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Is that in reference to my efficiency remark on eradicators vs a Repulsor Executioner? That was 6 eradicators. Double firing, assuming they moved to get the shot so are - 1 to hit: 12×.5=6 hits, S8 vs T8 wounding on 4s 6×.5=3 wounds, AP-4 blows right through the armour so no save Dd6+2 averages 5.5 damage per wound gets you 16 wounds, or a dead Repulsor Executioner. That's from 6 eradicators: 240 points.
"The waiting never stops"
It didn't for GK for quite a long time. So for 1 in 25 there was a lot of waiting.
Everything else happened along the schedule GW defined. Whether or not it changed things the way you or I wanted or expected is irrelevant. What did happen was continual updates that attempted to tackle root issues. We knew the design after a few books.
I don't buy a car without knowing the price, right?
Why would I spend my time bitching about Aggressors (and setting up disingenuous comparisons by using max shots - not you)?
And low and behold the anticipated nerf was real. Waiting was appropriate, was it not?
Arms race is less of a concern. We have PA as a stop gap and were not looking at index to codex levels of variance in play style (but certainly in potential unit updates). The new gear is points based so if the points are reasonable it may be a wash.
So, yes, ill wait and see if there's more info on eradicators. If they're bs then they're bs. If the 2 week FAQ doesn't turn them around *if* they're bsthen riot.
Oh, I'm not rioting. We've all seen this before. Like I said "scatbikes 2020". I just find it odd they did such a good job on the rest of the codex but missed the mark on eradicators. But if they change the Salamanders super doctrine, no worries, they'll still bounce off of my Fellblade and Achilles, assuming I'm stupid enough to let a full squad get within 24. I like a lot of these changes and they've got me excited for the new csm codex and the Imperial Armour Compendium. I hope I'm not disappointed.
BTW did you notice +1A per LC?
No, I didn't. See, something to get excited about. Warp talons with 4 attacks on the charge. They'll shred loyalists. Assuming they kept shred. They still reroll wounds right? And Reaper ACs are AP-2 now. I'm sure that will apply to normal ACs as well. Maybe butcher cannons? Yeah, can't wait to see the Compendium.
Vanican wrote: +1A per claw is a decent little buff, wonder if when we get a CSMfaq to change all the weapons they remember to apply that to my Claws of the Black Hunt relic.
Although (assuming no points changes) does +1A and +1W make a warp talon worth 27points? Still don't think so, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
If assault intercessors stay 27 then it is +1 ap, 5++, reroll wounds and deepstrike/fly for 10. Feels steep.
Not for Night Lords if we keep Prey On The Weak and Raptor Strike.
regarding nightlords, apparently reivers are getting a rule that removes obsec from nearby units' I'd not be at all suprised if that ended up as part of the night lords chapter tactics when C:CSM came out
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Galas wrote: I'll always love how marine apologist respond with "But your unit is actually crap" when somebody mentions a actually competitive unit of their codex and how inferior it is to a space marine unit, even after this one has been nerfed.
Space Marine units exist in a perpetual state of being "fine" (That translates to absolutely OP) and "unusable crap" (That range goes from good to actually kinda bad)
I have a marine army. But I'll say it now. The average Space Marine vocal player is an absolute cancer on competitive discussion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 06:02:52
Is that in reference to my efficiency remark on eradicators vs a Repulsor Executioner? That was 6 eradicators. Double firing, assuming they moved to get the shot so are - 1 to hit: 12×.5=6 hits, S8 vs T8 wounding on 4s 6×.5=3 wounds, AP-4 blows right through the armour so no save Dd6+2 averages 5.5 damage per wound gets you 16 wounds, or a dead Repulsor Executioner. That's from 6 eradicators: 240 points.
"The waiting never stops"
It didn't for GK for quite a long time. So for 1 in 25 there was a lot of waiting.
Everything else happened along the schedule GW defined. Whether or not it changed things the way you or I wanted or expected is irrelevant. What did happen was continual updates that attempted to tackle root issues. We knew the design after a few books.
I don't buy a car without knowing the price, right?
Why would I spend my time bitching about Aggressors (and setting up disingenuous comparisons by using max shots - not you)?
And low and behold the anticipated nerf was real. Waiting was appropriate, was it not?
Arms race is less of a concern. We have PA as a stop gap and were not looking at index to codex levels of variance in play style (but certainly in potential unit updates). The new gear is points based so if the points are reasonable it may be a wash.
