Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'd lean towards GK and SoS being immune, but SoB not being immune - but trigger-happy if corruption of their own is suspected, and with good PR to clean up afterwards.

Custodes are an interesting one - I imagine the Emperor being around helped shield them during the Webway fight at the start of the Heresy, and while they were mostly on Terra I'd guess the odds on them being exposed to the taint was lower.

I don't recall anything about the Custodes being blunts - that would imply a similar sort of protection to SoS, which I imagine would've come up in rules or novels at some point. I could see them having the training and discipline to avoid a fall, as well as some form of direct protection from the Emperor via their armour, though.

In the case of the Shiny Golden Boys, let's go with "no known cases" for now, until an example is out there.

Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.

It's sort of a major spoiler so I'm even putting the story its in in a spoiler. That said it does take basically the focused attention of a Greater Demon to achieve. It's even respected in the source that it "shouldn't happen" but did.
So it can happen, but it is rare. Certainly during a battle chances are its not going to happen, which makes those with the Pariah gene powerful combatants, but during a prolonged exposure one could be corrupted to Chaos.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.

All Tau are "blunt" - it just means little but some presence in the Warp, Tau can be corrupted.

Then there are Pariahs who have zero presence and disrupt the warp by their very presence.

Dan A makes great stories and has often written alot of the lore we use now - but he does change it to fit the story (or forgets/ignores stuff), same as other authors like ADB. Makes life interesting

 harlokin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

The Order Of The Piercing Thorn is there any sepecifics on them being chaos corrupted?

No specific details of what transpired, which I quite like.

What we know is that The Piercing Thorn specialised in fighting Chaos, and were famous for commando style tactics. Their Canoness, Setheno The Gorgon discovered some sort of taint, and petitioned for them to be purged. She gathered a force from other Orders and personally annihilated The Piercing Thorn; every sister was slaughtered, every vehicle demolished, the Order's fortress was bombed and burnt to the ground, and the land was purified with holy salt.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
As I've said before on these forums, in the fluff a GK initiate is psychically monitored for a straight 99 days/nights before being given the gene-therapy to start becoming a SM. After the transformation is complete (not sure how long that takes) they are mentally, physically & psychically trained for 50 years before being considered a full space marine brother. At this time they're given access to suits of Power Armor, Interceptor Jump Packs & a suit of Terminator Armor.

SoB, while fanatically devoted, are just humans and can be corrupted like any other human.

Custodes are stringently psychic blunts and if fluff is to be believed, supposedly damn-near immortal and completely incorruptible. I believe the proximity to the Emperor has some merit to their incorruptibility. In addition, the part about them fighting daemons for seven straight years before the HH happened inside of the Webway, throught the portal under the Imperial Palace. How constant is time in the Webway...they could have been fighting for a considerably longer period of time, relatively speaking.

ok, feel a need to interject here, the custodes do NOT date back to the heresy era. they're still continually recruiting. and yes they eventually get old and eventually retire

El Torro wrote:
I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

They are a bunch of religious fanatics who fervently believe in the Imperial Creed. That's why the Adepta Sororitas rarely fall to Chaos. There's only been one who has, and I'm not even sure if she's still canon.
The Space Marines are not quite religious fanatics, because they know the Emperor is their "grandfather", not a god, and the traitor legions' loyalty were to their primarchs first and to the emperor second. Whilst they do revere him, they don't worship him like the Eccliesarchy do.
They are certainly fanatics, but they aren't religious.

Given that aphrael stern is clearly canon - she and kyganil have their own model - then so is daemonifuge and hence so is an entire order of corrupted sisters.

locarno24 wrote:
Given that aphrael stern is clearly canon - she and kyganil have their own model - then so is daemonifuge and hence so is an entire order of corrupted sisters.

I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.

Is there any hint where the Custodes are "blunt" comes from?

locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.

Different kinds of corruption between those two though.
Sabathiel chose to become a champion of chaos, whereas the other sisters appear to be variously possessed or mutated - those in the screaming cage are the reason why the daemonifuge exists.

For me the three factions in the imperium that are immune to chaos make sense.

Grey knights can resist, because of their extremely focused training and gear. Their selection process is just that strict and grueling.

