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Voss wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Some Chapter Tactics are being toned down or adjusted to match 9th Edition

We know this? Where has this been released? I hadn't seen anything about traits being nerfed.

Most weren't. But the chapter tactics page is visible on the announcement article, and people played a 'zoom and enhance' trick until it was legible. They're pretty much all known (including deathwatch and the snowflake wolf angels). Alpha Ravens got adjusted to better live with 9th edition rules. It isn't awful, but if you're fighting an army that wants to get close, you might as well not have a chapter tactic.

Niiru, you can see here as pulled from the video.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hxmozp/new_sm_codex_coming_in_october_2020_with_updated/

Niiru wrote:

CapRichard wrote:
I remember when it was suggested like a bazillion times here to give two wounds to all marines... And now it's done.

So happy to have everyone have the opposite opinion than before.

Hardly anyone has the opposite opinion. Marines having 2 wounds is fine.

Marines having the most overbuffed codex in existence in 8th, and then being the only codex released in 9th, which ALSO contains a large number of significant further buffs, while every other army has to wait at least a year (some more like 3 years) before they even find out if they will be playable in 9th or not - this is what people are objecting to.

Space marine codex should have been done last. Its already more than fine now. Or all armies get a buff via chapter approved or something so the balance is instant and not dragged out.

is it really to much to ask people to get their facts right before they complain, codex necrons is coming out and roughly the same time.

Oh, thanks Brian. So that means Codex Necrons is bringing all non marine factions up to the same "power level" as their power armor brethren or do I get to ask you to pound sand

BrianDavion wrote:


is it really to much to ask people to get their facts right before they complain, codex necrons is coming out and roughly the same time.

Ahh, pedantry. The last resort of the desperate debater.

Fine. replace -only- with -first-. Everything else still stands. They shouldn't have been released until everyone else was brought up to their level. Adding more buffs just breaks the game more than it is in their favour.

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

CapRichard wrote:
I remember when it was suggested like a bazillion times here to give two wounds to all marines... And now it's done.

So happy to have everyone have the opposite opinion than before.

Hardly anyone has the opposite opinion. Marines having 2 wounds is fine.

Marines having the most overbuffed codex in existence in 8th, and then being the only codex released in 9th, which ALSO contains a large number of significant further buffs, while every other army has to wait at least a year (some more like 3 years) before they even find out if they will be playable in 9th or not - this is what people are objecting to.

Space marine codex should have been done last. Its already more than fine now. Or all armies get a buff via chapter approved or something so the balance is instant and not dragged out.

is it really to much to ask people to get their facts right before they complain, codex necrons is coming out and roughly the same time.

yes. yes, it is. in my experience.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
My bad, I meant to say flail of corruption, not mace of contagion, not sure why I always mix those 2 up. Also, check your codex under plague marines : vectors of death and disease : if they are armed with a plague knife and bubotic axe, increase attacks characteristic to 2 instead of 1. So 10 man in a Rhino all equipped with plague knife and bubotic axe will get 30 str 5 ap - 2 attacks on the charge, add flail of corruption if you want a little more punch. At 5 more points a model I think its worth it to make them pretty killy in CC. Flail's are optional at a slightly higher cost. They will charge and kill, then they will be harder to get rid of compared to other infantry, especially if you buff them with psychic if you so desire. I am never concerned with what other people run in their lists, ive been playing 40k since 2001, I can tell if something works and what doesn't at this point. Charging a melee squad out of a Rhino is not hard to do.

If you think that's awesome, wait till you see possessed

My brother was thinking about taking a squad of 20 and footslogging them with buffs from Fabius Bile and a sorcerer


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Me personally I am extremely happy with what GW is doing, we live in exciting times and the game is getting updated like never before, old units will feel fresh again, and everyone will be happy when the new codex comes out for whichever faction you play. In the mean time, enjoy those 8th edition psychic awakening games, because every army with a decent list and general behind them kick ass even in 9th.