So, yes, ill wait and see if there's more info on eradicators. If they're bs then they're bs. If the 2 week FAQ doesn't turn them around *if* they're bsthen riot.
Oh, I'm not rioting. We've all seen this before. Like I said "scatbikes 2020". I just find it odd they did such a good job on the rest of the codex but missed the mark on eradicators. But if they change the Salamanders super doctrine, no worries, they'll still bounce off of my Fellblade and Achilles, assuming I'm stupid enough to let a full squad get within 24. I like a lot of these changes and they've got me excited for the new csm codex and the Imperial Armour Compendium. I hope I'm not disappointed.
BTW did you notice +1A per LC?
No, I didn't. See, something to get excited about. Warp talons with 4 attacks on the charge. They'll shred loyalists. Assuming they kept shred. They still reroll wounds right? And Reaper ACs are AP-2 now. I'm sure that will apply to normal ACs as well. Maybe butcher cannons? Yeah, can't wait to see the Compendium.
Vanican wrote: +1A per claw is a decent little buff, wonder if when we get a CSMfaq to change all the weapons they remember to apply that to my Claws of the Black Hunt relic.
Although (assuming no points changes) does +1A and +1W make a warp talon worth 27points? Still don't think so, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
If assault intercessors stay 27 then it is +1 ap, 5++, reroll wounds and deepstrike/fly for 10. Feels steep.
Not for Night Lords if we keep Prey On The Weak and Raptor Strike.
regarding nightlords, apparently reivers are getting a rule that removes obsec from nearby units' I'd not be at all suprised if that ended up as part of the night lords chapter tactics when C:CSM came out
Oh, I'm not rioting. We've all seen this before. Like I said "scatbikes 2020". I just find it odd they did such a good job on the rest of the codex but missed the mark on eradicators.
That's what shocks me too.
All of the codex changes are truly nice, both for the SM and for the rest of the game.
Then you read eradicators...
Are we going to see the SM being turned into a mid/high tier faction that is propelled into OP due to an unbalanced datasheet?
Oh, I'm not rioting. We've all seen this before. Like I said "scatbikes 2020". I just find it odd they did such a good job on the rest of the codex but missed the mark on eradicators.
That's what shocks me too.
All of the codex changes are truly nice, both for the SM and for the rest of the game.
Then you read eradicators...
Are we going to see the SM being turned into a mid/high tier faction that is propelled into OP due to an unbalanced datasheet?
Yes, Like most of the dexes that were hightier...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 07:11:56
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Galas wrote: I'll always love how marine apologist respond with "But your unit is actually crap" when somebody mentions a actually competitive unit of their codex and how inferior it is to a space marine unit, even after this one has been nerfed.
Space Marine units exist in a perpetual state of being "fine" (That translates to absolutely OP) and "unusable crap" (That range goes from good to actually kinda bad)
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
no, try again
Galas wrote: I'll always love how marine apologist respond with "But your unit is actually crap" when somebody mentions a actually competitive unit of their codex and how inferior it is to a space marine unit, even after this one has been nerfed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 07:21:46
Well now that the codex has been leaked, the rules look fine. Erdictors got the 6 man unit with option to combat squads and a Multi Melta in every 3 dudes, which is nice, because some people were worried that they would be caped at 3 men. Now they are a lot more slot efficient.
Veteran intercessors for assault marines are a thing, so maybe those people who wanted to play a melee horde are going to find a slot for them. Hand flamers and melee weapons for all sgts not just assault intercessors ones are nice too.
Bummer about the aggresors nerf to all people that stocked up on them, but who knows, maybe they are still worth it. Am not a good player enough to judge the changes in points and rules.
Sad that heavy intercessors sgts do not have the melee upgrade options. a 2/2/2 auto boltgun, heavy auto boltgun, vet assault intercessors army looked cool on paper.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Karol wrote: Well now that the codex has been leaked, the rules look fine. Erdictors got the 6 man unit with option to combat squads and a Multi Melta in every 3 dudes, which is nice, because some people were worried that they would be caped at 3 men. Now they are a lot more slot efficient.
And that right there is either Trolling or prime example of the issue.