Custodes are incorruptible by design. Every single one of them being a handcrafted masterpiece of gene-alchemy. They are physically incapable to betray the emperor. Drach'nyen, one of the most powerful demons stated in a Horus heresy book, that stars would die before he would be able to corrupt a custodes.

I would also disagree that both these factions are Mary sues or border on being ones (except draigo...). The Grey knights are fanatics and commit countless atrocities to keep the information about chaos secret.
The custodes are functionally immortal, peerless warriors etc etc, but they lack any initiative to help or better the imperium. Their singular focus is the emperor, Terra and the Sol system. Yet they look down on the current state of the imperium, because they know how the emperors original vision for the imperium would have looked like, which makes them massive, massive hypocrites. Most of them are also spectacularly uncharismatic.

The sisters of silence being immune makes sense due to their blank nature. They see the creatures of the warp for what they actually are, there is no beguiling them.

The sororitas have fallen to chaos as far as I can remember, even though their zealous nature surely helpes them to be more resistent to being corrupted I guess.

I think it also speaks to the grimdark nature of the imperium that those three factions that are practically immune to chaos are far to few in number to make an actual difference.
As stated in watchers of the throne the custodes can only really effectively fight demons in conjunction with the sisters of silence.
The Grey knights are of course specialized to fight chaos and are best suited for it, but they are too few in number to make a lasting difference. They are able to push back the worst demon invasions, but always at great cost. They can basically only rage against the dying of the light and thats it.
This is what makes them interesting in my opinion.

A.T. wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.

Different kinds of corruption between those two though.
Sabathiel chose to become a champion of chaos, whereas the other sisters appear to be variously possessed or mutated - those in the screaming cage are the reason why the daemonifuge exists.

I think the problem lies in the wording of her fluff. She's described as "the only known Battle-Sister in the history of the Imperium of Man to have willingly turned to the service of Chaos".
Who here would say that the Death Guard turned to Chaos willingly? Or the Thousand Sons? "Under duress" is more like it.

 Super Ready wrote:
Who here would say that the Death Guard turned to Chaos willingly? Or the Thousand Sons? "Under duress" is more like it.

All of them turned willingly, choosing what they believed to be the best course for themselves. Exceptions would be those like Fulgrim who were possessed, at least initially.

I'll accept the Death Guard's case is debatable, but... to me it's not much of a choice. The alternative was an indeterminate continuation of floating in the void, and eventually, death or possession, or conversion into Plaguebearers and the like anyway.
It's a lot like how people under interrogation or torture will often confess to things they never did, or even start believing that they did them.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Why is it ok for Grey Knights to be immune and not others. After all hundreds of the thousands of Astartes have fallen across the millenia.

Far more than that.

 Super Ready wrote:
The alternative was an indeterminate continuation of floating in the void, and eventually, death or possession, or conversion into Plaguebearers and the like anyway.

Yeah they could have gone with martyrdom and they didn't. Not the same as mind-control or stuff.

bibotot wrote:
Why should all Imperial factions be liable to Chaos corruption? The true question is: why so few aliens are corrupted by Chaos.

There are plenty out there. Many are just not mentioned in mainline GW background. The primary ones in GW background proper are the Crone World Eldar and Chaos Orks (the latter of which tend to self-destruct quite quickly as other Orks tend to kill them for being "un-Orky"), but there are others in the RPG material like the Yu'Vath, (presumably) the Rak'Gol and (maybe) the Loxatl.

I feel this is such an untapped vein of background, like in the places you can go with it. We've seen how four limbed upright apes depict the gods, how about a race of cephalopods? What would they pile high in the name of Khorne for example? But we're going OT here...

The mere idea that any human being is *immune* to chaos is the most un-40k ever, more so than Imperium being the good guys.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

 Dysartes wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

Officially licenced card game

The mere idea that any human being is *immune* to chaos is the most un-40k ever

Can't argue with that with possible exception of blanks

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

I assume the objection to it having to be Slaanesh is because hur-durrr, it's a woman and Prince of Sexytimes and all that...? If so - I've gotta say it's been handled well. Her fluff focuses more on torture, murder and hunting Eldar - hence avoiding the more obvious stuff - and she's even wearing pretty much the same as any other Sister. Bullet dodged, I say.

