Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion

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**Darsath**

Ohhhh, I think I get it now. If Reaimation Protocols activates, you get roll a number of RP dice equal to the total wounds of all models that were destroyed. Then, if you successfully reanimated one of more models, those dice are removed from the pool, and you roll again. If you fail to reanimate any models, you stop rolling.

**changemod**

Yeah as someone who already had an all destroyer cult 2000 point gimmick army from early 7th and was looking forwards to adding variety to it, this form of reanimation seems very poorly thought out.

A good take on reanimation should apply to troops, elite units and characters equally. Whilst the decurion was abysmally thought out garbage that you could see was anti-fun from a mile off, the basic reanimation rules from 7th at least managed that by being just FNP with few attached frills.

Maybe a wargame prone to bloat already doesn’t need a faction wide rule that took them half a page to explain, actually.

**Dudeface**

Xenomancers wrote:
unitled wrote:
Seems like RP is a more fiddly 5+++ then, except for multiwound models you'll need to hit the roll for EVERY WOUND they would have. Drastically reduces how good it is for units like destroyers.
Nah it is actually better than FNP. For 1 wound models that are destroyed - you only need 1 roll regardless of damage. Its still better than fnp on on larger wounds models too. Overkill is ignored and 1 5 plus can restore all your wounds. It is more swingy - but in the long run it ignores a lot of damage that FNP has to take account for. It's basically the best army wide rule now. It immediately puts crons on the map. I mean hell...All your infantry have a 4+++ if they are near a cryptec (provided a single unit does not wipe them). This is incredible durability.

Nope, on larger models you need a 5+ for each wound on its profile. You lose 1 skorpekh, you need 3 5+ or its gone permanently.

**Sasori**

Darsath wrote:
Ohhhh, I think I get it now. If Reaimation Protocols activates, you get roll a number of RP dice equal to the total wounds of all models that were destroyed. Then, if you successfully reanimated one of more models, those dice are removed from the pool, and you roll again. If you fail to reanimate any models, you stop rolling.

I don't think you roll again each time. I think it's just you roll for the pool once. and then start removing the 5+s and reanimation accordingly with the wounds.

**Super Ready**

One thing that strikes me as a little odd - the Ctan shard is only 9 Wounds, despite clearly being rather large and pretty dangerous. If it's a Character (and I'd be surprised if it's not), it's going to benefit from Look Out Sir.

**Kanluwen**

unitled wrote:
Any dice still in the pool are discarded after you've finished rolling, so no banking successes.

The weirdness to me is this: you're encouraged to commit enough shots to wipe out a unit then fire. But, you will get more multi wound models back if you roll more RP dice together. So, if you undershoot and get 18 wounds on a 20 wound unit, a good chunk of it is going to jump back up. Far more than if you'd done 18x 1 damage attacks seperately! EDIT: apologies, this is the point oni made above :slowpoke:

Remember that you're supposed to resolve all attacks made with weapons that have the same profile before resolving attacks with the next.

This isn't really a 'new' thing either for GW.

**Overread**

Darsath wrote:
Ohhhh, I think I get it now. If Reaimation Protocols activates, you get roll a number of RP dice equal to the total wounds of all models that were destroyed. Then, if you successfully reanimated one of more models, those dice are removed from the pool, and you roll again. If you fail to reanimate any models, you stop rolling.

Nope you only roll ONCE. You then remove dice from the pool to reanimate each model in the unit until you run out of dice/models to reanimate (or don't have enough dice to reanimate a model to its full number of wounds - 1 dice = 1 wound).

**Dudeface**

Well I was and am part of the "wait and see crowd" and I'm sure res orbs etc will have an amazing buff on reanimation protocols.

But at this stage my opinion is they made a mistake and somehow made it worse overall.

**Sunny Side Up**

Darsath wrote:
Ohhhh, I think I get it now. If Reaimation Protocols activates, you get roll a number of RP dice equal to the total wounds of all models that were destroyed. Then, if you successfully reanimated one of more models, those dice are removed from the pool, and you roll again. If you fail to reanimate any models, you stop rolling.

No. You roll as many dice as wounds of models destroyed in that enemy unit’s attack sequence (!). Each 5+ is your pool and you return as many models as you can make with that pool.

Models not returned are permanent-lost and not even in the pool for the roll after the next attack.

