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sorry misunderstoodm thought you was talking of chaos lord, honestly i wont spend a relic slot for the periapt right now.

I’m diving into the book. Anyone else discouraged by the Lord of Contagions? Their damage output is meh regardless of what I try and do. No relics really help him (most of our stock relics are bad) and he has rhe same damage output as a Deathshroud Champion. I just don’t understand why his weapon isn’t mater-crafted or he doesn’t have 6 attacks. I really want him to be good, but he just isn’t.

What is the maximum damage build you can come up with against a primaries captain? I’m tracking using a man reaper (in reaper mode), deadly pathogen virulent fever, and the Mortarian’s Anvil relic warp insect hive. On average it will do 6.5 damage a turn.

That being said I can actually go higher damage on Deathshroud champion with buffs.

you use LOC with plaguereaper or with ferryman legion and the relic schyte, anyway you use it for his +3" contagion range with ferryman strat you add another +6, you have a model that at 2nd turn have a contagion range of 9" and with that plague company trait is useful...Still models now are not rated for their damage power but for what they bring on table, Dg play the missions (and they do very good) is not an army made to obliterate anything they touch.

I really think the main use for him is to have a hard-hitting guy providing re-rolls to someone. For that I would always pick the plague reaper, without spending any more CP or points on relics or pathogenes. I agree that those are always better spent on deathshroud champions, especially the relic.

I'm really torn on whether to run Typhus or not. He's great because he can cast psychic powers, has the aura reroll, and the only HQ in the codex that can do stuff in the command phase. Having to use his warlord trait though is the disappointing part. Much rather have Mortarion's Anvil or The Ferrymen

 l0k1 wrote:
I'm really torn on whether to run Typhus or not. He's great because he can cast psychic powers, has the aura reroll, and the only HQ in the codex that can do stuff in the command phase. Having to use his warlord trait though is the disappointing part. Much rather have Mortarion's Anvil or The Ferrymen

Yea Typhus is what I want my LoC to be weapon and damage wise. I agree it stinks having to use his warlord trait that doesn’t fit in most lists. He is well priced.

LOC for me is a good HQ choice, if i can i go for a DP anyway.

Regarding the HQ choices. I notice one thing. If we don't take lords, we can take 3 sorcerors/malignant plague castors and become a really castor heavy army. I am not saying the Lord choices are bad at all. And their reroll aura and stuff are going to be missed, but you can build your army around it.

If you want to go castor heavy, you can go Mortarion and a batallion with 3 plague castors. Then rely on deathshrouds to protect the plague castors and other characters. Deathshrouds are killy enough. The thing is, those plague castors are dealing mortal wounds to stuff within 12 inches on any psychic they cast. And Mortarion himself has two spells too.

So, you can create a deathball of plague castors guarded by deathshrouds. The 3 castors are casting 6 psychic per turn and dealing up to 6 mortal wounds on every successful cast within 12 inches. Then throw in that castor relic. Throw in Mortarion's additional two casts. The mortal wounds output is pretty awesome.

It can catch an opponent off guard. Suddenly such a deathguard list becomes a massive mortal wound machine. Got a question on plague castor though. If I use the Fugaris helm on a plague castor, does this mean that any successful cast of psychic will now do mortal wounds on the closest enemy unit within 15 inches instead of 12 ?

Don't have the book on me but I believe the helm only works on aura abilities

If I use the Fugaris helm on a plague castor, does this mean that any successful cast of psychic will now do mortal wounds on the closest enemy unit within 15 inches instead of 12 ?

No it works only on aura abilities

As for HQ choices, the biggest winner to me in my playtesting are the daemon princes.

6 S8 AP-3, D3 attacks are good.... but we can make it better.
Warp Insect Hive relic from mortarions anvil, and now your prince is rerolling all failed hit and wound rolls. Ok now his damage output is gross, but what about survivability?

The warlord trait to add +1 wound and 1-3s to wound always fail is nasty, and combined with his already chonky profile means he can survive wayyy more than your opponent will give credit to.

First test game my prince got jumped by gulliman, and he survived his crazy s14 D5 attacks or whatever, and survived with 2 wounds. Which meant he got to swing back, almost killing him. For a less than 200 point model, thats pretty good.

Furthermore the mortarions anvil aura ability to turn off rerolls means your opponent gets no extra advantages in combat. Nasty.

I have been running double patrol, with a prince leading each detachment. So far I havent really wanted to pay the detachment tax of the meq psychic.

But yea, loving the loaded out prince's utlity.

That WLT where 1-3 fails to wound seems nasty af. And the fact that the daemon engines are 3+ BS now makes them amazing.

