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 Cruentus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Cruentus wrote:
My predictions:

1) I'm going to assume that Primaris get an additional would, taking them to 3, thereby making them still superior to the old marines

They're not.

Bzzt. Wrong.

From the GW preview today, re: their new SM Codex:

"Heavy Intercessors! And they’re called that for a reason – like their Captain, these bad-boys aren’t just heavily armed, they’re heavily armoured too, thanks to their Gravis armour. A Toughness 5 Troops unit with 3 Wounds apiece, anyone?"

And so it begins...

Mehruuns just got more mehreeineyr, so now we have meuhreens who took a better jeanseede with better meeehreen ahrmor than the emperor's guardians. Lmfao

This edition is disgusting, no faction other than mehreeeens have anything unique anymore.

Did anyone else notice the "core" keyword on heavy intercessors.

we moving to old fantasy rules here?

They have about the same statline as a Breacher, which is also a troop.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
WarCom article to read some other changes for yourself.

Simple question, interested to see what the data from Dakka looks like.

I'd like to see all basic troops go to two wounds(or more) and all or almost all the basic basic troop weapons go to Damage D2 (i.e. 1-3=1 damage, 4-6= 2 Damage not always doing 2 damage)

As a custodes player I am going "Okay, so when do I get a non forgeworld shooting unit on the quality of a heavy intercessor?"

stratigo wrote:
As a custodes player I am going "Okay, so when do I get a non forgeworld shooting unit on the quality of a heavy intercessor?"

you don't because you are an afterthought as an potential ally to the main show.

or atleast that is how it feels some times.

stratigo wrote:
As a custodes player I am going "Okay, so when do I get a non forgeworld shooting unit on the quality of a heavy intercessor?"

As soon as Cawl can figure out how to mount that puppy on a spear

Lol wasn't expecting this thread to crop back up again, the general "Dakka" consensus back then and from the discussions seemed to be cautious optimism and now, the reveal of the Heavy Intercessors are certainly something people are taking caution with.

Still, and this may be redundant to some, it all comes down to points. As a Necron fan and player seeing T5 W3 Chad marines in comparison to Immortals T5 W1 does leave me feeling deflated, buuuuuut I'm only paying 18ppm for my troop choice. (Yeah that small comfort I know when Intercessors are 20ppm and soon to be W2 tacticals are also 18ppm).

If H Intercessors end up being 35ppm+ then all's well that ends well right? Just another unit in a bloated codex nothing to see here.

Edit:

stratigo wrote:
As a custodes player I am going "Okay, so when do I get a non forgeworld shooting unit on the quality of a heavy intercessor?"

How many ppm is a Custodes? I'm not familiar with any of their units. Also do we know the new costs for Terminators which are going to be W3?

BrianDavion wrote:

stratigo wrote:
As a custodes player I am going "Okay, so when do I get a non forgeworld shooting unit on the quality of a heavy intercessor?"

As soon as Cawl can figure out how to mount that puppy on a spear

I mean, I can only hope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Lol wasn't expecting this thread to crop back up again, the general "Dakka" consensus back then and from the discussions seemed to be cautious optimism and now, the reveal of the Heavy Intercessors are certainly something people are taking caution with.

Still, and this may be redundant to some, it all comes down to points. As a Necron fan and player seeing T5 W3 Chad marines in comparison to Immortals T5 W1 does leave me feeling deflated, buuuuuut I'm only paying 18ppm for my troop choice. (Yeah that small comfort I know when Intercessors are 20ppm and soon to be W2 tacticals are also 18ppm).

If H Intercessors end up being 35ppm+ then all's well that ends well right? Just another unit in a bloated codex nothing to see here.

Edit:

stratigo wrote:
As a custodes player I am going "Okay, so when do I get a non forgeworld shooting unit on the quality of a heavy intercessor?"

How many ppm is a Custodes? I'm not familiar with any of their units. Also do we know the new costs for Terminators which are going to be W3?

Around 50 per guardian, which are mostly something you don't really have much use for except standing in a corner. They have almost no effect on the board state, they are just passive points generators.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
If H Intercessors end up being 35ppm+ then all's well that ends well right? Just another unit in a bloated codex nothing to see here.

Sure. Problem is power level probably puts them about 25-30.
I'm not convinced its the end of the world, but its just another obnoxious thing Marines get for... reasons.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Lol wasn't expecting this thread to crop back up again, the general "Dakka" consensus back then and from the discussions seemed to be cautious optimism and now, the reveal of the Heavy Intercessors are certainly something people are taking caution with.

