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I have been playing mostly Astra Militarum for the last two years or so.
Most of the time since the new Marine Codex dropped I was in for a hard time against them but had a chance.
With these new units this chance is completly obsolete. 3x Eradicator easily stomp the TCs. The other tanks and speeders shred the artillery and infantry.
Dudeface wrote: As just pointed in the news thread, if you give eradicators multimeltas, theyre now dropping 12 shots per unit
At a single target. That quickly becomes overkill, same as a (still theoretical) larger squad.
Its one of those options that sounds horrific on paper, but against normal vehicles and small squads, the only thing you're eradicating is your spare points.
Agreed. I think the basic Eradictor squad is pretty much all you're likely to need. 6 Melta shots backed up by some rerolls should be enough to deal with most threats. I'm not convinced you'd get enough benefit for the extra points of adding a MM instead.
@ Overkill: not really, one could rather say now they don't even have to be within Melta range...
Edit: forget it, I missed "only one per squad". I will leave my post anyway, just in spoilers:
Spoiler:
Against T8 3+ (like Leman Russ):
12 shots, 8 hits, 4 unsaved wounds, 14 damage at maximum range are enough.
Alternativly even when they are down one Eradicator they can still kill a LR in melta range in 1 single shooting phase (8 shots, 5.33 hits, 2.66 wounds * 1d6+2 damage = 14.66 damage.
Or as another alternative, they can now eradicate (pun intended) other Marines really well:
12 shots, 8 hits, 6.66 wounds, each with a 83.3% chance to kill a 1W Marine from 24'' and a 100% chance in Melta range.
Or against Gravis armor: 8 hits, 5.33 wounds, one Eradicator/Aggressor Squad gone, pretty sure even outside of Melta range... Yeah
Edit: just to be clear: I realized my math is off because they don't have 12 shots.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/12 19:46:42
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200
Dudeface wrote: As just pointed in the news thread, if you give eradicators multimeltas, theyre now dropping 12 shots per unit
At a single target. That quickly becomes overkill, same as a (still theoretical) larger squad.
Its one of those options that sounds horrific on paper, but against normal vehicles and small squads, the only thing you're eradicating is your spare points.
Agreed. I think the basic Eradictor squad is pretty much all you're likely to need. 6 Melta shots backed up by some rerolls should be enough to deal with most threats. I'm not convinced you'd get enough benefit for the extra points of adding a MM instead.
On average rolls with reroll 1s to hit/wound and no other buffs you're getting about 15 wounds to T8/3+ without an Invulnerable save. You might want the multi-melta if you see Knights or Land Raiders regularly but you're reliably one-rounding anything smaller.
Dudeface wrote: As just pointed in the news thread, if you give eradicators multimeltas, theyre now dropping 12 shots per unit
At a single target. That quickly becomes overkill, same as a (still theoretical) larger squad.
Its one of those options that sounds horrific on paper, but against normal vehicles and small squads, the only thing you're eradicating is your spare points.
Agreed. I think the basic Eradictor squad is pretty much all you're likely to need. 6 Melta shots backed up by some rerolls should be enough to deal with most threats. I'm not convinced you'd get enough benefit for the extra points of adding a MM instead.
Wait till the Codex drops and we see what Strats really power them up to super super broken levels.
(and how some people will still defend them even then)
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
GW wrote:The kit includes loads more options, such as the ability to swap out their melta rifles for an even harder-hitting heavy version.
Exactly, so theyll get 4 melta shots. Better cost like 60 points
What a friggin' gut punch that gun and the heavy intercessors are. It should be well more than 60 points. The double shoot just needs to go away at this point. Top that off with T5 W3 TROOPS.
The only thing I can glean is a gravis body is ~25 points. So the ultra Eradicators will be...45 points...
Oh...there is also a new keyword - CORE.
Chance of this not being a gak show is low at this point.
Even if the eradicators only get one heavy gun per squad that equals one dead Baneblade from three squads. Think three squads will = 550 points?
If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?
But I can deal with that, it's that new keyword that bothers me. Remember the last time we saw CORE in the rules? As in CORE and AUXILIARY? As in formations?
GW wrote:The kit includes loads more options, such as the ability to swap out their melta rifles for an even harder-hitting heavy version.
Exactly, so theyll get 4 melta shots. Better cost like 60 points
What a friggin' gut punch that gun and the heavy intercessors are. It should be well more than 60 points. The double shoot just needs to go away at this point. Top that off with T5 W3 TROOPS.
The only thing I can glean is a gravis body is ~25 points. So the ultra Eradicators will be...45 points...