If offensive output aka bolter discipline get's curbed especially in light of the increased bolter range , after some thought in it, i'd actually be Kind of , fine i guess , with it.

Niiru wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


is it really to much to ask people to get their facts right before they complain, codex necrons is coming out and roughly the same time.

Ahh, pedantry. The last resort of the desperate debater.

Fine. replace -only- with -first-. Everything else still stands. They shouldn't have been released until everyone else was brought up to their level. Adding more buffs just breaks the game more than it is in their favour.

it's not pedantry. you made an inaccurate statement and I called you on it. we don't even know if Marines will be the first given necrons and marines are both noted to be "in october" In fact you could make a strong case for necrons being first (and Marines being a late october november stretched release due to the supplements)

Not Online!!! wrote:
If offensive output aka bolter discipline get's curbed especially in light of the increased bolter range , after some thought in it, i'd actually be Kind of , fine i guess , with it.

I can't see this happening.

Between the slightly smaller army size and the fact that necrons are getting 'protocols' (they're mentioned in their expanded dynasty codes), doctrines won't be going unless something else replaces them.
They'll probably stick with the fixed progression of doctrines that the FAQ brought, but only because people were 'playing it wrong.'

From a CSM player perspective, I would say this is needed because I honestly don't think CSM is that good right now. Short of bringing absolutely skewed lists like I dunno, 9 obliterators lists with a whole army built around that. A balanced CSM list is honestly not in a very good place right now.

But even bringing up the wounds for a CSM army probably just puts us on a more even tier against other armies. It doesn't make us top tier (unless you count in deathguard which are now a seperate army on its own). Because with doctrines and stuff, loyalists space marines have always been stronger than CSM.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
From a CSM player perspective, I would say this is needed because I honestly don't think CSM is that good right now. Short of bringing absolutely skewed lists like I dunno, 9 obliterators lists with a whole army built around that. A balanced CSM list is honestly not in a very good place right now.

But even bringing up the wounds for a CSM army probably just puts us on a more even tier against other armies. It doesn't make us top tier (unless you count in deathguard which are now a seperate army on its own). Because with doctrines and stuff, loyalists space marines have always been stronger than CSM.

Chaos are very strong right now, what kind of list are you bringing? What relics are you bringing? What stratagems are you using? It is up to the player to maximize what the codex and especially Psychic Awakening have to offer. What is this " top tier " that you speak of? There are good players in 40K, and there are bad players. Which one are you? A good player can easily win games with Chaos against Space Marines. Its up to you to max out what Chaos and PA have to offer before your 9th codex hits.

 Crusaderobr wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
From a CSM player perspective, I would say this is needed because I honestly don't think CSM is that good right now. Short of bringing absolutely skewed lists like I dunno, 9 obliterators lists with a whole army built around that. A balanced CSM list is honestly not in a very good place right now.

But even bringing up the wounds for a CSM army probably just puts us on a more even tier against other armies. It doesn't make us top tier (unless you count in deathguard which are now a seperate army on its own). Because with doctrines and stuff, loyalists space marines have always been stronger than CSM.

Chaos are very strong right now, what kind of list are you bringing? What relics are you bringing? What stratagems are you using? It is up to the player to maximize what the codex and especially Psychic Awakening have to offer. What is this " top tier " that you speak of? There are good players in 40K, and there are bad players. Which one are you? A good player can easily win games with Chaos against Space Marines. Its up to you to max out what Chaos and PA have to offer before your 9th codex hits.

chaos lists are strong more due to essentially explotive shinnagens then actually being good. most chaos players would happily surrender that bs to just be better over all.

Chaos' advantage for a long time has been variety, it's the superfaction you can mix and match most without any disincentives from an incredibly wide range of stratagems and models. That got a bit of a hit in 9th because mixing and matching now costs you, but the faction is still alright.