Only real hope at this point is a the 2 week eratta.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 07:47:51
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
no, try again
dude, the unit people are complaining about eradicators to are fire dragons. no one uses them because in 8th edition Melta has been GARBAGE
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 07:48:23
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
no, try again
dude, the unit people are complaining about eradicators to are fire dragons. no one uses them because in 8th edition Melta has been GARBAGE
Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
You do know that I don't play marines right? And that my dudes don't have access to erdictors, and probably never will.
And I think that over 40+ pages we established that non marine players hate them, while marine players generaly like to have an efficient anti tank options.
The worries about them were about the squad size, so I , although this is a speculation, assuming that marine players like the fact that the unit is 6 man strong, unlike eliminators, and by virtue of that more slot efficient.
From what perspective do you want me to write my posts from, oppressed xeno player?
Or to add how Abhore the Witch is unfair to my army? It seems like I can't get anything right. I write about GK, my army, it is bad because I write only about them. I try to write about armies and units from the army perspective, I am suddenly trolling. I make my first joke, I get a warning.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
no, try again
dude, the unit people are complaining about eradicators to are fire dragons. no one uses them because in 8th edition Melta has been GARBAGE
Mr Morden wrote: Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
He is not arguing wether Eradicators are balanced or not. He said that the comparison isn't useful because people take the new, super efficient unit and compare it to something nobody took in a competitive environment.
Designer's Note: Hardened Veterans can be represented by any Imperial Guard models, but we've really included them to allow players to practise their skills at making a really unique and individual unit. Because of this we won't be making models to represent many of the options allowed to a Veteran squad - it's up to you to convert the models. (Imperial Guard, 3rd Edition)
Mr Morden wrote: Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
He is not arguing wether Eradicators are balanced or not. He said that the comparison isn't useful because people take the new, super efficient unit and compare it to something nobody took in a competitive environment.
Your question here is misrepresenting his point.
What has the SpAcE mARinE pLayER StaMp Of ApPrOvaL to compare against then?
If the exact same unit, with the same weapons and that fulfils a similar goal is an invalid comparison. What is?
Mr Morden wrote: Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
He is not arguing wether Eradicators are balanced or not. He said that the comparison isn't useful because people take the new, super efficient unit and compare it to something nobody took in a competitive environment.
Your question here is misrepresenting his point.
What has the SpAcE mARinE pLayER StaMp Of ApPrOvaL to compare against then?
If the exact same unit, with the same weapons and that fulfils a similar goal is an invalid comparison. What is?
Unfortunately the sisters compare actually quite nice to the eradicators.
Eradicators look quite underpowered compared to the sisters, at least damage/point wise.
GW screwed up a lot of AT units with their new hotness for melta, not just eradicators.
Deal with it, you will not see anything with more than 3 wounds in 9th edition.
Karol wrote: You do know that I don't play marines right? And that my dudes don't have access to erdictors, and probably never will.
And I think that over 40+ pages we established that non marine players hate them, while marine players generaly like to have an efficient anti tank options.
The worries about them were about the squad size, so I , although this is a speculation, assuming that marine players like the fact that the unit is 6 man strong, unlike eliminators, and by virtue of that more slot efficient.
From what perspective do you want me to write my posts from, oppressed xeno player?
Or to add how Abhore the Witch is unfair to my army? It seems like I can't get anything right. I write about GK, my army, it is bad because I write only about them. I try to write about armies and units from the army perspective, I am suddenly trolling. I make my first joke, I get a warning.
Grey Knights are Marines - its in the keywords and everything. Look at my Sig Mate - I play MARINES but not a exclusively anything player. I just don't like unbalnced units - I said the same (repeatedly) about Eldar Cheese Serpents in previous editions.
Eradicators look quite underpowered compared to the sisters, at least damage/point wise.
Multimeltas look powerful now, it may be that they need a points bump. Oh but guess which weapon the Eradicators get as a free swap for every 3 of them. ??
Then there is the durability and combat prowess comparision of the two units.
Mr Morden wrote: Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
He is not arguing wether Eradicators are balanced or not. He said that the comparison isn't useful because people take the new, super efficient unit and compare it to something nobody took in a competitive environment.
Your question here is misrepresenting his point.
Its a simple question is it not? Why is it wrong to ask?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 08:30:24
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
no, try again
dude, the unit people are complaining about eradicators to are fire dragons. no one uses them because in 8th edition Melta has been GARBAGE
Dishonest argumentation is dishonest, Chosen with melta, aswell as obliterators were also compared. The later IS comptetitve.
