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 Type40 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
It is a bit funny and sad that the first named Harlequin character models can't be used by Harlequins.

RIGHT XD... I am a big Harlie fan,,, I was super disappointed XD.

Want new models ? Join IOM scrubs

On topic.. I really don't expect much of anything from GW..
I have accumulated enough metal aspects now through painstaking ebay buys. However I'm not going to buy any more of the Phoenix lords even in metal. I have a magun ra coz he was dirt cheap and I like him. But the others are just so ugly...

That said, I would LOVE new swooping hawks above anything because that's the one kit I cant commit to in metal due to the wings and I have vowed not to buy a single fine-cast thing again.. I had to make a ajanky gakky looking GS cable and graft it to the model to conenct illics rifle to his back-back coz the fail-cast model has a gap once you glue it together..

I do really like the FW range stuff. Got a couple wraith seers, and got a squad of shadow specters which were by far my favourite units of 8th edition.

GW needs to take a leaf out of Artels book on how to make good aspect sculpt.

 Type40 wrote:
Hoping for a harlie named character.
Who doesn't work for SOB lol

I too wish the next harlie named character doesnt arbitrarily inflate our SOB characters point cost into unusability.

When you put Jain Zar next to all the other 24 year old Phoenix Lords, they look embarrasingly bad.
They are conpletely out of proportion and don't fit in at all with the other Eldar models.

Honestly I'm surprised GW is still selling them.

 dan2026 wrote:
When you put Jain Zar next to all the other 24 year old Phoenix Lords, they look embarrasingly bad.
They are conpletely out of proportion and don't fit in at all with the other Eldar models.

Honestly I'm surprised GW is still selling them.

They were nice sculpts for their time, but yes they are in dire need of an update. Speaking of things that are dire...

Given that Dire Avengers already have a fabulous plastic kit, they should have an updated Asurmen to accompany them.

 dan2026 wrote:
When you put Jain Zar next to all the other 24 year old Phoenix Lords, they look embarrasingly bad.
They are conpletely out of proportion and don't fit in at all with the other Eldar models.

Honestly I'm surprised GW is still selling them.

Probably also has to do with the pricing...
2 banshee boxes are afterall a full SC box.

SamusDrake wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
When you put Jain Zar next to all the other 24 year old Phoenix Lords, they look embarrasingly bad.
They are conpletely out of proportion and don't fit in at all with the other Eldar models.

Honestly I'm surprised GW is still selling them.

They were nice sculpts for their time, but yes they are in dire need of an update. Speaking of things that are dire...

Given that Dire Avengers already have a fabulous plastic kit, they should have an updated Asurmen to accompany them.

Their time was over two decages ago lol.
They have to be the oldest models GW is still selling. Or very close to it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
When you put Jain Zar next to all the other 24 year old Phoenix Lords, they look embarrasingly bad.
They are conpletely out of proportion and don't fit in at all with the other Eldar models.

Honestly I'm surprised GW is still selling them.

Probably also has to do with the pricing...
2 banshee boxes are afterall a full SC box.

I bought two banshee boxes recently.
Gorgeous models, but yeah even with 20% off, no man could ever call them cheap.

 dan2026 wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
I guess my question would be... why update them? The models *still* look good... my personal misgivings to the warp spiders aside.

The vehicles look good, the wraith units look good. I can’t think of anything that looks bad.

They’re a well designed army, they have a handful of unique units in each FOC slot... they feel pretty complete to me.

Well I mean the big one is the fact that they are all made of Finecast resin now.
That in of itself is a problem.

And even if they were still in metal, I'd bet most people would want plastic kits, including me.
As they are much easier to build and paint.

So you're reasoning for wanting perfectly good sculpts scrapped (besides being in FineCast) is pandering to the unskilled?

ccs wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
I guess my question would be... why update them? The models *still* look good... my personal misgivings to the warp spiders aside.

The vehicles look good, the wraith units look good. I can’t think of anything that looks bad.

They’re a well designed army, they have a handful of unique units in each FOC slot... they feel pretty complete to me.

Well I mean the big one is the fact that they are all made of Finecast resin now.
That in of itself is a problem.