Still, and this may be redundant to some, it all comes down to points. As a Necron fan and player seeing T5 W3 Chad marines in comparison to Immortals T5 W1 does leave me feeling deflated, buuuuuut I'm only paying 18ppm for my troop choice. (Yeah that small comfort I know when Intercessors are 20ppm and soon to be W2 tacticals are also 18ppm).

If H Intercessors end up being 35ppm+ then all's well that ends well right? Just another unit in a bloated codex nothing to see here.

Edit:

stratigo wrote:
As a custodes player I am going "Okay, so when do I get a non forgeworld shooting unit on the quality of a heavy intercessor?"

How many ppm is a Custodes? I'm not familiar with any of their units. Also do we know the new costs for Terminators which are going to be W3?

Bladeguard veterans with a stormshield and a better power weapon are 35.
Aggressors with 60 guns taped to them are 40

There is no way the Heavy Intercessor is going to be 35 points. I'd wager around 25-28.

28 would be fair. 8 additional points for the T5, W3, and S5 on the gun seems correct.

I wouldn't say 28 is 'fair'. Its way undercosted.
But so are all those other units...

 Ordana wrote:
I wouldn't say 28 is 'fair'. Its way undercosted.
But so are all those other units...

Except those units really aren't undercosted, unless you're suggesting anything Gravis is OP. I mean it's already a 20 page debate regarding Eliminators in this subforum so there's clearly different wavelengths going on. Plus the only real issue with Aggressors was double shooting on Overwatch, which is now solved.

I suppose Heavy Intercessors would finally give my Repulsor a real job. A demi-squad can actually benefit from the speed and can hold an objective when it gets to where its going.

They certainly seem like they were intended as marine killers too with their statline.

According to the leaks I got Tyranid Warriors are 27 points with an Assault 3 S5 AP-1 24" Deathspitter with a BS of 4+. They are 3W but T4 and 4+ save. 3 attacks though.

T5 and 3+ is definitely worth more than a point or two over T4 4+. But offensively the Deathspitter helps the Warrior with its Assault 3.

I think 28 is a little low, but not too far off.

So 30ppm just to err on the side of caution for H Intercessors?

I'm by no means a competitive player or a mathhammer savant but that sounds pretty decent to me...

 Insectum7 wrote:
According to the leaks I got Tyranid Warriors are 27 points with an Assault 3 S5 AP-1 24" Deathspitter with a BS of 4+. They are 3W but T4 and 4+ save. 3 attacks though.

T5 and 3+ is definitely worth more than a point or two over T4 4+. But offensively the Deathspitter helps the Warrior with its Assault 3.

I think 28 is a little low, but not too far off.

Thats assuming the Warriors were worth 27 points to begin with.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
According to the leaks I got Tyranid Warriors are 27 points with an Assault 3 S5 AP-1 24" Deathspitter with a BS of 4+. They are 3W but T4 and 4+ save. 3 attacks though.

T5 and 3+ is definitely worth more than a point or two over T4 4+. But offensively the Deathspitter helps the Warrior with its Assault 3.

I think 28 is a little low, but not too far off.

Thats assuming the Warriors were worth 27 points to begin with.

They were 25 in 8th and pretty solid. I haven't used them in 9th, but since a bunch of stuff went up I don't see a 2 point hike being particularly damning.

Although as any owner of an ork stompa will tell you, slapping more wounds on it doesn't always make it feel tougher. Sometimes having multiple separate entities can feel more durable

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
28 would be fair. 8 additional points for the T5, W3, and S5 on the gun seems correct.

Given that they got an additional wound as leaked and assuming no other changes in their datasheet, regular terminators are 31 ppm for a 3W T4 and +2 Save with a humble power sword and a crappy storm bolter. The range weapon of a heavy intercessor is far way better than a storm bolter + a power sword. In top of that regular terminators are not op sec and heavy intercessors are op sec and troop choice

imao 31 ppm for heavy intercessors is already quite undercosted in comparative.

psipso wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
28 would be fair. 8 additional points for the T5, W3, and S5 on the gun seems correct.

