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 p5freak wrote:
The leaked photos show 45 for wraith. All of our HQs need a 10% drop. Actually, our entire army needs a 10% drop. Protocols are useless, RP is useless on multi wound models.

I just dont understand why szeras is 160. He has two useless abilities. His buff is random (which is ridiculous for a necron with millions year of experience), he has no inv. A 160 pts. HQ with no inv ?? He dedicated his life to improve necrons, but he didnt improve himself ?

I wouldn't expect too much. Large scale point drops would be a real surprise.
Necrons seems to be Tier 4 atm (see Goonhammer's list) and it appears that winning against armies in the upper bracket is a challenge.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The leaked photos show 45 for wraith. All of our HQs need a 10% drop. Actually, our entire army needs a 10% drop. Protocols are useless, RP is useless on multi wound models.

I just dont understand why szeras is 160. He has two useless abilities. His buff is random (which is ridiculous for a necron with millions year of experience), he has no inv. A 160 pts. HQ with no inv ?? He dedicated his life to improve necrons, but he didnt improve himself ?

I wouldn't expect too much. Large scale point drops would be a real surprise.
Necrons seems to be Tier 4 atm (see Goonhammer's list) and it appears that winning against armies in the upper bracket is a challenge.

If winning is a challenge why wouldn't you expect a large-scale point drop?

 CKO wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The leaked photos show 45 for wraith. All of our HQs need a 10% drop. Actually, our entire army needs a 10% drop. Protocols are useless, RP is useless on multi wound models.

I just dont understand why szeras is 160. He has two useless abilities. His buff is random (which is ridiculous for a necron with millions year of experience), he has no inv. A 160 pts. HQ with no inv ?? He dedicated his life to improve necrons, but he didnt improve himself ?

I wouldn't expect too much. Large scale point drops would be a real surprise.
Necrons seems to be Tier 4 atm (see Goonhammer's list) and it appears that winning against armies in the upper bracket is a challenge.

If winning is a challenge why wouldn't you expect a large-scale point drop?

that would be GW admitting they messed up a 9th book.

That’s pretty cynical.

They “admitted” we should have had core all over the place.

Now that we have core, our book has quite a lot of synergy and some powerful units. Internal balance is good.

Gw admitted we need constant points adjustments and rules tweaks. It’s a whole new world. Thankfully.

They have the luxury of admitting mistakes because now they have the ability to fix mistakes.

Cauthon wrote:
Now that we have core, our book has quite a lot of synergy and some powerful units. Internal balance is good.

That might be the excuse not to do point drops. GW is throwing bones (pun intended)

The Necron Synergies were based on taxing HQ's, and that has not changed.
The biggest boosts were to SK, Anrakyr and the Technomancers.

Chapter approved was already printed when the balance dataslate was released. Books are printed 6-12 months before they are released.

 p5freak wrote:
Chapter approved was already printed when the balance dataslate was released. Books are printed 6-12 months before they are released.

So 6-12 months ago Necrons were doing better in comparison, therefor no big point drops?

12 months ago we were making Top 8s in competitive events, weren’t we?

thats life

If we do not get point changes I want weapon profile changes. I really would like d3 + 3 damage for our weapons, why is a doomsday cannon doing 1 or 2 damage? Upgrade our weapons to the new damage formula of (x) + y would help greatly. Giving us the ability to pick protocols and remove the fluffy character requirement would make the mechanic helpful and it would be a simple fix to protocols.

Cauthon wrote:
That’s pretty cynical.

They “admitted” we should have had core all over the place.

Now that we have core, our book has quite a lot of synergy and some powerful units. Internal balance is good.

Gw admitted we need constant points adjustments and rules tweaks. It’s a whole new world. Thankfully.

They have the luxury of admitting mistakes because now they have the ability to fix mistakes.

Nah. They have found new way to make people buy new models.

 CKO wrote:
If we do not get point changes I want weapon profile changes. I really would like d3 + 3 damage for our weapons, why is a doomsday cannon doing 1 or 2 damage? Upgrade our weapons to the new damage formula of (x) + y would help greatly. Giving us the ability to pick protocols and remove the fluffy character requirement would make the mechanic helpful and it would be a simple fix to protocols.

Forget it. This will not happen until we get a new codex.

Best chance for point changes we have could be:
Deathmarks to sell more combat patrols
Monolith/Vault/Obelisk stuff
Flayed ones

Basically things that did not get played enough

 CKO wrote:
If we do not get point changes I want weapon profile changes. I really would like d3 + 3 damage for our weapons, why is a doomsday cannon doing 1 or 2 damage? Upgrade our weapons to the new damage formula of (x) + y would help greatly. Giving us the ability to pick protocols and remove the fluffy character requirement would make the mechanic helpful and it would be a simple fix to protocols.

This is exactly what Necrons need. I don't think points changes solve the Necrons problems. Most of their problems exist at datasheet level in the core rules of units. Too many random shot, random damage guns. A complete lack of affordable but reliable anti tank (S8+) weaponry. Units that lack survivability and/or simply don't work (reanimator needing LoS for example). Poorly designed and underwhelming at best faction rules (command protocols). A lack of access to damage 2 and 3 weapons.