Oh...there is also a new keyword - CORE.
Chance of this not being a gak show is low at this point.
Even if the eradicators only get one heavy gun per squad that equals one dead Baneblade from three squads. Think three squads will = 550 points?
If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?
But I can deal with that, it's that new keyword that bothers me. Remember the last time we saw CORE in the rules? As in CORE and AUXILIARY? As in formations?
Dudeface wrote: As just pointed in the news thread, if you give eradicators multimeltas, theyre now dropping 12 shots per unit
At a single target. That quickly becomes overkill, same as a (still theoretical) larger squad.
Its one of those options that sounds horrific on paper, but against normal vehicles and small squads, the only thing you're eradicating is your spare points.
Agreed. I think the basic Eradictor squad is pretty much all you're likely to need. 6 Melta shots backed up by some rerolls should be enough to deal with most threats. I'm not convinced you'd get enough benefit for the extra points of adding a MM instead.
Wait till the Codex drops and we see what Strats really power them up to super super broken levels.
(and how some people will still defend them even then)
If they get rebalanced points wise then they'll deserve defending.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/12 19:49:35
Gadzilla666 wrote: ...If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?...
Hey, if the heavy bolter damage buff propogates to the Adrasite combi-weapon (no guarantee, I know) a Saggitarius will still be slightly better than a Heavy Intercessor (2+ BS, 2+ armour, and a full heavy bolter on every model). They'll probably still make them twice the price for some reason.
Recalculated again:
with "just" Melta rifles the Eradicators get
6 shots, 4 hits, 2 wounds = 7(9 in Melta range) damage against a Leman Russ without rerolls
with Multimelta they get:
4 shots, 2.66 hits, 1.33 wounds = 4.66 (6 in melta range) damage from the rifles and
4 shots, 2.66 hits, 1.33 wounds = 4.66 (7.33 in melta range) damage from the MM So now just enough to kill a Leman Russ in one shooting phase.
Alternativly they can now blow up any Guard T7 3+ vehicle from outside Melta range
as above, but 1.78 wounds from each meltarifles and MM= 12.44 wounds outside of Melta range.
And I assume they are also that little bit better against other Marines when they take that MM
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200
If they get rebalanced points wise then they'll deserve defending.
Probbaly gone down in the Codex and then will double after the 2 week FAQ
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
GW wrote:The kit includes loads more options, such as the ability to swap out their melta rifles for an even harder-hitting heavy version.
Exactly, so theyll get 4 melta shots. Better cost like 60 points
What a friggin' gut punch that gun and the heavy intercessors are. It should be well more than 60 points. The double shoot just needs to go away at this point. Top that off with T5 W3 TROOPS.
The only thing I can glean is a gravis body is ~25 points. So the ultra Eradicators will be...45 points...
Oh...there is also a new keyword - CORE.
Chance of this not being a gak show is low at this point.
Even if the eradicators only get one heavy gun per squad that equals one dead Baneblade from three squads. Think three squads will = 550 points?
If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?
But I can deal with that, it's that new keyword that bothers me. Remember the last time we saw CORE in the rules? As in CORE and AUXILIARY? As in formations?
Surely they wouldn't.
Core will be to limit strat targets as a guess.
What's your reasoning for this theory? And how do you expect it to work?
Dudeface wrote: As just pointed in the news thread, if you give eradicators multimeltas, theyre now dropping 12 shots per unit
At a single target. That quickly becomes overkill, same as a (still theoretical) larger squad.
Its one of those options that sounds horrific on paper, but against normal vehicles and small squads, the only thing you're eradicating is your spare points.
Agreed. I think the basic Eradictor squad is pretty much all you're likely to need. 6 Melta shots backed up by some rerolls should be enough to deal with most threats. I'm not convinced you'd get enough benefit for the extra points of adding a MM instead.
Wait till the Codex drops and we see what Strats really power them up to super super broken levels.
(and how some people will still defend them even then)
If they get rebalanced points wise then they'll deserve defending.
True. If the price is right anything is ok. It's just a question of will they have that right price.
GW wrote:The kit includes loads more options, such as the ability to swap out their melta rifles for an even harder-hitting heavy version.
Exactly, so theyll get 4 melta shots. Better cost like 60 points
What a friggin' gut punch that gun and the heavy intercessors are. It should be well more than 60 points. The double shoot just needs to go away at this point. Top that off with T5 W3 TROOPS.
The only thing I can glean is a gravis body is ~25 points. So the ultra Eradicators will be...45 points...
Oh...there is also a new keyword - CORE.
Chance of this not being a gak show is low at this point.