P: 4 of this here thread even:
Not Online!!! wrote: The very fact that 3 of them cost 15 pts more then a singular obliterator , should maybee give pause for thought.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 08:38:26
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
no, try again
dude, the unit people are complaining about eradicators to are fire dragons. no one uses them because in 8th edition Melta has been GARBAGE
They were also compaired yo twin fusion veteran crisis suits with 2 fusion blasters which were used at the end of 8th but marine players won't respond yo that comparison as they are 60ppm and still worse than eradicators.
The Aggressor changes don’t bother me much because I rarely ever got to double tap with my Flamers, and those still won’t be penalized for running and shooting. Plus now I get an extra four inches of range which is super nice.
Eradicators should probably be dropped to an 18” range. Make them have to put a bit of work into getting into range.
Still waiting to see a Reiver sheet to see exactly what their changes are.
Mr Morden wrote: Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
He is not arguing wether Eradicators are balanced or not. He said that the comparison isn't useful because people take the new, super efficient unit and compare it to something nobody took in a competitive environment.
Your question here is misrepresenting his point.
What has the SpAcE mARinE pLayER StaMp Of ApPrOvaL to compare against then?
If the exact same unit, with the same weapons and that fulfils a similar goal is an invalid comparison. What is?
To start with, it's obvious GW agrees that basic melta weapons needed work, and 9th edition is going to see GW re-examining some weapons to make them be a bit better performing. As such comparing them to stuff in codex CWE or Orks etc has the flaw of "yeah their weapons are better because GW is boosting that class of weapons" we'd be best off to find a melta unit outside codex space marines to compare them too.
One whose armed with Imperial Melta weapons and thus we know how their weapons will perform, and thus can make a more honest comparison by looking at them beside marines with updated guns.
Sister of Battle retributors would be about perfect. take a look at them, assume the updated multi melta profile.. how do they compare?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
No brian, you don't get that favour, the comparisons were allready made to good units.
You wanting to argue further dishonestly is a squarly YOU issue.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Karol wrote: Well now that the codex has been leaked, the rules look fine. Erdictors got the 6 man unit with option to combat squads and a Multi Melta in every 3 dudes, which is nice, because some people were worried that they would be caped at 3 men. Now they are a lot more slot efficient.
Karol wrote: The worries about them were about the squad size, so I , although this is a speculation, assuming that marine players like the fact that the unit is 6 man strong, unlike eliminators, and by virtue of that more slot efficient.
is this.... you can't be.... wait wha.... how the... hell
WHAT discussion have you been reading where the concern about ERADICATORS was that they weren't slot efficient enough and needed to be buffed in that regards? Or that they needed to be buffed with new weapons?
This is too extreme levels of absurd to even be annoying, just..... just... what?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 08:49:42
Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.
Not Online!!! wrote: No brian, you don't get that favour, the comparisons were allready made to good units.
You wanting to argue further dishonestly is a squarly YOU issue.
no dude, I'm pointing out that ALL Melta weapons are being buffed, and therefore, you must examine eradicators in that light. I gave you a perfectly acceptable point of comparison. a fairly recent unit from another codex. that we know will get it's weapon changed in X a way.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Mr Morden wrote: Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
He is not arguing wether Eradicators are balanced or not. He said that the comparison isn't useful because people take the new, super efficient unit and compare it to something nobody took in a competitive environment.
Your question here is misrepresenting his point.
What has the SpAcE mARinE pLayER StaMp Of ApPrOvaL to compare against then?
If the exact same unit, with the same weapons and that fulfils a similar goal is an invalid comparison. What is?
To start with, it's obvious GW agrees that basic melta weapons needed work, and 9th edition is going to see GW re-examining some weapons to make them be a bit better performing. As such comparing them to stuff in codex CWE or Orks etc has the flaw of "yeah their weapons are better because GW is boosting that class of weapons" we'd be best off to find a melta unit outside codex space marines to compare them too.
One whose armed with Imperial Melta weapons and thus we know how their weapons will perform, and thus can make a more honest comparison by looking at them beside marines with updated guns.
Sister of Battle retributors would be about perfect. take a look at them, assume the updated multi melta profile.. how do they compare?
Like a tissue box being 5 t3 3+sv to 9T5 3+Sv wounds.
But that asside no buffs they do 9.3 wounds to a Russ for 140 points.
