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Darsath wrote:
Certainly going to be taking a Phaeron more often now. Being able to give Wraiths and Destroyers +1 to hit is really good. Especially with Rad-Wreathed.

Oooh right! I had forgotten about that previously useless strat...tempting.

Yeah i only bothered with Phaeron before when i had 3+ warrior blobs and another core unit floating around (usually lychguard or tombblades)
It just didnt matter as beyond T1 usually the 2nd MWBD was slapped on a unit that was about dead so really didnt benefit that much, if there even was one in range at all.

Now, a larger bulk of the stuff i wanna use are core.

Now 17 destroyers and 3 lokhust lords can embark on a night scythe

 p5freak wrote:
Now 17 destroyers and 3 lokhust lords can embark on a night scythe

I mean they were never really "embarked" They've always been teleported in. Lol.

 p5freak wrote:
Now 17 destroyers and 3 lokhust lords can embark on a night scythe

If you really want to risk that many points for no real tactical advantage. *shrug*

technically speaking theyre not in the scythe at all. That was an 8th edition thing to make it a 'normal' transport, it used to only deploy from reserves

Can you even fit that many 50mm bases around a transport?

Theres no need to.
You dont need to disembark everything at once before they move, theyre not all 1 unit.

Really glad to see they're expanding CORE to more Necron models, what a nice surprise!

Really Bummed not to see Scarabs get it. It anything they're as common, or more common than Warriors.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
technically speaking theyre not in the scythe at all. That was an 8th edition thing to make it a 'normal' transport, it used to only deploy from reserves

Ackshually, it started out as a transport, then went to teleporting in 8th and went back to its transport origins in 9th. Good riddance, the writing on the teleportation rule was awful. Is 20 Destroyers too much? Yeah, it feels a little much, it should probably be 6 Destroyers, but I don't see anything wrong with it being able to transport some Destroyers.

 iGuy91 wrote:
This new update opens up tons of stuff. Paging through the dex quickly.

This is like a lovely little christmas gift.

Something interesting that was pointed out on FB group. Most of this applies to dynasty units. So triarch praetorians gain very, very little from the change. Disruption field stratagem for +1S is one of the few things they gained from core.

Wahapedia already got updated, I wonder if the GW app has been updated yet.

tneva82 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
This new update opens up tons of stuff. Paging through the dex quickly.

This is like a lovely little christmas gift.

Something interesting that was pointed out on FB group. Most of this applies to dynasty units. So triarch praetorians gain very, very little from the change. Disruption field stratagem for +1S is one of the few things they gained from core.

Szeras can heal and improve them. Anrakyr can give them +1 to hit, an extra attack and allow them to re-roll charges. Using those two characters with Praetorians was something I loved in 8th.

Any thoughts on combining the new core changes with The ancient stir COA for a canoptek build?

Wraiths getting +1" from Ancient stir and +1" from relentless march. Would be a quick list.

 Blndmage wrote:
Really Bummed not to see Scarabs get it. It anything they're as common, or more common than Warriors.

If scarabs got it then the whole army would be max scarabs unfortunately.

Scarabs getting core would be kinda bonkers...theyre already good enough to expect a points hyke eventually

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Scarabs getting core would be kinda bonkers...theyre already good enough to expect a points hyke eventually

Nah, they're basically fair. There are plenty of comp builds that don't spam them and they leak VP like a sieve now.

 MannyMcCoconut wrote:
Any thoughts on combining the new core changes with The ancient stir COA for a canoptek build?

Wraiths getting +1" from Ancient stir and +1" from relentless march. Would be a quick list.

Unless you play Ancients Stir as 7" pile in and consolidate then it's trash compared to a 6" pre-game move. The extra 1" helps the pre-game dynasty a lot more I think.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
technically speaking theyre not in the scythe at all. That was an 8th edition thing to make it a 'normal' transport, it used to only deploy from reserves

Ackshually, it started out as a transport, then went to teleporting in 8th and went back to its transport origins in 9th. Good riddance, the writing on the teleportation rule was awful. Is 20 Destroyers too much? Yeah, it feels a little much, it should probably be 6 Destroyers, but I don't see anything wrong with it being able to transport some Destroyers.

"Unlike the armoured carriers employed by other races, the Night Scythe does not have a transport compartment as such. Instead, it deploys its troops by means of a captive wormhole whose far end is anchored on a distant Tomb World."

It has literally never actually held any troops inside of it. It's only a "transport" as far as rules go. So arguing about how many models it can "fit" is pointless.

That update was really really needed and unexpected, I'm back in. Already thought Flayed Ones were good, now I think they might be the best unit in our codex

With the Ilumator able to (on a good roll) get S Destroyer up to T6 and the strat -1 to wound they will be incredibly harder to wipe out.