And even if they were still in metal, I'd bet most people would want plastic kits, including me.
As they are much easier to build and paint.

So you're reasoning for wanting perfectly good sculpts scrapped (besides being in FineCast) is pandering to the unskilled?

That is a really horrible and ignorant thing to say.

SamusDrake wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
When you put Jain Zar next to all the other 24 year old Phoenix Lords, they look embarrasingly bad.
They are conpletely out of proportion and don't fit in at all with the other Eldar models.

Honestly I'm surprised GW is still selling them.

They were nice sculpts for their time, but yes they are in dire need of an update. Speaking of things that are dire...

Given that Dire Avengers already have a fabulous plastic kit, they should have an updated Asurmen to accompany them.

DA kit is hardly fabulous. It is full of missing detail, like on the top of the helmet crests; something the 24yo Asurmen has. The kit is badly in need of an update as it was one of those kits made during when GW was just getting the hang of CAD and it shows.

A lot of the old plastics are showing their age. Just the sprue layout could be a lot tighter, and the mold lines and soft detail stand out compared to a modern kit.

With the way they pack spues full of stuff these days, they could fit the WS/Falcon/NS/FP all into one box without issue. Or add all the bits for the assault guardians into the kit with the defenders.

The pilots of the older stuff are also in the older outfits, and don’t match the modern range. Not a huge deal, but it’s there.

After having to carve my own Fire Dragons out of the blob of resin, and straighten/fix the rifles on my rangers multiple times, I’ve sworn off finecast. Admittedly, that was early days, and I hear it’s gotten better. But the material does not suit the nature of Eldar models. I’m waiting for plastic, and picked up a box of banshees, even at the ludicrous price, to let GW know they would sell. And I really wanted them (even if they kinda suck)

The range is visually excellent, but very old. It does not need a revamp, just a refresh using modern techniques and in plastic.

Ideally, the range gets a total refresh, which is something we may or may not see based on Necrons and Sisters with their range revamp.

I would love the grav tanks to be retooled to include their missing options and upgrades that are scattered on several sprues to make it easier for people who don't have massive collections already.

Personally, as long as they improve the writing surrounding Ynnari both for the rules and fluff, or just remove them completely, I'd be happy enough as long as we got some updated aspect warriors,rangers and vypers.

I do think that GW need to really think about how they market Eldar going forward, in theory, Blood of the Phoenix was a great start for a Ynnari army box but failed badly from poor unit choices and ludicrous pricing. They'll really have to work on making future boxes and individual units affordable, otherwise, those 1994 Warp Spiders I have will be be perfectly fine.

 Grimtuff wrote:


DA kit is hardly fabulous. It is full of missing detail, like on the top of the helmet crests; something the 24yo Asurmen has. The kit is badly in need of an update as it was one of those kits made during when GW was just getting the hang of CAD and it shows.

Have to hand it to you as that is a fair observation; indeed, they do not have the bristle heads and that is on the GW site's images.

I've actually held the finished models and they certainly did not lack that certain detail. I can only assume my friend had done some sculpting before hand.

Crikey, now you mention it...the Exarch's eyes on the website don't seem to match up either?

It is one of things that put me off buying any when they came out (plus the fact they don't look distinct enough from Guardians to me, whist the metal ones did). Didn't fancy having the resculpt the hair on all of them.

I've always considered Craftworld Eldar to be one of the key 40k factions.
I'm not sure why to be honest. Maybe it was because they were one of the playable factions in the first Dawn of War.

But their lack of model support for GW is nothing short of baffling.
Now Sisters have had their redo, I'd say they must be the most undersupported faction in the game.

I see Forgeworld has now dropped support for Eldar Corsairs as well.

I really don't understand what GWs play is here.

 Grimtuff wrote:
It is one of things that put me off buying any when they came out (plus the fact they don't look distinct enough from Guardians to me, whist the metal ones did). Didn't fancy having the resculpt the hair on all of them.

I personally would not have a problem whipping out some milliput and a cocktail stick....but dammit its staring me right in the face now!

