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Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

Tyel wrote:
If it was 40 points its an auto-include every day of the week. Maybe some negativity on attrition/grind them down - or assassinate if its a character - but you'd take 3, go clear out backfield objectives. Its a fire and forget missile at that points cost.

Given Billy the Nid is 80 points though, and this model's relative size and bulk, I'd be very surprised. I think something in the 100-120 range is more likely - with some reasonably potent defenses. Which is where you get into issues, because there is only so many ways you can square killing 7 guardsmen, or a single marine, with that points cost, unless there are considerable additional special rules.

But its too early to tell really.

Kellermorphs get the ability to shoot characters, which I don't think the Hexmark does (given how it was described in the preview), and have D2 on their guns.
It's 40pts for a Destroyer with a hyperphase thresher or reap-blade, and I think we're looking that size of chasis rather than a Lord - being a characters going to bump up the cost, but that might not be charged at quite as much of a premium given it deepstrikes and has a 12" range.

I reckon it'll be more in the region of 60-80pts (and just a bit too much). But you're right - it's far to early to be sure.

I also think with the number of new EtB kits coming out it might be time to let go of the idea that everything makes dual kits, so it will probably be it's own thing rather than an alt build of either of the other scorpeks.

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

no no, MARINES are judged on how many guardsmen they can kill. it's fair because reasons!

Wow you boys really showed em.

I mean, what duhfuses for using the current top of the meta as the yard stick. I mean, it's such an insult to them too.

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.

Exactly.
Seems only logical that people are going to be judging a new unit by whether or not it helps them do something that the army struggles with.
Personally - I like the idea of keeping him in reserve until there's a nice juicy wounded unit holding a far-off objective and he can swoop in and save the day. That's the dream.
But I have to temper that with every 9th ed Necrons v Marines battle report I've watched where Necrons get utterly blown off the table. There is no cute little late-game objective battles, just can you kill marines and Repulsors fast enough to have anything left standing.
And of course a lot will have to be reevaluated in October.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.

And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

Dudeface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.

And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.

And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean it is objectively bad, nor that it should by default be expected to be clearing units of marines. If it can pop out and take down a couple of eliminators or hellblasters in the back line then contest an objective or make your opponent pivot to deal with it, that's adding value, especially now deathmarks are back line snipers

A hellblaster probably, even if it take two shots to take one down it'll almost certainly only get one extra shot.

I could see space for a fast teleporting infantry unit if it's cheap enough. Able to do it's pistol thing, but also the various infantry only secondaries.

Dudeface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.

And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean it is objectively bad, nor that it should by default be expected to be clearing units of marines. If it can pop out and take down a couple of eliminators or hellblasters in the back line then contest an objective or make your opponent pivot to deal with it, that's adding value, especially now deathmarks are back line snipers

Rules as suspected, it can't pop up and clear out some eliminators unless it can ignore cover and maybe killing a single hellblaster isn't going to shift the tide.

It needs to be a serious treat to a MSU intercessor squad for which it will most likely be pointed at.

All I would like is for it to reliably kill 3 marines with hot dice smoking up to 5.

Tyel wrote:
If it was 40 points its an auto-include every day of the week. Maybe some negativity on attrition/grind them down - or assassinate if its a character - but you'd take 3, go clear out backfield objectives. Its a fire and forget missile at that points cost.

Given Billy the Nid is 80 points though, and this model's relative size and bulk, I'd be very surprised. I think something in the 100-120 range is more likely - with some reasonably potent defenses. Which is where you get into issues, because there is only so many ways you can square killing 7 guardsmen, or a single marine, with that points cost, unless there are considerable additional special rules.

But its too early to tell really.

I'd like for it to have it's own personal version of the Ghostwalk mantle (oldschool VoD), but that would be too much to ask. That being said, 3 of these guys and a couple teleported in units of Immortals would make for a decent alpha strike.

I'm just sitting here, disgruntled that another week goes by without the Firestrike Turret, Lokhust Destroyer and friends release

Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?

 Tastyfish wrote:
Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?

We are not.

These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)

Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

Did someone actually make this statement?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:
Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?

We are not.

These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.

