Oaka wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Chief Apothecary and Eradicators. No reroll hits (don't need them, really), but the ability to make them stick around seems quite strong.

Doctrines are as is. Even without Salamanders this will be stupid strong.

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-codex-space-marines-9th-edition/

Holy gak. This guy. This fething guy. He loses the re-roll abilty he had before, but picks up the old Selfless Healer Warlord trait that lets him heal two models instead of one. Now hold on, you might be saying, what if I wanted to take Father of the Future for that 6+ ignore wounds? Well, you’re in luck, because that’s now baked into the Apothecary’s datasheet (though notably, it now has no bonus effect for Iron Hands, who instead have to live with the same 6+ as everyone else gets. Boo hoo). So for +15 pts, you’re essentially getting both of the Faith & Fury Warlord Traits with the option of a new-and-improved Selfless Healer, which makes him heal a flat 3 wounds instead of d3 on both of his targets, and also lets them use the new Combat Revival stratagem for free, letting them revive a dead model at full wounds without having to spend your precious CP. You can also give him the Acquittal relic bolt pistol, which has a decent profile at strength 5, AP-3, damage 2. It only gets better when you point it at an INFANTRY model, though, since it always wounds on a 2+ and goes up to an impressive damage 4.

Why waste it on a 3-wound Eradicator when you can bring back an 8-wound ATV?

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Eradicators were considered the strongest unit in the entire game, and the #1 unit in need of a nerf, by almost the entirety of the competitive community including every single reasonable SM player I've seen (yes, they are rarity on this particular website I'm aware). But to react to them getting buffs by saying "phew, seems there was nothing to worry about, this was the ideal outcome" just displays that you are so far fething disconnected from the competitive scene that you should not be spouting out anywhere near the amount of declarations on the state of faction balance as you do.

Karol wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Eradicators were considered the strongest unit in the entire game, and the #1 unit in need of a nerf, by almost the entirety of the competitive community including every single reasonable SM player I've seen (yes, they are rarity on this particular website I'm aware). But to react to them getting buffs by saying "phew, seems there was nothing to worry about, this was the ideal outcome" just displays that you are so far fething disconnected from the competitive scene that you should not be spouting out anywhere near the amount of declarations on the state of faction balance as you do.

I have never in my life, and I go to a sports school, met anyone person who though that just being good is enough. Just because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be even better. And something about erdictors did get better, the squad size, being core etc and people were worried that GW may make them worse, as they did change stuff to be worse after a short time. No one was happy that their recast leviathans suddenly became worse, if they played IH.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Eradicators were considered the strongest unit in the entire game, and the #1 unit in need of a nerf, by almost the entirety of the competitive community including every single reasonable SM player I've seen (yes, they are rarity on this particular website I'm aware). But to react to them getting buffs by saying "phew, seems there was nothing to worry about, this was the ideal outcome" just displays that you are so far fething disconnected from the competitive scene that you should not be spouting out anywhere near the amount of declarations on the state of faction balance as you do.

I have never in my life, and I go to a sports school, met anyone person who though that just being good is enough. Just because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be even better. And something about erdictors did get better, the squad size, being core etc and people were worried that GW may make them worse, as they did change stuff to be worse after a short time. No one was happy that their recast leviathans suddenly became worse, if they played IH.

Ho

Lee

gak


Am I the only one reading this? Seriously someone pinch me, this cannot be real life lmao. Someone weigh in here and tell me they are seeing this same absurdity right now?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Eradicators were considered the strongest unit in the entire game, and the #1 unit in need of a nerf, by almost the entirety of the competitive community including every single reasonable SM player I've seen (yes, they are rarity on this particular website I'm aware). But to react to them getting buffs by saying "phew, seems there was nothing to worry about, this was the ideal outcome" just displays that you are so far fething disconnected from the competitive scene that you should not be spouting out anywhere near the amount of declarations on the state of faction balance as you do.

I have never in my life, and I go to a sports school, met anyone person who though that just being good is enough. Just because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be even better. And something about erdictors did get better, the squad size, being core etc and people were worried that GW may make them worse, as they did change stuff to be worse after a short time. No one was happy that their recast leviathans suddenly became worse, if they played IH.

Ho

Lee

gak


Am I the only one reading this? Seriously someone pinch me, this cannot be real life lmao. Someone weigh in here and tell me they are seeing this same absurdity right now?

No, it's a pretty accurate description of a true WAAC.

It's also a mindset, furthered by social institutions respectively.
It doesn't help that Karols introduction was in a shop that was basically only such people.
Frankly it's also less a Karol problem, he himself admited he was in therapy.
Truth is it isn't an uncommon opinion to have, and considering how GW balances stuff seemingly more via pendulum swings but with adding force in the other direction after every high point it isn't even unfounded.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Eradicators were considered the strongest unit in the entire game, and the #1 unit in need of a nerf, by almost the entirety of the competitive community including every single reasonable SM player I've seen (yes, they are rarity on this particular website I'm aware). But to react to them getting buffs by saying "phew, seems there was nothing to worry about, this was the ideal outcome" just displays that you are so far fething disconnected from the competitive scene that you should not be spouting out anywhere near the amount of declarations on the state of faction balance as you do.

