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 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Chaplain Dread was OP by accident and OOP when it hit that status. Utterly poor example.

Don’t @ me with I’vE aLwAyS lOvEd ThE fLuFf oF ChApLaIn DrEaDs... Post was not callous in the slightest, and my post went on to list other categories of stuff that’s gone. But you cherry pick away, sigh.

I actually don't really give a damn about the Chaplain Dread.

I'm more interested in people dismissing this as no big deal.

And it's not cherry picking. It's brevity.

"Who uses sabre platforms anyway, amiriteguys?"

Probably the people who bought them, so who are you to dismiss them?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Chaplain Dread was OP by accident and OOP when it hit that status. Utterly poor example.

Don’t @ me with I’vE aLwAyS lOvEd ThE fLuFf oF ChApLaIn DrEaDs... Post was not callous in the slightest, and my post went on to list other categories of stuff that’s gone. But you cherry pick away, sigh.

I actually don't really give a damn about the Chaplain Dread.

I'm more interested in people dismissing this as no big deal.

And it's not cherry picking. It's brevity.

"Who uses sabre platforms anyway, amiriteguys?"

Probably the people who bought them, so who are you to dismiss them?

This sums it up for me. The old Kreig and Heretics lists were the golden age of FW for me. Alot of people put alot of time and effort and cold hard cash into these armies to have them dismissed out of hand with barely an acknowledgement whilst we get yet another Primaris Data sheet for Grey Reivers with beards...

 Kinetochore wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Chaplain Dread was OP by accident and OOP when it hit that status. Utterly poor example.

Don’t @ me with I’vE aLwAyS lOvEd ThE fLuFf oF ChApLaIn DrEaDs... Post was not callous in the slightest, and my post went on to list other categories of stuff that’s gone. But you cherry pick away, sigh.

I actually don't really give a damn about the Chaplain Dread.

I'm more interested in people dismissing this as no big deal.

And it's not cherry picking. It's brevity.

"Who uses sabre platforms anyway, amiriteguys?"

Probably the people who bought them, so who are you to dismiss them?

This sums it up for me. The old Kreig and Heretics lists were the golden age of FW for me. Alot of people put alot of time and effort and cold hard cash into these armies to have them dismissed out of hand with barely an acknowledgement whilst we get yet another Primaris Data sheet for Grey Reivers with beards...

It really is a slap in the face when it really doesn't cost them anything to include rules for them that take up a few pages while they trip over themselves to provide bizarrely specific wargear loadouts for the next lieutenant or Captain variant. It smacks of the Kirby-Era "buy what we make" rather than "make what people want to buy" philosophy.

Yep, it's really something strange to me, since at one point special characters were the only basically static characters, while now all over the place there are artificial limitations because GW doesn't want people weapon swapping a plasma pistol or power axe or whatever. Like, sure, never make rules without a model again, but doesn't kitbashing mean people are using more of their kits?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Yep, it's really something strange to me, since at one point special characters were the only basically static characters, while now all over the place there are artificial limitations because GW doesn't want people weapon swapping a plasma pistol or power axe or whatever. Like, sure, never make rules without a model again, but doesn't kitbashing mean people are using more of their kits?

I think part of it is with their new focus on monopose clampack kits being the norm, usually with limited options, they treat the hobby aspect of kitbashing and conversions with kiddy gloves as if that's something that beginners can't or won't do. They act as if it's the exception and thus don't want to or ignore the fact that they likely can make more money by incentizing kitbashing. You can kinda see that mentality with the Easy-To-Build kits and the way they marketed contrast paints as an "finish painting models fast and easy" to newcomers rather than a paint line that supplements their existing range.

A cynical way of reading why they're doing this is that they're trying to direct the players to how they think the game should be played/models should be bought.

 Kinetochore wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Chaplain Dread was OP by accident and OOP when it hit that status. Utterly poor example.

Don’t @ me with I’vE aLwAyS lOvEd ThE fLuFf oF ChApLaIn DrEaDs... Post was not callous in the slightest, and my post went on to list other categories of stuff that’s gone. But you cherry pick away, sigh.

I actually don't really give a damn about the Chaplain Dread.

I'm more interested in people dismissing this as no big deal.

And it's not cherry picking. It's brevity.

"Who uses sabre platforms anyway, amiriteguys?"

Probably the people who bought them, so who are you to dismiss them?

