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Ironically, two shot multi-meltas are also great for killing eradicators

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Sumilidon wrote:
In GW's defence - they don't care. They made some models, they want those models to sell. Double shooting meltas? Sure, why not? Space Marines stronger than Custodes - sounds a great seller. That ATV bike (depending on points) is going to be awesome. In contrast, the new Necron units are a bit "meh" and for good reason. You don't want your new and fresh cash-cow marine players getting disillusioned by their primary opponent having something better than them.

You think they are good now? Wait until the multi-part kits come out. In my experience, the multi-part kits always come with an option that is better than what comes in the standard box - otherwise why would anyone pay a premium for the multi-part set? Never fear however, GW will have made all the newer updates more powerful up until 2 years time when they release a load of new Primaris models and buff the army again.

"Don't fight it. Buy Primaris today." - GW Slogan since 2018

The ATV is 85.
An old marine Attack Bike w/ MM is 55 points. 25 extra points over an ATV you can get two attack bikes.

Both of these will have the exact same wounds, toughness, attacks, etc.

The ATV has 6 S4 and 2 MM shots.
The Attack Bikes have 8 S4 and 4 MM shots.

So the Attack Bikes are basically an ATV that paid for a second MM. Can you tell me how that makes the ATV wildly better without some special rule?

You compare against redundant marines where I am looking at those many armies which are not marines. The gun for example at half range is not 2d6 pick highest like a normal multi melta, it’s a 2 shot, 1d6 plus 2 meaning higher potential and better reliability. 14 inch movement is awesome, 8 wounds and so forth - that’s fantastic value for the points when you compare against other units at that points level, especially in a game looking very much to be based around speed. You also get the benefit of not being the old and ugly model (although the new one reminds me of the very old Ork buggy model from the mid-90s). A few of these can really punch holes in vehicles which are one of the real winners this edition, with the speed and decent durability to make the most of those melt as.

Tyel wrote:

Continue to doubt MMs will get this buff, because if all multimeltas are 2 shots AP-4, damage of D6+2 if in half range or whatever then they just laugh at lascannons and las-equivalent weapons in other factions. Which maybe could perhaps be fixed with points etc - but it seems like a massive gap.

Points leaks gave the Multimelta a cost of 20 to the Lascannon 15. Two shots is the way to make that make sense.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Tyel wrote:

Continue to doubt MMs will get this buff, because if all multimeltas are 2 shots AP-4, damage of D6+2 if in half range or whatever then they just laugh at lascannons and las-equivalent weapons in other factions. Which maybe could perhaps be fixed with points etc - but it seems like a massive gap.

Points leaks gave the Multimelta a cost of 20 to the Lascannon 15. Two shots is the way to make that make sense.

You'd think that but I'm like 90% sure at the beginning of 8th Multi-Meltas were actually more expensive than Lascannons.

Slightly, yes. Index values were:
Multimelta 27
Lascannon 25

For marines anyway.
For guard, both were 20.

Voss wrote:
Slightly, yes. Index values were:
Multimelta 27
Lascannon 25

For marines anyway.
For guard, both were 20.

Which shows GW overvaluing 1 shot weapons.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:
I can't really speak for HH, but flare shields are a pretty common vehicle upgrades (it's not even standard equipment) and the tank isn't especially fast,

Flare shields are not common. In fact, a Land Raider cannot take them, which is the vehicle in question with which the Malcador is being compared. As for fast, the Malcador in the Solar Auxilia and Imperialis Militia army lists has the FAST special rule, and the legion one can fire its main gun after going Flat Out. That means it can go 18" a turn and fire, faster than any other tank in the game that isn't a skimmer.

 Eipi10 wrote:
it just can shoot its main gun at full BS when it moves flat-out (the HH equivalent of advance), in fact, the lore reason is the same as LR's grinding advance.

No it isn't. The Leman Russ can only fire at Combat Speed in HH (out side of a once-per-game ability available only to one type of tank in the Solar Auxilia, which lets them go 12" and shoot. Still slower than the Malcador), which is 6". There's definitely a speed difference (and lore difference) between 6 and 18 inches in a turn while still being able to engage targets with the main armament.