Basic CSM are usually terrible, though, and putting them at 2W is not likely to change that.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Chaos' advantage for a long time has been variety, it's the superfaction you can mix and match most without any disincentives from an incredibly wide range of stratagems and models. That got a bit of a hit in 9th because mixing and matching now costs you, but the faction is still alright.

Basic CSM are usually terrible, though, and putting them at 2W is not likely to change that.

They've been pretty good in 8th. I play them a lot, and have had more fun than I ever did with them in 7th. Terminators are great (now way better staying at 23 ppm and gaining a third wound) with a great variety of weapons and playstyles. Obliterators, were obviously very good to begin with, but become amazeballs when they're paired with either an Apostle or a Sorcerer. Havoks were hella fun this edition, and I'm hopeful they'll get that second wound along with T5 as they deserve. Hellbrutes were a very underrated unit in 8th as well, I loved loading mine up with Plas and double shooting for 1CP. Even the rank and file CSM were fine, nothing to write home about, but they worked well in my lists (usually bring 3 Squads of 6 (1PlasGun, 1PlasPistol + Chainsword [SGt]) and had a blast with them.

Chosen were great too, I would either go all power swords and bolt pistols, or all meltaguns in a Rhino for some run and gun fun. Or for some charge and chop fun. I really loved how the Monster vehicles worked this edition, but I don't own any so I didn't feth with them too much.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Me personally I am extremely happy with what GW is doing, we live in exciting times and the game is getting updated like never before, old units will feel fresh again, and everyone will be happy when the new codex comes out for whichever faction you play. In the mean time, enjoy those 8th edition psychic awakening games, because every army with a decent list and general behind them kick ass even in 9th.

I think we can both agree on that. ;D

I'll just hope the people who came up with kustom jobs will do the ork codex, and not whoever was in charge of doing the 9th edition FAQs. The difference in quality between those is insane.

BrianDavion wrote:


it's not pedantry. you made an inaccurate statement and I called you on it. we don't even know if Marines will be the first given necrons and marines are both noted to be "in october" In fact you could make a strong case for necrons being first (and Marines being a late october november stretched release due to the supplements)

Serious question for you, think long and hard about it: who cares?

What consolation would all the other xenos players who still have to wait before getting a codex to put them on par with Marines get if Necrons do come first? Does that detract from their point?

I'm actually glad that Marines are going up to two wounds universally because I want them to play and feel like an elite army. But I am in no way blind to the fact that Marines are the strongest army and have been since their 2.0 update, and your nitpicking just looks like a poor attempt to put a smokescreen around that fact.

Do you really find it so difficult to believe that people playing factions that are not nearly as well-supported as yours might be resentful towards Marines?

 Jidmah wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Me personally I am extremely happy with what GW is doing, we live in exciting times and the game is getting updated like never before, old units will feel fresh again, and everyone will be happy when the new codex comes out for whichever faction you play. In the mean time, enjoy those 8th edition psychic awakening games, because every army with a decent list and general behind them kick ass even in 9th.

I think we can both agree on that. ;D

I'll just hope the people who came up with kustom jobs will do the ork codex, and not whoever was in charge of doing the 9th edition FAQs. The difference in quality between those is insane.

I've said many a time that when it comes time to get a codex the most important thing possiable is that the writer is passionate about the lore of the army.

The most important thing that the necron codex will show us is wether a xenos army can compete with marines,

The level that necron units are boosted should give us a good idea about how other armies will be boosted

I'm ambivilent on most marines getting more wounds.

But I hate death guard getting another wound. It's bad for the game. Death guard were already a sleeper hit. They're pretty much number 1 now.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Me personally I am extremely happy with what GW is doing, we live in exciting times and the game is getting updated like never before, old units will feel fresh again, and everyone will be happy when the new codex comes out for whichever faction you play. In the mean time, enjoy those 8th edition psychic awakening games, because every army with a decent list and general behind them kick ass even in 9th.

