Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Right now the best way to use Morathi is immediately transform turn 1, so were the forms split her monstrous form could stay at the same cost and her aelf form cost (considerably) less. But I imagine there will be rules changes.

There's a lot of nuance in using Morathi effectively and even when transforming Morathi turn 1, the Transformation itself is hugely valuable as it essentially results in an extra 3 to 4 inch move.

I am aware, but that value is offset by the ability of certain army builds to shoot/spell her top of 1, meaning the damage is effective doubled. I figure they largely even out, with snek form perhaps being worth 10-20 pts less on its own.

Yes, against armies that have a reliable ability to damage morathi turn one(which is harder than you might think given she's at least -2 to hit in shooting) it's much more valuable to transform her immediately and slingshot her out, against armies that don't she can land every spell in her arsenal all the way across the board turn one AND often slip under an opponents notice until she takes over the board turn 3ish.

In a Kharadron, Tzeentch, Seraphon meta, her small form is of limited utility, yes. But in a FEC, Khorne, Deepkin meta her small form can potentially be the more useful of the two.

I wouldn't pay more than maybe 380 for the snake form by itself. The lack of flexibility really, really emphasizes just how lackluster her snake form's stats actually are.

Well it's the stats being really good coupled with a unique durability, but the form IS rather straightforward. It is just really good at being straightforward. At any rate, a straight snek form warscroll would obviously not be worth more than the combined one currently costs, nor would the humanoid form be worth nearly as much.

 Overread wrote:
Considering that right now Morathi is 480points on her own where she shifts between the two forms. Where in theory she could remain in her first form for an entire battle; I wonder how GW will split her for the book

Rumour I read is: "DoK are getting the Zainthar Kai temple which has battalions and two warscrolls that let you use both versions of Morathi on the tabletop at the same time".

Dunno how accurate rumour is.

edit: No that's on GW's site.

So the box is the same cost as Teclis. So not another AUD$350 albatross/boondoggle like that Eldar/DE box.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So the box is the same cost as Teclis. So not another AUD$350 albatross/boondoggle like that Eldar/DE box.

Hopefully they burned themselves bad on that box.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So the box is the same cost as Teclis. So not another AUD$350 albatross/boondoggle like that Eldar/DE box.

Hopefully they burned themselves bad on that box.

They definitely won't be burning themselves on THIS box.

I actually think people actually aren't really looking at how ridiculous the value of that box set is. It's got a good selection of very frequently used units including characters you can't get anywhere else for 170USD.

The DoK side is 161 USD WITHOUT the new character. Figure a standard 35$ character sprue and you're looking at it being a discount if you throw the slaanesh half into the garbage.

This combined with Indomitus mean that post Blood of the Pheonix we've seen two of the absolute best value box sets GW has ever done. Circumstantial evidence suggests they learned some kind of lesson from it.

Admittedly at the cost of good Start Collecting style boxes but...GW gonna GW.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So looking at the rules they posted, I'm IMMEDIATELY much less interested in the book.

The rules are useless. Not bad, useless. +1 bravery means literally nothing, even accounting for mindrazor, the +1 attack buff is nowhere near as good as reroll all to hit rolls from HaggNarr.

The battalion is actively detrimental to bring. It's literally a handicap. It requires TWO shrines, which are already bad models, for the sake of allowing you to sacrifice khinerai or melusai to heal itself. BOTH khinerai and Melusai are wound for wound FAR more valuable. If the OPPOSITE was true, that you could sacrifice the SHRINE'S wounds to bring back melusai it might be useful, as is it's worse than bringing nothing at all.

Maybe GW is experimenting with negative point battalions. Take this battalion and you can take 2200pts to a 2000 point game to pay for how terrible it is.

Rules preview article, for those wondering what ERJAK was going on about.

Man, Stormcasts look really good in Anvils of the Heldenhammer colours.

So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Man, Stormcasts look really good in Anvils of the Heldenhammer colours.

Black Legion is always a really striking color scheme (when done correctly). Simplicity and contrast always helps models stand out.

Voss wrote:
So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Man, Stormcasts look really good in Anvils of the Heldenhammer colours.

Black Legion is always a really striking color scheme (when done correctly). Simplicity and contrast always helps models stand out.

I think Har Kuron is new

Misthaven is from Soulbound. - It has not had rules before but thats one of the cool things here - new city abilities.
https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Misth%C3%A5vn

Loving that seems to be losts of new lore here in the books and nice fluffy rules stuff like Auxileries - love for the same rule in Soulblight armies

Nice that they're showing off converted stormcast on the website. GW could benefit from being more open about conversions. I get that they're afraid of 3rd party influence, but still

Voss wrote:
So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.

They may have existed on a map or something in the fluff, but they did not have rules. Also unlike Psychic Awakening these are not 'upgrade' rules; they are additional options that can be taken instead of the normal ones. That's a big reason why I like the AoS campaign books so much. For someone not interested in these additional options the only thing they would need from the book is the updated warscrolls, which will be free in the app.

Voss wrote:
So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.

Not in any capacity I remember. Which is good, they're expanding the lore!
As for how they interact, the same as any other Free City? A Free City is just allegiance abilities and unit selection for CoS book, plugging a new City into it is literally the easiest thing ever since it doesn't invalidate or amend any actual warsrcolls.

Cronch wrote:

Voss wrote:
So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.