 Dysartes wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

Why wouldn't it be Slaanesh? Slaanesh isn't just about sex, you know. Slaanesh is about desire and sensation in general, as well as a strong theme of indulgence of the self and pride. Its why Fulgrim fell, iirc; he wasn't horny, he was arrogant.
It is entirely possible for a Sister to want more than a simple monastic life in eternal fealty to the Emperor and to live more of her life, and from that standpoint making a pact with the Prince of Excess makes sense.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

Why wouldn't it be Slaanesh? Slaanesh isn't just about sex, you know. Slaanesh is about desire and sensation in general, as well as a strong theme of indulgence of the self and pride. Its why Fulgrim fell, iirc; he wasn't horny, he was arrogant.
It is entirely possible for a Sister to want more than a simple monastic life in eternal fealty to the Emperor and to live more of her life, and from that standpoint making a pact with the Prince of Excess makes sense.

I feel Slaanesh is the most cerebral of the Chaos gods. Khorne? Mindless killing so long as there is blood and skulls in their name. Nurgle? Entropy and rot. Nothing that isn't going to happen anyway IMHO, will probably be the victor thanks to entropy. Tzeentch? Changer of ways? Sure they are the behind-the-scenes manipulator but exactly that makes me think the adherents of Tzeentch may be being manipulated more than they realize. They seem to be the embodiment of Dunning Kruger.

Slaanesh? Sure they are considered the embodiment of ecstasy and decadence but ask anyone in the BDSM world how much thought goes into scenes (true a lot of that is to make sure everyone SURVIVES the scene, which isn't a priority to Chaos I guess but you know what I mean) or any audiophile how much a 24k gold connector is different from an 18k gold connector, that stuff doesn't come about naturally. Or a sommelier or gourmand ...

I'm sure there may have been an element of Slaanesh Durr hurr sexytime in the original decision but because she's still in battle plate while the uniform of Slaanesh is bodice and breast hanging out it's fairly indicative of the fact she isn't there for that .

Kayback wrote:
Tzeentch? Changer of ways? Sure they are the behind-the-scenes manipulator but exactly that makes me think the adherents of Tzeentch may be being manipulated more than they realize. They seem to be the embodiment of Dunning Kruger.

About half of Tzeentch followers came there because they are seekers of knowledge, how is that not cerebral?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Kayback wrote:
Tzeentch? Changer of ways? Sure they are the behind-the-scenes manipulator but exactly that makes me think the adherents of Tzeentch may be being manipulated more than they realize. They seem to be the embodiment of Dunning Kruger.

About half of Tzeentch followers came there because they are seekers of knowledge, how is that not cerebral?

Like I said in my post, Dunning Kruger. Look at "Flat Earthers" doing "High IQ research" on Youtube. Thinking you're smarter than you are isn't very cerebral. I'm willing to bet most of the people unlocking the secrets of the warp aren't anywhere near as smart or as good as they think they are. Look at the Thousand Sons as an example. They didn't even know they were in the service of Tzeentch. Look at Ahriman and his Rubric.

You can say that Slaanesh is more loving than Papa Nurgle; more bloody than Khorne and smarter than Tzeentch because Slaanesh is excess.

Slaanesh followers wouldn't be intelligent, they'd be bloated on it. Which is why the other 3 gods dislike Slaanesh more than each other; they can see that Slaanesh has potential to absorb them all.

Tzeentch followers are indeed smarter, at least the leaders. Seeking knowledge is what draws them to Tzeentch and what Tzeentch uses to tempt them in. Sure they are often not gifted everything, normally enough to cause trouble and such. Tzeentch will forever withhold information so that they keep coming back for more; each time being more and more corrupted.


AS for not knowing you are/were serving a Chaos God, that's normal for all four of them. Some followers know they follow the Gods, but hope that they can trick them or otherwise come out ahead; others are willing to trade their immortal soul for the chance at power, wealth and immortality (hey you can have my soul, but I'll never die etc..); others are blissfully unaware that they are treading the path of chaos.

Even Inquisitors have been twisted, corrupted and turned to using the forces of the Warp and Chaos.

Kayback wrote:
Look at "Flat Earthers" doing "High IQ research" on Youtube.

Just because it's dumb doesn't make it less cerebral. Doing research on the internet is cerebral. I mean, you barely move a muscle when you do it...