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Veil, shoot, charge and hope for that 9, fight, fall back, shoot again.

I'm looking at the Veil of Darkness and I don't see anything that precludes moving (before or) after having used it, is there something in the Core rules that prevents this? I must be missing something I guess.

If it happens "at the end of the Movement Phrase", then no movement can happen after it unless a special rule allows the unit to move out-of-phase.
Units CAN move BEFORE something that happens "at the end of the Movement Phase" though.

actually, Veil happens "during youre movement phase" not at the end of it. I wish it was at the end because then Szeras could buff them before they go on their merry way

I feel like theres a rule though that being redeployed counts as moving.

Pg 363 of the BRB covers it. Basically if you reposition with the veil, you count as having moved a distance equal to your move characteristic and additionally may not make a Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back, or Remain Stationary.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Pg 363 of the BRB covers it. Basically if you reposition with the veil, you count as having moved a distance equal to your move characteristic and additionally may not make a Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back, or Remain Stationary.

Ah yes, that's what I was missing, in the Rare Rules section. Thank you!

Seems like they could have just made you use it in the reinforcements section of the movement phase, but ah well.

So I can move them before, just not after.

Hey Guys,

i am going to play a game on thursday evening against some Space Wolves. We play 1500P.
My List will be this:



The Doomstalker (I realy like them!) and the Technomancer stay in backfield with 10 of the Warriors as meetshield.
The VD going one side with the Scarabs against smite.
The overlord the other side with his 28 Warriors.
I play the hexmark just for fun.

I will Write about them Game on friday. The pros and cons and stuff.
Thanks for Reading it anyway.

Looks good!
Why did you split the warriors into two 10 man units? Would it not be better to have them in one big unit for reanimation protocols?


Has anyone played with the annihilation barge yet? I feel even with the huge buffs it got it still is completely overshadowed by the other entries in the heavy support slot. And it also fills an anti infantry role (or tries to) that Necrons usually already have covered by troops or attached to their other vehicles.

I assume the Warriors got split as you need 3 Troops for a Battalion.

The Annihilation Barge still seems overpriced and therefore overshadowed by other options in the same slot. The bigger Tesla weapons aren't all that great, even with the increase to the number of shots they got in the new Codex and anti-infantry is something the rest of the list usually does pretty well. You're often better off with some Heavy Destroyers, or more Doomstalkers or a DDA. The price difference is almost always worth it.

Slipspace wrote:
I assume the Warriors got split as you need 3 Troops for a Battalion.

There is no need for a battalion. That army can be played as a patrol detachment, and that only requires 2 troop slots. It would be better to play the two 10 warriors units as one 20 model unit.

 p5freak wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
I assume the Warriors got split as you need 3 Troops for a Battalion.

There is no need for a battalion. That army can be played as a patrol detachment, and that only requires 2 troop slots. It would be better to play the two 10 warriors units as one 20 model unit.

Agreed.

I get the need for the backfield screening but you could drop 4 warriors from one of the 10 man squads, merge it into a squad of 16 next to the 18 man squad and have 3 scarab bases perform the same backfield role.

it would be a significantly smaller portion of your army points wise doing the same thing (and you'd actually get a higher wound count in total too!)

Thanks for the Feedback.



I changed the List a little bit. Its a Patrol now and i only got two troups of Warriors.
I only got 6 Scarabs so far, thats why I took 15 Warriors.

Thanks for the answers.:-)

Gesundheit wrote:
Thanks for the Feedback.