I think we can both agree on that. ;D

I'll just hope the people who came up with kustom jobs will do the ork codex, and not whoever was in charge of doing the 9th edition FAQs. The difference in quality between those is insane.

I've said many a time that when it comes time to get a codex the most important thing possiable is that the writer is passionate about the lore of the army.

To bad that rumor has it that one of the developers actively hate orks and drukhari...
The last thing we need is something like Matt Ward's 7th edition ork codex, written by a person that hated orks, didn't want to write the book and still had to do it.

 Jidmah wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Me personally I am extremely happy with what GW is doing, we live in exciting times and the game is getting updated like never before, old units will feel fresh again, and everyone will be happy when the new codex comes out for whichever faction you play. In the mean time, enjoy those 8th edition psychic awakening games, because every army with a decent list and general behind them kick ass even in 9th.

I think we can both agree on that. ;D

I'll just hope the people who came up with kustom jobs will do the ork codex, and not whoever was in charge of doing the 9th edition FAQs. The difference in quality between those is insane.

I've said many a time that when it comes time to get a codex the most important thing possiable is that the writer is passionate about the lore of the army.

To bad that rumor has it that one of the developers actively hate orks and drukhari...
The last thing we need is something like Matt Ward's 7th edition ork codex, written by a person that hated orks, didn't want to write the book and still had to do it.

Oh there's always some rumor about somebody hating this faction or being a huge fanboy for this other faction or blah blah blah. Who knows how many people actually get their hands on these books now. I seriously doubt one guy not liking Orkz is likely to have much affect on the book as a whole.

 Jidmah wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Me personally I am extremely happy with what GW is doing, we live in exciting times and the game is getting updated like never before, old units will feel fresh again, and everyone will be happy when the new codex comes out for whichever faction you play. In the mean time, enjoy those 8th edition psychic awakening games, because every army with a decent list and general behind them kick ass even in 9th.

I think we can both agree on that. ;D

I'll just hope the people who came up with kustom jobs will do the ork codex, and not whoever was in charge of doing the 9th edition FAQs. The difference in quality between those is insane.

I've said many a time that when it comes time to get a codex the most important thing possiable is that the writer is passionate about the lore of the army.

To bad that rumor has it that one of the developers actively hate orks and drukhari...
The last thing we need is something like Matt Ward's 7th edition ork codex, written by a person that hated orks, didn't want to write the book and still had to do it.

I'm like 99% sure it wasn't Marr Ward that touched Orks.

stratigo wrote:
I'm ambivilent on most marines getting more wounds.

But I hate death guard getting another wound. It's bad for the game. Death guard were already a sleeper hit. They're pretty much number 1 now.

If Marines get a Wound -Death Guard absolutely have to have another one!

yukishiro1 wrote:
Flails interact with DTTFE in crazy ways, making them extremely strong against Imperium. The rest of PM melee isn't terrible but it isn't great either. The main danger is their ability to delete basically anything in the game at up to 12" range with the mortal wound grenade trick if they have the CP and the character nearby.

This was FAQd to not happen.

As a Marine player I'm annoyed, but for probably kind of an odd reason.

My lament for most of 8th was that I'd bought any Firstborn at all. The writing was on the wall, they're on borrowed time, they look funny next to the better proportioned Primaris, I increasingly wasn't finding a place for them in my lists, etc, etc.

If I'd read the writing on the wall right from the get-go and not bought any Firstborn I'd now be looking at those tiny old Marine models and contemplating buying a couple of boxes of Devastators, a few packs of the old-style jump packs and special weapons, and the appropriate Intercessors/Assault Intercessors/Bladeguard to use as base models for Tactical, Devastator, Assault, and Veteran squads the wouldn't look funny next to Primaris now that they're also two wounds.

That's an awful impulse to have because it sounds like a fun project that I kind of want to do anyway but it's a lot of money and I really don't like replacing models that I already own and have painted.