Im not spending 160 points on a model with random buffs. Plus, he has no inv, which is hilarious for a 160 pts. HQ model. Even a company commander for 35 pts. gets a 5++. I can almost get 5 more destroyers for those 160 points.

 p5freak wrote:
Im not spending 160 points on a model with random buffs. Plus, he has no inv, which is hilarious for a 160 pts. HQ model. Even a company commander for 35 pts. gets a 5++. I can almost get 5 more destroyers for those 160 points.

With the ability to permanently bring 2 big models back each turn I think he has a fine comparison to a Chief Apothecary. 110 pts + 1CP vs 160 pts. Bring 1 model back + healing + FNP aura vs bring 1 model back from 2 units + random buff each turn. Szeras is more durable, has a gun and is a lot scarier in melee. To me being Dynasty agnostic isn't a big deal, but for the people that want to run multi-Dynasty lists he has an additional upside over Technomancers, I do think Technomancers will be more popular though, bringing 2 models back is a bit niche and there is always the Stratagem in case you have a good opportunity once every 3 games.

gibbindefs wrote:
"Unlike the armoured carriers employed by other races, the Night Scythe does not have a transport compartment as such. Instead, it deploys its troops by means of a captive wormhole whose far end is anchored on a distant Tomb World."

It has literally never actually held any troops inside of it. It's only a "transport" as far as rules go. So arguing about how many models it can "fit" is pointless.

It's more a question of how many units it can fit through its Wormhole in a turn, that answer being 6 units of 3 Destroyers and 2 Skorpekh Lords is new. I think some of us are just saying that if you want to run this legally you might want to do it sooner rather than later.

this FAQ is great, but perhaps not as great as it initially seems. Many of the new synergies it allows are not worth it at the end of the day.

Night Scythes / Prismatic Dimensional Breach are a prime example. 18 Skorpekhs and 2 Skorpekh lords in one plane is obviously a terrible idea. The new core units enable Necrons to bring various close combat units in with Scythes, but you could already do that with Lychguard, and nobody was. A min unit of skorpekhs to flip a backfield objective for 35pts less than a min unit of Lychguard is the only improvement here.

Anrakyr: +1 attack is a bigger buff the less attacks you start with. A 6th attack on a Skorpekh is nowhere near as big a deal as doubling attacks of a Novokh Warrior. Plus he's a bit slow.

Szeras: He's much better now that he can res destroyers, but so are normal technomancers. He costs the same as 2 Techs with cloaks, but they are faster, can be in two places at once,
and have access to Arkana.

Both of these guys still nave a niche in mixed dynasty lists though.

The Silent king: His only new target for the reroll to hit buff is Lokhusts, but they don't need it- MWBD is enough. The wound reroll aura will be nice if your Skorpekhs aren't killy enough already. His best buffing is still letting Tesla and Gauss fish for exploding 6's, or 5+rerolled overwatch.

The abilities that really do make use of this change are the basic ones: MWBD, Lords Will, Relentless March, Rites of Reanimation, Adaptive Strategy, and the Veil of Darkness.

I think the best lists will continue to be Eternal Expansionists with Lychguard, Skorpekhs, Wraith, and Scarabs. But there may be extra Overlords and Technomancers thrown in. Veiling MWBD + Extermination Protocols Lokhusts may become a thing, but they still seem a little pricey.


TL,DR: The fanciest uses of the changes to core probably aren't worth it. It's a nice buff for the basic HQs that will boost, but not dramatically alter, the most competitive lists.

yeah im running into the usual issue of i hate the command phase....

Almost everything i can think of utilizing Core falls flat because it happens after the command phase. God i hate the command phase....virtually everything in there needs to be at the end of movement...its so dumb that if an Overlord gets out of a transport he cant MWBD anybody that turn.

Best i can think of is to kinda cheese the flayed ones with the scythe. Scythe flies behind the enemy T2 like 5" away from something and dumps 20 Flayed Ones for 1cp that were in reserves. Guaranteed charge, and also major panic inducing lol. Ideally some skorps in the transport but then they wont see any fighting till T3 and theres a pretty good chance the scythe will blow up before they get out.

Prismatic Dimensional Breach just requires to much investment into something too fragile to rely on. It's minimum 145pts + 1 CP + the CP required to reserve whatever you want to bring out. The more you invest, the more likely your opponent is to try and pop the Scythe turn 1 (or turn 2 if you go 2nd).

Maybe you could put 3 Skorpekhs in reserve along with two units of Cryptothralls that you were reserving anyway to ROD. Total power level is 9 so it's still only 1 CP.
Then turn 2 you can use PDB on the Skorps to flip someones home objective/ assassinate a character/ pick on a shooty unit.
It's a minimal investment and might not attract as much of your opponents attention.

A big part of the problem with PDB is that Necrons don't really need transports, so you have to force a 145pt unit into your list that you don't really want. It might be a nice option to have if Scythes were a common feature of lists to begin with.

For me, the great achievement is to use Rad-Wrathed instead of Eternal Conquerors as dynastic trait.
This allows Wraiths to wound Marines on 2+.

