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 Castozor wrote:

Spoiler:

 Ghaz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

Space Wolves have a pretty big grudge with Magnus and the Thousand Sons...

And WE/BT have a big grudge against all psykers period. Were are their special units?

In their unreleased 9th edition codex/supplement...

 Ghaz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

Space Wolves have a pretty big grudge with Magnus and the Thousand Sons...

Ultramarines have a grudge with word bearers who summon lots, with nids who have a psychic blanket. Death guard have a grudge against the thousand sons, magnus and generally dislike psykers. Black templars hate psykers. World eaters and khorne daemons view sorcery as cowardly and hate it. Sisters hunt down rogue psykers in imperial populace under the Inquisitors guidance.

Lots of armies hate various psykers, none of them really have a unit devoted to it, it doesn't make sense.

If they'd just been primaris wolf scouts with some random special rules around hunting, that would raise far fewer eyebrows.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sisters of Battle are the militant arm for Ordo Hereticus--but they aren't dedicated witchhunters. There's definitely an argument to be made that they do have a bit of flavor there, but it seems to be more in the Condemnor Boltgun than anything else.

lol that thing .
Now do Black Templars and World Eaters, I'm all hears .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sisters of Battle are the militant arm for Ordo Hereticus--but they aren't dedicated witchhunters. There's definitely an argument to be made that they do have a bit of flavor there, but it seems to be more in the Condemnor Boltgun than anything else.

lol that thing .
Now do Black Templars and World Eaters, I'm all hears .

why ? the answer's clear, we are allready back to seeing WE players play red painted SW because frankly that is about the only way you'd get something decent as a WE player...
We are at a point were the supposed unorderly individualistic and narcistic CSM have less customizability and options to play according to the respective subfactions background then SM , a supposedly far more homogenous faction overall with subfaction deviancy in there even getting lowered considering all accepted primaris.

yeah, we are at that point again once more.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sisters of Battle are the militant arm for Ordo Hereticus--but they aren't dedicated witchhunters. There's definitely an argument to be made that they do have a bit of flavor there, but it seems to be more in the Condemnor Boltgun than anything else.

lol that thing .
Now do Black Templars and World Eaters, I'm all hears .

why ? the answer's clear, we are allready back to seeing WE players play red painted SW because frankly that is about the only way you'd get something decent as a WE player...
We are at a point were the supposed unorderly individualistic and narcistic CSM have less customizability and options to play according to the respective subfactions background then SM , a supposedly far more homogenous faction overall with subfaction deviancy in there even getting lowered considering all accepted primaris.

yeah, we are at that point again once more.

I chuckled at this, but I dare say you're probably right.

 Leth wrote:
Why are people honestly expecting a cap? There is zero indication that anything of the like is in the pipes. It would be odd to release the index and then suddenly have additional restrictions on unit composition.

I feel like the people commenting never read the index, it has 4 kill teams in it.

Well considering the rules specifically say that they are infantry I would ask the English what the words in their language actually mean.

Actually, that's a fair point - I didn't read the DW Index, especially not looking for new units when they had a Supplement coming up. At best, I thought it'd maintain existing units, not add new ones.

I'm doubly surprised to find Cassius as a character in there - that's a gap I didn't think they'd ever fill.

Kill Teams read oddly in there - I think I need to grab my copy of the DW Codex and read them next to each other to see if I'm following it.

Also, wow - Kill Team Cassius, with both characters, is 23 PL on its own? Ouch.

Dudeface wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sisters of Battle are the militant arm for Ordo Hereticus--but they aren't dedicated witchhunters. There's definitely an argument to be made that they do have a bit of flavor there, but it seems to be more in the Condemnor Boltgun than anything else.

lol that thing .
Now do Black Templars and World Eaters, I'm all hears .

why ? the answer's clear, we are allready back to seeing WE players play red painted SW because frankly that is about the only way you'd get something decent as a WE player...
We are at a point were the supposed unorderly individualistic and narcistic CSM have less customizability and options to play according to the respective subfactions background then SM , a supposedly far more homogenous faction overall with subfaction deviancy in there even getting lowered considering all accepted primaris.

yeah, we are at that point again once more.

I chuckled at this, but I dare say you're probably right.

i mean it isn't even a new phenomenon, WE players were some years ago in the same situation --> 5th broken SW or 4th CSM dex isn't even a choice.
except longterm it damages a faction and it's identity, leads to further player conglomeration AND by virtue of that to a more boring more restricted game.

Dudeface wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

Space Wolves have a pretty big grudge with Magnus and the Thousand Sons...

