Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

some armies could go over a year without a new codex. PA at least makes that sting less

What in the world...?
Armies should go multiple years without a new codex. The desirable amount will vary by person, but I'd say 4-5 minimum.

PA stung a lot more, because it was terrible, repetitive filler strung out to avoid admitting to how temporary 8th edition was, even moreso than usual.

 Ghaz wrote:
Truthfully, we knew Szarekh was returning since the 5th edition codex (at least in the fluff anyway)

In c.744.M41, the Silent King enters the bounds of the galaxy once more. Having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void, he recognizes the threat they pose to the Necrons' apotheosis - if the Tyranids devour all the life in the galaxy, the Necrons will never find living bodies to house their consciousnesses.

That was also repeated (in a slightly different form) in the 7th and 8th edition codexes.

we also know the Lion is sleeping in the rock and will wake up.. aaaaaaaaaany day now.

angel of death 007 wrote:

Voss wrote:
They just spent most of a year demonstrating they can come up with much worse models; hence Psychic Snoozefest.


The codex is a cornerstone of their marketing strategy, it isn't going away.

I know it is their main bread and butter, if they just kept it all to one book it would be manageable but then there are expansions etc and you need 3-4 books for one army. I got so many old codexs which are really nice books but they are worthless once the new editions come out. And realistically they only need 10 pages or so to put out the special rules. I wish they would bring back the old soft cover codexes that used to be around $20 and then give the option for the hardcover for whatever they are now probably around $50?

40. And 20 in 2000 would be tad over 30 today so price isn't that bad actually. Less than 10 dollars for more fluff, hardcover etc isn't worst deal. Worse is supplement count and faster edition spin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

Well not all yes. Means you likely still want pa for stuff not in codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

some armies could go over a year without a new codex. PA at least makes that sting less

What in the world...?
Armies should go multiple years without a new codex. The desirable amount will vary by person, but I'd say 4-5 minimum.

PA stung a lot more, because it was terrible, repetitive filler strung out to avoid admitting to how temporary 8th edition was, even moreso than usual.

6th lasted 2years. Same 7th. 8th 3 years. Aos 1s' what 1 year? 8th was unusually long for recent gw. Expect 40k 10th 2022-2024.

So I was reading dawn of fire and there's an intreasting passage in it

BrianDavion wrote:
So I was reading dawn of fire and there's an intreasting passage in it

Spoiler:

in a scene where primaris marines are being unveilded for the first time there is a passage that reads " "there was hold after hold of tanks, battlewalkers, aircraft and void fighters.... obviously intended for the adeptus Astartes" hinting at an upcoming primaris flier maybe?

Well

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

some armies could go over a year without a new codex. PA at least makes that sting less

What in the world...?
Armies should go multiple years without a new codex. The desirable amount will vary by person, but I'd say 4-5 minimum.

PA stung a lot more, because it was terrible, repetitive filler strung out to avoid admitting to how temporary 8th edition was, even moreso than usual.

5 years getting stuck with the same fething book? Lol, nope. 3 Years at the absolute MAXIMUM.

tneva82 wrote:
6th lasted 2years. Same 7th. 8th 3 years. Aos 1s' what 1 year? 8th was unusually long for recent gw. Expect 40k 10th 2022-2024.

6th ed lasted for 23 months, with 7th being a May release after 6th coming in the usual end of June/early July spot.

7th ed lasted for 3 years. 8th ed lasted for 3 years. AoS 1st ed lasted for 3 years.

It's reasonable to treat 3 years as the current norm for an edition's life cycle. One should expect AoS 3rd ed next summer and 40k 10th ed in 2023 if GW is not forced to adjust what has proven to be a profitable release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:

Spoiler:

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

some armies could go over a year without a new codex. PA at least makes that sting less

What in the world...?
Armies should go multiple years without a new codex. The desirable amount will vary by person, but I'd say 4-5 minimum.

PA stung a lot more, because it was terrible, repetitive filler strung out to avoid admitting to how temporary 8th edition was, even moreso than usual.

