Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Gadzilla666**

Neknoh wrote:
Again, allows armies such as Guard and Orks (which are more likely to bring a LoW at lower points) to bring a LoW in a 2k or 2.5k game without paying CP for it, while armies that have fewer of them in lore and not as much need for them on the tabletop can still bring them for CP at 2k, or bring them in as normal for 3k games with brigades.

Yeah, I figured that was where you were coming from. "If it works for my army it's cool".

What lore says csm have less LOW than guard and orks? Quick count gives me: Hellforged Fellblade, Falchion, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon, Mastodon, and three super heavy daemon engines: Khorne Lord of Skulls, Kytan Ravager, and the Greater Brass Scorpion. Seems like we have a couple.

**Mr Morden**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Neknoh wrote:
Again, allows armies such as Guard and Orks (which are more likely to bring a LoW at lower points) to bring a LoW in a 2k or 2.5k game without paying CP for it, while armies that have fewer of them in lore and not as much need for them on the tabletop can still bring them for CP at 2k, or bring them in as normal for 3k games with brigades.

Yeah, I figured that was where you were coming from. "If it works for my army it's cool".

What lore says csm have less LOW than guard and orks? Quick count gives me: Hellforged Fellblade, Falchion, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon, Mastodon, and three super heavy daemon engines: Khorne Lord of Skulls, Kytan Ravager, and the Greater Brass Scorpion. Seems like we have a couple.

Tryanids, Orks and Guard are "Quantity has its own Quality" - Ork scrap engines are usually described in large numbers.

Forgeworld makes vast amounts of Marine models - hence all the variants.

I am not sure however how you make this work - given how many of us have Knights painted to be part of our armies its a shame that its difficult to do it.

On the other hand there are a few armies who can't have them unless they ally?

**Darsath**

Only seen a little bit of the stuff on the C'tan. Thankfully, it looks like they don't get Look out Sir. So they shouldn't be as crazy OP. But all of them have the 9 Wounds and extra attack, plus living metal. Deceiver has been changed a little, now only strength 6 with 5 attacks (Damage 3 still), can redeploy 3 units in 1st battle round but only in your deployment zone (no turn 1 rapid fire shenanigans) but can still put units into reserve. So no roll for number of units, and being able to put units into reserve without spending command points like many have to right now. Also got a -1 to hit penalty against enemy attacks. Nightbringer is really spicy though. 6 Attacks and Strength 7 with 2 weapons profiles. One doubles his attacks, with ap -3 and 1 damage. The other is x2 strength ap -4 and d6 damage that ignores invulnerable saves. All of his attacks also ignore feel no pain type effects. Will say, Necrodermis with the cap on 3 damage per phase with living metal is pretty hot. Curious to get a good look on the c'tan powers for myself when I can.

**Gadzilla666**

Mr Morden wrote:

Spoiler:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Neknoh wrote:
Again, allows armies such as Guard and Orks (which are more likely to bring a LoW at lower points) to bring a LoW in a 2k or 2.5k game without paying CP for it, while armies that have fewer of them in lore and not as much need for them on the tabletop can still bring them for CP at 2k, or bring them in as normal for 3k games with brigades.

Yeah, I figured that was where you were coming from. "If it works for my army it's cool".

What lore says csm have less LOW than guard and orks? Quick count gives me: Hellforged Fellblade, Falchion, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon, Mastodon, and three super heavy daemon engines: Khorne Lord of Skulls, Kytan Ravager, and the Greater Brass Scorpion. Seems like we have a couple.

Tryanids, Orks and Guard are "Quantity has its own Quality" - Ork scrap engines are usually described in large numbers.

Forgeworld makes vast amounts of Marine models - hence all the variants.

I am not sure however how you make this work - given how many of us have Knights painted to be part of our armies its a shame that its difficult to do it.

On the other hand there are a few armies who can't have them unless they ally?

Well you can't fix the no LOWs without allies problem unless either gw makes one for each faction or they allow some to be used in factions similar to those that already have one. Dark Eldar could use the big Eldar grav tanks for example. GSC could get Baneblades with the Brood Brothers rule.

As for making it work, just add a LOW slot to battalions and brigades. There's no reason to need extra tax units, that's no better than paying 3CP. And as far as lower points games go, I'm not too keen on LOWs below 2000 points. Below that they can turn an army into a skew list fast.

**Neknoh**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Neknoh wrote:
Again, allows armies such as Guard and Orks (which are more likely to bring a LoW at lower points) to bring a LoW in a 2k or 2.5k game without paying CP for it, while armies that have fewer of them in lore and not as much need for them on the tabletop can still bring them for CP at 2k, or bring them in as normal for 3k games with brigades.

Yeah, I figured that was where you were coming from. "If it works for my army it's cool".