Eradicators 2 heavy plus MM do 9 if they move and shoot 12 if they don't for 120 points
Still undercosted and MFM 2020 is proven to be a complete take if it was supposed to have balanced points.
Vehicals need about 1/3 reduction in price Xeno players are being overcharged rediculously. But please continue with how this makes eradicators not the prime example of GW having failed to balance a unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 08:58:43
Not Online!!! wrote: No brian, you don't get that favour, the comparisons were allready made to good units.
You wanting to argue further dishonestly is a squarly YOU issue.
no dude, I'm pointing out that ALL Melta weapons are being buffed, and therefore, you must examine eradicators in that light. I gave you a perfectly acceptable point of comparison. a fairly recent unit from another codex. that we know will get it's weapon changed in X a way.
Stop arguing dishonestly by claiming "OnLy BaD UniTs WeRe UseD!!!!!!"""
in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"
no, try again
dude, the unit people are complaining about eradicators to are fire dragons. no one uses them because in 8th edition Melta has been GARBAGE
Dishonest argumentation is dishonest, Chosen with melta, aswell as obliterators were also compared. The later IS comptetitve.
P: 4 of this here thread even:
Not Online!!! wrote: The very fact that 3 of them cost 15 pts more then a singular obliterator , should maybee give pause for thought.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 08:56:38
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Mr Morden wrote: Do you think Eradicators are fair and balanced?
He is not arguing wether Eradicators are balanced or not. He said that the comparison isn't useful because people take the new, super efficient unit and compare it to something nobody took in a competitive environment.
Your question here is misrepresenting his point.
What has the SpAcE mARinE pLayER StaMp Of ApPrOvaL to compare against then?
If the exact same unit, with the same weapons and that fulfils a similar goal is an invalid comparison. What is?
To start with, it's obvious GW agrees that basic melta weapons needed work, and 9th edition is going to see GW re-examining some weapons to make them be a bit better performing. As such comparing them to stuff in codex CWE or Orks etc has the flaw of "yeah their weapons are better because GW is boosting that class of weapons" we'd be best off to find a melta unit outside codex space marines to compare them too.
One whose armed with Imperial Melta weapons and thus we know how their weapons will perform, and thus can make a more honest comparison by looking at them beside marines with updated guns.
Sister of Battle retributors would be about perfect. take a look at them, assume the updated multi melta profile.. how do they compare?
Like a tissue box being 5 t3 3+sv to 9T5 3+Sv wounds.
But that asside no buffs they do 9.3 wounds to a Russ for 140 points.
Eradicators 2 heavy plus MM do 9 if they move and shoot 12 if they don't for 120 points
Still undercosted and MFM 2020 is proven to be a complete take if it was supposed to have balanced points.
Vehicals need about 1/3 reduction in price Xeno players are being overcharged rediculously. But please continue with how this makes eradicators not the prime example of GW having failed to balance a unit.
Better yet, find me 2 more examples of units from the leaks they failed to balance.
Dudeface wrote: Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.
Unfortunately the sisters compare actually quite nice to the eradicators.
Eradicators look quite underpowered compared to the sisters, at least damage/point wise.
GW screwed up a lot of AT units with their new hotness for melta, not just eradicators.
Deal with it, you will not see anything with more than 3 wounds in 9th edition.
Not at all. Those sisters retributors are T3 1W 3+ dudes that cost 32ppm. Eradicators look 10 times better, because they aren't glass cannon while their damage output is certainly not inferior.
Sisters melta retributors were and they may be finally good while their army is not going to dominate the meta because of it. Eradicators were overpowered before and they're even more overpowered now. Their army was dominating the meta before, and I'm referring to any possible levels of gaming from ultra casual to ultra competitive, (tournament data from Australia aren't real info), and will continue to do it.
And I wouldn't be so sure about what we're going to see or not. When 9th was released many players considered armies with cheaper infantry models dead, with only the more elite oriented ones to perform well, and they ended up wrong. Now we may assume that this edition will still be the elite oriented one or some return of the hordes but let's wait 1-2 months and we'll all predict completely different metas.
I just find it odd they did such a good job on the rest of the codex but missed the mark on eradicators. But if they change the Salamanders super doctrine, no worries, they'll still bounce off of my Fellblade and Achilles, assuming I'm stupid enough to let a full squad get within 24. I like a lot of these changes and they've got me excited for the new 
take if it was supposed to have balanced points.