5 years getting stuck with the same fething book? Lol, nope. 3 Years at the absolute MAXIMUM.

The idea is that on the customer side you have a stable book you can build on, what with plenty of people not knocking out a new army in a couple of weeks. It makes purchases safer for longer if you buy models with rules in mind. Also, it's easier on the wallet.

On GW's end, actually taking their time to write a codex, think it through and revise it as necessary before it's published should improve quality and therefore also be a benefit to the customer.

Obviously that doesn't work because GW's rules writers are incapable of writing good rules on their own and keeping to the same design paradigm for more than half an edition.

A shorter codex cycle doesn't fix that, however. It'll only lead to rushed, sloppy books that still manage to shift paradigms halfway through the edition. It's just costs the customer more and involves a whole lot more errata.

Happy takeaway: It's going to suck either way but a longer cycle at least costs you less.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
So I was reading dawn of fire and there's an intreasting passage in it

Spoiler:

in a scene where primaris marines are being unveilded for the first time there is a passage that reads " "there was hold after hold of tanks, battlewalkers, aircraft and void fighters.... obviously intended for the adeptus Astartes" hinting at an upcoming primaris flier maybe?

Well

Spoiler:

I don’t think we even need a hint for a Primaris Flyer, that’s pretty much a given regardless.

Pretty sure the Overlord was the Primaris Thunderhawk equivalent introduced in Dark Imperium (the novel).

By void fighter I'd say they mean something else, more along the size of the Stormhawk

You’re correct about the overlord (the Lexicanum link didn’t work so fixed with a copy/paste). I think for now the Marines are going to be like the Tau, smaller lighter first born get to be pilots and primaris are ground pounders. Next year when the Space Marines Codex v2 comes out there will probably be a primaris frier unless there’s a dogfight expansion before then.

 Geifer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6th lasted 2years. Same 7th. 8th 3 years. Aos 1s' what 1 year? 8th was unusually long for recent gw. Expect 40k 10th 2022-2024.

6th ed lasted for 23 months, with 7th being a May release after 6th coming in the usual end of June/early July spot.

7th ed lasted for 3 years. 8th ed lasted for 3 years. AoS 1st ed lasted for 3 years.

It's reasonable to treat 3 years as the current norm for an edition's life cycle. One should expect AoS 3rd ed next summer and 40k 10th ed in 2023 if GW is not forced to adjust what has proven to be a profitable release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:

Spoiler:

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Core rules in campaign books" is laughable.

The stuff from Psychic Awakening, per GW themselves, is going to be in the updated codices alongside of points and Crusade stuff. They've said "not all of the Psychic Awakening" stuff will make it into the codices but what that means nobody knows. More likely than not, it means that the missions and lore won't be in there.

And frankly if anyone didn't see the writing on the wall about a new edition or codices coming once Psychic Awakening dropped(or when GW themselves called it a stopgap measure for adding new content to existing codices)? That's on those folks. Nobody made you buy the books.

some armies could go over a year without a new codex. PA at least makes that sting less

What in the world...?
Armies should go multiple years without a new codex. The desirable amount will vary by person, but I'd say 4-5 minimum.

PA stung a lot more, because it was terrible, repetitive filler strung out to avoid admitting to how temporary 8th edition was, even moreso than usual.

5 years getting stuck with the same fething book? Lol, nope. 3 Years at the absolute MAXIMUM.

The idea is that on the customer side you have a stable book you can build on, what with plenty of people not knocking out a new army in a couple of weeks. It makes purchases safer for longer if you buy models with rules in mind. Also, it's easier on the wallet.

On GW's end, actually taking their time to write a codex, think it through and revise it as necessary before it's published should improve quality and therefore also be a benefit to the customer.

Obviously that doesn't work because GW's rules writers are incapable of writing good rules on their own and keeping to the same design paradigm for more than half an edition.

A shorter codex cycle doesn't fix that, however. It'll only lead to rushed, sloppy books that still manage to shift paradigms halfway through the edition. It's just costs the customer more and involves a whole lot more errata.