Spoiler:

[Necrons 1500 Final (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [75 PL, 10CP, 1,490pts]
Patrol Detachment 0CP (Necrons) [75 PL, 1,490pts, 10CP]
Configuration
Battle Size [12CP]
Selections: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Dynasty Choice
Selections: Dynasty: Mephrit
HQ
Overlord [6 PL, 130pts, -2CP]
Selections: Hand of the Phaeron, Relic: Sempiternal Weave, Resurrection Orb, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant, Warscythe
Technomancer [5 PL, 110pts]
Selections: Arkana: Prismatic Obfuscatron, Canoptek Control Node
Troops
Necron Warriors [12 PL, 260pts]
20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer)
Selections: 20x Gauss Flayer
Necron Warriors [12 PL, 195pts]
15x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer)
Selections: 15x Gauss Flayer
Elites
C'tan Shard of the Void Dragon [18 PL, 350pts]
Selections: Power of the C'tan: Sky of Falling Stars
Hexmark Destroyer [4 PL, 75pts]
Fast Attack
Canoptek Scarab Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]
3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Selections: 3x Feeder Mandibles
Canoptek Scarab Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]
3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Selections: 3x Feeder Mandibles
Heavy Support
Canoptek Doomstalker [7 PL, 140pts]
Canoptek Doomstalker [7 PL, 140pts]

I changed the List a little bit. Its a Patrol now and i only got two troups of Warriors.
I only got 6 Scarabs so far, thats why I took 15 Warriors.

Thanks for the answers.:-)

Space Wolves will eventually be eager to charge you asap if there are fast moving cc units; you know what units I mean.
Then you need a resistant force that can deal damage. Your army is not optimized for this.

Space Wolves often field Long Fangs in the backfield which can deal damage.
You need ways to deal with these small heavily specialized units asap.

Not convinced of your army.

Well, there is the void dragon and the overlord. At 1500 p you have to choose something, and I would try first if that is not enough before making fundamental changes about the list. Obviously the Hexmark is also not optimized for killing marines, but I feel we are not talking about a top of the crowd tournament setting here

The only thing I would change now before trying it is the cryptec arkana. If you intend to keep the cryptek in the back with the doomstalkers, it should be possible to hide him anyway from being shot at. Maybe the Hypermaterial Ablator (cover for 1 unit) or the Cortical Subjugator Scarabs (heroic intervention in 6") are better as a general purpose arkana? I have not tried the Scarabs though, maybe someone else has more input?

Well, I think about Thunderwolf Cavalry led by a Wolflord or Wulfen that can definitely take down a Voiddragon or an Overloard.

Killing the Void Dragon without help from psychic powers or similar takes at least two rounds, if you can avoid being shot at even more.
I see no real margin to cut something in this list. Two troop choices, two reasonable characters, two heavy support, scarabs for screening and backfield objectives. What part of the army would you change?

Cut the void dragon. I dont think its worth 350 pts. What if your opponent has no vehicles ? The VD isnt very fast, some vehicles can outrun him. Ctans are very vulnerable against psychic attacks, because necrons have a hard time denying them. All we have is TSK, a stratagem which requires a specific dynasty, and only works on 4+, and a spyder with gloom prism, which can deny one psychic power.

First of all thanks for all the comments.

I lost the Game: 73 / 34

What if your opponent has no vehicles ?

That is exactly what happend.
Hey played
2 x 3 riders
2 x 5 tacticals
Ragnar
6 termis? With 4 lascas
1 droppod with 7? Guys and ragnar inside
1 big blob of the Guys with jumppack
And 2 More characters
(He does Not play Primaris (beside ragnar) cause of fluff reasons, honorable)

But i think the VD performed very well!
I did horrible mistakes wich lost the Game. First of all i placed the VD to far on one side of the table.
My First Turn didnt went well either. I moved my scarabs like 3 inches the screen my Warriors and my doomstalkers. The shooting was realy Good, but his saves where much better. 11 Shots with my doomstalkers into his lasca troup 8 hits 6 saves with a stormshield. I Roll 2 damage. Reroll 1 still 2 damage.....
My Warriors where able to shoot at his tactical squads. Like 10 shots per squad. I did 1 wound.