 Eipi10 wrote:
And while I am talking about lore I don't know where you are getting the bit about its drive system being temperamental or it being fast, the HH books state the exact opposite. EDIT: I checked Lexicanum and it is also right; I don't know what source you used, but FW certainly isn't to blame.

Sub-atomantic Reactor
The Malcador assault tanks found in the armouries of the Space Marine Legions are the oldest of their kind still in service, relics manufactured on Terra using facilities dating back to the Age of Strife. While hugely reliable, their power plants —hybrid reactor/combustor engine cores— lack the power of those found on the larger and more powerful war machines that largely replaced them in service. When rolling on the Tunderblitz and/or Catastrophic Damage tables for the Malcador, roll 2D6 and select the lower result.

You're confusing 30k with 40k Malcadors. In 30k, the Malcador is faster than any other tank (see above) while still being able to fire its gun. In 40k, it's drive system is temperamental because the AdMech have forgotten how to build it. Check out the rules in Imperial Armor Volume 1: Second Edition, for example.

 Eipi10 wrote:
In 40k, the Malcador is supposed to fall somewhere between a Russ and a Baneblade (obviously), but since it has the same amount of guns as Russ, and they don't want to do the extra work of making a special rule to buff its damage (like a different battle cannon variant), the only other option is to increase its wounds and they chose to do that in the simplest way possible, +50% wounds and +50% cost over the Russ.

Yes, this is I think how it was done.

I meant compared to the 40k LR grinding advance, and I am not familiar with the solar auxilia Malcador, I assumed it was the same as the legion one. And again, I am not familiar with the HH tactics, but it looks to me like the ability to shot on a flat-out move is more of a nice to have than a core feature of the tank. I mean, most of its firepower is in its hull guns, especially with a demolisher cannon.

I found a PDF of Imperial Armor Volume 1: Second Edition, it said nothing about the engine being temperamental, nor that it was any more forgotten compared to the rest of the tank. In fact, it's description was almost the same as the HH book of the same year, word for word.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Ironically, two shot multi-meltas are also great for killing eradicators

40k is loyalist Horus Heresy

Sumilidon wrote:
You think they are good now? Wait until the multi-part kits come out. In my experience, the multi-part kits always come with an option that is better than what comes in the standard box - otherwise why would anyone pay a premium for the multi-part set? Never fear however, GW will have made all the newer updates more powerful up until 2 years time when they release a load of new Primaris models and buff the army again.

"Don't fight it. Buy Primaris today." - GW Slogan since 2018

Although, Primaris weren't very good when they first came out. Most of 8th was based around putting as many bodies as possible out onto the board to take advantage of aura and stratagem scale. Paying 60% more than scouts for an extra wound, attack, save and AP point wasn't going to cut it, not when plasma spam was so common. In fact, Inceptors were the only good primaris unit precisely because they could fire more plasma than anything else per point. Maybe that was part of the plan, a soft sell for primaris, or maybe the made a "mistake" in not making them good and tried to overcompensate with super-primaris in the supplements. I mean the 2-year production cycle works out.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Because you invest millions into salaries, production facilities, warehouses, logistics, your own brick&mortar stores to release a new product that is less attractive on purpose. That makes sense. You contradict yourself within two sentences. Do they want to sell the new Necrons or not? Do you think it increases sales numbers to make them weaker on purpose? Without proof at hand for it, I bet my sweet little bum that Marines sell regardless of rules. They are just that popular.

That is not true, look at how fast thunderfire cannons sold out when they entered the marine meta, or GK paladins, or any other top tier unit. Rules sell models, lore sells rules, and models sell lore, the GW Ouroboros. The last two parts are debatable, but a quick look at eBay will show you that models with good rules sell far beyond what they would otherwise sell at. And as far as Necrons go, the one of best ways to make a model good is to make its competition bad. For example, I bet the Silent King will be a top tier unit, especially compared to the rest of the Necron range, because he doesn't have a new SM counterpart to compete with.

except it is true, Marines have ALWAYS been the top selling GW models. with the tactical kit outselling the entire WFB LINE back in the day. do people buy whatever mini is most powerful in an attempt to chase the Meta? yes. this does not mean that Marines are dependant on a top meta placement to sell well. in fact given the marine sale rate, no matter how well they're doing, GW proably has more pressure to make non marine armies more powerful to produce demand for those ranges.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoiler:

Sumilidon wrote:
In GW's defence - they don't care. They made some models, they want those models to sell. Double shooting meltas? Sure, why not? Space Marines stronger than Custodes - sounds a great seller. That ATV bike (depending on points) is going to be awesome. In contrast, the new Necron units are a bit "meh" and for good reason. You don't want your new and fresh cash-cow marine players getting disillusioned by their primary opponent having something better than them.

