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 bullyboy wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I like seeing the change to wounds on Marines. If they now fix transport segregation we're well on the way to leaving this Primaris nonsense behind and just have Marines again.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
This is bonkers level of sweeping changes. Doesn't this invalidate the Munitorium manual of the new Chapter Approved - which came out just last week - on top of everything else?

Naturally. This is why so many of us keep saying: Don't buy GW's printed material.

I'd go a little further than that: don't pay for errata.

Did people really buy the bundle for the points manual? Personally I just saw that tacked on to the tournament pack, which is almost a necessity since it has the rules in a far less bulky package then the monstrous (but glorious) rule book.

Depends on the person, I guess?

Chapter Approved thus far has been a way to monetize changing points costs and secure GW an annual purchase from active players. The rest of the books are filler designed to suggest further value beyond mere pouts that is of more or less useful based on the interests of the individual player, but I think it's no secret that Chapter Approved primarily sells because it provides current points costs, and that this is fully GW's intention.

Chapter Approved 2020 may well be an outstanding example in that regard and a good purchase if enough people find the tournament pack useful and desirable. If this speaks to enough people it does a good job that at least part of the money for the book goes into buying and errata.

 bullyboy wrote:
Did people really buy the bundle for the points manual? Personally I just saw that tacked on to the tournament pack, which is almost a necessity since it has the rules in a far less bulky package then the monstrous (but glorious) rule book.

I did. I got the core book too, and I don't really have any issue lugging that around, though I will admit the smaller version is going to be useful.
The main reason for getting the points manual is that I have a lot of smaller forces for armies that I don't expect to all get full Codexes any time soon (Eldar, Daemons, Chaos Marines). On those grounds though, I won't be getting Chapter Approved for incremental point changes in the meantime... nor have I ever bought Chapter Approved before, for the same reason.

To put it another way - one big sweep of changes in one book for a new edition, or a new Codex, I'm fine with. Incremental annual updates, I take umbrage to.

They haven't done any really big updates like what we're seeing via Chapter Approved since they brought it back. The whole point of CA has been missions, points, and errata.

Personally speaking? I saw no reason to buy CA this go-round. New codices are coming and it's not like tournaments are being played stateside. We don't even really have in-store browsing as a thing at the hobby shops where I live.

Is there a round up of what info we have received yet anywhere?
Don’t want to be trawling to see new stats etc.
Particularly as this got consolidated with marine info, and I just wanted to find Necron updates, so now it’s even harder with 18 pages of both.

 Stormonu wrote:

I'm sure some did. It's not like your getting a heap of pages for free so I would have been very annoyed for it to be binnable less than a week after I got it.

Uhm. Marines sure are all in 40k if entire point book gets invalidated because marines and necrons get codex.

IG points are obviously irrelevant. SOB points? Who cares. Orks? Who play them. Entire book is binnable because marines and necrons get codex.

Or were people expecting new codexes not have points? Not have point changes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Did people really buy the bundle for the points manual? Personally I just saw that tacked on to the tournament pack, which is almost a necessity since it has the rules in a far less bulky package then the monstrous (but glorious) rule book.

I did. I got the core book too, and I don't really have any issue lugging that around, though I will admit the smaller version is going to be useful.
The main reason for getting the points manual is that I have a lot of smaller forces for armies that I don't expect to all get full Codexes any time soon (Eldar, Daemons, Chaos Marines). On those grounds though, I won't be getting Chapter Approved for incremental point changes in the meantime... nor have I ever bought Chapter Approved before, for the same reason.

To put it another way - one big sweep of changes in one book for a new edition, or a new Codex, I'm fine with. Incremental annual updates, I take umbrage to.

So you don't plan to play in tournaments then? If points is all for you then that means that the tournament pack is meaningless for you? Without it no tournaments for you.

Danny76 wrote:
Is there a round up of what info we have received yet anywhere?
Don’t want to be trawling to see new stats etc.
Particularly as this got consolidated with marine info, and I just wanted to find Necron updates, so now it’s even harder with 18 pages of both.

Sasori has a Necron General Discussion Thread going down in 40k General. If you click 'Filter Thread' under their name, you should be able to find the stuff easier as I believe they reposted it there.

tneva82 wrote:
So you don't plan to play in tournaments then? If points is all for you then that means that the tournament pack is meaningless for you? Without it no tournaments for you.

That's correct, I don't plan to play in any tournaments - just friendly local matches, MAYBE a local tourney if one came up, but it's been a while.
That doesn't make the tournament pack totally meaningless - the missions are still usable in friendlier games too - but I wouldn't have gotten a copy if it was sold separately.

 Super Ready wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
So you don't plan to play in tournaments then? If points is all for you then that means that the tournament pack is meaningless for you? Without it no tournaments for you.