Not in any capacity I remember. Which is good, they're expanding the lore!
As for how they interact, the same as any other Free City? A Free City is just allegiance abilities and unit selection for CoS book, plugging a new City into it is literally the easiest thing ever since it doesn't invalidate or amend any actual warsrcolls.

As mentioned above, Misthaven was in the Soulbound rpg but yeah new lore is usually a good thing in AOS.

Shadow & Pain Unboxed on Warhammer Community:

Am I missing something? Is the Lord of Pain missing the back part of the statue head he's standing on or is it intentionally hollow? I don't see a part for it on the sprue

Unless its an odd angle and that's the underside we can see? It would be a pretty big blunder to have left the part off. Very easy to fix (just stuff some greenstuff into the back of it and hide it with some basing), but a bit of a blunder if true.


What I find both sad and amusing is the Lord of Pain's signature ability of negating wounds means that any wound negated doesn't generate depravity. Granted this is fine if its going toe to toe with a stormcast or other multi-wound model and can reflect back on the enemy a wound that doesn't kill; but it won't work as well against any single wound enemies. Still at least it helps keep him around to deal out more damage, but might well mean that statistically he's not as interesting as keepers still.

Not the underside, as you can see that just below.
Really odd indeed..
Early sprue pic maybe and there’s a fixed one

 Overread wrote:
What I find both sad and amusing is the Lord of Pain's signature ability of negating wounds means that any wound negated doesn't generate depravity. Granted this is fine if its going toe to toe with a stormcast or other multi-wound model and can reflect back on the enemy a wound that doesn't kill; but it won't work as well against any single wound enemies. Still at least it helps keep him around to deal out more damage, but might well mean that statistically he's not as interesting as keepers still.

I feel like the critical mistake in design was depravity being based on the number of wounds survived. While it makes sense thematically it is not viable as a game mechanic. They should have made it based off the number of units that suffer wounds without dying in a given phase or turn. So a keeper that survives 8 wounds in a given combat phase generates the same depravity as a hellstrider that survived 1 in that phase.

But anyways, in melee there is a counterbalance to the lord of pain where him negating a wound is also inflicting one. So the depravity may still be generated anyways.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Am I missing something? Is the Lord of Pain missing the back part of the statue head he's standing on or is it intentionally hollow? I don't see a part for it on the sprue

I wouldn't be suprised if GW just cheaped out and intentionally made it hollow to reduce costs by like 0.01 Pounds for every 10 boxes they make.

or the sculptor intended it to be bronze not stone, that would be hollow

Or it is symbolism; while the bodies of slaaneshi mortals may have an outward beauty their spiritual selves are completely hollow.

...probably just a missing piece or something.

So looking at the rules they posted, I'm IMMEDIATELY much less interested in the book.

The rules are useless. Not bad, useless. +1 bravery means literally nothing, even accounting for mindrazor, the +1 attack buff is nowhere near as good as reroll all to hit rolls from HaggNarr.

The battalion is actively detrimental to bring. It's literally a handicap. It requires TWO shrines, which are already bad models, for the sake of allowing you to sacrifice khinerai or melusai to heal itself. BOTH khinerai and Melusai are wound for wound FAR more valuable. If the OPPOSITE was true, that you could sacrifice the SHRINE'S wounds to bring back melusai it might be useful, as is it's worse than bringing nothing at all.

If I recall correctly there are a few other rules for DoK, this one only being one of them.

Although not a fan of the DoK revealed rules I am liking the other ones and imagine I might have to buy myself another Idoneth Shark.

Personally when I see rules previews and people go "meh" I'm somewhat enthusiastic!

See if we were all going "OMG That's so OP" it would mean that GW had clearly messed it up and updated the armies with super-powered auto-take models that would be broken in the game. Ergo its bad for internal batteltome balance and game balance in general.

Middle of the row stats that provide new options, but don't turn into game changers is just what you want from one new model. You want the snake leader to compliment a snake list, not suddenly define the snake list and also make it an auto-take situation for every DoK army.

New article up. All very intriguing and exciting.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/05/broken-realms-morathi-unleashed/

Really wish they'd previewed the Eidolon changes. Net launcher is loooooooong overdue for a change. Not sure on the Void Drum or Harpoon changes though.

Ah. So it's a stealth errata book.

Idoneth hit shortly before Soul Wars and that swapover. It's never gotten a full updated book. DoK did.

Idoneth definitely needed something, we'll see how this shakes out!

Far as I recall Idoneth, DoK and Nurgle all had 2.0 compatible books. They were certainly part of the 2.0 production and design sweep, even if they lacked some of the latter almost default options (eg endless spells). Idoneth even got one of the early faction terrains.

That said they were earlier books and a revision is good for them. Plus I'd wager Idoneth, DoK and a good few others are ripe for a second wave of models at some stage to update them properly with more diverse options and variety.

 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Idoneth, DoK and Nurgle all had 2.0 compatible books. They were certainly part of the 2.0 production and design sweep, even if they lacked some of the latter almost default options (eg endless spells). Idoneth even got one of the early faction terrains.

That said they were earlier books and a revision is good for them. Plus I'd wager Idoneth, DoK and a good few others are ripe for a second wave of models at some stage to update them properly with more diverse options and variety.

DOK already has a confirmed new model (hero snakelady from shadow and pain)