SamusDrake wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

DA kit is hardly fabulous. It is full of missing detail, like on the top of the helmet crests; something the 24yo Asurmen has. The kit is badly in need of an update as it was one of those kits made during when GW was just getting the hang of CAD and it shows.

Have to hand it to you as that is a fair observation; indeed, they do not have the bristle heads and that is on the GW site's images.
I've actually held the finished models and they certainly did not lack that certain detail. I can only assume my friend had done some sculpting before hand.
Crikey, now you mention it...the Exarch's eyes on the website don't seem to match up either?

Umm... ok, something's gone wonky here. I have an (admittedly older, probably 5th ed) squad of plastic Dire Avengers and they most definitely have the head bristles. It sounds to me like your friend has the proper models.
The version of the sprues showing on the GW page is what I have, as well.
What Grimtuff may have originally meant, was the crest not being as detailed as the Asurmen model's, e.g. the bristles aren't as well defined - which is a valid criticism.

 Nevelon wrote:

.... I’ve sworn off finecast. Admittedly, that was early days, and I hear it’s gotten better.

Im afraid it has not gotten any better at all.

 Super Ready wrote:

Umm... ok, something's gone wonky here. I have an (admittedly older, probably 5th ed) squad of plastic Dire Avengers and they most definitely have the head bristles. It sounds to me like your friend has the proper models.
The version of the sprues showing on the GW page is what I have, as well.
What Grimtuff may have originally meant, was the crest not being as detailed as the Asurmen model's, e.g. the bristles aren't as well defined - which is a valid criticism.

Definitely the kit on the website.

There was one before those which basically used the guardian sprues, and I think they just slapped a metal avenger head on it. That was going waaaaay back though.

 Argive wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

.... I’ve sworn off finecast. Admittedly, that was early days, and I hear it’s gotten better.

Im afraid it has not gotten any better at all.

Finecast would be fine if GW would design their models for finecast; while they've ironed out some of the quality issues it's still too brittle for Eldar minis designed in metal. Big chunky finecast models without skinny bits (any Space Marine, for instance) tend to work fine.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

.... I’ve sworn off finecast. Admittedly, that was early days, and I hear it’s gotten better.

Im afraid it has not gotten any better at all.

Finecast would be fine if GW would design their models for finecast; while they've ironed out some of the quality issues it's still too brittle for Eldar minis designed in metal. Big chunky finecast models without skinny bits (any Space Marine, for instance) tend to work fine.

Thats quite possible. I dont mind the the FW resin although its not perfect it seems like miles better than failcast. Even small infantry sized things like shadow spectres with complex ribbons dont look gakky.
All I know it just doesn't work despite giving it opportunity after opportunity.. At this stage I wouldn't risk my hard earned ££ on any more failcast of any ilk.

Out of curiosity
Are there any kits designed for fine-cast that are not straight ports from metals ?

I recently got a second hand metal NIB emperors champion for a painting project although marine, I still wouldn't feel confident buying a new fine-cast one.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I’d say that if they aren’t being refreshed, they probably sell fine as-is? While I’m not a fan of finecast, I don’t feel there’s anything fundamentally wrong with the models.

For me, they’ve stood the test of time. There isn’t something that needs fixing, in my opinion.

I think I can agree with this, for the most part. Even though the materials are dated several of the models are still -fine- sculpts, you just have to put up with inferior quality.

The wave serpent, falcon, prism, and vyper are all fine too, they have aged very well.

Jetbikes are ok, but really could do with a resculpt. They're very basic and do look very bland and dated.

Guardians are in the same boat. The models are just embarassingly bland.

So at worst, I would hope for new guardians / basic infantry options, and new jetbikes.

The biggest issue with Eldar are the rules. They're all pretty much terrible. And the problem there is that GW only ever seems to put effort into a rules set, for new models/units that they are trying to sell. Which I think is why people are pushing for all eldar units to get updated to plastic - maybe then the phoenix lords and aspects will no longer be among the worst units in the game.

Niiru wrote:
Jetbikes are ok, but really could do with a resculpt. They're very basic and do look very bland and dated.