His Turn. He did no damage with shooting at all.:-) but ran to me as fast as He Could. Droppod came midfield. First riders miss the 10“ charge,
Droppod Guys do the 9“ charge into my doomstalkers screen (i totaly forgot about the droppod, mistake 1) second riders do the 12“ charge into my scarabs (second mistake,should have stayed out of Range or More then 4“ away of my Warriors).
He kills my scarabs and rearange into my 20 Warriors.....(with both troups)

Turn 2
I move the Warriors out of combat, the vd straight to the 7 guys and the riders, my overlord follows him. Deploy my hexmark in the backfield. He kills 3 of 1 tactical squad, my doomstalkers kill the shieldtermi and 2 lascas (I forgot the hole game about the second weapon) my Warriors on the left kill 1 assault marine (with 20 shots....) my lord charges into the 7 man squad my VD into the Rider squad wich missed the charge.
My lord kills 5 of the squad (that went well! :-) ) my VD kill all 3 riders (one where already on 1 wound cause of his powers)

He shots my lord with his lascas cause I didn’t thought about he could just walk out of combat like a filthy dog.... clever boy... dumb me!
He charges the 20 warriors with his riders and ragnar. The 15 warrior get charged by his assault marines and 1 of the characters.
I do overwatch with my doomstalkers and the Warriors. No hits with the warriors, 5 hits with the doomstalker but just 1 ****** wound! This wound did 6 damage.:-)
I lose the hole 15 warriors. On the other side I lose 16 warriors to the riders. 14 stand up again. (Now there is a rule question, where to set the warriors up again after Reanimation? We both thought just in coherency but I don’t know if this is right) so I placed them out of ragnars range.

Turn 3
It seems pretty lost but I try my best!
The VD moves to the riders my warriors move out of combat. My doomstalker kill the troop assaultmarines. Just the character is left alive. My VD kill 2 riders and leave 1 with 1 wound.

His turn. Ragnar ran to my doomstalker. And the character does that too. The rider dies to the VD. Ragnar dies to overwatch of my doomstalker. The character killed my technomacer. And rearrange into both doomstalker (again a mistake....)

Turn 4 my VD kill his character in CC.....
He kills 1 doomstalker with 2 lascas (like realy man.....)


Nothing more to say. I did it horrible....
Pros:
Doomstalker are fun and more consistent then I thought
The VD is Slow but, but damn he is good at killing elite stuff!
My overlord performed well in CC

Contra:
I need something to get out of CC and shoot
My Save roles are like crazy bad
15 warriors are not that taff

I am going to do many things different! First of all my missions, second my positioning, third a few things in the List.
Next time I play against Orcs! I will write another List and will give another feedback!

Hi, do we know when GW will be releasing the plastic flayed ones and Chronomancer that we have seen?

Gesundheit wrote:
First of all thanks for all the comments.

I lost the Game: 73 / 34

What if your opponent has no vehicles ?

That is exactly what happend.

Well, the drop pod is a vehicle, but once its deployed its job is done. If you want an elite killer the nightbringer does that even better.

Gesundheit wrote:
First of all thanks for all the comments.

I lost the Game: 73 / 34

What if your opponent has no vehicles ?

That is exactly what happend.
Hey played
2 x 3 riders
2 x 5 tacticals
Ragnar
6 termis? With 4 lascas
1 droppod with 7? Guys and ragnar inside
1 big blob of the Guys with jumppack
And 2 More characters
(He does Not play Primaris (beside ragnar) cause of fluff reasons, honorable)

But i think the VD performed very well!
I did horrible mistakes wich lost the Game. First of all i placed the VD to far on one side of the table.
My First Turn didnt went well either. I moved my scarabs like 3 inches the screen my Warriors and my doomstalkers. The shooting was realy Good, but his saves where much better. 11 Shots with my doomstalkers into his lasca troup 8 hits 6 saves with a stormshield. I Roll 2 damage. Reroll 1 still 2 damage.....
My Warriors where able to shoot at his tactical squads. Like 10 shots per squad. I did 1 wound.

