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Whats your personal favorite thing that most people regard as sub optimal? It can be wargear, units, strats, anything.

I personally loved the Obliterator rework, specifically the addition of melee weapons. A lot and I mean A LOT of people thought/think that the added price for them isnt worth it, but the amount of times charging with my Oblits has scored an objevtive from a softened infantry squad tells me otherwise

I like the LR crusader for my SW, a staple in 8th for me and still very good since it's one of the few things that didn't go up in points cost. Lots of shots, it grants a needed ride for several models and it adds redundancy for all the other units that can attract heavy firepower.

BW and Meganobz are my go-to for orks, regardless of their stats, although they became pretty good in 9th. So, considering orks I'd go with KMKs, which are suboptimal compared to Smasha Gunz but I still prefer them having more shots.

Favourite undervalued thing...

I'd say that Killa Kans rank highly here. they're garbage on the battlefield, but I've always liked them.

If you're meaning units which other people say suck but I like to use and think get a bad rep, Warbikers. they kick out a fierce amount of firepower, and with evil suns they move stupendously fast (16" base move, with +1" to advance and shooting after advancing with no penalties). With a wartrike you can get them moving (effectively) 18+3D6" in a turn.
Also the sheer speed of deffkoptas - usually taken for their ability to come in from board edges, but again they can work with a wartrike+ evil suns + ramming speed to get 16" movement, 7" auto-6 advance, then 3D6+1" charge (with mortal wounds as a bonus). That's a max of 42" and an average of 35" movement in one turn.

Wen I did play nids after (nids are sold now) for sure was the Lictor.

For DE beasts lol.

EDIT: We are talking about Current rules right?

The Thudd Gun.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=8qzHiKq9&id=4A1CAE12CD39FC09F33A3D1FC6900AEF5FE37A20&thid=OIP.8qzHiKq92JeJM7MBvJ195gHaEf&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fimages.dakkadakka.com%2fgallery%2f2019%2f1%2f4%2f991375_sm-Compendium%252C%2520Copyright%2520Games%2520Workshop%252C%2520Oldhammer%252C%2520Retro%2520Review%252C%2520Rogue%2520Trader.jpg&exph=364&expw=600&q=Thudd+Gun+template&simid=607988097524370934&ck=491F8CD3045E89B17BEF3C2B1BAD3E8B&selectedIndex=46&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0

Honestly it can vary by the army I'm playing.
For ex;

In my DA force I often include a Whirlwind. Oh sure the WW has gotten better - pretty good in recent years. But mines been fighting since '99/2k. It has not always been awesome. And it's fought against at least as many MEQ forces as anything else, often times knowingly (so not tourney play where I've no say in what I faced) so further cutting into its efficiency a bit.

Drop Pods.
I've been using pods in my SW army since 2e. Good rules/bad rules/funky complex rules/8e + hamstringing of deepstrike rules/often stupidly over-costed.....PINTA to transport - especially my old Armourcast ones.... PITA to build - FW or the plastics.....
People have often wondered & asked "Why do you use those things???"
But they're part of my SW forces identity. I will use them whatever their rules.

Squads with both a special & a heavy weapon. Often one dedicated to AT, the other anti-troop.
Alot of people go on & on about how this wastes pts in assorted ways. But it works for me, so I'll keep on fielding this pattern of squads.

Swooping Hawks in my Eldar.
They've never been especially effective. And I've never (since 2e!) met anyone who really respects the unit. But I've always loved the models so I often include a squad when I play Eldar.

The Dire Avengers: they weren't really effective, but because they were the less expensive aspect warriors, because three of them were enough to constitute a squad and because for every aspect warrior squad I could put an exarch in my army, I always used a lot of them.

For my Dark Angels? until recently I would have said my DW apothecary which I played throughout 8th(the recent index has however turned them into more a case of "its really THAT GOOD???!!!""}

So Ill have to plump for my beloved Kraken Gargoyles, yes we lost fall back and shoot this edition but they are cheap for what they can achieve swamping objectives early in large numbers, or especially as a support melee unit as very few opponents expect the -1 to hit rule. I have used them since the old and terrible metal models and they will continue to feature in my armies in 9th.

For Drukhari, Scourges.

They are really poor at their role in-game, but the sculpts are absolutely lovely.

Tau Farsight Breachers. Yelling BANZAI as you charge your opponent dropping out of devilfish never gets old.

Fun.

Most people playing 40k don't seem to value this at all.

Plague Marines. They never failed me besides people on the internet telling me for years they suck. My opponents however always show a sad face when I bring PM because they usually get stuff done, are durable and can be equipped for anything.

Btw. Plaguebearers are the opposite. Internet tells me how strong these are but despite putting every possible buff on them I've never seen them perform as well as my Plague Marines

Techmarines.

I have no idea if they're good now, but I've always thought Techmarines were cool as gak with the mechanical arms. I got the new primaris model with no intention of ever playing it just cause the model kicks ass.

Tactical Squads

7th Edition.

 LordofHats wrote:
Techmarines.

I have no idea if they're good now, but I've always thought Techmarines were cool as gak with the mechanical arms. I got the new primaris model with no intention of ever playing it just cause the model kicks ass.

In the second edition they were very good: a techmarine with jump-pack and power-axe was a very cheap and effective assault unit and because they were cheap, when they were killed the opponent player didn't score any points.