Even if the eradicators only get one heavy gun per squad that equals one dead Baneblade from three squads. Think three squads will = 550 points?
If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?
But I can deal with that, it's that new keyword that bothers me. Remember the last time we saw CORE in the rules? As in CORE and AUXILIARY? As in formations?
Surely they wouldn't.
Core will be to limit strat targets as a guess.
What's your reasoning for this theory? And how do you expect it to work?
Dudeface wrote: As just pointed in the news thread, if you give eradicators multimeltas, theyre now dropping 12 shots per unit
At a single target. That quickly becomes overkill, same as a (still theoretical) larger squad.
Its one of those options that sounds horrific on paper, but against normal vehicles and small squads, the only thing you're eradicating is your spare points.
Agreed. I think the basic Eradictor squad is pretty much all you're likely to need. 6 Melta shots backed up by some rerolls should be enough to deal with most threats. I'm not convinced you'd get enough benefit for the extra points of adding a MM instead.
Wait till the Codex drops and we see what Strats really power them up to super super broken levels.
(and how some people will still defend them even then)
If they get rebalanced points wise then they'll deserve defending.
True. If the price is right anything is ok. It's just a question of will they have that right price.
Making something up entirely, imagine if transhuman physiology only affect a <chapter> CORE unit. Eradicators for example might not get the core word so it can't be used on them.
Again, making it up totally there, not a runour.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/12 20:41:58
vict0988 wrote: I forgot my other 5 Necron codices and my 9 supplements.
So... you don't have a rebuttal?
That is all the rebuttal that is needed, an SM player that whines because half their relics are bad should be told off and that's what I did. I didn't think it mattered that I counted 130+ because I had to count for the individual legion so 7 Relics vs 30. 11 vs 65 or 100 doesn't sound equal either. You can dance around this stupid pole all day, but SM players have no right to whine about half their relics being bad because it applies to every faction. Just like the SM players that whined when IH got nerfed, poor babies, you don't get more competitive relics than Necrons have relics all told.
Somebody please give Racerguy some more relics, the poor baby is crying.
I was the one complaining about Marine relics (and by the way I'm a Necron player too so there ya go), so plan your rebuttal for me. Also YEAH around 75% of the Marine relics are bad. For crying out loud, Iron Hands and Ultramarines get a worse version of the Burning Blade just because they needed to fill 6 relic entries! It's pointless!
Except Iron Hands and UMs DIDN'T get a worse version of the Burning blade. Burning blade replaces a power sword (or MC'd power sword) and that's it. the UM relic The Soldier's Blade, can replace a powersword MC powersword, OR a combat knife. it's niche but it means you can give a Phobos Captain or Leuitenant a bit of extra punch. in melee. it's not great no, but it does have some legit nice uses. The Axe of Medusa well.. it's a Power Axe, some units have to take a power axe, like ohhh.... TECHMARINES.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Making something up entirely, imagine if transhuman physiology only affect a <chapter> CORE unit. Eradicators for example might not get the core word so it can't be used on them.
Again, making it up totally there, not a runour.
Sounds rational to me. Stripping strats away from already good units could be a great balance lever.
vict0988 wrote: I forgot my other 5 Necron codices and my 9 supplements.
So... you don't have a rebuttal?
That is all the rebuttal that is needed, an SM player that whines because half their relics are bad should be told off and that's what I did. I didn't think it mattered that I counted 130+ because I had to count for the individual legion so 7 Relics vs 30. 11 vs 65 or 100 doesn't sound equal either. You can dance around this stupid pole all day, but SM players have no right to whine about half their relics being bad because it applies to every faction. Just like the SM players that whined when IH got nerfed, poor babies, you don't get more competitive relics than Necrons have relics all told.
Somebody please give Racerguy some more relics, the poor baby is crying.
I was the one complaining about Marine relics (and by the way I'm a Necron player too so there ya go), so plan your rebuttal for me. Also YEAH around 75% of the Marine relics are bad. For crying out loud, Iron Hands and Ultramarines get a worse version of the Burning Blade just because they needed to fill 6 relic entries! It's pointless!
Except Iron Hands and UMs DIDN'T get a worse version of the Burning blade. Burning blade replaces a power sword (or MC'd power sword) and that's it. the UM relic The Soldier's Blade, can replace a powersword MC powersword, OR a combat knife. it's niche but it means you can give a Phobos Captain or Leuitenant a bit of extra punch. in melee. it's not great no, but it does have some legit nice uses. The Axe of Medusa well.. it's a Power Axe, some units have to take a power axe, like ohhh.... TECHMARINES.