What lore says csm have less LOW than guard and orks? Quick count gives me: Hellforged Fellblade, Falchion, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon, Mastodon, and three super heavy daemon engines: Khorne Lord of Skulls, Kytan Ravager, and the Greater Brass Scorpion. Seems like we have a couple.

Out of my 6 armies, only one is guard, the others are Salamanders, Silver Templars, Death Guard, Red Corsairs and Necrons

the Imperial Guard and Orks both field more superheavies per major battle under their own direct control than any SM chapter or CSM Renegade force in lore (more than Tau, Eldar and Necrons as well, Tyranids can be discussed, but a proper hive fleet landing does have more biotitans than entire chapter conglomerations have thunderhawks), this is however lore-based rather than based on table balance.

**MonkeyBallistic**

I don’t know if this has been mentioned before, but it just occurred to me that there has been no digital release of the new rule book and no mention of digital releases of the new codices.

Are GW stopping these in favour of the app? If so, that kind of sucks. I’ve been buying all my GW books digitally for years now and much prefer that format.

**AduroT**

MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I don’t know if this has been mentioned before, but it just occurred to me that there has been no digital release of the new rule book and no mention of digital releases of the new codices.

Are GW stopping these in favour of the app? If so, that kind of sucks. I’ve been buying all my GW books digitally for years now and much prefer that format.

Yes. They have decided they don’t want me to give them money for the PDFs I’m still going to seek out. Not only is the app the only digital rules, but to get the rules in the app you have to buy the physical book. You can not get the app rules separate. It is the dumbest. I’m curious if/how they’re going to get Chapter Approved in there, because those didn’t have codes.

**Neknoh**

Well, digital won't need a preorder so there might not be a focus on that (also helps prevent early epub/pdf leaks)

Also, we know that individual codexes in the app can be tied to accounts since you can redeem codes from the back of the book to permanently unlock those entries for you in the app itself without needing a subscription

**Gadzilla666**

Neknoh wrote:

Spoiler:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Neknoh wrote:
Again, allows armies such as Guard and Orks (which are more likely to bring a LoW at lower points) to bring a LoW in a 2k or 2.5k game without paying CP for it, while armies that have fewer of them in lore and not as much need for them on the tabletop can still bring them for CP at 2k, or bring them in as normal for 3k games with brigades.

Yeah, I figured that was where you were coming from. "If it works for my army it's cool".

What lore says csm have less LOW than guard and orks? Quick count gives me: Hellforged Fellblade, Falchion, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon, Mastodon, and three super heavy daemon engines: Khorne Lord of Skulls, Kytan Ravager, and the Greater Brass Scorpion. Seems like we have a couple.

Out of my 6 armies, only one is guard, the others are Salamanders, Silver Templars, Death Guard, Red Corsairs and Necrons

the Imperial Guard and Orks both field more superheavies per major battle under their own direct control than any SM chapter or CSM Renegade force in lore (more than Tau, Eldar and Necrons as well, Tyranids can be discussed, but a proper hive fleet landing does have more biotitans than entire chapter conglomerations have thunderhawks), this is however lore-based rather than based on table balance.

And that means no one else should use them because? Look, we had a thread about what to do about the super heavy auxiliary detachment a couple weeks back in general, maybe it would be more appropriate to discuss this there? But I'd just like to point out that I don't play renegades, I play Legionnaires, and Legionnaires use Legion weapons, like super heavys.

**Tiberius501**

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but seems like a few youtubers have put up reviews for the codexes.

**Darsath**

Lychguard minor buff on Dispersion Shields now being the same as storm shields. 4+ invuln and +1 armour save. So they'd have a 2+ armour save now.

**Gadzilla666**

Has anyone seen any dreadnought data sheets? Someone over on B&C said they all had -1 to incoming damage. I need to know if this is true, especially for the Contemptor.

**AduroT**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Has anyone seen any dreadnought data sheets? Someone over on B&C said they all had -1 to incoming damage. I need to know if this is true, especially for the Contemptor.

I saw that in a review as well. All Dreads have the old Strat baked in and always on.

**Spoletta**

Contemptors are also 9 wounds now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would have liked for ALL vehicles and monsters to get the -1 damage rule. It would have finally set the D2 and D3 damage weapons as anti infantry, while leaving higher damage weapons as AT.

The new power level of AT weapons would have been justified in that case.

**Gadzilla666**

Spoletta wrote:
Contemptors are also 9 wounds now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would have liked for ALL vehicles and monsters to get the -1 damage rule. It would have finally set the D2 and D3 damage weapons as anti infantry, while leaving higher damage weapons as AT.

The new power level of AT weapons would have been justified in that case.

Agreed. And if chaos doesn't get the -1 to damage rule for our dreads there will be salt. I need to see the Imperial Armour Compendium yesterday.