Ultramarines have a grudge with word bearers who summon lots, with nids who have a psychic blanket. Death guard have a grudge against the thousand sons, magnus and generally dislike psykers. Black templars hate psykers. World eaters and khorne daemons view sorcery as cowardly and hate it. Sisters hunt down rogue psykers in imperial populace under the Inquisitors guidance.

Lots of armies hate various psykers, none of them really have a unit devoted to it, it doesn't make sense.

If they'd just been primaris wolf scouts with some random special rules around hunting, that would raise far fewer eyebrows.

Ultramarines have been more defined by their grudge with Tyranids over the past few editions then with the word bearers. and specificly where given an anti-tyranid unit in the form of tyrannic war veterns.

Dudeface wrote:


If they'd just been primaris wolf scouts with some random special rules around hunting, that would raise far fewer eyebrows.

Why can't they have some new fluff that happens to give them an anti-psyker unit though? Fluff evolves, and if they can't make a slight course change left or right sometimes, and have to be tunnelled further into whatever their existing lore is, so that the psykeriest armies are always the guys that get psykers, and the shooty armies are always expanded with big guns, that means the wolfiest armies just get to a point where they literally have guys riding around on giant wolves. That would be hilariously stupid and bad, wouldn't it? It also leads to stuff like Matt Wards legendary Codex BA which included, quote -

Ward devises new weapons and abilities for the blood angels, giving them evocative names like blood fists, blood talons, blood reavers, blood croziuses, blood lances, blood boil, bloodshard bolts, and bloodstrike missiles.

How about we don't do that, and let the Wolves have some Psyker hunters, and maybe give the Imperial Fists, I dunno, an decent assault unit occasionally? (I'm not saying they don't have this already, frankly I don't know, but your argument seems to preclude the possibility of this, based on established lore and an apparent preference for Flanderisation).

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoiler:

Dudeface wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

Space Wolves have a pretty big grudge with Magnus and the Thousand Sons...

Ultramarines have a grudge with word bearers who summon lots, with nids who have a psychic blanket. Death guard have a grudge against the thousand sons, magnus and generally dislike psykers. Black templars hate psykers. World eaters and khorne daemons view sorcery as cowardly and hate it. Sisters hunt down rogue psykers in imperial populace under the Inquisitors guidance.

Lots of armies hate various psykers, none of them really have a unit devoted to it, it doesn't make sense.

If they'd just been primaris wolf scouts with some random special rules around hunting, that would raise far fewer eyebrows.

Ultramarines have been more defined by their grudge with Tyranids over the past few editions then with the word bearers. and specificly where given an anti-tyranid unit in the form of tyrannic war veterns.

Whilst true, they've recently been pitching the wolves against orks in the fluff and releases for the last few years as much as anything else.

JWBS wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


If they'd just been primaris wolf scouts with some random special rules around hunting, that would raise far fewer eyebrows.

Why can't they have some new fluff that happens to give them an anti-psyker unit though? Fluff evolves, and if they can't make a slight course change left or right sometimes, and have to be tunnelled further into whatever their existing lore is, so that the psykeriest armies are always the guys that get psykers, and the shooty armies are always expanded with big guns, that means the wolfiest armies just get to a point where they literally have guys riding around on giant wolves. That would be hilariously stupid and bad, wouldn't it? It also leads to stuff like Matt Wards legendary Codex BA which included, quote -

Ward devises new weapons and abilities for the blood angels, giving them evocative names like blood fists, blood talons, blood reavers, blood croziuses, blood lances, blood boil, bloodshard bolts, and bloodstrike missiles.

How about we don't do that, and let the Wolves have some Psyker hunters, and maybe give the Imperial Fists, I dunno, an decent assault unit occasionally? (I'm not saying they don't have this already, frankly I don't know, but your argument seems to preclude the possibility of this, based on established lore and an apparent preference for Flanderisation).

Of course they can, but it would seem more prudent to put those sorts of units in armies whose existing fluff supports it but don't have them surely?

Either way I don't want to derail further, different strokes for different folks.

I'm saying it's by no means an egregious addition, it's supported by fluff, and if we only accept witch hunters into the actual Ordo Hereticus, we eventually end up with Thunderwolf cavalry.

Did anyone else notice that that new DW psychic power lowers attacks of an enemy unit, but does NOT have a cap on it? If the unit you are using it on only has one attack, they go down to ZERO attacks.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Did anyone else notice that that new DW psychic power lowers attacks of an enemy unit, but does NOT have a cap on it? If the unit you are using it on only has one attack, they go down to ZERO attacks.

general rules note you can only reduce something down to 1. IIRC

BrianDavion wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Did anyone else notice that that new DW psychic power lowers attacks of an enemy unit, but does NOT have a cap on it? If the unit you are using it on only has one attack, they go down to ZERO attacks.

general rules note you can only reduce something down to 1. IIRC

Specific stats, but correct for attacks.