You think they are good now? Wait until the multi-part kits come out. In my experience, the multi-part kits always come with an option that is better than what comes in the standard box - otherwise why would anyone pay a premium for the multi-part set? Never fear however, GW will have made all the newer updates more powerful up until 2 years time when they release a load of new Primaris models and buff the army again.

"Don't fight it. Buy Primaris today." - GW Slogan since 2018

The ATV is 85.
An old marine Attack Bike w/ MM is 55 points. 25 extra points over an ATV you can get two attack bikes.

Both of these will have the exact same wounds, toughness, attacks, etc.

The ATV has 6 S4 and 2 MM shots.
The Attack Bikes have 8 S4 and 4 MM shots.

So the Attack Bikes are basically an ATV that paid for a second MM. Can you tell me how that makes the ATV wildly better without some special rule?

You're right, the eyesore isn't any better than two attack bikes based purely on its stats, and it's entirely possible it won't get any special rules to push it over the top. Assault intercessors and Blade Guard didn't either (though they don't really need one, as their wargear is almost equal to two of the best Night Lords relics combined, on a model whose stats come close to a chaos lord, for less than half the cost). The only issue I see isn't with the unit itself, but with how it and the rest of the primaris line will function in the new scoring system for the new missions. Those two attack bikes count as two units towards either the Attrition or Thin Their Ranks secondaries, the Primariocart counts as one. Gw gave us secondaries that punish hordes, vehicles, characters, titanic units, and even psykers, but nothing that punishes armies comprised of elite, multi-wound infantry and bikes. That's why loyalists and Custodes look so good right now. We'll probably get a secondary that rewards killing elite units eventually, but until then any unit that can do the work of two similar ones for the same price that is either infantry or a bike will be very good.

Jidmah wrote:Ironically, two shot multi-meltas are also great for killing eradicators

A lot of the new primaris stuff looks like it was designed to fight other primaris. All these good units with multi-damage and D2 weapons. If gw doesn't start giving that kind of stuff out to other factions 40k could start looking like HH.

Or they can double down on making marines OP in order to sell just as much while needing to design fewer models.

 Eipi10 wrote:
Or they can double down on making marines OP in order to sell just as much while needing to design fewer models.

if that was their plan why are necrons getting their entire range redone? people need to chill out, marines are getting a new codex in 2 monthsfor all we know marines could be unplayably bad by christmas. or necrons could get some insane boost to RP that makes them the best faction etc.

Tyel wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The ATV is 85.
An old marine Attack Bike w/ MM is 55 points. 25 extra points over an ATV you can get two attack bikes.

Both of these will have the exact same wounds, toughness, attacks, etc.

The ATV has 6 S4 and 2 MM shots.
The Attack Bikes have 8 S4 and 4 MM shots.

So the Attack Bikes are basically an ATV that paid for a second MM. Can you tell me how that makes the ATV wildly better without some special rule?

Really depends on whether 2 shot multimeltas for everyone is confirmed.
If it isn't, the issue is that you are getting approximately 2 attack bikes worth 110 points for 85.

Continue to doubt MMs will get this buff, because if all multimeltas are 2 shots AP-4, damage of D6+2 if in half range or whatever then they just laugh at lascannons and las-equivalent weapons in other factions. Which maybe could perhaps be fixed with points etc - but it seems like a massive gap.

They cant not do it. It has the same name. Other factions however...

As for lascannons - it's all about the range. LC certainly become less interesting with these missions though.

