaei**

It's interesting to see what he was facing.

**Beardedragon**

No idea. he dont heal without ghazzy.

Maybe a cheap HQ tax for the patrol?

Or maybe he forgot he couldnt heal without ghazzy.

Im generally just surprised that he won as his skills were never what i would determine as "winning a GT" level.

I have not fought him before, but ive seen him play. Im not directly impressed. In fact im fairly confident my best ork list would beat his best ork list in previous edition and that my own skills were equal to or better than his, and i have only played warhammer 40k for a year now with around 60 or 70 games so far.

**kingbbobb**

Oh wait he is using the grot shield trick/exploit

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Because Makari is a Gretchen unit you can use grot shield on him lol

He is protecting the lootas

**Beardedragon**

kingbbobb wrote:
Oh wait he is using the grot shield trick/exploit

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Because Makari is a Gretchen unit you can use grot shield on him lol

hmm yea he might have. Im not much of an exploiter myself, so i dont hope he did. it feels sleasy for a winner to do that if he did.

**kingbbobb**

Basically its abuse the look out sir rule to protect the lootas with grot shield

Can't shoot the lootas until Makari is gone
Can't shoot Makari untill the look out sir rule is no longer in effect

**Beardedragon**

I know of it. It sucks people would do that though. Dunno if he did, but I Hope not. But still, congrats to him.

The guy who got second place is also someone in my local gaming group, and hes a super good player. Im surprised he whipped out his tyranids, he usually plays Craftworld. His skills at warhammer 40k tabletop is what often makes him win despite using not necessarily great factions.

With new codexes, people tend to win a lot easier because others dont know how to counter it. thats how it often goes with new codexes, win rates surges, and then falls a bit. some more than others.

If this GT had been a few months later, the guy who got second place could have won id say. very very skilled person.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh right that reminds me. This codex has.. er.. "been out" for a tiny while now, how do you guys feel about mechanized gameplay; do they gain the most from being Bad Moon or Freebootas?

**R1ncewind**

Afrodactyl wrote:
koooaei wrote:
Goff squigosaur with killchoppa and bbk trait the killiest hq that we've got. Can also be quite problematic to understand how all the rules interact.

Reading that thread I honestly have no idea what conclusion people came to.

I'll just be a good little grot and keep my head down until an FAQ comes out

That one confuses me as well, so I'll attempt to break one activation down and ask the right questions:

For clarity and not going back and forth between profiles, I'd first resolve the three squigosaur jaw attacks.
These are listed as 'additional attacks' to make, so BBK should not trigger for them (?).
The Goff-trait, however, adds not extra attacks but extra hits and should trigger.
The sixes on wound rolls inflict three MWs each and are discarded.

Then the five attacks with the Killchoppa:
Not-hitting attacks are set aside for BBK, sixes add another hit which need to be of another dice-colour since they are extras.
In wounding, failed wounds of the original attacks are added to BBK, the the failed extra hit attacks are not. Sixes add MWs.
Same is true for the saving step (minus the MWs, ofc).

Afterwards, the BBK attacks are handled. They do trigger the Goff-trait on hit rolls since these are additional hits and not additional attacks (?) and the MWs on wound rolls of 6.

Would people agree on that?

One might also argue that if an attack generates two hits, it could count only as not reaching the inflict damage step if both hits don't reach it.
If so, we'd have to roll the additional hits in pairs with the normal hits when rolling wounds and so far. Now that would grow tiresome

**Vineheart01**

BBK is an annoyingly ambiguous rule that they need to faq no matter how you view it. More than likely it will reference the stock Attack stat, and not any additionals.

On that note, digging around trying to find answers regarding to BBK i ran into this faq:

Page 91 – Rare Rules, Attacks That Make Multiple Hit Rolls
Add the following to the end of this Rare Rules entry:
‘Some rules can generate additional attacks during the attack
sequence itself, e.g. ‘after resolving all this model’s attacks, it
can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy
unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the Inflict
Damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.’ In these
cases, these additional attacks can never benefit from rules that
let you roll more than one hit roll for each attack being made –
they can only ever generate one additional hit roll for each attack
being made – but all other rules that are triggered by attacks, or
that apply to attacks (such as re-rolls or modifiers conferred by
other rules) apply to each additional hit roll. In addition, these
additional attacks cannot themselves trigger any rules that would
generate any further additional attacks.’

Kinda feels like this answers the issue at hand but also doesnt at the same time. Man i hate GW rulewriting... it also almost sounds like +1 attack effects (Choppa) wouldnt trigger Goff exploding 6s, which if thats true then man that kinda hurts goff

**R1ncewind**

Vineheart01 wrote:
BBK is an annoyingly ambiguous rule that they need to faq no matter how you view it. More than likely it will reference the stock Attack stat, and not any additionals.