I have never in my life, and I go to a sports school, met anyone person who though that just being good is enough. Just because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be even better. And something about erdictors did get better, the squad size, being core etc and people were worried that GW may make them worse, as they did change stuff to be worse after a short time. No one was happy that their recast leviathans suddenly became worse, if they played IH.

Ho

Lee

gak


Am I the only one reading this? Seriously someone pinch me, this cannot be real life lmao. Someone weigh in here and tell me they are seeing this same absurdity right now?

No, it's a pretty accurate description of a true WAAC.

It's also a mindset, furthered by social institutions respectively.
It doesn't help that Karols introduction was in a shop that was basically only such people.
Frankly it's also less a Karol problem, he himself admited he was in therapy.
Truth is it isn't an uncommon opinion to have, and considering how GW balances stuff seemingly more via pendulum swings but with adding force in the other direction after every high point it isn't even unfounded.

Wait, I'm having trouble here. It sounds like you're interpreting his stance is more or less "I know this was a totally busted unit, and it just got more busted. But I am happy about this anyway because I'm feth balance, my army is stronger, ez wins, gg noobs". And I agree, this is indeed a common stance for terrible players who struggle to win otherwise, and even with a massive power imbalance in their favor will still face significant strategic challenge.

But the impression that I'm getting here from reading Karol's explanation is that he's saying "Eradicators were okay before, but they've been improved upon by being buffed, and this is good game design overall" for.... I dunno, no real reason has been given that I can discern other than another ham-fisted analogy / thinly veiled excuse to mention again that he went to a sports school.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Then if it’s not honesty from him, and it’s him parroting biased honesty from others, then all I have to say is.... who the hell is he listening to? What’s the point in weighing in on this thread like “well, good job GW it seems you improved the game by buffing Eradicators and people are happy with this”, like what the hell? Just... if you’re gonna make a statement in this thread about what people are saying, please; first read what people in here are actually saying, jfc. Because I didn’t see a single post in this entire thread saying Eradicators needed buffs or that they should have been buffed, let alone this being the general reception as his obliviousness would imply

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Then if it’s not honesty from him, and it’s him parroting biased honesty from others, then all I have to say is.... who the hell is he listening to? What’s the point in weighing in on this thread like “well, good job GW it seems you improved the game by buffing Eradicators and people are happy with this”, like what the hell? Just... if you’re gonna make a statement in this thread about what people are saying, please; first read what people in here are actually saying, jfc. Because I didn’t see a single post in this entire thread saying Eradicators needed buffs or that they should have been buffed, let alone this being the general reception as his obliviousness would imply

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Then if it’s not honesty from him, and it’s him parroting biased honesty from others, then all I have to say is.... who the hell is he listening to? What’s the point in weighing in on this thread like “well, good job GW it seems you improved the game by buffing Eradicators and people are happy with this”, like what the hell? Just... if you’re gonna make a statement in this thread about what people are saying, please; first read what people in here are actually saying, jfc. Because I didn’t see a single post in this entire thread saying Eradicators needed buffs or that they should have been buffed, let alone this being the general reception as his obliviousness would imply

Considering he is talking about the perception of his LOCALS, i seriously think you missed the mark.

Dudeface wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Then if it’s not honesty from him, and it’s him parroting biased honesty from others, then all I have to say is.... who the hell is he listening to? What’s the point in weighing in on this thread like “well, good job GW it seems you improved the game by buffing Eradicators and people are happy with this”, like what the hell? Just... if you’re gonna make a statement in this thread about what people are saying, please; first read what people in here are actually saying, jfc. Because I didn’t see a single post in this entire thread saying Eradicators needed buffs or that they should have been buffed, let alone this being the general reception as his obliviousness would imply

They're saying the people he plays with love it when good units get buffed and nobody likes their models being nerfed.

Its taken, what 5-6 outraged condescending paragraphs from you and still not acknowledged that simple single sentence which was Karols point.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Then if it’s not honesty from him, and it’s him parroting biased honesty from others, then all I have to say is.... who the hell is he listening to? What’s the point in weighing in on this thread like “well, good job GW it seems you improved the game by buffing Eradicators and people are happy with this”, like what the hell? Just... if you’re gonna make a statement in this thread about what people are saying, please; first read what people in here are actually saying, jfc. Because I didn’t see a single post in this entire thread saying Eradicators needed buffs or that they should have been buffed, let alone this being the general reception as his obliviousness would imply

Considering he is talking about the perception of his LOCALS, i seriously think you missed the mark.