And on top of all that it hints at loyalist Firstborn getting new kits to match the CSM refresh (and the salt over new Marine kits coming out when so many Xenos kits are ancient is deep enough already) or the Firstborn and Primaris lines just getting rolled together at some point in the future (and that makes the argument that the Primaris should have just been a line update in the first place even more compelling because if they do it now it's the worst possible way GW could have gone about doing it from a customer's perspective). There isn't a win there.

stratigo wrote:
I'm ambivilent on most marines getting more wounds.

But I hate death guard getting another wound. It's bad for the game. Death guard were already a sleeper hit. They're pretty much number 1 now.

Points matter


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:


Oh there's always some rumor about somebody hating this faction or being a huge fanboy for this other faction or blah blah blah. Who knows how many people actually get their hands on these books now. I seriously doubt one guy not liking Orkz is likely to have much affect on the book as a whole.

I enjoy the universe where GW maliciously tweaks rules for sales, but also allows one person to singleandedly sink a whole army.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Flails interact with DTTFE in crazy ways, making them extremely strong against Imperium. The rest of PM melee isn't terrible but it isn't great either. The main danger is their ability to delete basically anything in the game at up to 12" range with the mortal wound grenade trick if they have the CP and the character nearby.

This was FAQd to not happen.

Where? If you mean the recent FAQ re: additional hits, that covers rules that generate additional hits on a specific hit roll, which doesn't apply to this situation.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I enjoy the universe where GW maliciously tweaks rules for sales, but also allows one person to singleandedly sink a whole army.

I think GW do books by committee now, with some playtesters they may or may not ignore, so its less of an issue.

But there were undoubtedly books historically that suggested they just didn't like the faction. Usually they'd consist of unit entry after unity entry which was just "this is a guy with a gun. This is a guy with a sword. This is another guy with a slightly different gun. They all does what it says on the tin."

Then you'd get another faction (Eldar say hi) where the codex seems a letter of love. Almost every unit would have some/half a page of special rules "to represent the fluff", with the result that a small selection of units were usually sufficiently busted they could carry the faction for an edition.

I can understand GW not wanting to steal all their thunder - and they probably dislike having to reveal the Marines (and some Necron) changes this early. But it would probably be better - imo anyway - to reveal what they are going to do for everyone, if they have a plan (which, from the playtesters, you'd assume was the case.)

I think the Necron repackage leaks look good (points depending.)
But much of the Indomitus stuff by contrast... doesn't. So some big reveals would be nice.

Yeah it is absolutely true that the old, single-author books would have definite tones and agendas that varied based on how much the author cared about the faction.

They don't do that any more, the 8th edition releases are much more professional in not letting the biases of the writers show. Though the quality itself was still all over the place, particularly for the PA releases and, obviously, the SM 2.0 + supplement debacle.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Me personally I am extremely happy with what GW is doing, we live in exciting times and the game is getting updated like never before, old units will feel fresh again, and everyone will be happy when the new codex comes out for whichever faction you play. In the mean time, enjoy those 8th edition psychic awakening games, because every army with a decent list and general behind them kick ass even in 9th.

I think we can both agree on that. ;D

I'll just hope the people who came up with kustom jobs will do the ork codex, and not whoever was in charge of doing the 9th edition FAQs. The difference in quality between those is insane.

I've said many a time that when it comes time to get a codex the most important thing possiable is that the writer is passionate about the lore of the army.

To bad that rumor has it that one of the developers actively hate orks and drukhari...
The last thing we need is something like Matt Ward's 7th edition ork codex, written by a person that hated orks, didn't want to write the book and still had to do it.

I'm like 99% sure it wasn't Marr Ward that touched Orks.

It wasn't. The Ward 'ork' connection is actually the 7th edition WHFB orc and goblin book. That's the book he didn't want to do. (And him saying so was apparently in a WD interview/article about it)