People have been complaining about the change to loadout options for plague Marines but the more I think about it the more I don't think it is as big a deal as everyone is saying.

I am running most of my PM squads as just bolters and plague knives anyway with maybe at most one special weapon at most. So yeah, I don't think its that big a deal either.

Played my first codex game today against Imperial fists. A few things I learned:

-Mortarian is tough but against lots of shooting he went down in one turn of shooting. It take him 2 turns to get across the table. Lots of STR 5 bolters chips his health fast (Inceptors).

-The demon prince with sword and the relic rerolling all hits and wounds does some great damage.

-The army is so slow it hurts trying to get across the table. Charges from deepstrike are frustrating with no way to reduce change distances.

-The PBC are great especially with the strategem. Solid anti tank for sure. If you don’t run Mortarian run 3.

-I hate not having DR against damage 1 weapons. It feels so odd.

I lost, but it was close and very bloody.

I'm liking Daemon Prince with supporating plate so 2+ save and the warlord trait to ignore -1 and -2. It feels like he has a 2+ invulnerable until he gets hit with anti tank then his 5+ invulnerable steps in

Abaddon303 wrote:
I'm liking Daemon Prince with supporating plate so 2+ save and the warlord trait to ignore -1 and -2. It feels like he has a 2+ invulnerable until he gets hit with anti tank then his 5+ invulnerable steps in

The biggest issue I would think is that most armies have -3 AP weapons or higher on their melee units. Though not bad against many shooting attacks.

broxus wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
I'm liking Daemon Prince with supporating plate so 2+ save and the warlord trait to ignore -1 and -2. It feels like he has a 2+ invulnerable until he gets hit with anti tank then his 5+ invulnerable steps in

The biggest issue I would think is that most armies have -3 AP weapons or higher on their melee units. Though not bad against many shooting attacks.

Normally if my DP is in combat it's on my terms. Shooting I find is much more the time he gets wrecked. Normally after killing stuff and having nowhere to hide.

I do appreciate it's a valid point though as we don't control everything

I am browsing new codex, it sucks that squad of 5 blightlords cannot take 5 meltas.

All just something interesting that is easily missed. The Flash Outbreak Strategem increases the range of EVERY unit as if it was one round later (not just the unit that gains the extra contagion). That actually makes it even better.

After some games what I have to come to realize is that putting Gloaming Bloat on Mortarian is pretty darn important. It is very good. However, the choice for your other detachment warlord really is between Ferric Blight (extra AP) and The Droning. I have found the Ferric Blight trait to always do well for me. Suddenly the reaping scythe profiles are -2 AP and even your Poxwalkers and bolters are wounding at -1 AP. It is a pretty big buff and is equivalent to the SM doctrines for all your weapons. The Droning seems to be very good on paper, but in practice I find it rarely makes a difference. We just don’t have fast enough units to get near them turn 1 when it would really makes the most impact. We generally have to wait until the 2 or 3. I’m not going to say it isn’t good or useful, but is far more situational than the FB trait which is always good. The best part about the Ferrymen vector is the “On Drowning Wings” strategem. It really can make a large impact depending on your list.

What are your thoughts?

A Daemon Prince with the revoltingly resilient warlord trait and supperating plate makes a good "mini Mortarion".

I am thinking that some anti tank is rather important. I saw a battle report by tabletop titans where Adrian ran a list with 15 deathshroud terminators. That list was death to anything within flamer range. But he was facing a really shooty Iron Hands list with a fire raptor and 3 storm talons. The fire raptor literally just went into hover mode in the back lines and shot at the DG army all 5 turns.

In the end, just trying to stand on objectives and being shot at for 5 turns is not going to work. Adrian didn't have anything left by turn 5. We need some way of at least weakening or destroying a super shooty unit.



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broxus wrote:
All just something interesting that is easily missed. The Flash Outbreak Strategem increases the range of EVERY unit as if it was one round later (not just the unit that gains the extra contagion). That actually makes it even better.

After some games what I have to come to realize is that putting Gloaming Bloat on Mortarian is pretty darn important. It is very good. However, the choice for your other detachment warlord really is between Ferric Blight (extra AP) and The Droning. I have found the Ferric Blight trait to always do well for me. Suddenly the reaping scythe profiles are -2 AP and even your Poxwalkers and bolters are wounding at -1 AP. It is a pretty big buff and is equivalent to the SM doctrines for all your weapons. The Droning seems to be very good on paper, but in practice I find it rarely makes a difference. We just don’t have fast enough units to get near them turn 1 when it would really makes the most impact. We generally have to wait until the 2 or 3. I’m not going to say it isn’t good or useful, but is far more situational than the FB trait which is always good. The best part about the Ferrymen vector is the “On Drowning Wings” strategem. It really can make a large impact depending on your list.