On that note, digging around trying to find answers regarding to BBK i ran into this faq:

Page 91 – Rare Rules, Attacks That Make Multiple Hit Rolls
Add the following to the end of this Rare Rules entry:
‘Some rules can generate additional attacks during the attack
sequence itself, e.g. ‘after resolving all this model’s attacks, it
can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy
unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the Inflict
Damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.’ In these
cases, these additional attacks can never benefit from rules that
let you roll more than one hit roll for each attack being made –
they can only ever generate one additional hit roll for each attack
being made – but all other rules that are triggered by attacks, or
that apply to attacks (such as re-rolls or modifiers conferred by
other rules) apply to each additional hit roll. In addition, these
additional attacks cannot themselves trigger any rules that would
generate any further additional attacks.’

Kinda feels like this answers the issue at hand but also doesnt at the same time. Man i hate GW rulewriting... it also almost sounds like +1 attack effects (Choppa) wouldnt trigger Goff exploding 6s, which if thats true then man that kinda hurts goff

But those are not additional hit rolls but additional hits, so it would work.
I think the disambiguation here is between 'additional hit rolls'=='additional attacks' and 'additional hits'=='additional wound rolls'

**cody.d.**

I think there is a thread specifically for that particular interaction. Let's not open that tin of worms here hmm?

Though it does feel like the new book did pull some of our teeth in regards to making a killy character. The Killa klaw, brutal but kunnin' biker boss with the biggest boss tossed on was one hell of a reliable beatstick that could one shot knights with ease.

Outside of some janky interaction that could be FAQed it feels like they really pushed the tanky angle of orks with most of our relics and traits. Mostly for the shear fun of it I want to convert a mega armoured boss holding a big ass stormshield to represent Da Krushin' Armour. Good thing it comes in the battlebox so i'll have spares to mess with.

**R1ncewind**

cody.d. wrote:
I think there is a thread specifically for that particular interaction. Let's not open that tin of worms here hmm?

I could not find that post, does it deal with additional attack rules at large or just with BBK?
It would be nice to have it linked here (and if @Jidmah makes a new 'primer' post also in that) since it probably will come up a lot

**cody.d.**

R1ncewind wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
I think there is a thread specifically for that particular interaction. Let's not open that tin of worms here hmm?

I could not find that post, does it deal with additional attack rules at large or just with BBK?
It would be nice to have it linked here (and if @Jidmah makes a new 'primer' post also in that) since it probably will come up a lot

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/800288.page Here ya go, sadly after a while it devolved into circular arguments and snippy comments. (as YMDC usually does) So I don't think any final consensus was reached.

Also, seems like we're starting to get teasers for Warzone Octarius. Meaning we'll likely get some character upgrades. Hopefully they'll be better than the Kustom jobs, I would love some auras besides +1 to hit.

**Jidmah**

R1ncewind wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
I think there is a thread specifically for that particular interaction. Let's not open that tin of worms here hmm?

I could not find that post, does it deal with additional attack rules at large or just with BBK?
It would be nice to have it linked here (and if @Jidmah makes a new 'primer' post also in that) since it probably will come up a lot

Working on it, first post is like 90% done. Just got a few clans and the list of botched rules to go.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
R1ncewind wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
I think there is a thread specifically for that particular interaction. Let's not open that tin of worms here hmm?

I could not find that post, does it deal with additional attack rules at large or just with BBK?
It would be nice to have it linked here (and if @Jidmah makes a new 'primer' post also in that) since it probably will come up a lot

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/800288.page Here ya go, sadly after a while it devolved into circular arguments and snippy comments. (as YMDC usually does) So I don't think any final consensus was reached.

Yeah, peak YMDC performance. Utterly worthless gak from people intentionally misreading stuff to predend that they're clever. With YMDC being a gakshow and General full of grognards whining about a version they never play, the ork community is literally the only thing keeping me on dakka.

**Beardedragon**

wait, the squiggosaurs and squig units that can only make 3 attacks, dont benefit from brutal but kunning? oh well. i dont have a squig boss so ive never been in the situation.

I assumed that they did because you started a new sequence.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
R1ncewind wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
I think there is a thread specifically for that particular interaction. Let's not open that tin of worms here hmm?

I could not find that post, does it deal with additional attack rules at large or just with BBK?
It would be nice to have it linked here (and if @Jidmah makes a new 'primer' post also in that) since it probably will come up a lot

Working on it, first post is like 90% done. Just got a few clans and the list of botched rules to go.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
R1ncewind wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
I think there is a thread specifically for that particular interaction. Let's not open that tin of worms here hmm?