His Turn. He did no damage with shooting at all.:-) but ran to me as fast as He Could. Droppod came midfield. First riders miss the 10“ charge,
Droppod Guys do the 9“ charge into my doomstalkers screen (i totaly forgot about the droppod, mistake 1) second riders do the 12“ charge into my scarabs (second mistake,should have stayed out of Range or More then 4“ away of my Warriors).
He kills my scarabs and rearange into my 20 Warriors.....(with both troups)

Turn 2
I move the Warriors out of combat, the vd straight to the 7 guys and the riders, my overlord follows him. Deploy my hexmark in the backfield. He kills 3 of 1 tactical squad, my doomstalkers kill the shieldtermi and 2 lascas (I forgot the hole game about the second weapon) my Warriors on the left kill 1 assault marine (with 20 shots....) my lord charges into the 7 man squad my VD into the Rider squad wich missed the charge.
My lord kills 5 of the squad (that went well! :-) ) my VD kill all 3 riders (one where already on 1 wound cause of his powers)

He shots my lord with his lascas cause I didn’t thought about he could just walk out of combat like a filthy dog.... clever boy... dumb me!
He charges the 20 warriors with his riders and ragnar. The 15 warrior get charged by his assault marines and 1 of the characters.
I do overwatch with my doomstalkers and the Warriors. No hits with the warriors, 5 hits with the doomstalker but just 1 ****** wound! This wound did 6 damage.:-)
I lose the hole 15 warriors. On the other side I lose 16 warriors to the riders. 14 stand up again. (Now there is a rule question, where to set the warriors up again after Reanimation? We both thought just in coherency but I don’t know if this is right) so I placed them out of ragnars range.

Turn 3
It seems pretty lost but I try my best!
The VD moves to the riders my warriors move out of combat. My doomstalker kill the troop assaultmarines. Just the character is left alive. My VD kill 2 riders and leave 1 with 1 wound.

His turn. Ragnar ran to my doomstalker. And the character does that too. The rider dies to the VD. Ragnar dies to overwatch of my doomstalker. The character killed my technomacer. And rearrange into both doomstalker (again a mistake....)

Turn 4 my VD kill his character in CC.....
He kills 1 doomstalker with 2 lascas (like realy man.....)


Nothing more to say. I did it horrible....
Pros:
Doomstalker are fun and more consistent then I thought
The VD is Slow but, but damn he is good at killing elite stuff!
My overlord performed well in CC

Contra:
I need something to get out of CC and shoot
My Save roles are like crazy bad
15 warriors are not that taff

I am going to do many things different! First of all my missions, second my positioning, third a few things in the List.
Next time I play against Orcs! I will write another List and will give another feedback!

So recently, at 2k points, I've taken to running a royal warden with viel of darkness and the re-roll charge for core units WL trait in place of a second chronomancer. Being able to fall back and shoot with the warriors is really handy I have to say - especially against orks if you bait them into charging outside of their meks invun range

Here's the list if you're interested, I feel something like this could be easily adapted to 1.5k points games



In terms of secondaries, since the change to While we stand I really like it for big warrior blobs when combined with a bunch of RP shenanigans. Otherwise attrition is often a good pick, as well as purge the vermin (which IMO is an easy 10 vp if you're fielding armies with a large board presence).

First of all, thank you for the report! It sounds like with a little bit of luck and clever positioning it could have went the other way. Did you play with protocols? This would have allowed you to shoot after falling back. Another alternative would be to use the veil of darkness on one of your characters, to redeploy one of your warrior units. Although that is of limited use sometimes, when she/he boxes you into your deployment zone.
To make the warriors more durable there is only the chronomancer to give them a 5++, but that would mean another character, so you´d have to get rid of the technomancer. Or use a reanimator, but that is very vulnerable to things like lascannons as well.
What would you yourself change about the list?

So, how are we feeling about Death Guard now that everything is out there?