First Attempt at a list with the new changes:

Nihilakh
10CP

No Force Org:

40 - Cryptothralls
105 - Technomancer - Canoptek Cloak, Hypermaterial Ablator

HQ:
90 - Chronomancer - Entropic Lance, Veil of Darkness
110 - Technomancer - Canoptek Cloak, Fail-Safe Overcharger
95 - Overlord - Staff of Light, Hand of the Phaeron [-2CP], Warlord, Thrall of the Silent King

Troops:
85 - Immortals - (5) Gauss
85 - Immortals - (5) Gauss
85 - Immortals - (5) Tesla

Elites:
65 - Flayed Ones
140 - Lychguard - (5) Sword and Shield
210 - Skorpekh Destroyers - (6)

Fast Attack
75 - Scarabs - (5)
75 - Scarabs - (5)
210 - Wraiths - (6) Claws

Heavy Support
170 - Doomsday Ark
180 - Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - (3) Gauss Destructors
180 - Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - (3) Gauss Destructors
2000/2000 pts, 10 CP

Basic Game Plan:
Overlord and Hypermaterial Ablator Technomancer sit back with DDA and LHDs, overlord gives both MWBD (hitting on 2s rerolling ones), and technomancer can rez destroyers and heal DDA, and will give cover to strong backline firepower
Chronomancer is to Veil in Skorpekhs, and give reroll charges
Technomancer with overcharger is to go with Wraiths, strong counter charge or just charge forward, techno can rez the wraiths and is giving +1 attack
Lychguard for durable holding the middle of the board
Immortals are for holding objectives and doing actions
Cryptothralls are for actions, flayed ones can DS and ROD or charge and flip objectives

Nihilakh for ObSec and extra durability on the backline, also strat for shoot and actions (Immortals, LHDs), but could easily do Obsec and pregame move instead
General plan is Purge the Vermin, Banners, + kill secondary by opponent or mission specific. ROD and stranglehold could easily be subbed in if opponent will be charging forward quickly (Drukhari, White Scars, etc). List could be tweaked to make the backfield shooting TTL units.

Concerns: Not enough units, I feel the list is killy and does both secondary and primary well, but trading is very poor as most units are large and expensive. Making the Wraiths and Skorpekhs 2 units of 3 could work, but then won't be as strong for Veil and the overcharger, so I don't think it's worth changing. Also with this list Banners is probably better than ROD, so crypothralls and flayed ones may be dead weight, so maybe a hexmark with gauntlet could sub in for extra shooting. I also originally had a Triarch Stalker instead of the Lychguard, but thought the obj holding would be more worth it than sometimes giving the DDA rerolls.

I don't think you can get many more units than what you've got, you're already very heavily in the MSU department. So many that I don't see why you would need the Nihilakh Stratagem.

I am not sure why Flayed Ones are in if you're not planning on doing Octarius Data.

I feel like Wraiths need MWBD the most, they get 33% more hits where most other units get 25% (yes even Heavy Destroyers only get 25%). Maybe I am starting to think of a different list here but Hand of the Phaeron for 2 units Heavy Destroyers seems like overkill.

Relentless Conqueror Wraith/DDA Spam

DDAs to enable defensive playstyle with expansionist for a bit of repositioning to gain LOS without moving T1, Technomancer and Immortals for raising banners. Fail-safe Overcharger + MWBD + Lord's Will for 1x*5/4*4/3*7/6=1,94x damage multiplier on a unit of Wraiths each turn, you can play defensively and just trade out a unit of obscenely buffed-up Wraiths each turn.

Nihilakh is just a fluff dynasty I think, I think you should try out both and tell us if you prefer Nihilakh. What's your terrain like?

Slipped my mind that Characters can Raise Banners, because of that I agree, Nihilakh probaby isn't better. The defensive buff it provides is minimal anyways. So you can probably do more with the pregame move with this list.

Flayed Ones are there for redundancy, some missions and lists won't be great for banners, (Battle Lines, Scouring) so ROD can be switched to easily. However they won't do as much in a regular match, so you could replace them with say a Hexmark

I feel that Necrons lack consistent Anti-Tank and the overlord ensures the shots are hitting, the wraiths will probably do well with 30 attacks anyways. If the overlord was changed to a CCB it could be flexed to either the wraiths or the LHDs depending on the matchup. Would need to drop something (flayed ones) to fit the switch in.

Your list is definitely moving to a different one haha but I do like it, seems simple and effective.

Wraiths can theoretically put some good damage on T7 vehicles with the Disruption Fields Stratagem on top of Lord's Will, MWBD and Overcharger. Personally, I'm confident in my DDA rolls against T8 units and Wraiths can pull off a few wounds in a pinch.

Another option would be going ham on melee Destroyers with a Lokhust Lord and using MWBD+Plasmacyte on them with the option of Disruption Fields you could get Ophydian Destroyers to S6, with the +2 from the big weapons they can take down a Knight in one fell swoop. -1 to hit in melee is actually pretty cool against CSM now, it's a niche benefit but it's a 40% damage reduction instead of 25%.