This sums it up for me. The old Kreig and Heretics lists were the golden age of FW for me. Alot of people put alot of time and effort and cold hard cash into these armies to have them dismissed out of hand with barely an acknowledgement whilst we get yet another Primaris Data sheet for Grey Reivers with beards...

Absolutely.
Being one of these people I cannot find a better way to put it.

Hah I love this bizarro world where I’m the bad guy and everyone has Sabre Platforms. That’s not gloating, disgraceful, callous... whatever adjective you may try and apply. It’s a ridiculous assertion that the removal of that unit affects vast swathes of the player base. It does not. And for all we know it will have Legends rules so you don’t even have to buy a book. Perspective is useful, though not if trying to frame me as the villain I guess, HBMC.

Seriously, people. You know GW only makes rules for stuff it sells now. It isn’t news, it shouldn’t be a shock, sure, be disappointed but direct it at GW. Not at a guy who says “but many of you don’t even play those units...”

If GW had removed units the majority of the world bought and use then HBMC might have a point. As it is, he doesn’t. More people have spent ten years going “I’m definitely going to get a DKoK army” than have actually bought one. I know it’s a popular niche force and it’s sad for anyone whose units have been moved to Legends. They are still playable... they aren’t gone. There are hardly any tournaments as the world is screwed. Again, perspective.

And honestly, call me what you like... all five people who own Sabre Platforms have a small right to be upset but come on. The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Hah I love this bizarro world where I’m the bad guy and everyone has Sabre Platforms. That’s not gloating, disgraceful, callous... whatever adjective you may try and apply. It’s a ridiculous assertion that the removal of that unit affects vast swathes of the player base. It does not. And for all we know it will have Legends rules so you don’t even have to buy a book. Perspective is useful, though not if trying to frame me as the villain I guess, HBMC.

Seriously, people. You know GW only makes rules for stuff it sells now. It isn’t news, it shouldn’t be a shock, sure, be disappointed but direct it at GW. Not at a guy who says “but many of you don’t even play those units...”

If GW had removed units the majority of the world bought and use then HBMC might have a point. As it is, he doesn’t. More people have spent ten years going “I’m definitely going to get a DKoK army” than have actually bought one. I know it’s a popular niche force and it’s sad for anyone whose units have been moved to Legends. They are still playable... they aren’t gone. There are hardly any tournaments as the world is screwed. Again, perspective.

And honestly, call me what you like... all five people who own Sabre Platforms have a small right to be upset but come on. The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

Whilest uncalled for, the underlined part is just frankly untrue, most organised events even before Covid allready banned Legends, and that did bleed over into more casual settings at FLGS not to mention that any balance update that GW paywalls but burdens upon all players via CA, turns these even into a worse state off disconect so by 1 edition or 2 edition later these units, might aswell not exist anymore.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Hah I love this bizarro world where I’m the bad guy and everyone has Sabre Platforms. That’s not gloating, disgraceful, callous... whatever adjective you may try and apply. It’s a ridiculous assertion that the removal of that unit affects vast swathes of the player base. It does not. And for all we know it will have Legends rules so you don’t even have to buy a book. Perspective is useful, though not if trying to frame me as the villain I guess, HBMC.

Seriously, people. You know GW only makes rules for stuff it sells now. It isn’t news, it shouldn’t be a shock, sure, be disappointed but direct it at GW. Not at a guy who says “but many of you don’t even play those units...”

If GW had removed units the majority of the world bought and use then HBMC might have a point. As it is, he doesn’t. More people have spent ten years going “I’m definitely going to get a DKoK army” than have actually bought one. I know it’s a popular niche force and it’s sad for anyone whose units have been moved to Legends. They are still playable... they aren’t gone. There are hardly any tournaments as the world is screwed. Again, perspective.

And honestly, call me what you like... all five people who own Sabre Platforms have a small right to be upset but come on. The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

You realize legends rules are fairly irrelevant　right? You basically get to see　how things were when unit was still actually usable.

In other　news　50 euros for the book

$65 U.S. + $10 shipping if you don't blow $120 in one go to get free shipping. The description says 222 datasheets vs the preview article's claim of 189. One of the two are apparently counting wrong.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Until we see the Legends entry, I feel it's a bit early to say that they don't do what you want

Is Legends stuff allowed at events now? Because I already know that in home games I can do whatever I want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
And honestly, call me what you like... all five people who own Sabre Platforms have a small right to be upset but come on. The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

I have no Sabre platforms. I do have four griffons, though. Maybe the Sabre was just one example, you know.