Given that they got an additional wound as leaked and assuming no other changes in their datasheet, regular terminators are 31 ppm for a 3W T4 and +2 Save with a humble power sword and a crappy storm bolter. The range weapon of a heavy intercessor is far way better than a storm bolter + a power sword. In top of that regular terminators are not op sec and heavy intercessors are op sec and troop choice

imao 31 ppm for heavy intercessors is already quite undercosted in comparative.

Not to mention Terminators have to pay points for Powerfists, etc. too. That adds up quick and is mandatory for a squad.

psipso wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
28 would be fair. 8 additional points for the T5, W3, and S5 on the gun seems correct.

Given that they got an additional wound as leaked and assuming no other changes in their datasheet, regular terminators are 31 ppm for a 3W T4 and +2 Save with a humble power sword and a crappy storm bolter. The range weapon of a heavy intercessor is far way better than a storm bolter + a power sword. In top of that regular terminators are not op sec and heavy intercessors are op sec and troop choice

imao 31 ppm for heavy intercessors is already quite undercosted in comparative.

Terminators arent getting the 3rd wound for free. They're poised to get, at minimum, a 5 point increase. Which puts the cheapest loadout (SB + PS) at 36. If loadouts remained weird and locked, you're looking at 41 points for a Terminator.

Also calling SBs crappy is highly entertaining.

 argonak wrote:
I suppose Heavy Intercessors would finally give my Repulsor a real job. A demi-squad can actually benefit from the speed and can hold an objective when it gets to where its going.

They certainly seem like they were intended as marine killers too with their statline.

.

Repulsors won’t have a job until they can live long enough to do it. Vehicles in general need a massive upgrade. They’re worse off than they were with armor facings. More guns can now hurt them, and the ones that could before can do it even easier. S9 LC’s “wounded” AV14 on 5’s. Now on 3’s. S8 wounded on 6’s, now on 4’s.

Breton wrote:

 argonak wrote:
I suppose Heavy Intercessors would finally give my Repulsor a real job. A demi-squad can actually benefit from the speed and can hold an objective when it gets to where its going.

They certainly seem like they were intended as marine killers too with their statline.

.

Repulsors won’t have a job until they can live long enough to do it. Vehicles in general need a massive upgrade. They’re worse off than they were with armor facings. More guns can now hurt them, and the ones that could before can do it even easier. S9 LC’s “wounded” AV14 on 5’s. Now on 3’s. S8 wounded on 6’s, now on 4’s.

And one S9 Lascannon shot could blow up a Land Raider.

Now, you need three at the ABSOLUTE minimum. On average, you'd need five failed saves, which is around 17 BS3+ Lascannons.

Before, hitting on a 3+ and glancing/penning on a 5+, you needed literally a SINGLE MORE Lascannon to kill it via HP damage. Not accounting for any penetrating hits.

 Insectum7 wrote:
According to the leaks I got Tyranid Warriors are 27 points with an Assault 3 S5 AP-1 24" Deathspitter with a BS of 4+. They are 3W but T4 and 4+ save. 3 attacks though.

T5 and 3+ is definitely worth more than a point or two over T4 4+. But offensively the Deathspitter helps the Warrior with its Assault 3.

I think 28 is a little low, but not too far off.

And Synapse. And Move 6, 3A and Scything talons for +1A. Heavy Intercessors do not (until we get Heavy Assault Intercessors) have 3A base, and a +1A chain sword.

Breton wrote:

And Synapse. And Move 6, 3A and Scything talons for +1A. Heavy Intercessors do not (until we get Heavy Assault Intercessors) have 3A base, and a +1A chain sword.

Heavy Intercessors explicitly do not have chainswords, or any melee weapons of any kind for that matter.

Sterling191 wrote:

Breton wrote:

And Synapse. And Move 6, 3A and Scything talons for +1A. Heavy Intercessors do not (until we get Heavy Assault Intercessors) have 3A base, and a +1A chain sword.

Heavy Intercessors explicitly do not have chainswords, or any melee weapons of any kind for that matter.

That’s what I just said?

 Insectum7 wrote:
According to the leaks I got Tyranid Warriors are 27 points with an Assault 3 S5 AP-1 24" Deathspitter with a BS of 4+. They are 3W but T4 and 4+ save. 3 attacks though.

T5 and 3+ is definitely worth more than a point or two over T4 4+. But offensively the Deathspitter helps the Warrior with its Assault 3.

I think 28 is a little low, but not too far off.

Warriors also have a 12 inch fearless bubble, and their shadow of the warp bubble. I could see GW deciding those traits where def worth a few points.