That's correct, I don't plan to play in any tournaments - just friendly local matches, MAYBE a local tourney if one came up, but it's been a while.
That doesn't make the tournament pack totally meaningless - the missions are still usable in friendlier games too - but I wouldn't have gotten a copy if it was sold separately.

Its like 30 extra missions for the game plus a mini rule book, dont see how its a bad thing

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
This is bonkers level of sweeping changes. Doesn't this invalidate the Munitorium manual of the new Chapter Approved - which came out just last week - on top of everything else?

Naturally. This is why so many of us keep saying: Don't buy GW's printed material.

From the New Boxes. New Rules. New Codexes! article on Warhammer Community:

These new rules and points will come into effect officially, as new codexes are released.

So unless there is an update via a FAQ, the Munitorum Field Manual is unchanged until the first codices drop in October.

tneva82 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

I'm sure some did. It's not like your getting a heap of pages for free so I would have been very annoyed for it to be binnable less than a week after I got it.

Uhm. Marines sure are all in 40k if entire point book gets invalidated because marines and necrons get codex.

IG points are obviously irrelevant. SOB points? Who cares. Orks? Who play them. Entire book is binnable because marines and necrons get codex.

Or were people expecting new codexes not have points? Not have point changes?

you knew marines where getting a codex in october before you purchased the book.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

I'm sure some did. It's not like your getting a heap of pages for free so I would have been very annoyed for it to be binnable less than a week after I got it.

Uhm. Marines sure are all in 40k if entire point book gets invalidated because marines and necrons get codex.

IG points are obviously irrelevant. SOB points? Who cares. Orks? Who play them. Entire book is binnable because marines and necrons get codex.

Or were people expecting new codexes not have points? Not have point changes?

you knew marines where getting a codex in october before you purchased the book.

I think that's kinda tneva82's point - there was no way that the content within the MFM would remain static, even ignoring errata, until the next CA came out. Sections of it were always going to be overwritten as new codexes (or whatever the right plural is) were released. I even think the October SM/Necron releases were confirmed before CA hit the streets.

Trying to claim the whole thing has been invalidated by partial statline previews, when GW has specifically said nowt changes until a book drops, reminds me very much of a key phrase from one of the best characters in cinema:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Just regarding the 30" range boltgun on the command squad data sheet. The extra range could be to represent a relic boltgun, which the command sprue does come with.

 Snrub wrote:
Just regarding the 30" range boltgun on the command squad data sheet. The extra range could be to represent a relic boltgun, which the command sprue does come with.

I really hope that this is the case. They didn't have any sort of special bolters before though.

 Dysartes wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

I'm sure some did. It's not like your getting a heap of pages for free so I would have been very annoyed for it to be binnable less than a week after I got it.

Uhm. Marines sure are all in 40k if entire point book gets invalidated because marines and necrons get codex.

IG points are obviously irrelevant. SOB points? Who cares. Orks? Who play them. Entire book is binnable because marines and necrons get codex.

Or were people expecting new codexes not have points? Not have point changes?

you knew marines where getting a codex in october before you purchased the book.

I think that's kinda tneva82's point - there was no way that the content within the MFM would remain static, even ignoring errata, until the next CA came out. Sections of it were always going to be overwritten as new codexes (or whatever the right plural is) were released. I even think the October SM/Necron releases were confirmed before CA hit the streets.

Trying to claim the whole thing has been invalidated by partial statline previews, when GW has specifically said nowt changes until a book drops, reminds me very much of a key phrase from one of the best characters in cinema:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

This. GW has basically following options:

a) make every point in CA based on current abilities. When codex drop point costs remain so many units would become underpriced(if unit gets buffs) or overpriced(if they get nerfed).
b) make every point in CA based on upcoming codexes. Then until codex drops above issue reversed.
c) do it as they do now. Have CA points based on current abilities(as flawed as they were pointed) and then put new point costs in codexes
d) release every single codex at once and while for gamers point of view this would be best GW isn't going to do especially as they want people to buy many of those so spreading them and thus spreading pull of income. One player might baulk at buying 4 armies at once. Spread over longer period? Not so few succumb to impulse buying...If they would release all at once how many impulse army starts would be cancelled as player things further during the period he needs to save money to be able to afford to buy it?

 Crimson wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
Just regarding the 30" range boltgun on the command squad data sheet. The extra range could be to represent a relic boltgun, which the command sprue does come with.

I really hope that this is the case. They didn't have any sort of special bolters before though.

/rampent speculation

They might be doing something with company vets and sternguard? Although the sternguard bolters had more then just the extra range on their statline. With Deathwatch being rolled into the main book, we might be a return of SIA to the SG?

Company Vets have been in an odd space since they fragmented the command squad. I would not be surprised to see some major changes to their entry.

Maybe, since they don’t seem to want to throw in a bunch os special rules with the summary sheets, it’s actually just an attempt to average out the effect of Special Issue ammo?

so sick of codexes, i wish GW would get past them.