**Darsath**

Nightscythes operate like normal transports now. Can carry up to 20 models. Can now deploy a character with a unit of lychguard or the like. Monolith has a 2+ armour save, but no invuln. Same for Obelisk. Obelisk's gravity pulse now halves the movement of a single enemy unit with fly within 24". If it's an aircraft model, you also roll 2d6, subtract the model's toughness from the result, and inflict that many mortal wounds.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Sasori wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Any leaked dataslates for Necrons? Curious to see the new Crypteks.

Just the Chronomancer and Plasmancer: 80 and 70 pts respectively before Arkana.

Chronomancer :
Equipped with aeon scepter, (melee weapon)
Aeon scepter ( shooting) 18” assault D3 S5 -2 AP 1D Blast invulnerable saves can not be made against each attack from this weapon
Entropic lance ( shooting) 18” assault 1 S8 -3 AP D3+3D
Aeon scepter (melee) S. User -2 AP 1 damage invulnerable saves can not be made against each attack from this weapon
(melee weapon) : each time user fights with this weapon, makes 3 extra attacks with it
Entropic lance (melee) S. User -3 AP 3D

Aeon scepter can be replaced with entropic lance

Living metal, command protocols
Dynastic advisors :
If your army is battle forged, for each cryptek unit (except dynastic agent) included in a detachment that contains at least one noble unit, a second cryptek unit (except dynastic agent) can also be included in the detachment without taking a tactical role slot

Uchronic cape : this model has a 4+ invulnerable save

Chronometron : in your command phase, you can select a <dynasty> unit within 9” from this model. Until the beginning of your next command phase, you can reroll all charge rolls for the unit, and models in the unit have a 5+ invulnerable save

Plasmancer

Living metal, command protocols

Dynastic advisors :
If your army is battle forged, for each cryptek unit (except dynastic agent) included in a detachment that contains at least one noble unit, a second cryptek unit (except dynastic agent) can also be included in the detachment without taking a tactical role slot

Something Lightning (Aura)
At the start of the fight phase roll 1d6 for each enemy unit within 6” if this model, on 4+ that unit suffers 1 mortal wound

Harbinger of Destruction
At the end of your movement phase, if this model has not fallen back. You can select the nearest visible enemy unit with 18”. If you do, roll 3d6, for each 4+ that unit suffers a mortal wound

Do you have the source? Apparently it's in French, I would like to read it myself.

**Neknoh**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Neknoh wrote:

Spoiler:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Neknoh wrote:
Again, allows armies such as Guard and Orks (which are more likely to bring a LoW at lower points) to bring a LoW in a 2k or 2.5k game without paying CP for it, while armies that have fewer of them in lore and not as much need for them on the tabletop can still bring them for CP at 2k, or bring them in as normal for 3k games with brigades.

Yeah, I figured that was where you were coming from. "If it works for my army it's cool".

What lore says csm have less LOW than guard and orks? Quick count gives me: Hellforged Fellblade, Falchion, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon, Mastodon, and three super heavy daemon engines: Khorne Lord of Skulls, Kytan Ravager, and the Greater Brass Scorpion. Seems like we have a couple.

Out of my 6 armies, only one is guard, the others are Salamanders, Silver Templars, Death Guard, Red Corsairs and Necrons

the Imperial Guard and Orks both field more superheavies per major battle under their own direct control than any SM chapter or CSM Renegade force in lore (more than Tau, Eldar and Necrons as well, Tyranids can be discussed, but a proper hive fleet landing does have more biotitans than entire chapter conglomerations have thunderhawks), this is however lore-based rather than based on table balance.

And that means no one else should use them because? Look, we had a thread about what to do about the super heavy auxiliary detachment a couple weeks back in general, maybe it would be more appropriate to discuss this there? But I'd just like to point out that I don't play renegades, I play Legionnaires, and Legionnaires use Legion weapons, like super heavys.

All I'm saying is that a Brigade represents a large enough army where a free superheavy slot makes sense and would give a good incitament to field a brigade. A battalion with a free slot could mean superheavies in 1k games or smaller with armies like guard or orks. Minimum battalion points values can be as low as 150pts to unlock that superheavy without paying CP for it.

Nowhere did I say that the auxiliary detachment should be removed to prevent battalions from bringing them, just that the free slot makes more sense lore wise in a brigade and probably bakance wise as wemm

**Super Ready**

...ok, did nobody else spot the mention of Legion Of The Damned on that last pic?! Or am I the only one excited about it...?
They've barely had a proper Codex mention since Grey Knights started getting Codexes, leaving them and Assassins as the only "special", limited Imperial allies (and these days, Inquisitors too I guess). I was beginning to worry they'd be quietly squatted over time.