I was thinking back to the datasheets that seemed to be very light on abilities, there was some speculation that these weren't codex pages with Canoptek Doomstalkers and Lokhust destroyers on the same page, the latter with no resurrection protocols or destroyer cult rules (or even keywords).
No faction specific detailing to the pages either, which makes me think it's not the codex (can't see us going back to having bestiary sections) - wouldn't surprise me to see if they were in something like a "reinforcements" box. Unless they've been super sneaky and this is from the Pariah Nexus sourcebook?

 Tastyfish wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:
Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?

We are not.

These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.

I was thinking back to the datasheets that seemed to be very light on abilities, there was some speculation that these weren't codex pages with Canoptek Doomstalkers and Lokhust destroyers on the same page, the latter with no resurrection protocols or destroyer cult rules (or even keywords).
No faction specific detailing to the pages either, which makes me think it's not the codex (can't see us going back to having bestiary sections) - wouldn't surprise me to see if they were in something like a "reinforcements" box. Unless they've been super sneaky and this is from the Pariah Nexus sourcebook?

Spoiler:

I thought it was confirmed those were from the starter boxes...

Datasheets provide you with rules for all the models in the set, plus a set of expansion options for when you want to branch out with new kits.

Those two units, along with the turret and go-kart, are included at the back of each of the booklets that come with the three new starter sets.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm just sitting here, disgruntled that another week goes by without the Firestrike Turret, Lokhust Destroyer and friends release

A post edition recharge break is perfectly normal and sensible.

Especially so with the current backlog.

I'm hoping the bike Chaplain and Primaris Techmarine aren't too far from release.

MajorWesJanson wrote:I'm just sitting here, disgruntled that another week goes by without the Firestrike Turret, Lokhust Destroyer and friends release

Remember how long ago LVO was this year? I have been waiting for Lumineth Realm Lords to be released since about then. I'm not sure you should be all that disgruntled having to wait a month or two. Just sayin'.

Kanluwen wrote:These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.

Very unlikely. The entirely of the Lumineth still have to be released as well as the Gargant model kit. I personally wouldn't expect to see any of the new space marine or necron models until much closer to when their respective codex is also released. Late September is possible, but I am thinking it will be more like October.

I'm not expecting the Lumineth stuff to start until week two, at least, for September. Thinking it will be set up in waves of Alarith(Stonemage, Stoneguard, and the Stonehearts), Vanari(Wardens, Sentinels, Dawnriders) with the Scinari Cathaller, then Teclis and Light of Eltharion to round it out?

With that said, it wouldn't be impossible for the easy build 40k stuff to launch alongside the Lumineth.

I'd not be suprised to see a handful of ETB marine stuff releasing in sept and those'll be our only 40k releases with the bulk of the month being AOS

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd not be suprised to see a handful of ETB marine stuff releasing in sept and those'll be our only 40k releases with the bulk of the month being AOS

Yeah, that's kinda what I expect as well. Maybe plans changed due to... everything, but the CA points and starter set profiles set up the ETB kits for marines and necrons as releases between starter sets and codex.
The previews of them suggest that may still be the case.

Sadly I don't think the Bike Chaplain is ETB.

Shame, I want him to lead my Outriders.

because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point

Why would you compare Necrons to anything in their current state? We are an incomplete force, we were left out of PA and our codex is still a few months away.
No other faction can claim that, we might as well be an index army.

If you still have concerns when the codex hits - voice them then.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not expecting the Lumineth stuff to start until week two, at least, for September. Thinking it will be set up in waves of Alarith(Stonemage, Stoneguard, and the Stonehearts), Vanari(Wardens, Sentinels, Dawnriders) with the Scinari Cathaller, then Teclis and Light of Eltharion to round it out?

With that said, it wouldn't be impossible for the easy build 40k stuff to launch alongside the Lumineth.

Novel comes to preorder 5th. Unless gw has habit of releasing tie in before actual product odds are good they come in 5th. And there's not that many kits(about 10) to be more than 2 weeks sensibly. Bonereapers　got about same or more in 1 week. And with corona catchup more likely to put 2 weeks to 1 than spread it out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sadly I don't think the Bike Chaplain is ETB.

Shame, I want him to lead my Outriders.

Seeing Astreia Solbright, his closest AoS equivalent is, I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. Especially seeing that of all SM leaders, Chaplains have the least options so having him out of all the possibilities be ETB is pretty reasonable choice.