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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/12/look-out-sir-for-an-faq-update/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40kLookOutFAQ12Aug20&utm_content=40kLookOutFAQ12Aug20&fbclid=IwAR0B8PRj3uirqN-ugLcUvThwl8_wKXkS3qz7Vbo-CAiBkVTHtw1nqxmsB44

Frustrating that they're having such a hard time with what should be such a simple rule, but at least they fixed it. IMO this IS better than the way they had it.

You'd think they'd notice that their last change screwed over factions like drukhari and Harlequins before having to be told.

Most playtested edition, BTW.


That change works and fixes basically everything but god, its hard to take them seriously when they pull moves like that

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Most playtested edition, BTW.


That change works and fixes basically everything but god, its hard to take them seriously when they pull moves like that

So,I assume you are blaming the playtesters for not spotting this then?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Most playtested edition, BTW.


That change works and fixes basically everything but god, its hard to take them seriously when they pull moves like that

*shrug* As long as they take feedback and don't sit on it forever. 7th edition had glaring issues over years that never got touched. I'll take chaos over inaction.

It must feel really silly right now to be the people arguing that GW made this change because they deliberately wanted to stop 9 wound buggies from blocking LOS.

Chock up another one for "when GW does something that doesn't make any sense, 9/10 it just doesn't make sense."

At least they fixed it, but man, is it really so hard to think through what you're doing before you do it? It didn't take a genius to see the issue with what they did. When you make a change and within 30 seconds of seeing it most people are saying "uh, did you think about this at all?" it's probably a good sign you should have, well, thought about it.

 BroodSpawn wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Most playtested edition, BTW.


That change works and fixes basically everything but god, its hard to take them seriously when they pull moves like that

So,I assume you are blaming the playtesters for not spotting this then?

Nah, the blame is on GW, i'm just making a joke about 9th' "motto". I'm glad we didnt need to wait long to get it fixed, its just a shame that GW didn't get it right the first time.


(as an aside, didn't playtesters tell GW multiple things were broken yet GW just went with it? or was that a rumor only?)

Glad this doesn't completely murder my Ork mech list. The loss of the Warboss on Warbike is still a big gut-punch, but at least now we're not relegated to just taking foot-guys in our army.

Playtesters claim they told GW multiple things were broken.

Or at least the competitive-linked ones are the ones I've seen saying that...but given that those same playtesters can't always spot illegal lists, I'm not holding my breath.

Great job that GW reacted so quickly to community feedback

The last change wasn't playtested at all, so I dunno why people are talking about playtesting. GW was embarrassed by everyone laughing at them with the Daemon Prince Super Friends memes and decided they had to fix it, but whoever was tasked with doing it evidently had so little understanding of the game that they didn't realize what their change was going to do.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The last change wasn't playtested at all, so I dunno why people are talking about playtesting.

Well, characters screening for each other is something that should have come up during playtesting in the first place.

Not extensively playtesting the hotfix is understandable, it's more about why it's a problem to begin with.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The last change wasn't playtested at all, so I dunno why people are talking about playtesting. GW was embarrassed by everyone laughing at them with the Daemon Prince Super Friends memes and decided they had to fix it, but whoever was tasked with doing it evidently had so little understanding of the game that they didn't realize what their change was going to do.

I made a similar point in another thread, but... How do these people get to keep their jobs? There are hundreds of unpaid fans that have a much better understanding of the game their designers even do. If your job is to design rules for 40k, how could you mess this up? I'm surprised there isn't a line outside GW's door filled with people who would be happy to take over, even though I'd bet it doesn't pay too well.

It feels weird to compare to my own profession, but GW's employees are making a living designing a game. If I put out a project, then 2 days later said "Oh no, I didn't think about X. Let's change it again!", it would be a problem.

It's almost as if characters should be able to join units like they used to instead of making nonsensical rules.

 catbarf wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The last change wasn't playtested at all, so I dunno why people are talking about playtesting.

Well, characters screening for each other is something that should have come up during playtesting in the first place.

Not extensively playtesting the hotfix is understandable, it's more about why it's a problem to begin with.

I would be seriously shocked if it didn't, and GW didn't just ignore it. We know they have form for it in the past (Hi Iron Hands supplement!), and we know they ignored the feedback on how bad their points values for 9th edition were. So I dunno why it would surprise anyone that they ignored the playtesters on this too.