**BroodSpawn**

Mindless automaton's still throwing themselves in the way of damage/attacks to there now-bound god seems somewhat fitting though

**BorderCountess**

I don't mind it. Bigger bots need more work to fix. Besides, the rate at which full Destroyers kept getting back up was kinda ridiculous.

**Super Ready**

Sasori wrote:
Darsath wrote:
Ohhhh, I think I get it now. If Reaimation Protocols activates, you get roll a number of RP dice equal to the total wounds of all models that were destroyed. Then, if you successfully reanimated one of more models, those dice are removed from the pool, and you roll again. If you fail to reanimate any models, you stop rolling.

I don't think you roll again each time. I think it's just you roll for the pool once. and then start removing the 5+s and reanimation accordingly with the wounds.

Basically, yes. The initial rolls to create the pool are made together, however you then treat each particular model that's reanimated individually.
That probably becomes important due to interaction with some stratagem, or something - at first I thought it might be important for coherency reasons, but I note that the rule doesn't require you to set the reanimated models up in coherency. So you'd be ok to add an entire chunk back in one go specifically for that purpose.

Kanluwen wrote:
Remember that you're supposed to resolve all attacks made with weapons that have the same profile before resolving attacks with the next.

That isn't relevant for Reanimation Protocols, though.

"Each time an enemy unit shoots or fights, after it makes its attacks"
In other words, after you've resolved attacks from the entire unit.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Darsath wrote:
Ohhhh, I think I get it now. If Reaimation Protocols activates, you get roll a number of RP dice equal to the total wounds of all models that were destroyed. Then, if you successfully reanimated one of more models, those dice are removed from the pool, and you roll again. If you fail to reanimate any models, you stop rolling.

I see where you’re coming from, and going wrong (sorry if that sounds snippy, it’s not meant to!)

The Pool always refers to the successful dice.

And it’s from that Pool we remove dice once a single model has all its wounds healed, and this is technically done one at a time. So for Warriors healing from a pool of 5 successful rolls, it’s 1, 1, 1, 1, 1. No successful rolls are wasted.

For multi-wound models, from that same 5 success example? It’s 2, 2. Two models return to play. The remaining success is wasted, and does not carry over.

**Tiberius501**

I really like the new RP rule. It’s very long winded but I like the result. Multi wound models are harder to bring back (though still easier in a way with it being after every time an enemy unit attacks them), and makes weaker stuff more likely to keep coming back. Makes warriors and immortals cooler, and might stop so much destroyer spam like before.

**Doohicky**

The line: 'Repeat until there are no more reanimating models ...'

Makes me think there will be ways to roll more dice than total wounds of the models, otherwise that line is not needed
So maybe reanimation orb does something like roll 2 dice for each wound instead of 1.
Or gives a set number of extra dice etc etc.

I definitely feel there is a way to roll extra dice.

**tneva82**

unitled wrote:
Seems like RP is a more fiddly 5+++ then, except for multiwound models you'll need to hit the roll for EVERY WOUND they would have. Drastically reduces how good it is for units like destroyers.

Though if you don't get wiped out you roll and roll and　roll...though yes　1w units biggest benefitters if enemy can't wipe unit in one go(looks at　aggressors...)

Edit: whoops no. Well still better than now

**Dudeface**

The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

**tneva82**

BroodSpawn wrote:
All the C'Tan are characters (at least the 3 named shards are) so it's in;ine with the Deceiver/Nightbringer.

The RP though .. has questions.
Lychguard are 2w. Say one of them 'dies', that's 2 dice in the pool. To reanimate the Lychguard both dice would have to be 5+'s as you need as many 5+'s as the model has wounds to make them stand back up?

Am I missing something with that, or is it a lot harder to reanimate multi-wound models just with RP?

They are now. With new max 3w rule likely not

**vipoid**

I was really hoping that the new RP rule wouldn't still be tied to running max-sized units.

**unitled**

To an extent, it IS better than a FNP on low/1 wound models because it ignores multi damage. If your opponent is paying points for additional damage on weapons to kill primaris, they're points wasted against you as your bulky troop options straight up ignore it.

The real winners are obviously going to be Immortals (remember these lads are supposedly going to T5 as well!) and Warriors. Immortals are actually around as durable as Plague Marines are now, with the sole exception of if your opponent manages to get [SQUAD SIZE] of damage past your toughness and armour saves.