Happy takeaway: It's going to suck either way but a longer cycle at least costs you less.

It's boring is what it is. Having a book drag on for years and years and years means the only way it doesn't become unbearably dull is if you either see very significant points changes with relative frequency (more than the 'bring it in line' chapter approved changes) or if you bolt on campaign books like PA.

Do we need 2 Space marine codexes in 12 months? No, the pace of the hobby is too slow for that. But waiting 5 years between books generally just means 2 years of playing and 3 years of asking when the new book's coming out.

Could you even imagine being stuck with something like the 8th edition grey knight book without PA for another 2 Years? Because I don't want to.

3 Years means a new book once per edition, which is perfectly fine.

Smaug wrote:
You’re correct about the overlord (the Lexicanum link didn’t work so fixed with a copy/paste). I think for now the Marines are going to be like the Tau, smaller lighter first born get to be pilots and primaris are ground pounders. Next year when the Space Marines Codex v2 comes out there will probably be a primaris frier unless there’s a dogfight expansion before then.

Just clarify your "SM Codex v2", Smaug, are you meaning a third or fourth Codex since the start of 8th? #3 is on the books for October, going by WHC.

Voss wrote:
Pretty sure the Overlord was the Primaris Thunderhawk equivalent introduced in Dark Imperium (the novel).

By void fighter I'd say they mean something else, more along the size of the Stormhawk

We've seen these blurry pics a while ago, looks to be a Primaris flyer; about Redemptor sized:

That shares far too many design cues with a Land Speeder for it to be a flyer, especially a SM flyer.

Hopefully GW can finally make a Marine fighter not look like a POS, FW one is good - just make that in plastic

 Dysartes wrote:
That shares far too many design cues with a Land Speeder for it to be a flyer, especially a SM flyer.

It was not until you mentioned that that I noticed I could see the crew's helmets (and that the vehicle next to it must be a Gladiator instead of a Repulsor), so that makes sense! Looks huge though in comparison to the old Land Speeder...

ERJAK wrote:
It's boring is what it is. Having a book drag on for years and years and years means the only way it doesn't become unbearably dull is if you either see very significant points changes with relative frequency (more than the 'bring it in line' chapter approved changes) or if you bolt on campaign books like PA.

Do we need 2 Space marine codexes in 12 months? No, the pace of the hobby is too slow for that. But waiting 5 years between books generally just means 2 years of playing and 3 years of asking when the new book's coming out.

Could you even imagine being stuck with something like the 8th edition grey knight book without PA for another 2 Years? Because I don't want to.

3 Years means a new book once per edition, which is perfectly fine.

One could argue that three years is a little short for an edition's life, too.

Everyone getting their codex in the current edition (and Sisters getting it, for a change, not just six months before the edition ends would be nice to see as far as that goes) is a positive change in principle, but I have not been convinced by the quality of the rules in 8th ed. Even by GW standards they feel rushed, disjointed and incomplete. The latter is exceptionally easy to see because of the quasi living rule set approach GW has switched to. We get to see them make bad rules and then changing their minds about it one or more times. Now I do have a low opinion of the rules writers' abilities to begin with, but I cannot imagine that time constraints don't contribute to the problem in a meaningful way.

Three years is a short time to write codices for everyone, considering the number of factions 40k has. Or, I guess, write them well at any rate. Being stuck with a bad book is obviously not desirable, but I wouldn't go so far as to insist that because a codex should be valid for four or more years, there aren't cases where GW screwed up so badly that they should do a revised codex earlier. That shouldn't be necessary, but that would require GW to keep up a minimum standard, and we know that's not going to happen even if by some miracle GW decided to value the quality of the game higher than the bare minimum required to make it the sales vehicle it is.

 Insane Ivan wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
That shares far too many design cues with a Land Speeder for it to be a flyer, especially a SM flyer.

It was not until you mentioned that that I noticed I could see the crew's helmets (and that the vehicle next to it must be a Gladiator instead of a Repulsor), so that makes sense! Looks huge though in comparison to the old Land Speeder...

Of course it's huge. How else are you going to fit a PDF regiment's worth of heavy stubbers on it?