I could not find that post, does it deal with additional attack rules at large or just with BBK?
It would be nice to have it linked here (and if @Jidmah makes a new 'primer' post also in that) since it probably will come up a lot

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/800288.page Here ya go, sadly after a while it devolved into circular arguments and snippy comments. (as YMDC usually does) So I don't think any final consensus was reached.

Yeah, peak YMDC performance. Utterly worthless gak from people intentionally misreading stuff to predend that they're clever. With YMDC being a gakshow and General full of grognards whining about a version they never play, the ork community is literally the only thing keeping me on dakka.

rofl same. except for a few situations where i had questions, this is also generally the only thread i really look at.

**koooaei**

In short, for those who is not too eager to dive into the ymdc:

Goff squigosaur with Killchoppa and Brutal but cunning:

Mortal wounds seem to be in their own attack sequence that is generated after the initial attack sequence, so they do not affect brutal but cunning being triggered.

If you swing with a Killchoppa and get a 6 to wound and inflict a mw but the initial swing is saved, you get a bonus attack.

Squig jaw's +3 attacks are additional attacks but are not generated during the attack sequence, so can trigger bbk extra attacks.

If squig jaws roll a 6 to wound they inflict mw and also generate an additional attack cause the initial sequence breaks before dealing damage.

Extra hits from goff's 6s do not affect how bbk works - only the initial attack sequence counts.

...
I'm pretty sure gw would have no idea how the rules currently interact and will just faq it randomly to their liking.

Btw, after ymdc remembered an old Russian anecdote:

Spoiler:

**Tyel**

It doesn't help that GW's "fix" to everyone's favourite ludicrously overpowered Succubus is basically incomprehensible.

FWIW I think you should get to attack again if you roll a 6 with the Killchoppa but the attack is then saved - but you don't with the Squigosaur, on the grounds that [and the attack sequence ends] trumps "but I get to go again cos I didn't do damage tho?".

Realistically these rules are incredibly obnoxious, it would surely be easier to just give "reroll all failed hits, failed wounds and your opponent rerolls successful saves" if that's sort of what GW wanted. (Not totally sure if it maths out the same, but it must be similar.)

**Bossdoc**

Bbk should never trigger from Squigosaurs attacks, since they are hard-capped at 3 ("and no more than 3 Attacks may be made with this profile"), unless you try to argue that the bbk bonus attacks don't have to be taken with the same weapon that did the initial attack...

**Vineheart01**

thats the issue, per its own wording it does trigger
All it checks is after its done attacking, if any attacks made by this model failed to reach the damage step then it makes 1 more attack for each.

The issue mostly revolves around 40k not having mount rules, like AoS, where the mount is NOT the same as "this model" and most things dont affect it.
It shouldnt trigger, but it does right now. And will most likely get faq'd into an even more confusing description so we just accept it like the Psychic Awakening Holy Order faq of "we treat it this way because otherwise it breaks half the game" and ignore the problem.

**CaptainO**

I'm running 3 detachments. Initially I was initially thinking mozrog, a EVIL SUNZ biker boss with killa klaw and junk boss and a GOFF mega armoured boss with Ard as nails and a cyborg body. On reflection a beastboss on squigasaur (probably with BBK and beasthide mantle) is better than the last two. But which one? 115 points to spend.

**Grimskul**

CaptainO wrote:
I'm running 3 detachments. Initially I was initially thinking mozrog, a EVIL SUNZ biker boss with killa klaw and junk boss and a GOFF mega armoured boss with Ard as nails and a cyborg body. On reflection a beastboss on squigasaur (probably with BBK and beasthide mantle) is better than the last two. But which one? 115 points to spend.

Realistically, I would say to replace the Goff MAW. Mobility is the name of the game and being able to not rely on transports to ferry your key characters is pretty big IMO, and it also restricts which combat HQ's your opponent can reasonable attempt to stop with screens/roadblock units.

**cody.d.**

So thinking about freebootaz, just because I love em a bunch. Seems like a unit of burnaboyz would be a great unit for triggering the streak, deep strike em in, torch a unit and start off the chain. But sadly it seems like you can't make them pyromaniacs as that would change out the <freebootaz> keyword to <Pyromaniacs> Correct?

Also, i'm umming and erring on grots, specifically mek guns being able to proc the chain. But I think you do, because even though grots don't get access to the culture abilities they still keep the clan keyword which is all that's needed for the kompettitive streak to start right?

And did we ever confirm if the competitive streak stacks infinitely or if it's a yes or no type thing? It does specify each time, but, damn that ability could have been worded a little more cleanly. "This unit gets 1+ to hit rolls if an enemy unit was destroyed by a freebootaz unit this phase."