Jetbikes had a resculpt during what, 7th edition? It's why we have plastic Warlock/Farseer on Jetbike options.

The real mystery is why Shining Spears didn't get redone at the same time...

 Dysartes wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Jetbikes are ok, but really could do with a resculpt. They're very basic and do look very bland and dated.

Jetbikes had a resculpt during what, 7th edition? It's why we have plastic Warlock/Farseer on Jetbike options.

The real mystery is why Shining Spears didn't get redone at the same time...

I recall the HQ jetbike options but didn't think the normal jetbike squad got updates, or shining spears. But I may be wrong. Though the bikes still look pretty bland compared to reavers / skyweavers.

Niiru wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Jetbikes are ok, but really could do with a resculpt. They're very basic and do look very bland and dated.

Jetbikes had a resculpt during what, 7th edition? It's why we have plastic Warlock/Farseer on Jetbike options.

The real mystery is why Shining Spears didn't get redone at the same time...

I recall the HQ jetbike options but didn't think the normal jetbike squad got updates, or shining spears. But I may be wrong. Though the bikes still look pretty bland compared to reavers / skyweavers.

Look at the Shining Spears, and compare the bike/rider to the Windriders - the latter are on the newer jetbikes, while the former still use the original plastic Jetbike as a base.

That's why them not getting an upgrade at the same time made little sense - you've managed to end up in a situation where both plastic bikes are in production for the entire duration of 8th, as well as however much of 7th the new bike was around for.

You'd think they'd at least do a plastic Avatar, so they could sell a pricey big monster kit.
I know there is the Forgeworld one, but still.

The jetbikes are a bizarre thing in that, the model was essentially done and ready for sale in 2010, but wasn't actually sold until 2015. For 5 years they sat on it and didn't release it and by the time it did release, the kit already looked a little dated.

Niiru wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Jetbikes are ok, but really could do with a resculpt. They're very basic and do look very bland and dated.

Jetbikes had a resculpt during what, 7th edition? It's why we have plastic Warlock/Farseer on Jetbike options.

The real mystery is why Shining Spears didn't get redone at the same time...

I recall the HQ jetbike options but didn't think the normal jetbike squad got updates, or shining spears. But I may be wrong. Though the bikes still look pretty bland compared to reavers / skyweavers.

Eldar bikes are significantly newer than reavers - 7th I think vs 5th. That said IIRC the initial design was done about the same time - Jes Goodwin was showing 3–up prototypes of the Eldar bikes at Games Day even before the reavers came out, it’s just other things kept getting prioritised (e.g. I recall Jes saying in an interview at one point he had the choice of wraithguard or bikes and he chose the former as they were still in metal while the bikes were at least plastic, albeit from 2nd and with the old style of guardian armour).

 dan2026 wrote:
You'd think they'd at least do a plastic Avatar, so they could sell a pricey big monster kit.
I know there is the Forgeworld one, but still.

This is one update that would be of great benefit to Games Workshop; a single plastic kit with the option of either a sword or a spear. Similar to the Sylvaneth Treelord.

If CWE got a fundamental re-write, and nu-Avatar+loads of foot-Aspect Warriors became viable, dare I say competitive, then I'd be in again.

But I just feel you're going to be offered to replace those fire dragons you bought in 1998 with models that are slightly taller, cost about £40 for a box of 5, and still fundamentally don't work. See all Striking Scorpions and probably Swooping Hawks.

Reapers, Spears and Spiders have at least been good over the last 5 years (Spiders subsequently not so much). But this in turn means anyone playing Eldar in recent history has probably bitten the bullet and bought them.

I lost faith in GW when dark elder and cwe became allies.
Srsly... head splitting brontodung right there.
That and taudar.
Of course cwe needs new models but redoing the range also requires consistent and coherent vision.
I think that GW thinks that no matter how poorly they design space marine units and wreck the established understanding of what it means, they Will still be able to sell some marines. For instance that restartes go cart.
I think that GW knows that this is not the case with cwe. GW can mess this up so badly that nobody over 12 will want to buy them unless they like the models only and can forget their horrendous conceptualization or they want to spam scatter laser bikes or whatever