They just spent most of a year demonstrating they can come up with much worse models; hence Psychic Snoozefest.


The codex is a cornerstone of their marketing strategy, it isn't going away.

Voss wrote:
They just spent most of a year demonstrating they can come up with much worse models; hence Psychic Snoozefest.


The codex is a cornerstone of their marketing strategy, it isn't going away.

I know it is their main bread and butter, if they just kept it all to one book it would be manageable but then there are expansions etc and you need 3-4 books for one army. I got so many old codexs which are really nice books but they are worthless once the new editions come out. And realistically they only need 10 pages or so to put out the special rules. I wish they would bring back the old soft cover codexes that used to be around $20 and then give the option for the hardcover for whatever they are now probably around $50?

angel of death 007 wrote:

Voss wrote:
They just spent most of a year demonstrating they can come up with much worse models; hence Psychic Snoozefest.


The codex is a cornerstone of their marketing strategy, it isn't going away.

I know it is their main bread and butter, if they just kept it all to one book it would be manageable but then there are expansions etc and you need 3-4 books for one army. I got so many old codexs which are really nice books but they are worthless once the new editions come out. And realistically they only need 10 pages or so to put out the special rules. I wish they would bring back the old soft cover codexes that used to be around $20 and then give the option for the hardcover for whatever they are now probably around $50?

$40. Wait, is this just a price complaint?

If you're talking about needing 3-4 books that is definitively NOT a codex problem. That's a problem with 'campaign books' like vigilus or PA.

The general feedback the got on the cheap & thin softcover booklets in 3rd edition was that people _hated_ them for not having enough fluff, art and model pictures. So they plumped them back up.

Both the 2nd and 5th ed codexes were full of the fluff and extras that 3rd didn't have, though... and they were still paperbacks. Regardless, the issue here isn't really the difference between soft/hard cover but the increase of price over time, both with ordinary inflation (which ok is fair enough) and GW's love of price hikes.

I agree with the principle that putting core rules into campaign books and charging for annual updates like Chapter Approved are both too much, which is why I've never bought either. I fully expect to be able to play a specific faction with no more than one Codex, and any updates beyond that like points changes ought to be free.

Does seem a bit strange, having to pay for patches intended to fix an inadequate product that you've already paid for.

"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.
And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

That's not exactly a fair analysis for all but the Marine books. Nobody other than Necrons know for certain when their next Codex is actually going to drop - and not even Necrons knew that they'd be next when their Psychic Awakening book hit.
Not to mention, Psychic Awakening itself began last October - meaning that even if you somehow knew the exact dates of the next Codexes, the earlier factions will have been waiting at least a year (very likely, even longer) before they get their new book. You're either forcing them to buy into the stopgap, or watch as their old book slowly becomes less and less relevant on the table.
Lastly, that bit about seeing the writing on the wall is only of any use to people that have seen the cycle before. New players aren't going to know any better and would absolutely be suckered in (or, who knows? Quite possibly put off by) the staffer informing them that as well as the Codex, their army has another book with yet more cool rules and stuff they can use. They'd have no knowledge of the incoming new edition.

Besides... the argument that "we should have seen it coming" and "it'll all be in the new books" does nothing to convince me that putting core rules into an extra book and expecting people to buy it is a deplorable practice. I didn't fall for it but I'm still quite allowed to call it out as reprehensible.

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

some armies could go over a year without a new codex. PA at least makes that sting less

Wasn't there supposed to be some big reveal at the end of PA? Like, many of us were expecting to see a Primarch return or something, weren't we? Did it all just end in an incredibly flaccid manner? Or was 9th edition the big finale? I feel like I've missed something.

The Silent King returned.

That's kind of a big deal. "Pariah" actually details it in far more depth than I care to here, but suffice to say that there was not just one "Pariah Nexus" and they basically made the sigil of Szarakhen when looked at on a map.
Szeras basically lit off a giant "Szarakhen Signal" in the stars to summon the Silent King back.

Additionally, it's worth remembering that COVID really did screw things up. Lumineth are something like five months behind at this point(coming in September, the army book details points as being correct for April 2020) and the General's Handbook had points for the two Underworlds Warbands that just went up for preorder today(August 15).

Ah ok. Yeah, I remember now, but I'm not too surprised I forgot.

yeah basicly the return of the silent king was spoiled early due to scheduling snafus

Truthfully, we knew Szarekh was returning since the 5th edition codex (at least in the fluff anyway)

In c.744.M41, the Silent King enters the bounds of the galaxy once more. Having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void, he recognizes the threat they pose to the Necrons' apotheosis - if the Tyranids devour all the life in the galaxy, the Necrons will never find living bodies to house their consciousnesses.

That was also repeated (in a slightly different form) in the 7th and 8th edition codexes.