Yes you're gonna take a melee relic on a Techmarine LOL. Plus if you wanted the Techmarine to do melee just take the Chainsword and you can get Teeth of Terra to make up for lack of attacks.
And the combat knife replacing is not really a niche since those HQs are meant for camping in the first place, and a counter charger can be better done otherwise.
So yes. The Axe of Medusa and Soldier's Blade are just worse versions of the Burning Blade. They're relic entries for the sake of relic entries. That's just one example too. Like, imagine taking the Special White Scars banner over Emperor Ascendant or Righteous Hatred or even the specific Imperial Fist or Ultramarines ones. It's silly, quite frankly, especially in an army like White Scars that can already find ways to get a bonus to wound.
When you have no niche to fill, you are pointless. People complaining about the Marine relics have frankly not even read the entries. At all.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Dudeface wrote: Necrons got no PA content because they had a new codex round the corner, it was an intentional choice.
Which, naturally, is why the impending marine codex meant PA dropped the astartes buffs entirely.
Fuuuuuck off.
The Marine stuff was just stuff deliberatly cut from their codex to sell a PA book. And I can prove it. the strat to upgrade a Librarian to a cheif librarian was first shown off in a July white dwarf that gave us index astartes: Blood Ravens. which was basicly a preview of new options from the upcoming Marine codex. thus.. yeah they deliberatly withheld rules to sell PA to Marines.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Even if the eradicators only get one heavy gun per squad that equals one dead Baneblade from three squads. Think three squads will = 550 points?
If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?
But I can deal with that, it's that new keyword that bothers me. Remember the last time we saw CORE in the rules? As in CORE and AUXILIARY? As in formations?
Surely they wouldn't.
Nobody listens. GW loves to recycle. They probably have a distillery to recycle their own urine. I even wondered a few weeks ago if we wouldn’t be seeing the return of the double Det Cap/Chap free transports gimmick when someone mentioned Caps were 0-1.
The cynic in me wants to mention that the article states there is one multi melta per SET. The doors are still open to having more than 3 models per unit, one multi melta per 3. Although the math on that would definitely come out to overkill and you may as well have a stratagem that costs 1 CP and 240 points from your army list to remove one enemy model from the game.
Gadzilla666 wrote: ...If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?...
You’re asking the wrong question. What’s the point of the heavy intercessors? We have outriders. We will soon have heavy Intercessors. That’s ravenwing, deathwing, Wolf Guard, white scars bikers as part of an Impulsor Rush, a lot of thematic holes just got filled in a way to give those wonky lists Defenders of Humanity on some models.
Gadzilla666 wrote: ...If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?...
You’re asking the wrong question. What’s the point of the heavy intercessors? We have outriders. We will soon have heavy Intercessors. That’s ravenwing, deathwing, Wolf Guard, white scars bikers as part of an Impulsor Rush, a lot of thematic holes just got filled in a way to give those wonky lists Defenders of Humanity on some models.
Marine Player Asks "What Is The Point Of T5 W3 Troops With S5 AP-2 D2 Weapons?"
Gadzilla666 wrote: ...If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?...
You’re asking the wrong question. What’s the point of the heavy intercessors? We have outriders. We will soon have heavy Intercessors. That’s ravenwing, deathwing, Wolf Guard, white scars bikers as part of an Impulsor Rush, a lot of thematic holes just got filled in a way to give those wonky lists Defenders of Humanity on some models.
Marine Player Asks "What Is The Point Of T5 W3 Troops With S5 AP-2 D2 Weapons?"
Rhetorically asks, and then answers the question. Honesty isn’t your strong suit is it?
Gadzilla666 wrote: ...If heavy intercessors are T5 3W troops what's the point of Custodes?...
You’re asking the wrong question. What’s the point of the heavy intercessors? We have outriders. We will soon have heavy Intercessors. That’s ravenwing, deathwing, Wolf Guard, white scars bikers as part of an Impulsor Rush, a lot of thematic holes just got filled in a way to give those wonky lists Defenders of Humanity on some models.
Marine Player Asks "What Is The Point Of T5 W3 Troops With S5 AP-2 D2 Weapons?"
Rhetorically asks, and then answers the question. Honesty isn’t your strong suit is it?
that or reading comprehension.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/13 02:25:21
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
You’re asking the wrong question. What’s the point of the heavy intercessors?
Here, let me point it out to you juust in case you can't read your own post, or have forgotten what you wrote
So your problem is indeed reading comprehension. Go back and read his whole statement. as Breton said, it was a rhetorical question he provided the answer to.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200 