**Dudeface**

Tiberius501 wrote:
I really like the new RP rule. It’s very long winded but I like the result. Multi wound models are harder to bring back (though still easier in a way with it being after every time an enemy unit attacks them), and makes weaker stuff more likely to keep coming back. Makes warriors and immortals cooler, and might stop so much destroyer spam like before.

They get 1 try at getting up then dead. It's way worse for big models.

**vipoid**

Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Oh good. Because what RPs really needed was a stealth-nerf.

**Sunny Side Up**

Tiberius501 wrote:
I really like the new RP rule. It’s very long winded but I like the result. Multi wound models are harder to bring back (though still easier in a way with it being after every time an enemy unit attacks them), and makes weaker stuff more likely to keep coming back. Makes warriors and immortals cooler, and might stop so much destroyer spam like before.

Yes. though the pool is only 5+ of dice for wounds of models lost to a given enemy unit's attacks, not models lost previously. So the multiple roles for multi-wound models are likely to be a lot less efficient with more "wasted successes" than just one roll for everything lost at the end of a phase / turn / etc.. (aside from the unit being completely wiped).

**Quasistellar**

Overread wrote:
Given GW has worded it quite clearly it might well be that the codex offers multiple ways to boost at at different stages of the RP process. Hence why they've spelled it out clearly.

You might get options to boost the dice roll (only by +-1); or the ability to add dice to the pool or the ability to preserve the pool etc... There's quite a lot of flexibility in there to change the result.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quasistellar wrote:
The way I read it, you keep re-rolling (with a pool reduced by successes each time) until you have not enough successes to reanimate a model, or all the models are reanimated. In that way, it's even better than FnP for 1 wounds models.

You only roll once at the start. All the dice you roll which are 5+ get put into the pool. You then reduce the number of dice by wounds restored until you've not enough dice left to restore a model to full wounds; or you have no more models to restore. At that point all the dice left in the pool are lost.

If that unit gets attacked again by a different attacking unit then you'd roll again and create a brand new pool.

I'm sure you're right--it references "this pool", and the only pool mentioned is the pool of successful dice. I believe the "repeat this process" they are referring to is simply the placement of the reanimated models using successes.

**tneva82**

vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Oh good. Because what RPs really needed was a stealth-nerf.

Well hard to nerf non existant rule like rp 8e

**McMagnus Mindbullets**

Anyone gonna talk about how CRAZY the void dragon is?!

It's essentially morathi from aos. With the healing as well it is crazy

Essentially, if it doesn't take wounds in the first battle round and it kills a vehicle then it will last for the entire game. If it takes full 3 every round, but it kills 4 vehicles, it will last the entire game. Coupled with a brutal vehicle killer shooting attack and combat profile.

And that's on top of all the ctan MW shenanigans. Chuck this into someone's lines and it is a repeatedly exploding bomb of MW that physically cannot be removed.

Seriously, this is primarch level power here. Better than that as it can hide and it cannot be focused.

**buddha**

Will need to see the whole dex, particularly strategems, to get a feel on the new RP. Off the bat it looks good for any 1W models. Multi-wound though looks rough. If they would have let you revive with just the number of successes you made that would have made more sense.

Also, still a number of questions on characters and RP. It will next to useless if you need to roll five 5+ dice for an overlord or something to work.

Will need to know if Ctan keep the character rule.

Monolith looks great depending on the points.

**H.B.M.C.**

Seems weird to create a new RP rule that doesn't scale well with multi-wound models. W1 models are cool with this, but as soon as you get above W1 suddenly it becomes very hard to reanimate.

I guess that explains why Immortals stayed at W1 then...

And there's something amusing about the Shard of the Void Dragon having a Toughness value lower than a Wraithlord. GW remain petrified of Toughnesses above 7 for most things, despite introducing weapon Strengths that can go to infinity.

Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Given GW's usual writing standards I wonder if the person who concocted this new rule actually realised that.

**nintura**

My god man.... do NOT let the void dragon get near your vehicles. I'm hoping he's as hard to kill as he sounds.

**Tiberius501**

Dudeface wrote:
Tiberius501 wrote:
I really like the new RP rule. It’s very long winded but I like the result. Multi wound models are harder to bring back (though still easier in a way with it being after every time an enemy unit attacks them), and makes weaker stuff more likely to keep coming back. Makes warriors and immortals cooler, and might stop so much destroyer spam like before.

They get 1 try at getting up then dead. It's way worse for big models.

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.