Here's the posts he made.

Spoiler:

Karol wrote:
Well now that the codex has been leaked, the rules look fine. Erdictors got the 6 man unit with option to combat squads and a Multi Melta in every 3 dudes, which is nice, because some people were worried that they would be caped at 3 men. Now they are a lot more slot efficient.

Veteran intercessors for assault marines are a thing, so maybe those people who wanted to play a melee horde are going to find a slot for them. Hand flamers and melee weapons for all sgts not just assault intercessors ones are nice too.

Bummer about the aggresors nerf to all people that stocked up on them, but who knows, maybe they are still worth it. Am not a good player enough to judge the changes in points and rules.

Sad that heavy intercessors sgts do not have the melee upgrade options. a 2/2/2 auto boltgun, heavy auto boltgun, vet assault intercessors army looked cool on paper.

Karol wrote:
You do know that I don't play marines right? And that my dudes don't have access to erdictors, and probably never will.

And I think that over 40+ pages we established that non marine players hate them, while marine players generaly like to have an efficient anti tank options.

The worries about them were about the squad size, so I , although this is a speculation, assuming that marine players like the fact that the unit is 6 man strong, unlike eliminators, and by virtue of that more slot efficient.

From what perspective do you want me to write my posts from, oppressed xeno player?
Or to add how Abhore the Witch is unfair to my army? It seems like I can't get anything right. I write about GK, my army, it is bad because I write only about them. I try to write about armies and units from the army perspective, I am suddenly trolling. I make my first joke, I get a warning.

Nothing about locals, quite clearly stating that the rules look fine to he himself, and that to marine players overall the Eradicators buffs seems like a good thing. This entire thread is a testament to that not being the case, even Marine players were saying they will be nerfed, everyone needs to chill until we see the rules, blah blah blah. Not what happened.

AFTER I asked who he's listening to, he goes on to mention it being Marine players online, and of course his toxic local. Excluding Karol's invented local meta that he simply uses as an anecdote to serve whatever stance he chooses at the time, I ask again - WHERE is he reading and listening to acting like the general reception is that Eradicators needed buffs? That's NOT what 40k players, not even Marine players, have been saying lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Then if it’s not honesty from him, and it’s him parroting biased honesty from others, then all I have to say is.... who the hell is he listening to? What’s the point in weighing in on this thread like “well, good job GW it seems you improved the game by buffing Eradicators and people are happy with this”, like what the hell? Just... if you’re gonna make a statement in this thread about what people are saying, please; first read what people in here are actually saying, jfc. Because I didn’t see a single post in this entire thread saying Eradicators needed buffs or that they should have been buffed, let alone this being the general reception as his obliviousness would imply

They're saying the people he plays with love it when good units get buffed and nobody likes their models being nerfed.

Its taken, what 5-6 outraged condescending paragraphs from you and still not acknowledged that simple single sentence which was Karols point.

Read the above, and try to keep up.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:


Here's the posts he made.

Spoiler:

Karol wrote:
Well now that the codex has been leaked, the rules look fine. Erdictors got the 6 man unit with option to combat squads and a Multi Melta in every 3 dudes, which is nice, because some people were worried that they would be caped at 3 men. Now they are a lot more slot efficient.

Veteran intercessors for assault marines are a thing, so maybe those people who wanted to play a melee horde are going to find a slot for them. Hand flamers and melee weapons for all sgts not just assault intercessors ones are nice too.

Bummer about the aggresors nerf to all people that stocked up on them, but who knows, maybe they are still worth it. Am not a good player enough to judge the changes in points and rules.

Sad that heavy intercessors sgts do not have the melee upgrade options. a 2/2/2 auto boltgun, heavy auto boltgun, vet assault intercessors army looked cool on paper.

Karol wrote:
You do know that I don't play marines right? And that my dudes don't have access to erdictors, and probably never will.

And I think that over 40+ pages we established that non marine players hate them, while marine players generaly like to have an efficient anti tank options.

The worries about them were about the squad size, so I , although this is a speculation, assuming that marine players like the fact that the unit is 6 man strong, unlike eliminators, and by virtue of that more slot efficient.

From what perspective do you want me to write my posts from, oppressed xeno player?
Or to add how Abhore the Witch is unfair to my army? It seems like I can't get anything right. I write about GK, my army, it is bad because I write only about them. I try to write about armies and units from the army perspective, I am suddenly trolling. I make my first joke, I get a warning.

Nothing about locals, quite clearly stating that the rules look fine to he himself, and that to marine players overall the Eradicators buffs seems like a good thing. This entire thread is a testament to that not being the case, even Marine players were saying they will be nerfed, everyone needs to chill until we see the rules, blah blah blah. Not what happened.