Besides Morty, who is absolutly busted and I'm not sure what to do, I think we still match up pretty well. Reapers don't care about the new DR, and they have no ObSec manipulation in their army.

That being said, now that Damage spillover is a strat, people need to watch out out for this. A unit of Blightlords or Deathshroud can easily wipe out a 20 man blob with the spillover.

Damage spillover strata?
Like mortal wound going frol one model to an other?
Ow sjiit

Damage spillover as in my weapon does 3 Damage, it will kill 3 Warriors with a single blow.

 AduroT wrote:
Damage spillover as in my weapon does 3 Damage, it will kill 3 Warriors with a single blow.

This is a big factor in why i think DG currently match up pretty well against our warrior spam builds. Couple this with a mortarions anvil plague company to stop our warriors from firing overwatch on top of preventing re-rolls from the SK and I think our best troop choice is very effectively neutered.

I mean its still very early days and time will show us what sort of premier builds come out of their new codex, but at first glance I dont particularly like the matchup.

Where i can see DG struggling is against those fast canoptek obsec armies that spam things like scarabs/wraiths/skorpheks. DG are still a very slow army and therefore liable to getting pinned back. If scarabs with a chrono invun weren't already one of our best friends they certainly are now IMO

The spill over damage is great against everybody, not just Necrons. And I would probably be more concerned for my Immortals, as the have a lot less wounds and therefore a much smaller chance to roll for RP.

I think in general we are not hit as hard as other factions by the new book, because we have very few D2 weapons, and those are the worst against Death Guard. All plasma and master crafted power swords are suddenly "worthless" against anything with DR, whereas all vehicle weapons and troop weapons we have are better than before against them. Granted, Skorphekh and the Canoptek units suffer a lot with their D2 weapons.

savemelmac wrote:
The spill over damage is great against everybody, not just Necrons. And I would probably be more concerned for my Immortals, as the have a lot less wounds and therefore a much smaller chance to roll for RP.

I think in general we are not hit as hard as other factions by the new book, because we have very few D2 weapons, and those are the worst against Death Guard. All plasma and master crafted power swords are suddenly "worthless" against anything with DR, whereas all vehicle weapons and troop weapons we have are better than before against them. Granted, Skorphekh and the Canoptek units suffer a lot with their D2 weapons.

Yeah i hear you man and agree for the most part - the nightbringer is still real mean against them and i wouldnt be too surprised to see lokhust heavy destroyers cropping up a little more frequently too, especially if they come down in points. Both the exterminator and destructor guns seem decent for dealing with DG units.

I still think their new codex has a lot of potential to put a dampen on some of the competitive warrior builds we're seeing right now. Dont get me wrong, the gauss reaper is a mean weapon to be taking on a standard troop choice but IMO where warriors are best is in how they synergize with the rest of our units. At first glance, DG have quite a few tricks to stop that synergy from occurring properly.

like i said, we'll have to wait and see what sort of builds people come up with, its gonna be exciting to see how this shapes the meta too eh!

I'd be interested to see what you guys think are our best units for dealing with DG too
.

Ragnar is primaris and therefore should not be able to go in a Pod AFAIK unless you house-ruled it.

Thanks again for that much feedback.

What would you yourself change about the list?

I think I would play something like this:


Less Warriors more counterpunch with the Skorpekh.
I just ordered 2 boxes of Lychguard. These guys would be a hard to counter unit too.

Ragnar is primaris and therefore should not be able to go in a Pod AFAIK unless you house-ruled it.

He played his SW the first time since the new rules came out. (Because of the thing you don’t speak about....)
So we both did not know. But it would not have change the outcome of the Game. Ragnar was more a minion than a threat.

My opinion to the new DG Codex is that it looks really good. In my opinion the nerfed the resilient rule like the nerfed our reanimation.
Mortarion always was a beast on the field, and you always played him with some support to get him where you wanted him.
And without any points for for example Deathshroud we can’t say anything.