I'd expect multi-meltas to be updated through a FAQ just like demolisher cannons were. It probably won't happen until the Eyesore is released however. And lascannons will be fine. They're all about pounding things at a distance. Melta needs to be up close and personal.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'd expect multiple to be updated through a FAQ just like demolisher cannons were. It probably won't happen until the Eyesore is released however. And lascannons will be fine. They're all about pounding things at a distance. Melta needs to be up close and personal.

yup, which is how GW likely sees things, we're supposed to take las for ranged anti-tank and melta for close up anti-tank

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
And lascannons will be fine. They're all about pounding things at a distance. Melta needs to be up close and personal.

Do you prefer the pounding from a distance, or up close & personal?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
And lascannons will be fine. They're all about pounding things at a distance. Melta needs to be up close and personal.

Do you prefer the pounding from a distance, or up close & personal?

Distance. Basilisks and Vindicators. Iron Within, Iron Without.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

They cant not do it. It has the same name. Other factions however...

As for lascannons - it's all about the range. LC certainly become less interesting with these missions though.

Storm Shield FAQ says hello. I think they could do it fairly easily. "The ATV is special and gets to shoot twice, this line is included in its datasheet because its special. Use the regular profile in all other datasheets for everyone else."

12" extra range is certainly worth *something* - but it is almost never making up for 2 shots. Especially in a game which is less about camping miles at the back.

If MM had a real short range - say 12" - such that you could potentially go turns without shooting - then okay.
But 24" when you can (largely) move and fire without penalty - whether its 5-6", never mind 14" - is fine.

Then its just numbers.
Vs Predator = same to hit, same to wound, no save versus 5/6 for a Las. So 2/(5/6)=over twice as good before we consider any upside in half range.
Vs Leman Russ = same to hit, Las=2/3 to wound, 5/6 to not be saved=10/18. MM=1/2 to wound, no save. So 1/(10/18) - just a bit less than twice as good, before we consider upside of being in half range.
Vs Knight (T8, 5++) - Las=2/3 to wound, 2/3rd to not be saved=4/9. MM=2*1/2*2/3=2/3. So 50% better before upside.

An average of 5.5 damage versus 3.5 damage is a further 57% damage upside if within 12" - which more than compensates you lacking a 36" range.
For the example, it means an MM in half range would do 3.76 times as much damage as a lascannon to a predator. It would do 2.35 times versus a Knight.

There are questions of how many points should go into a gun rather than in the context of a full unit. If you make a unit which does twice as much damage twice as expensive, you skew towards glass cannon, as you don't get any points for toughness/wounds. On the other hand, if you don't, the extra damage makes it a no-brainer.

In other words, MMs would be a steal if they were just 5 points more than a lascannon. They'd need to be something like at least 15 more - and really, even then, it would be a no-brainer on a platform like the ATV - because you'd be paying 18% more points (95 versus 80) for 50-100%+ more damage on the main gun.

Maybe you say the ATV should cost 33% more - so 80*1.33=106, lets call it 105. So your MM would have to be "Las+25" which is about 40/45 points. Which is still a bargain as per the numbers above. But it then raises the question of whether say Retributors, or MM Devs should cost 52-55 points a model. How glass should you go?

(I realise because people are pedantic the cry will go up that the ATV can't take a lascannon - but just consider any other platform. Compare the ATV with this gun to other comparable units which have a lascannon or lascannon equivalent gun for instance.)

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'd expect multiple to be updated through a FAQ just like demolisher cannons were. It probably won't happen until the Eyesore is released however. And lascannons will be fine. They're all about pounding things at a distance. Melta needs to be up close and personal.

yup, which is how GW likely sees things, we're supposed to take las for ranged anti-tank and melta for close up anti-tank

Well that is all well and good, but when they make the tables smaller , the extra range lascannons have isn't that much of an up side. It is even less an up side when all games are about swarming the objectives ASAP and being supported by very fast moving stuff.