Plus, as said above, people paid for them, and it's not like they were OP to begin with.

The datasheet count discrepancy is weird - anyone bored enough to count the entries on the previewed ToC?

Krieg owner here.i bought Kiev because I liked the models and rarely if ever used the rules. Were always garbage so I just proxies them as something else. Nothing has changed there although the suicidal vehicles is a nice touch.

But that is my personal opinion, other people can disagree

JohnnyHell wrote:Hah I love this bizarro world where I’m the bad guy and everyone has Sabre Platforms. That’s not gloating, disgraceful, callous... whatever adjective you may try and apply. It’s a ridiculous assertion that the removal of that unit affects vast swathes of the player base. It does not. And for all we know it will have Legends rules so you don’t even have to buy a book. Perspective is useful, though not if trying to frame me as the villain I guess, HBMC.

Seriously, people. You know GW only makes rules for stuff it sells now. It isn’t news, it shouldn’t be a shock, sure, be disappointed but direct it at GW. Not at a guy who says “but many of you don’t even play those units...”

If GW had removed units the majority of the world bought and use then HBMC might have a point. As it is, he doesn’t. More people have spent ten years going “I’m definitely going to get a DKoK army” than have actually bought one. I know it’s a popular niche force and it’s sad for anyone whose units have been moved to Legends. They are still playable... they aren’t gone. There are hardly any tournaments as the world is screwed. Again, perspective.

And honestly, call me what you like... all five people who own Sabre Platforms have a small right to be upset but come on. The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

Anyone who spent money and modeling time on a model, much less an entire army, is perfectly justified to be angry about that model, models, or, I'll point out again, entire fething army being removed as an option from any methods of play.

Dysartes wrote:The datasheet count discrepancy is weird - anyone bored enough to count the entries on the previewed ToC?

I count 222.

 Albertorius wrote:

Is Legends stuff allowed at events now? Because I already know that in home games I can do whatever I want.

TBH, FW stuff has always been a bit random in events. Either they allow it, either they refuse it. I think it will stay the same even after this book.

Previous events allowing full FW use before, I see some of them actually allowing Legends. Because the purpose of many of them isn't for balance or optimized competition anyway : it's to show these gorgeous models on the table.

Sarouan wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Is Legends stuff allowed at events now? Because I already know that in home games I can do whatever I want.

TBH, FW stuff has always been a bit random in events. Either they allow it, either they refuse it. I think it will stay the same even after this book.

Previous events allowing full FW use before, I see some of them actually allowing Legends. Because the purpose of many of them isn't for balance or optimized competition anyway : it's to show these gorgeous models on the table.

Back when Krieg got released, the IG codex allowed you to run everything except some FW vehicles as a regular IG list and have no problems whatsoever, though. And there is some stuff like the Griffon that well, you still can use it as a snub Basilisk or whatever and you'll probably be fine, but some other stuff... well, not so.

And given that now you have super heavies, LoWs, knights and everything else as regular plastic kits... well, "balance" doesn't really plays a part on deciding.

Over here, though, none of the events I've seen allow Legends stuff.

If people really want GW to bring back certain unit datasheets the best way to do that is to get them to start selling those models again. GW follows their "no model, no rule" rather strictly these days and if they are not selling the model anymore then by their definition there is "no model".

 Eldarsif wrote:
If people really want GW to bring back certain unit datasheets the best way to do that is to get them to start selling those models again. GW follows their "no model, no rule" rather strictly these days and if they are not selling the model anymore then by their definition there is "no model".

Strictly unless you are marine.

AUD$110? Oh that's amusing.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Perspective is useful, though not if trying to frame me as the villain I guess, HBMC.

"Lots of stuff that barely any people actually use has gone." "Seriously, who actually fielded Sabre Defense Platforms?"

I'm not misquoting you. This is almost at the "don't care, got mine" level of dismissiveness.

It doesn't matter that you don't care. Someone might, and you're acting as if it ain't no thang. And from the posts that came after mine, and are above this one, I don't think I'm alone here.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Until we see the Legends entry, I feel it's a bit early to say that they don't do what you want

Is Legends stuff allowed at events now? Because I already know that in home games I can do whatever I want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
And honestly, call me what you like... all five people who own Sabre Platforms have a small right to be upset but come on. The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

I have no Sabre platforms. I do have four griffons, though. Maybe the Sabre was just one example, you know.

Plus, as said above, people paid for them, and it's not like they were OP to begin with.