What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I think the droning looks better on paper than it does in practise.

Since they changed the book to no longer allow 2 blight launchers they destroyed our ability to hang in the mid-board like in 8th edition. The MBH would have been useful, but they pointed it out of usefulness sadly. Hopefully they move it to around 120pts in the next FAQ so they become useable again. PBC are our only option right, they a e very solid and the core of our army. Even with Mortarian I’d never make a list with less than 2.

Long term I just don’t see DG being really competitive in tournaments. Too slow and one dimensional with an over design focus on melee buffs. They will never score enough points to be top tier without some points cuts and maybe a few unit additions. Honestly it just feels like running everything forward for 2-3 turns (to run the 24”) hoping you have to enough combat power to do something when you arrive at their lines.

Speaking of which why is the “toughest” army in the game not have a single defensive strategem other than cloud of flies? Why no transhumance, or counting as being in light cover, ignore-1 AP, etc? So weird.

broxus wrote:
Since they changed the book to no longer allow 2 blight launchers they destroyed our ability to hang in the mid-board like in 8th edition. The MBH would have been useful, but they pointed it out of usefulness sadly. Hopefully they move it to around 120pts in the next FAQ so they become useable again. PBC are our only option right, they a e very solid and the core of our army. Even with Mortarian I’d never make a list with less than 2.

Long term I just don’t see DG being really competitive in tournaments. Too slow and one dimensional with an over design focus on melee buffs. They will never score enough points to be top tier without some points cuts and maybe a few unit additions. Honestly it just feels like running everything forward for 2-3 turns (to run the 24”) hoping you have to enough combat power to do something when you arrive at their lines.

Speaking of which why is the “toughest” army in the game not have a single defensive strategem other than cloud of flies? Why no transhumance, or counting as being in light cover, ignore-1 AP, etc? So weird.

I would suggest (when COVID allows) trying to play some games with it. Whilst we can't predict what other codexes will look like, the current codex is extremely strong. In a game and mission set built on fighting for objectives in the midfield, their ability to hold objectives and push others off them is very strong. Don't underestimate them.

Impressed by the bloat drones. I took a Mower and Heavy Blight Launcher the other night. I went second and first turn moved them up to near my opponents unit of three dawneagles. I cast the psychic to expand the contagion aura on one, the heavy blight killed the first jetbike. Both charged, the mower killed the second and wounded the third and the other drone finished it off.

Certainly took my opponent by suprise and must have made their points back first turn. I lost the mower turn two after he'd seen what it can do but the Blight Launcher wiped a unit of scions and then bowled into a Leman Russ to tie it up turn two.

They reallyoffer some speed and harassment in an army that definitely needs it. The Mower and the HBL options seem to complement each other, I might try two pairs of each next game, I wish you could take them in units like the MBHs...


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Of course as soon as I posted that I realised three's my limit! I might try the FW variant in place of one of the HBL drones.

Hello DG players, I am trying to evaluate just how powerful DG has become, in a comp setting that is (Morty being every single army list for example). It seems for example that DG do what custodes do, but better, and in every possible way (except perhaps the mobility bit with dawneagles, but you guys do have flying drones which are just a bit slower so...).

They also have Mortarion, and custodes don't have any asset even remotely as good, IMHO. DG also has cheap troops and psykers, which are really great assets (especially cheap troops). You guys also have easy secondaries, just like all 9th codex have, but custodes will get them too probably so I don't think this point is relevant.

I don't play custodes, it is just that custodes is the only other "tanky elite" army I know quite a bit about.

I may be completely wrong, what do you guys think ? (I have a DA army (that I never play), and am pretty sure the supplement will have busted rules to match those for morty so, don't think I am being negative here, I just want the opinon of DG players...)

Also, could we compare DG to Necrons ? Durability, morty vs the silent king, etc.

Thanks in advance to anyone who wished to provide input on these, and sorry if this strays a bit too far from a "tactics" theme. But the "40k general disc" section is really, really not a place I want to post this in... You guys know what I mean

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
Long term I just don’t see DG being really competitive in tournaments. Too slow and one dimensional with an over design focus on melee buffs. They will never score enough points to be top tier without some points cuts and maybe a few unit additions. Honestly it just feels like running everything forward for 2-3 turns (to run the 24”) hoping you have to enough combat power to do something when you arrive at their lines.