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'd expect multiple to be updated through a FAQ just like demolisher cannons were. It probably won't happen until the Eyesore is released however. And lascannons will be fine. They're all about pounding things at a distance. Melta needs to be up close and personal.

yup, which is how GW likely sees things, we're supposed to take las for ranged anti-tank and melta for close up anti-tank

Well that is all well and good, but when they make the tables smaller , the extra range lascannons have isn't that much of an up side. It is even less an up side when all games are about swarming the objectives ASAP and being supported by very fast moving stuff.

this wou;dn't be the first time GW has over valued range to an unrealistic level IIRC

BrianDavion wrote:

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'd expect multiple to be updated through a FAQ just like demolisher cannons were. It probably won't happen until the Eyesore is released however. And lascannons will be fine. They're all about pounding things at a distance. Melta needs to be up close and personal.

yup, which is how GW likely sees things, we're supposed to take las for ranged anti-tank and melta for close up anti-tank

Well that is all well and good, but when they make the tables smaller , the extra range lascannons have isn't that much of an up side. It is even less an up side when all games are about swarming the objectives ASAP and being supported by very fast moving stuff.

this wou;dn't be the first time GW has over valued range to an unrealistic level IIRC

Basilisk and the ICBM ?


GW really has an issue sometimes whith what is value and what isn't because seemingly gw doesn't really like beeing in touch with the ontable reality. (TBF though if you play 48" to 72" as a board for some trench warfare then yes range becomes invaluable.)

Tyel wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

They cant not do it. It has the same name. Other factions however...

As for lascannons - it's all about the range. LC certainly become less interesting with these missions though.

Storm Shield FAQ says hello. I think they could do it fairly easily. "The ATV is special and gets to shoot twice, this line is included in its datasheet because its special. Use the regular profile in all other datasheets for everyone else."

12" extra range is certainly worth *something* - but it is almost never making up for 2 shots. Especially in a game which is less about camping miles at the back.

If MM had a real short range - say 12" - such that you could potentially go turns without shooting - then okay.
But 24" when you can (largely) move and fire without penalty - whether its 5-6", never mind 14" - is fine.

That FAQ changed what was in that book to fix a wording issues. Nothing else.

MM is great. If you're facing a contemptor with TLC then not even a full bike move gets you in range. That said we're on smaller tables, but that contemptor is no slouch with movement either and provided proper terrain will always get the first shot while the ATV as to expose itself. I fully expect way more MM though since it fits the aggressive mission style.

BrianDavion wrote:
except it is true, Marines have ALWAYS been the top selling GW models. with the tactical kit outselling the entire WFB LINE back in the day. do people buy whatever mini is most powerful in an attempt to chase the Meta? yes. this does not mean that Marines are dependant on a top meta placement to sell well. in fact given the marine sale rate, no matter how well they're doing, GW proably has more pressure to make non marine armies more powerful to produce demand for those ranges.

Yet for how many editions has the starter box for the edition contained 1 unit of tactical marines. Answer as long as I can remember for 8 editions(if you count intercessors as the equivalent). GW also counted every Horus Heresy kit MK3 and Mk4 kits as marine sales too, despite them being for a different gaming system.

Also how often have you seen a GW store employee shove a Spacemarine box into kids hands and say these are spacemarines these are the super soliders you want to be.
(Might be a tad more synical as I had to go to a GW store recently to collect a model and got the 20 miniut hard sell Primaris are amazing yad yad, wound not stop even after being told I played 2 non marine armies, took listing my FW models to get them to shut up about bloody Primaris and give me what I was their for.

When your selling practices are that blatantly biasid it's no wonder everyone has some marines.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

They cant not do it. It has the same name. Other factions however...

As for lascannons - it's all about the range. LC certainly become less interesting with these missions though.

Storm Shield FAQ says hello. I think they could do it fairly easily. "The ATV is special and gets to shoot twice, this line is included in its datasheet because its special. Use the regular profile in all other datasheets for everyone else."

12" extra range is certainly worth *something* - but it is almost never making up for 2 shots. Especially in a game which is less about camping miles at the back.

If MM had a real short range - say 12" - such that you could potentially go turns without shooting - then okay.
But 24" when you can (largely) move and fire without penalty - whether its 5-6", never mind 14" - is fine.

That FAQ changed what was in that book to fix a wording issues. Nothing else.

MM is great. If you're facing a contemptor with TLC then not even a full bike move gets you in range. That said we're on smaller tables, but that contemptor is no slouch with movement either and provided proper terrain will always get the first shot while the ATV as to expose itself. I fully expect way more MM though since it fits the aggressive mission style.

Why not just reserv the the 3 attack bikes? You don't need to blow it up turn one.Specialy if you are going second.

Although I don't claim to have much knowladge about the use of fast moving anti tank like attack bikes, so I could be very wrong.

