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Not sure what I think, but I effing hope so!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just as something from the preview, it appears that the higher level of HQs (Chief Libby, Master of the Forge, etc.) are going to be something you have to pay points rather than CP for.

Do we think that this will be a concept that is used elsewhere, allowing for such things as Veteran Intercessors, Weirdboy Warpheads or even, dare I saw it, Trueborn DE Warriors, to re-enter the game via points rather than via CP expenditure?

This is a step in the right direction, and I hope we continue to see it used.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Do we think that this will be a concept that is used elsewhere, allowing for such things as Veteran Intercessors, Weirdboy Warpheads or even, dare I saw it, Trueborn DE Warriors, to re-enter the game via points rather than via CP expenditure?

Wasn't there something about Veteran Intercessors getting their own datasheet in the new Marine 'dex?

Might’ve been the Heavy Intercessors?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Might’ve been the Heavy Intercessors?

No, there is a Veteran Intercessors data sheet in the table of contents for the codex. It was spotted in the flip through of the codex in the first preview.

I really hope they do allow more customization to be done by spending points. Maybe csm can have our Veteran Abilities back.

Oh cool!

And yes. Veterans of the Long War deserve to be more than slightly more fighty against Marines.

Kinda hope that Veteran Intercessors are more then slight stat boost and includes the assault varierity.

Tbh the Protocols look like a blend of Ad Mech super-warlord traits and Daemon locuses. I think they'll be nice to have, but I wouldn't go nuts over it. Unfortunately I think a lot of people have been thinking they'll be the big draw, because the basic dynastic codes continue to look like of blah, but them's the breaks.

Really its all about the points.

A separate data sheet for vets IMO suggests something more than a regular Intercessor squad with a stat boost. Maybe a mixed squad like the DW kill teams?

Tyel wrote:
Tbh the Protocols look like a blend of Ad Mech super-warlord traits and Daemon locuses. I think they'll be nice to have, but I wouldn't go nuts over it. Unfortunately I think a lot of people have been thinking they'll be the big draw, because the basic dynastic codes continue to look like of blah, but them's the breaks.

Really its all about the points.

We don't know what the custom codes contain either, they might be better than the premades.

Right, I've looked through the WD battle report for marine hints and got the following:

Rites of War warlord trait: all <core> units get obsec within 6" of warlord.
Know no fear agenda: pass a morale test, get exp
"When the marines got into my lines and moved to assault doctrine they were brutal" - doctrines still present in some capacity

Dudeface wrote:
Right, I've looked through the WD battle report for marine hints and got the following:

Rites of War warlord trait: all <core> units get obsec within 6" of warlord.
Know no fear agenda: pass a morale test, get exp
"When the marines got into my lines and moved to assault doctrine they were brutal" - doctrines still present in some capacity

given the article says "move to assault doctrine" my theory that they could go back to the old "single use stratigium" approuch for doctrines is likely untrue.

 alextroy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules

I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.

Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.

Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.

What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.

yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.

Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.

tneva82 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules

I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.

Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.

Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.

What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.

yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.

Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.

Also, crypteks and royal wardens don't come with an invuln of any kind, so there goes the durability theory.

 Dreamchild wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules

I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.

Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.

Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.

What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.

yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.

Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.

Also, crypteks and royal wardens don't come with an invuln of any kind, so there goes the durability theory.

Currently.

 Dreamchild wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules

I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.

Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.

Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.

What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.

yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.

Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.

Also, crypteks and royal wardens don't come with an invuln of any kind, so there goes the durability theory.

Crypteks are also T4, W4 with a 4+ save... They are paper thin.

I guess Crypteks at least can take Cryptothralls to soak up fire for them for a turn or two, though you are paying, currently at least, 40 points for those extra 4 wounds. Plus they screen against sniper fire as well.

Shame Overlords don't have any option to screen themselves from sniper fire better but i guess we will see.

There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

That is something I noticed. I was worried about Canoness getting sniped but it would take a dedicated sniper squad most of a game to bring down a single Canoness. Death Guard characters are similar to Necron characters in durability and a dedicated character killing sniper team failed to even wound one of my DG characters.

I think snipers are better at tipping the odds against enemy characters in future close combats or finishing off wounded characters than they are at just out right killing them.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

Seems reasonable, too.

They didn't say it (or even hint at it) but I hope doctrines get hit by the same rule.

---
On the Necron side, though, I expect this is going to hit the (just expanded) My Will Be Done & Relentless March

Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

That's... almost reasonable? Are we sure GW is behind it?

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

Seems reasonable, too.

They didn't say it (or even hint at it) but I hope doctrines get hit by the same rule.

---
On the Necron side, though, I expect this is going to hit the (just expanded) My Will Be Done & Relentless March

That's a really good point, if doctrines are core only it'll take the sting out a lot.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.

Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

Less rerolls? I like it. I like it a LOT. And it will probably apply to things like psyckers, chaplains, dark apostles. Yeah, good change. Anything that helps kill WOMBO COMBO "tactics" is a good thing.

Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

Obviously we need to see how this plays out, especially with regards to which units do and don't get the "Core" keyword...

That being said I definitely see this as a net positive. On paper it seems like a happy middle ground between the "remove all auras" crowd and the "stack rerolls on rerolls on rerolls" crowd.

Will be interesting to see what auras need core and what don't....

From a deathguard perspective I expect re-roll 1s from daemon prince to only affect core.

But will arch contaminator only affect core? Unsure there...
Something like the Ironclot furnace I would imagine will not be limited to core.

'Auras are broken, so lets add another layer of rules to patch over it!'

 Lord Damocles wrote:
'Auras are broken, so lets add another layer of rules to patch over it!'

I'm sure instead of using keywords you can write a list of affected units on the dataslate of each unit if that takes a layer off for you.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

Obviously we need to see how this plays out, especially with regards to which units do and don't get the "Core" keyword...

That being said I definitely see this as a net positive. On paper it seems like a happy middle ground between the "remove all auras" crowd and the "stack rerolls on rerolls on rerolls" crowd.

This seems like a pretty positive change overall, and could have some pretty huge ramifications.

This isn't going to affect Necrons much, since nearly everything for us is moving to target abilities. So overall a Netbuff for Necrons it looks like.