Centurions... either devastator squad with lascannons and missle launchers for the awesome range, or assault with meltaguns and hurricane bolters for the close in "look what just came out from behind the ruins, boys" surprises in midfield.

Definitely ask any competitive player and they will laugh at me.

I collect IG and for some reason I can not pin down really like grenade launchers, missile launchers, autocannons and flamers. Even though I know that mathematically there are mostly better options.

Edit: oh and multilasers. I love multilasers. Really a pity that heavy weapons squads can't take them.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Whats your personal favorite thing that most people regard as sub optimal?

Night Lords.

Dire Avengers.

Cheers,

CB

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Fun.

Most people playing 40k don't seem to value this at all.

Look at the Thudd Gun template and say that again! A 5 circle template that winds itself like a snake on a D12 roll for each circle's branch direction? It's wild.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Tactical Squads

this would be my tradtional answer but with their second wound they're universally aknowledged as "damn good" now.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Tactical Squads

this would be my tradtional answer but with their second wound they're universally aknowledged as "damn good" now.

It depends on what you mean by "undervalued". I agree Tac Squads are very good on the tabletop right now, but no way am I buying a new kit of them to paint/replace etc. one I already have. This is something I do with other stuff from time to time. But it aint happening with Tac Squads. Or old marines (outside of the one-off specials). I'm pretty sure they only got the 2W because sales of all the old kits stopped dead when people decided they were being squatted. This doesn't change my mind.

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Tactical Squads

this would be my tradtional answer but with their second wound they're universally aknowledged as "damn good" now.

It depends on what you mean by "undervalued". I agree Tac Squads are very good on the tabletop right now, but no way am I buying a new kit of them to paint/replace etc. one I already have. This is something I do with other stuff from time to time. But it aint happening with Tac Squads. Or old marines (outside of the one-off specials). I'm pretty sure they only got the 2W because sales of all the old kits stopped dead when people decided they were being squatted. This doesn't change my mind.

The increase in wounds for classic marines is a side benefit from bringing the Legions up to snuff with primaris. That's my view. They couldn't give csm infantry the extra wound without giving it to loyalist classic marines without getting complaints from loyalists.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Tactical Squads

this would be my tradtional answer but with their second wound they're universally aknowledged as "damn good" now.

It depends on what you mean by "undervalued". I agree Tac Squads are very good on the tabletop right now, but no way am I buying a new kit of them to paint/replace etc. one I already have. This is something I do with other stuff from time to time. But it aint happening with Tac Squads. Or old marines (outside of the one-off specials). I'm pretty sure they only got the 2W because sales of all the old kits stopped dead when people decided they were being squatted. This doesn't change my mind.

The increase in wounds for classic marines is a side benefit from bringing the Legions up to snuff with primaris. That's my view. They couldn't give csm infantry the extra wound without giving it to loyalist classic marines without getting complaints from loyalists.

Then let them complain. It's not like we didn't complain for decades about being Xeno target practice.

Biovores.

Theory says ignore the spore mines. I've never had any opponent do other than dance around them, which fouls up movement something rotten

stroller wrote:
Biovores.

Theory says ignore the spore mines. I've never had any opponent do other than dance around them, which fouls up movement something rotten

I wouldn't say biovores are undervalued I think everyone knows exactly how valuable those mortal wound throwing pain in the asses are. haha.


Tyranid Warriors however. People don't get how good their platform is. They provide synapse, they each have 3 wounds. They can be taken in 9 model units with biocanons. Deathspitters are a legit great gun. And Boneswords make them a huge threat in melee. They are the swiss army infantry. In a Jormungandr list they get cover and can be burrowed into the mid field/front line by some raveners who are almost as good.

Tyranid Warriors are the bread and butter of my tyranid lists.

Until Blood of Baal, i would have agreed with Tyranid Warriors. Since that book came out (and specifically that lovey "enhanced resistance" physiology) warriors have been all rounders that reliably hold objectives, put out decent if shorthish ranged firepower and can be a good threat in melee. Ive been running at units of at least 6 since then and they do good work.

If our next codex manages to make primes a more attractive option, then i can see warriors being one of the best troops in the game for their flexibilty.

Same thing with Haruspex, useless before BoB, great now!!

My second choice for Nid unit would be Screamer Killers. Not great at Tank killing, but really good at splatting multi wound infantry in a marine dominated environment. Just dont expect the bioplasmic scream to actually kill anything (frankly, im annoyed it was made blast as i was looking forward to vomiting on people in combat :( ).

I am really hopeful that they make a new individual prime kit. Primes could use a really dynamic model with a little bit more customization.

Since Shrikes didn't end up in legends yet, my HOPE (I have basically zero faith this will actually happen but it's still my hope) is that they will release a shrike kit or a sprue to make warriors into shrikes.

Scrap the red terror.

Turn the prime into a singular HQ that has options for wings or a burrowing tail lower body and allow it to support shrikes, warriors and raveners as a adaptable front line HQ.In a Jorm list a burrowing Prime with 2 3 man ravener units can bring 3+ units of warriors into the mid field or hitting objectives or whatever. It would be a great boon for the subfaction and nids in general.

Makari.

Nice unit of deathwing knights you've got there, it would be a shame if a single grot could keep them busy for three turns, wouldn't it?