Karol wrote:

Why not just reserv the the 3 attack bikes? You don't need to blow it up turn one.Specialy if you are going second.

Although I don't claim to have much knowladge about the use of fast moving anti tank like attack bikes, so I could be very wrong.

So far reserves has been difficult to use. The way the table goes only their deployment and mine has spots open. It makes deepstriking into their end easier, but reserves can't be there until turn 3.

BrianDavion wrote:
if that was their plan why are necrons getting their entire range redone? people need to chill out, marines are getting a new codex in 2 monthsfor all we know marines could be unplayably bad by christmas. or necrons could get some insane boost to RP that makes them the best faction etc.

Half of the necron range will be the exact same after this "range redone" and you and I both know neither of those other two things will happen. Stop passing off impossibilities as likely outcomes. These are the kind of lies GW execs tell themselves when they lie awake at night, which they shamelessly reuse as fraudulent marketing tactics the next day.

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Ice_can wrote:
When your selling practices are that blatantly biasid it's no wonder everyone has some marines.

You think GW would factor that into their market modeling equations. Oh well, I except squats to be released in Adeptus Titanicus before GW learns good business strategies.

I'm sure GW sleep just fine with their soaring stocks and profits...

until 3d printing becomes even more accessible, then all they have left is rules.

Not Online!!! wrote:
until 3d printing becomes even more accessible, then all they have left is rules.

And the actual IP. And economies of scale. And actual convenience.

The vast majority of people won't own a printer. So they'll have to hire one out. To do a properly detailed miniature its something like 8+ hours and 10x the cost. So, even if cost comes down the speed won't change much just by the nature of printing. So until someone rents out injection molders and someone else designs the sprue for free...it will be a really long time and some significant advancement to make it worthwhile.

And the guy making STL files here? They second he'd try to sell such a file he'd be sued so you'll rely entirely on the free labor of others.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
until 3d printing becomes even more accessible, then all they have left is rules.

And the actual IP. And economies of scale. And actual convenience.

The vast majority of people won't own a printer. So they'll have to hire one out. To do a properly detailed miniature its something like 8+ hours and 10x the cost. So, even if cost comes down the speed won't change much just by the nature of printing. So until someone rents out injection molders and someone else designs the sprue for free...it will be a really long time and some significant advancement to make it worthwhile.

And the guy making STL files here? They second he'd try to sell such a file he'd be sued so you'll rely entirely on the free labor of others.

That 'the vast majority of people won't own a printer' is the real big assumption, isn't it? You could make a pretty similar argument in the 90s for why music piracy would never be a problem- 'most people will never own a computer, so they'd have to pay people to burn them CDs, and anyone who advertises it for sale would be sued instantly'. And even with the reality that most people do own computers now, the vast majority of them have no idea how to pirate music, yet it still had a transformative effect on the music industry. Digital services selling individual music tracks for $0.99 apiece are a direct result of the impact piracy had on the industry- it heavily pushed the record labels towards lower prices and greater consumer-friendliness, to try to make the effort of piracy less attractive as an alternative.

If 3D printers become ubiquitous technology for wargamers, then GW may have to rethink their business model. The end result might not ever be that GW abandons plastic and everyone just licenses files and prints at home, but the market pressure imposed by an illegitimate alternative could push against the current luxury good pricing model, especially for lines like Forge World.

But in any case, the fact that GW is seeing record profits at the moment does not guarantee that the current strategy is optimal. Short-term profits at the cost of long-term gains, if pumping up Marines comes at the cost of retention of non-Marine players, is a legitimate concern.

3D printing would have to be in vogue for more than just wargaming to be cheap like ink printers are now. But given the required technical ability it will remain a niche industry. Sure, wargamers will tend to own them more frequently than the general population, but the effort it'd take to print a squad will still be much more than the instant gratification of driving to the store and having something ready to go.

If 3D printers became so good and easy to use I could see GW selling them and licensing out model files, but that's a really good long time from now.

I think people think Primaris are an extension of marines when they should really be thought of as their own army -- and that army is unfinished unlike most others. We're probably looking at Sons of Behemat for AoS after we clear the Indomitus bottleneck. Then it's probably almost time for the holidays.

....god what a year. It has gone by far too quickly.