Yes some units are definitely overcoated (personally I think the C'Tan are or certainly the nightbringer is). However I just think there are more fundamental issues with the army.

Especially since all the new hotness coming out is apparently packed to the gills with D3+3 or D3+6 or D6+3 now for some reason.

Our strongest gun is 3D3 and comes on a model that isnt that hard to get rid of. Hell even our relic arrow isnt as strong as some of the crap coming up and its a 1shot RELIC weapon. Never understood why our Doom weapons arent D3+3 at the minimum, especially since that was right at the beginning of their kick to do such a change.

Every time i play necrons if im facing bodies i dont really struggle, its mass higher toughness (higher than 5) that give me problems because its really difficult to field stuff that wounds AND pens their armor for 15+ models with 3+ wounds.
I can face a numbers marine army and be relatively fine but if they start spamming dreads i pretty much only have a chance if i had a ctan around because nothing else can hurt them reliably enough.

Everything can be fixed by point changes.

A Weapon is too weak? just field more.

If Immortals were 15 points, you could just get a battalion with 60 Immortals and be fine.

Lokhust Destroyers at 40 would also see 3 units in an average army.

Edit: not saying its gonna happen

Depends.

Its entirely possible that a unit with meh weapons becomes so cheap to compensate that their durability suddenly becomes the problem and theres no happy medium between the two.
Thats kinda why the Squigbuggy for orks got overhauled rather than tweaked. Its old incarnation was so disgustingly bad that either it was dead weight for its cost or obscenely durable for its cost with no real in-between.

I dont think anything Necrons have is in that category though imo.

Honestly i do not think you can fix everything with points drops because you are also limited in how many you can take by other means, whether by unit specific limitations (e.g. you can only field 1 of certain HQ types) or by detachment limitations. I mean to give a daft example, suppose the reanimator was dropped to 0 points. It is still an elites choice and so you can only take as many as your detachment allows and in taking up that elite slot you are forgoing taking another type of elite. I was tempted, when anticipating this point, to say i don't think you could give reanimators away even if they cost 0 points they would still be hard to justify in a list but i suspect that isn't true but being 0 points and having 2 or 3 or whatever of them does not solve the issue that it is just too easy to kill. A 4++ save like the doomstalker and/or removing the need for LoS would fix that in my opinion but that is not a points change it is a datasheet change. They have done datasheet changes in the balance dataslate when they added the core keyword to a bunch of units so they absolutely could fix these things but they simply haven't.

If Reanimators were 0 points Id pay 3 CP to get another Vanguard or Battalion.

Reanimators are like Necron Warriors (which costs 13)

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
thats life

This is the merit of a latter birth.

tneva82 wrote:

Cauthon wrote:
That’s pretty cynical.

They “admitted” we should have had core all over the place.

Now that we have core, our book has quite a lot of synergy and some powerful units. Internal balance is good.

Gw admitted we need constant points adjustments and rules tweaks. It’s a whole new world. Thankfully.

They have the luxury of admitting mistakes because now they have the ability to fix mistakes.

Nah. They have found new way to make people buy new models.

What?? Are you bitter that they are going to keep fixing their broken rules because maybe you’d have to buy a new unit when it becomes playable?

If they make you want to buy more models...you win??

You could just not...

What??

I judge a codex on the assumption that I can afford any unit 3 times.

My guess is the buffing of weaker units will come with nerfs for the good ones. Like last time

I didnt know we have any good units that need nerfing. Maybe wraith.

 p5freak wrote:
I didnt know we have any good units that need nerfing. Maybe wraith.

Not even Wraiths.
They already lost their 3++ inv. save.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
I didnt know we have any good units that need nerfing. Maybe wraith.

Not even Wraiths.
They already lost their 3++ inv. save.

but they were 45 points with 3++ or not?

Wraiths have WS 4 half of their attacks miss, good unit but nothing to be afraid of or raise their point value.

I have 18 Wraiths built and painted, if those leaks are true, they'll just simply continue to collect dust. They're overpriced as-is.

But theyre core now! Surely that gave them an edge to justify a nerf!

*cough*

The core change did surprisingly little imo. To the entire codex not just wraiths.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The core change did surprisingly little imo. To the entire codex not just wraiths.

Did not surprise me at all!

I got laughed at for saying its about a 1% boost.

I kept saying, the buffing units are very expensive compared to just getting more models on the table.

Anrakyr and Technomancers got buffed, the rest stayed the same.

With the core upgrades we got more fun. Not more better. My metta thought that day of.

More units got synergy to make them playable. Doesn’t fix our weaker mechanics such as protocols and reanimation.

We were never going to jump up a tier, was quality of life.

The points drops will help but really we should be hoping for a supplement. Would be easy to fix some things that cannot be fixed with a points drop.

Crusher stampede is giving me a half chub. Gw just slapped on two of the biggest buffs in the game of -1dmg and 5++ across the board. Massive game changer. Well not the biggest buffs (-1 to wound) but very substantial.

Core is good, points drops will be good, a supplement is going to be our game changer.

In the meantime we get to git good with our uphill battles.

Honestly not having to wait 5+ years for a new book has me optimistic about our current power level. Things will get fixed. Hopefully. Reasonable to expect imo.