 Dysartes wrote:

Smaug wrote:
You’re correct about the overlord (the Lexicanum link didn’t work so fixed with a copy/paste). I think for now the Marines are going to be like the Tau, smaller lighter first born get to be pilots and primaris are ground pounders. Next year when the Space Marines Codex v2 comes out there will probably be a primaris frier unless there’s a dogfight expansion before then.

Just clarify your "SM Codex v2", Smaug, are you meaning a third or fourth Codex since the start of 8th? #3 is on the books for October, going by WHC.

Poking fun at there’s at lest two Space Marine codices per edition, so the one after the one coming in October.
I think it’s interesting that aircraft is separated from void fighters. The author may have just been using liberties, but new stuff is fun as long as its not limited to certain chapters. Over all probably won’t mean as much for this game as it could for aeronautica.
I forget about that flier/ skimmer/ tank thing. I wish we could have gotten a clean picture of it before they announced the gladiator.

Impulsor

 Dysartes wrote:


I think that's kinda tneva82's point - there was no way that the content within the MFM would remain static, even ignoring errata, until the next CA came out. Sections of it were always going to be overwritten as new codexes (or whatever the right plural is) were released. I even think the October SM/Necron releases were confirmed before CA hit the streets.

Trying to claim the whole thing has been invalidated by partial statline previews, when GW has specifically said nowt changes until a book drops, reminds me very much of a key phrase from one of the best characters in cinema:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Here's how the CA points could be taken now that we have these W2 revelations --

GW needed to bring the points level back up to make things sensible in context of Primaris as well as give enough space between W2 and W1. Imagine if you will points stayed as prior. You'd have 17 point Primaris, 15 point First Born, 11 point CSM, and 9 to 5 for W1. That spread makes less sense than 18/14/9to5 regardless of your opinion on IS. Then when CSM push up to 17 or 18 you'll have a well defined W2 to W1 transition.

My big question is now whether the old units and weapons properly costed for the new book.

Post-hoc rationalization? Possibly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Danit wrote:
Impulsor

Stubber down 12", but +1 shot. Skytalon is +2 shots. Straight D2 on Icarus instead of D3.

Seems reasonable.

Well we know already cost of tacticals in new w2 form. Primaris are also unlikely to change all that much unless they get buff. Hard to see them go up in price without buff and with tacticals on 18 no room to go down either.

yeah I can't see intercessors going down in points unless GW decides +1A and -1 AP are only worth 1 point together and drops them to 19 pts, which seems... unlikely

Is it just me or does it not have the Orbital Uplink statted out on it?

That is the one I'd be interested to have seen.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Is it just me or does it not have the Orbital Uplink statted out on it?

That is the one I'd be interested to have seen.

That probably qualifies as a special rule, and none of these have those on them. No shield dome either.

Heard it would be going to 5++ but no real source given so i class that as unlikely. Gw ain"t nerfing marines like that

tneva82 wrote:
Heard it would be going to 5++ but no real source given so i class that as unlikely. Gw ain"t nerfing marines like that

Iirc it was in a Warcom article in the text. But we all know how accurate these are
I can see it going to 5+ and storm shields to 4+. It can be quite annoying to play against a whole bunch of so good invulns...and I say that as a SW player and we are the kings of storm shields

Ragnar69 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Heard it would be going to 5++ but no real source given so i class that as unlikely. Gw ain"t nerfing marines like that

Iirc it was in a Warcom article in the text. But we all know how accurate these are
I can see it going to 5+ and storm shields to 4+. It can be quite annoying to play against a whole bunch of so good invulns...and I say that as a SW player and we are the kings of storm shields

I'm pretty positive it was already stated to be a mistake and they went back and fixed the article back to 4+

Doomscythe looking good. They upped the Save on the DDA, but otherwise no other change.

3+ save on the arks, nice!

And both scythe weapons have an upgrade, also nice!

Heavy 3? and with 3+d3, almost looks like the preferred AT option

So does Tesla = More shots in 9th? No more exploding dice?