**Doohicky**

Lychguard new special rule stopping characters getting sniped.

(Paraphrasing here) If a character is within 3" of lychguard that character is untargetable by shooting attacks

**Mr Morden**

Super Ready wrote:
...ok, did nobody else spot the mention of Legion Of The Damned on that last pic?! Or am I the only one excited about it...?
They've barely had a proper Codex mention since Grey Knights started getting Codexes, leaving them and Assassins as the only "special", limited Imperial allies (and these days, Inquisitors too I guess). I was beginning to worry they'd be quietly squatted over time.

They are good propects for a supplement - they use standard Marine units - so a few special rules on to make it rules lite.

Special character makes a nice small release and recyled lore mixed with new tit bits - will there be Primaris Legion units.

It seems like Inquisitors/Assassins are less likely - getting thrown into half assed campaign books or WD

**xttz**

Just realised I can no longer take a Battlalion or Brigade with my marine army now that scouts have moved to Elite. The only other troops I own are 10 Intercessors.

Dudeface wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Neknoh wrote:
Brigade getting a free LoW would make a lot of sense, meaning that you could bring them in specialised lists (6 troops +LoW would easily be 1-1.5k alone) and big games without feeling nerfed by doing so.

Battalion would probably be a bit too easy.

We should email the GW FAQ/Errata team with this suggestion tbh

Making a brigade with a LOW using many armies would be near impossible. Try writing a csm brigade with one. Battalions would work better. You could take a LOW in 7th in a combined arms detachment with only one HQ and two troops as mandatory slots, and it wasn't a problem.

Cheapest csm brigade without relying on fw is 1284 I think but it is pure trash.

I think the simplest fix is a combination of existing special rules for Battlalions and Brigades. Stick this after Command Benefits / Dedicated Transports:

Lord of War: Can include 1 if your WARLORD is part of this detachment.

**Gadzilla666**

Neknoh wrote:
All I'm saying is that a Brigade represents a large enough army where a free superheavy slot makes sense and would give a good incitament to field a brigade. A battalion with a free slot could mean superheavies in 1k games or smaller with armies like guard or orks. Minimum battalion points values can be as low as 150pts to unlock that superheavy without paying CP for it.

I don't think LOWs should be available below 2000 points either, that's why you make a rule banning them below that threshold just like in HH. You don't make one that only benefits factions with lots of cheap units at the expense of those that don't.

Nowhere did I say that the auxiliary detachment should be removed to prevent battalions from bringing them, just that the free slot makes more sense lore wise in a brigade and probably bakance wise as wemm

No, you said that armies that can't make a functional brigade with enough points left over to pay for a LOW could just take the 3CP hit in addition to paying the points for the unit. That isn't an equal playing field.

Now back to the topic. Dreadnought chainfists are flat D6 against vehicles. My double chainclaw Contemptor likes this news.

**Justyn**

This might be the most exciting bit out of all of that!

That page really just says: Space Wolf players you don't really need this book at all.

**Neknoh**

Mr Morden wrote:
Super Ready wrote:
...ok, did nobody else spot the mention of Legion Of The Damned on that last pic?! Or am I the only one excited about it...?
They've barely had a proper Codex mention since Grey Knights started getting Codexes, leaving them and Assassins as the only "special", limited Imperial allies (and these days, Inquisitors too I guess). I was beginning to worry they'd be quietly squatted over time.

They are good propects for a supplement - they use standard Marine units - so a few special rules on to make it rules lite.

Special character makes a nice small release and recyled lore mixed with new tit bits - will there be Primaris Legion units.

It seems like Inquisitors/Assassins are less likely - getting thrown into half assed campaign books or WD

2 characters, some stratagems, maybe a unique chapter tactic
Throw in a small upgrade box like we have for most chapters by now, a pack of datacards and a small box of objective markers and boom, a full release that could have been dropped as a fancy, 20 dollar white dwarf, but now can be sold as several 40 dollar items! Perfect for GW

**CKO**

What page can I find the Necron turn by turn protocals at?

**Duras1989**

Question:

Has Amalgamated targeting data been removed? if so then trippled DS are not gonna be as popular as before

**Cryptek of Awesome**

CKO wrote:
What page can I find the Necron turn by turn protocals at?

Page 43

**Super Ready**

Justyn wrote:
This might be the most exciting bit out of all of that!

That page really just says: Space Wolf players you don't really need this book at all.

Unless Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Long Fangs are in the main Codex separately? I'd doubt it, but I know the big book's had the Black Templars combined brother/scout Crusader squads before.
Also judging by the shot of the Terminator squad, it looks like Wolf Guard Terminators are covered there, maybe other Wolf Guard too.

**Crimson**

Has there been any mention whether there has been any changes to sternguard and company veterans besides the extra wound?