6 sabre platforms, 3 griffons, and a whole army of R&H with more stuff that I can list here...
So yes I feel pretty entitled to be... unsettled.

And don't get me started on Elysians, a whole army of them also bought and without a list to be played.

tneva82 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
If people really want GW to bring back certain unit datasheets the best way to do that is to get them to start selling those models again. GW follows their "no model, no rule" rather strictly these days and if they are not selling the model anymore then by their definition there is "no model".

Strictly unless you are marine.

I'm a Marine player (Iron Hands) and I've lost Chaplain & Mortis dreadnoughts and the Land Raider Prometheus.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Until we see the Legends entry, I feel it's a bit early to say that they don't do what you want

Is Legends stuff allowed at events now? Because I already know that in home games I can do whatever I want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
And honestly, call me what you like... all five people who own Sabre Platforms have a small right to be upset but come on. The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

I have no Sabre platforms. I do have four griffons, though. Maybe the Sabre was just one example, you know.

Plus, as said above, people paid for them, and it's not like they were OP to begin with.

6 sabre platforms, 3 griffons, and a whole army of R&H with more stuff that I can list here...
So yes I feel pretty entitled to be... unsettled.

As said the Sabre is just an example as far as I can say.

And don't get me started on Elysians, a whole army of them also bought and without a list to be played...

beast_gts wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
If people really want GW to bring back certain unit datasheets the best way to do that is to get them to start selling those models again. GW follows their "no model, no rule" rather strictly these days and if they are not selling the model anymore then by their definition there is "no model".

Strictly unless you are marine.

I'm a Marine player (Iron Hands) and I've lost Chaplain & Mortis dreadnoughts and the Land Raider Prometheus.

I didn't say they lose none. But marines are ones who actually have entries that require converting. Others don't have.

Maybe read what i write　before replying next time?

So, we didn’t get unit previews to speak of, there aren’t review copies out in the wild and it doesn’t ship till next Friday?

Pretty frustrating when all the buzz has been about stuff being cut in the first place.

early review/leaks/point values/new rules??

changemod wrote:
So, we didn’t get unit previews to speak of, there aren’t review copies out in the wild and it doesn’t ship till next Friday?

Pretty frustrating when all the buzz has been about stuff being cut in the first place.

Do we know there aren't any review copies? It seems bizarre to try to hype a book with rules for so many different factions with only two articles about DKoK.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

changemod wrote:
So, we didn’t get unit previews to speak of, there aren’t review copies out in the wild and it doesn’t ship till next Friday?

Pretty frustrating when all the buzz has been about stuff being cut in the first place.

Do we know there aren't any review copies? It seems bizarre to try to hype a book with rules for so many different factions with only two articles about DKoK.

Not sure what I expected but the price tag is a put off given I need 6 pages of it. I kind of wish they'd broken it into smaller collections again so you're not paying rulebook prices for a small volume of supplementary units with no prior knowledge.

Dudeface wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

changemod wrote:
So, we didn’t get unit previews to speak of, there aren’t review copies out in the wild and it doesn’t ship till next Friday?

Pretty frustrating when all the buzz has been about stuff being cut in the first place.

Do we know there aren't any review copies? It seems bizarre to try to hype a book with rules for so many different factions with only two articles about DKoK.

Not sure what I expected but the price tag is a put off given I need 6 pages of it. I kind of wish they'd broken it into smaller collections again so you're not paying rulebook prices for a small volume of supplementary units with no prior knowledge.

Ditto. 9 pages will do it for me with my current collection. Some previews or reviews would be nice. I'd hate to spend $65 just to find out gw nerfed all my fw toys into the ground. I really hope they don't, almost every vehicle in my Night Lords is from fw.

I have a ton of forge world stuff across several armies, and aren’t very enthusiastic about this so far.


Of course for me to be genuinely hyped rather than merely pleasantly surprised they’d have to finally do the absolute financial no brainer of printing a few data sheets for the 30k mechanicus units I bought in the safe and comfortable knowledge Cyraxus was coming.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The salty mountains you’re trying to make out of molehills here are ridiculous HBMC.

If GW told you to take a bullet for the Sigmarine statue outside their HQ, would you do it?

The people who invested money into FW's 'premium' products are exactly the type of diehard fans you'd think they would want to keep on side with a throwaway set of rules. What's the ink on that bit of paper compared to the thousands people spend on FW products?

That sums it up pretty well:
I do not care about the rule content or power level thing,
but their attitude to not even release rules at all for these models
annoy me as a long time consumer.