This happen why you keep try play in 9th like we played in 8th...actually there is not a better army that can hold obiectives and fend off enemy units, but if you keep trying to engage on all front and destroy opponent yes DG is just mid tier unless you play Mortarion. Most games are win just control or deny the table, no need to remove one unit after another, that was 8th edition game style.

I would disagree from what I have seen and tested in my games so far. In missions with 4-5 objectives we are stronger. However, in missions with 6 we struggle much more due to low model count. If there isn’t a lot of terrain we will also struggle against shooting armies since we really don’t have much shooting back. Finally, DG really needed some good secondaries and we are lacking in that department. We struggle due to lack of speed to get the current secondaries which favor speed and range attacks. I don’t think DG are bad, but they lack the tools to truly be top tier for long. They will struggle to adapt to meta changes as everyone’s codexes get more damage output and their gimmick is survival

To summarize, DG are very one dimensional now which is a shame.

few models.... almost 90 models for an ELITE army for me are more than enough...If you want some extra long range fire, swap a FBD with another PBC or play MBH. If you demand to play Mortarion and bunch of termies you cant demand to have numbers, but you can find different approach, dont understimate poxwalkers for just 5pts.

Didn't see the above post, which makes the following a bit contextless, but sort of saying the same.

Would more Poxwalkers help?

I was initially sceptical - but for their points you get plenty of bodies which at T4/6+++ are reasonably resilient. I think in a 6 objective scenario you should be able to spread the sickness to 3+ objectives, making it a reasonable secondary choice. They can also help screen out deep strikes and so on.

It seems to me like 40-60 is a decent blob that doesn't cost that much - and are probably more annoying to deal with than say 10 Plague Marines with some blight launchers/plasma.

Admittedly if you are bringing Mortarion+2 or 3 PBCs points are quite tight.

40k doesn't usually work this way, but is there an argument that Mortarion is a win-more piece? If your opponent can deal with him reasonably efficiently then its potentially very bad. If they can't then you probably win - but they probably didn't have the heavy guns to deal with the 10 Terminators or whatever you brought instead, which might potentially have more flexibility.

Tyel wrote:
Didn't see the above post, which makes the following a bit contextless, but sort of saying the same.

Would more Poxwalkers help?

I was initially sceptical - but for their points you get plenty of bodies which at T4/6+++ are reasonably resilient. I think in a 6 objective scenario you should be able to spread the sickness to 3+ objectives, making it a reasonable secondary choice. They can also help screen out deep strikes and so on.

It seems to me like 40-60 is a decent blob that doesn't cost that much - and are probably more annoying to deal with than say 10 Plague Marines with some blight launchers/plasma.

Admittedly if you are bringing Mortarion+2 or 3 PBCs points are quite tight.

40k doesn't usually work this way, but is there an argument that Mortarion is a win-more piece? If your opponent can deal with him reasonably efficiently then its potentially very bad. If they can't then you probably win - but they probably didn't have the heavy guns to deal with the 10 Terminators or whatever you brought instead, which might potentially have more flexibility.

Thanks for the feedback.

Here is my list:


The list still needs some fine tuning, but if you play Mortarian (which Is likely required for competitive play) there are only so many ways to build DG.

The PBC do lots of work for sure, the pox walkers die fast to bolters but are cheap, and my opponents 3x Redemptors are a hard counter to my death shroud. Overall, as I said DG are not bad, they just are very in dimensional and lack codex depth and options to stay too tier long. They reducing the PM midrange firepower REALLY hurt. Otherwise we would have numerous other viable build options.


The reason spread the sickness really isn’t good is because you can only do one objective at a time and have to take 3D3 mortal wounds to get 9pts. However, deploy scramblers gets you 10 points and with outflank and deep strike is much easier to do a doesn’t require you to take mortal wounds. If they had allowed multiple points to be done each turn and maybe only 1 MW turn it would be much better. I would much rather have Oaths from the SM book for sure.

I do love the Flash Outbreak strategem now that I realize it increases my Army’s contagion range not just a single unit. They also did a great job of making all the support characters good and worth taking. I am also hopeful they FAQ you to be able to take a demon prince and LoC which will help give more list variety.

Yeah, I think while I keep trying to squint and claim otherwise you are right on Spread the Sickness. Deploy scramblers is easier than having to sequentially get to all objectives, even before factoring in mortal wounds. I can sort of see why they'd not want you to just put say 20 poxwalkers on one objective and claim 3 points each turn - even at the loss of D3 wounds or whatever - but its not like Oaths of the Moment is especially difficult to score.

At least at the moment I can't really see what you'd do differently to your list.