Page 203 main rule book, Modifying Characteristics; "Regardless of the source, the Strength, Toughness, Attacks and Leadership characteristics of a model can never be modified below 1."

Which realistically leaves Movement that can be modified below 0 (and Wounds, but that's obvious).

Ahh okay, so they moved that stipulation to the core rules.

So, biggest thing i am waiting on more detail for now, is the Mission Tactics rule.

How does it work when you have 1 DW detachment and 1 SM detachment... Because the way i am reading how it affects your "army" is making me think it is going to be busted for things like DW/WS and DW/RG mixes.

Kdash wrote:
So, biggest thing i am waiting on more detail for now, is the Mission Tactics rule.

How does it work when you have 1 DW detachment and 1 SM detachment... Because the way i am reading how it affects your "army" is making me think it is going to be busted for things like DW/WS and DW/RG mixes.

If the Deathwatch specific modification to Doctrines is worded analogously to the parent Doctrines rule, it will only work if all your detachments are Deathwatch. So a combined generic/custom chapter and Deathwatch would still be all-Astartes and so get normal Doctrines but no Deathwatch switcheroo.

Yeah, seems like Mission Tactics is the Death Watch "super-doctrine".

Ultramarines get "counts as stationary" in tactical
White Scars get "+1 cc-damage if charging" in assault
Death Watch get "you can do doctrine-switcheroo".

I wonder if Slannesh busting loose in AoS will coinside with a new Daemons codex.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Yeah, seems like Mission Tactics is the Death Watch "super-doctrine".

Ultramarines get "counts as stationary" in tactical
White Scars get "+1 cc-damage if charging" in assault
Death Watch get "you can do doctrine-switcheroo".

I haven't gotten to play since 9th edition, but based on what I've seen in batreps, being able to move Devastator Doctrine to turn 2 or Assault to turn 1 or 2 is pretty sweet, and the more I think about it, the more I believe it's even better than some (not all) of the other chapters' super doctrines.

There's so many times where I've seen turn 1 devastator be wasted due to line of sight or range, or 1st/2nd turn charges that could have really used assault doctrine.

 dan2026 wrote:
I wonder if Slannesh busting loose in AoS will coinside with a new Daemons codex.

Given that the Slaaneshi stuff we've seen so far appears to be for mortals, not daemons, I think EC making their long-overdue appearance is more likely

Wolfy Crusade Preview is up.

Yikes... so other than the codexes which are 8 copies every one of the upcoming stuff this weekend is limited to 2 copies per store. Combat Patrol, Outriders, Ghaz, etc. a store will only get 2 of each.

Wayniac wrote:
Yikes... so other than the codexes which are 8 copies every one of the upcoming stuff this weekend is limited to 2 copies per store. Combat Patrol, Outriders, Ghaz, etc. a store will only get 2 of each.

GW's still ahving production issues I guess

Wayniac wrote:
Yikes... so other than the codexes which are 8 copies every one of the upcoming stuff this weekend is limited to 2 copies per store. Combat Patrol, Outriders, Ghaz, etc. a store will only get 2 of each.

Yeah, they're trying to fight shortages. The necron codex is out of stock in the US.
Doomstalkers, too, which is personally aggravating. I preordered one, and... it didn't show up (everything else did, it just wasn't in the box). Its now out of stock so they couldn't send a replacement. [Got a 'voucher refund' which isn't ideal, but works for a future order and gets me out of dealing with their Custserv shortfalls, so I can live with them not taking my money and telling me to go feth myself]

Anyway, Hexmarks have been in and out of stock (currently back in), several other new kits are out (void dragon, techmarine and bike chaplain), and they never did get all the older necron stuff back into stock... its kind of a mess. And apparently only the gods of the sea know what's happening to Australian shipments.

So limits make a lot of sense to me. It isn't great, but their system is clearly stretched.

*taps fingers as he waits for the Biker Chaplain*

I hope we start to see them soon.

https://spikeybits.com/2020/10/9th-edition-deathwatch-codex-40k-rules-spotted.html

Deathwatch seem pretty good at a glance.

Imgur link for those that want to avoid Spikeybits.

https://imgur.com/a/rgFKOCS

Is that a disembodied Eldar head being weaponized as a psionic device of some kind?

How delightfully grimdark. And extra-heretical.

Now how many of those awesome devices have rules?