AFTER I asked who he's listening to, he goes on to mention it being Marine players online, and of course his toxic local. Excluding Karol's invented local meta that he simply uses as an anecdote to serve whatever stance he chooses at the time, I ask again - WHERE is he reading and listening to acting like the general reception is that Eradicators needed buffs? That's NOT what 40k players, not even Marine players, have been saying lol

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
BTW whenever Karol mentions his “local” it’s entirely safe to ignore that completely, as he’s been caught out tripping over his lies before with mutually exclusive statements based a year apart that he forgot about. He simply invents an anecdote from his local to support his stance in every single thread, which is why he ALWAYS has one that conveniently lines up with whatever he’s saying.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Karol wrote:
and I go to a sports school

Oh really? I never knew! That totally never clicked to me all the other times you've mentioned it in every other thread on this site. Did anyone else know Karol went to a sports school? Or that he does wrestling? And that he's from Poland? And that all of these things make a flawless analogy and comparison for everything 40k?

I agree, Karol plays in a very special environment and also seems to live in a very special environment of which I had never thought it was even possible in Poland.

 Oaka wrote:

Why waste it on a 3-wound Eradicator when you can bring back an 8-wound ATV?

 AduroT wrote:
Don your tinfoil hats! Do you think they’ll nerf these guys in the first FAQ, and will that happen before or after their kit comes out?

 AduroT wrote:
Don your tinfoil hats! Do you think they’ll nerf these guys in the first FAQ, and will that happen before or after their kit comes out?

Karol wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Eradicators were considered the strongest unit in the entire game, and the #1 unit in need of a nerf, by almost the entirety of the competitive community including every single reasonable SM player I've seen (yes, they are rarity on this particular website I'm aware). But to react to them getting buffs by saying "phew, seems there was nothing to worry about, this was the ideal outcome" just displays that you are so far fething disconnected from the competitive scene that you should not be spouting out anywhere near the amount of declarations on the state of faction balance as you do.

I have never in my life, and I go to a sports school, met anyone person who though that just being good is enough. Just because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be even better. And something about erdictors did get better, the squad size, being core etc and people were worried that GW may make them worse, as they did change stuff to be worse after a short time. No one was happy that their recast leviathans suddenly became worse, if they played IH.

 Argive wrote:
So ive been not paying attention for the last 20 pages on all these threads.


Can i just take a punt:

Marines (and specificaly eradicators) didint really get a nerf and the usual suspects have performed spectacular feats of mental gymnastics from "lets wait and see" to " well taking 3 of these units seems pretty waac so I WILL NEVER DO THST THEREFORE THERE IS NO PROBLEM" and the classic "marines have only been top army for 6 months and remember eldar from x editions ago? They clearly deserve to be strong.."

Sounds about right?

Did I win a cookie?

I love you all dakkanauts. Taking a week off and coming back to see the mayhem was a good shout

Darsath wrote:
I think we'll see Dreadnoughts no longer being core in about a month's time. I've been seeing what people have been theory crafting, and it's pretty hilarious.

Darsath wrote:
I think we'll see Dreadnoughts no longer being core in about a month's time. I've been seeing what people have been theory crafting, and it's pretty hilarious.

 Ordana wrote:

Darsath wrote:
I think we'll see Dreadnoughts no longer being core in about a month's time. I've been seeing what people have been theory crafting, and it's pretty hilarious.

Any reason to believe the Dread lists won't lose to hordes/Harlequins like the current set of marine lists that went to hard into anti-space marines are doing?

ERJAK wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:
So ive been not paying attention for the last 20 pages on all these threads.


Can i just take a punt:

Marines (and specificaly eradicators) didint really get a nerf and the usual suspects have performed spectacular feats of mental gymnastics from "lets wait and see" to " well taking 3 of these units seems pretty waac so I WILL NEVER DO THST THEREFORE THERE IS NO PROBLEM" and the classic "marines have only been top army for 6 months and remember eldar from x editions ago? They clearly deserve to be strong.."

Sounds about right?

Did I win a cookie?

I love you all dakkanauts. Taking a week off and coming back to see the mayhem was a good shout

Marines did get toned down, just very gently. Mostly their power just moved out of easy stuff (aggressors) into more difficult to use units (terminators, bladeguard), the Eradicators being the obvious exception

 Argive wrote:
So ive been not paying attention for the last 20 pages on all these threads.


Can i just take a punt:

Marines (and specificaly eradicators) didint really get a nerf and the usual suspects have performed spectacular feats of mental gymnastics from "lets wait and see" to " well taking 3 of these units seems pretty waac so I WILL NEVER DO THST THEREFORE THERE IS NO PROBLEM" and the classic "marines have only been top army for 6 months and remember eldar from x editions ago? They clearly deserve to be strong.."

Sounds about right?

Did I win a cookie?

I love you all dakkanauts. Taking a week off and coming back to see the mayhem was a good shout