More importantly, foisting responsibility for game balance onto unpaid volunteers is deeply irresponsible. It's GW's job to create a balanced game, not unpaid volunteer playtesters.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It's almost as if characters should be able to join units like they used to instead of making nonsensical rules.

Aww, pretending that that system wasn't a MUCH MUCH worse tangle of different rulings and abuses.

They could FAQ LoS twice a day, every day, and it still wouldn't be worse than that gak was.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It's almost as if characters should be able to join units like they used to instead of making nonsensical rules.

Well said.

Aww, pretending that that system wasn't a MUCH MUCH worse tangle of different rulings and abuses.

They could FAQ LoS twice a day, every day, and it still wouldn't be worse than that gak was.

Nope. If you are complaining about death stars, look no further than 8th edition bubbles. Instead of 1 unit getting buffs we have almost entire armies of re-rolls now.

How is a character joining a unit a bad thing in any way? All they have to do is make their special rules only work on specific keywords. Special rules abuse is so much worse now than it used to be.

It's ok. I'm sure if GW came around and allowed characters to join units again in a future edition of the game you'd be extolling the virtues of such a smart rules set they've created.

ERJAK wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It's almost as if characters should be able to join units like they used to instead of making nonsensical rules.

Aww, pretending that that system wasn't a MUCH MUCH worse tangle of different rulings and abuses.

They could FAQ LoS twice a day, every day, and it still wouldn't be worse than that gak was.

You know "characters join units" doesn't have to mean "roll back to 7e wound allocation", right?

I am just happy we are getting quick updates and fixes to clearly broken combos.

It really was not long ago that we got NO updates/FAQs, and went entire editions without certain armies getting codexes (codici?). You young people dont know how good you got it

 catbarf wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The last change wasn't playtested at all, so I dunno why people are talking about playtesting.

Well, characters screening for each other is something that should have come up during playtesting in the first place.

Not extensively playtesting the hotfix is understandable, it's more about why it's a problem to begin with.

Of the dozen or so games player so far it's really hard to keep characters together and still cover objectives. I can't envision many people willfully running multiple DPs and having that precise scenario come up. It also takes 3+ hours to play a game. It isn't like MtG where you could have a group play 10,000 games in a couple months or w/e.

Frankly the look out sir mess shows that the 40k design team are lacking in some straightforward engineering/science/technical know how. From a creative POV they know what they wanted, and it’s a fairly simple state machine type set of scenarios and events that they needed to close off, but they simply didn’t do it correctly despite several public attempts and who knows how many private attempts. Hence the holes.

Good rules design is about more than creative writing. Technical writing is important too. The trick is to encompass the second without making it read like a textbook.

Its almost like they forgot DE and harleys were armies..

 Argive wrote:
Its almost like they forgot DE and harleys were armies..

Of course, the fear is they won't be, and a Ynnari army will kick them into legends.

They certainly gave eldar an unwarranted stomping in the points book.

In fairness to GW, an issue arose and they addressed it quickly. Is it silly that the original wording made it through as is? Yeah, but they're addressing it quickly, and it's not like most of us are getting any play time to have been affected by it either way as is given the current state of world affairs.

Voss wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Its almost like they forgot DE and harleys were armies..

Of course, the fear is they won't be, and a Ynnari army will kick them into legends.

They certainly gave eldar an unwarranted stomping in the points book.

Those rangers were clearly too OP.

Just gonna quote myself quickly:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Hiding characters just got a whole lot tougher.

It's almost as if making sweeping changes to fix specific problems results in a lot of unforeseen consequences...

What a shock that they changed it.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Playtesters claim they told GW multiple things were broken.

Trust you to call the play-testers liars in order to protect poor defenceless GW.

yukishiro1 wrote:
... but whoever was tasked with doing it evidently had so little understanding of the game that they didn't realize what their change was going to do.

That would be most of the people writing their rules, I believe.

Credit where it is due, good on GW for fixing this. There remains plenty to criticize but I'll save it for another day and take some joy now that we got a fix when they could have done nothing.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Credit where it is due, good on GW for fixing this.

Credit for being agile, yes, but it was a problem of their own creation.

This is like praising someone for quickly applying a bandage after they shot themselves in the foot.